kipfizh

AI Experiment - what would happen if?

4,343 posts in this topic

Originally posted by kipfizh:

After seeing Newcastle go down with 43pts last season, amack1n asked me to investigate the highest points tally a team has gone down with, and a lowest team total to win the league.

So first, here are the points tallies of all champions from 2006-07 to last season:

85, 78, 74, 79, 75, 81, 65, 86, 74, 69, 73, 75, 71, 77, 73, 82, 71, 83, 83, 73, 78, 71, 82, 73, 81, 76, 88, 73, 67, 73, 71, 79, 68, 72, 71, 69

Chelsea managed to win the league despite accumulating only 65 points in 2012/13, a bizarre season in the relegation stakes too, as we'll see shortly.

Incidentally, Arsenal's total of 88 points in 2032/33 is the highest tally since the experiment began.

Points tally of the team finishing 18th and getting relegated:

35, 35, 40, 38, 40, 35, 43, 41, 36, 38, 39, 31, 43, 38, 41, 36, 42, 38, 40, 37, 38, 28, 36, 43, 31, 34, 39, 42, 43, 44, 38, 42, 40, 42, 38, 43

Newcastle certainly went down with 43 points last season, a feat matched by Aston Villa in 2034/35, Scunthorpe in 2029/30, and Fulham in 2018/19.

In 2012/13, when Chelsea won the league with such a paltry total, three sides got relegated with 43 points - Sheff Utd, Watfor and Man City. City will consider themselves exceptionally unlucky to finish bottom with a total that would normally keep them up.

But the highest relegation tally was achieved by Chesterfield, who in 2035/36 went down with 44 points.

Lincoln's tally of 13 points in 2025/26 is easily the worst, being the only sub-20 point tally since the experiment began.

Thanks for that Kipfizh. Obviously, as time goes on you'll get more and more strange records and point totals. But can anyone here imagine anyone winning the Premier League with less than 80 points? Cos I certianly can't.

I am surprised at amount of teams to go down with 40+ points. In the 15 or so seasons of which we had a 20 league Premiership, only 1 team has gone down with 40 points. Whilst in the next 35, at least 18 teams have gone down with that amount (1 team in every other season).

On a final note, in the last 9 seasons, at least 7 teams have gone down with 40+ points. At the other end of the table, in those 9 seasons, only 1 team have beaten the 75 points mark.

Surely a sign that the Premiership is closer than ever before. Also goes some way the explain how the Bandits have shot up/dropped down the league with a run of 5 good/bad games

Thanks again Kip

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Hallett seems very heavy, what is his professionalism like?

Could this be the reason he was available on a free?

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World Cup Report Card – World Beaters

Carlo Lupo

(4 games, 7.25 average rating)

Lupo was superb in the air, marshalling the Italian defence that did not concede a goal in their four match campaign. They escaped from the hardest group before falling on a penalty shoot out to Holland. He played well, but was part of an overall excellent defence rather than the sole reason for the four shutouts.

Grade: B-

Hector Ceballos

(4 games, 7.50 average rating)

Ceballos picked up a knock in the first group game, causing him to miss one game before returning for matchday three. He was decent in the group stage, but really came alive in the knockout stages, scoring two 8s for his superb marshalling of the Argentine defence in the 1-0 win over Colombia, and the 0-0 draw against holders Portugal, which they eventually lost on penalties.

Grade: B

Max Trehkopf

(3 games, 6.67 average rating)

Goalkeeper Trehkopf missed the opening defeat against Poland through suspension, but returned to pick up two easy clean sheets against Australia and the Ivory Coast. But the first knockout game was a shocker, as the Germans were hammered 3-0 by Scotland, with him helpless to prevent the defeat. He will not remember this World Cup fondly.

Grade: D

Ruben Camara

(0 games)

Ruben Camara picked up a calf injury at the end of the season, and missed Spain’s run to the semi-finals.

Grade: No grade

World Cup Report Card – Former Greats

Gerardo Robles

(3 games, 7.00 average rating, 1 goal)

The legendary striker was probably playing in his last tournament, at the age of 31, and Mexico were unfortunate to be drawn in such a tough group. The writing was on the wall with a 1-0 defeat to the weakest team, Paraguay, and after that even credible draws against Italy and the Czech Republic weren’t enough. Robles scored their only goal, in the 1-1 draw against the Czechs, but he was absent against Paraguay when a win was essential, and was silenced by Lupo in the Italy match, his 100th cap for his country.

Grade: C

Ryan Morley

(0 games)

Is this the end for Ryan Morley? On the bench for every game, he was the last choice striker in the squad and despite his astonishing international record – 81 goals in 78 games – he was never brought on to the field.

Grade: No grade

World Cup Report Card – Ones to watch

Patrick Schmidt

(4 games, 6.75 average rating, 1 assist)

The right sided German had an average tournament, playing solidly throughout the group stage and claiming one assist, but he won’t remember his first captaincy effort, a shocking 3-0 defeat to Scotland in the second round. Didn’t do enough.

Grade: D+

Pereira

(7 games, 7.57 average rating, 1 assist)

The Portuguese defensive midfielder had an excellent tournament, starting slowly but then picking up three man of the match awards in a campaign that ended with the holders finishing fourth. He played a big part in getting them that far, and was rightly named in the World Cup Dream Team.

Grade: A-

Bjorn Strand

(3 games, 6.67 average rating)

The 19 year old Norwegian striker has plenty of time on his side, so came into the World Cup without many expectations on his head, but still started all three games that his country played. He didn’t make any sort of impact, but Norway can consider themselves unlucky to go out despite gaining six points.

Grade: D

Ante Bacic

(3 games, 7.33 average rating)

The 20 year old Croatian central defender had a decent tournament, despite playing in a very weak side, but went home after the group stage. He put in a particularly admirable performance in the crucial 2-1 defeat to Argentina.

Grade: B-

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Another superb update Kip. A bittersweet moment for me seeing Norwich knock the Bandits out of the Cup, like seeing your wife and your mistress fighting in the street. Horrible sure, but arousing none the less.

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KUTGW Mr Kip.

How big is the save file? Might be interesting if we coudl get our hands on the DB and save if any of us could turn Man Utd around into world beaters again icon_biggrin.gif

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Being a Belgian myself, I can't help but be delighted at our world cup win. It kinda helps to swallow the bitter pill that is real life Belgium...

I'll be celebrating for a bit now icon_cool.gif

Can't wait to hear about next season from the bandits

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Originally posted by CanaryLawn:

Another superb update Kip. A bittersweet moment for me seeing Norwich knock the Bandits out of the Cup, like seeing your wife and your mistress fighting in the street. Horrible sure, but arousing none the less.

fantastic analogy

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Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie:

KUTGW Mr Kip.

How big is the save file? Might be interesting if we coudl get our hands on the DB and save if any of us could turn Man Utd around into world beaters again icon_biggrin.gif

Kip will release the DB once the experiment is over. He doesn't want anyone else spoiling his story with posts by people saying they've got so far and 'this' has happened etc.

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Originally posted by magicmastermind124:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie:

KUTGW Mr Kip.

How big is the save file? Might be interesting if we coudl get our hands on the DB and save if any of us could turn Man Utd around into world beaters again icon_biggrin.gif

Kip will release the DB once the experiment is over. He doesn't want anyone else spoiling his story with posts by people saying they've got so far and 'this' has happened etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe for another experiment, he could release a database to another person and see how each game varies?

Just an idea for future experiments, as I'm sure people will be inspired from this experiment to do so.

Great work and dedication Kip.

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Just spent more than 5 hours reading this thread from page 1. Outstanding work Kip. You have deprived me of sleep, but it really was a very enjoyable read. Will be checking back regularly for updates. Thanks for all your hard work.

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**** now i have to read 30 pages ...it really looks intersing!!!!!

kip you must get payed for this!!!!

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Thanks for the WC update Kip. I'm really shocked that Morley didn't even played for a minute. Tough luck for Robles although he should have shined for the very last time in world stage, assuming he'll start to decline this or the next year. Lupo is steady as expected. I'm pretty much excited about the future's stars playing in WC, 2 of'em especially having markable ratings for their national team.

Eagerly anticipating the next update. And for predictions I personally don't see Clayton adding much to what he has done next season. Maybe one or two transfers and a safe mid-table finish I guess, although we deserve a lot more. KUTGW.

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Can we get a short report on Belgium's world cup winning squad.

Did they have a couple of top players carrying them or a team of hard workers?

Did they sneak through with average ratings or did they rise to the occasion and put in the performances of their lives?

Who was their best player, and who played best for them?

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Originally posted by nick...:

Can we get a short report on Belgium's world cup winning squad.

Did they have a couple of top players carrying them or a team of hard workers?

Did they sneak through with average ratings or did they rise to the occasion and put in the performances of their lives?

Who was their best player, and who played best for them?

I would like this too.

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i cant understand how yous can all get so far into the game. i only play on the xbox and as soon as i get to 2011/2012 it goes really slow, then eventually crashes

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Originally posted by mackemmick:

i cant understand how yous can all get so far into the game. i only play on the xbox and as soon as i get to 2011/2012 it goes really slow, then eventually crashes

Ah, the perennial hare & the tortoise scenario. Herewith lies the disadvantages of playing on a game based platform designed for short, intense bursts of immense graphical gameplay.

Rather than the slow and steady, more statistically and involving challenge that FM and similar games provide.

Hare and tortoise, I'm to old now and I've lost my 'hare', so a shell like existence it must be.

Wz

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Originally posted by The Zogster:

The most points you can go dowbn on is 57 - Only if all 20 teams wn 19 games each.

Not true actually.

If the top 18 teams win their home games with each other they'll have 54 points from those 34 games.

But now suppose everyone beats teams 19 and 20 home and away. Those two teams beat each other to end the season with three points each.

Every team from 1st to 18th would have 21 wins and 17 defeats, and therefore someone would go down with 63 points.

The two bottom sides would have a W1 L37 record.

So the most points you can get relegated with, in the Premiership, is 63.

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Imagine that year!

Jeff on Soccer Saturday would have a heart attack trying to keep up with the "live table" icon_smile.gif

Plus being the team that went down with 63 would just suck SO much.

VB

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Something like that actually happened to me (in much smaller scale of course) when I managed not to qualify from CL group stage with 12 points. All top-3 teams won their home games plus the away game against the last team. I would've survived if I didn't lose at Stamford Bridge in the final round by more than one goal. I lost 3-1. Trying to describe my feelings at the time would probably get me banned from these forums so I leave it to your imagination icon_wink.gif

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Originally posted by amack1n:

Surely a sign that the Premiership is closer than ever before. Also goes some way the explain how the Bandits have shot up/dropped down the league with a run of 5 good/bad games

Thanks again Kip

No problem. You're absolutely right, the league does seem to be closer than ever.

At the start of the game, the vast majority of top players are at top clubs. Then, with the ex-Bandits moving to those same clubs, they were able to maintain their dominance (Chelsea won six titles on the bounce around 25 years ago).

But since those starlets dropped away, their clubs began to fade. In the case of Man Utd, it'd actually already happened, but now I think we're in a constant state of flux:

Whenever a team overachieves, their reputation is enough to mean that they can now break into the top echelons of the Premiership. On the flip side, they have often overchieved because others have underachieved, and those teams will be losing reputation.

However, reputation change isn't enormously quick, so for a big club to fade away takes a few seasons of underachievement, and to break into the top few on a permanent basis (as West Ham have done), you need a few years of overchievement.

So I think a lot of teams are bouncing up and down (as, say, Everton have done in real life over the past six years). But you still get a feel for who the big teams are - they rarely fail for three seasons in a row.

But you're absolutely right that the league overall is closer. If the champions have a bad season they no longer finish fourth - they finish 12th. If relegation candidates do well, they no longer finish 12th, they finish sixth. The gap between relegation and promotion has closed.

What will it take for that gap to open again? I guess if the same team overachieves for a few seasons, and gets their reputation way beyond that of the rest of the league, they might start hitting record points again. It should be noted that English sides have been very poor in Europe recently - this does not help the top clubs pull away as it has a massive effect on reputation.

Something to follow, I think.

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Originally posted by mmitch19:

Hallett seems very heavy, what is his professionalism like?

Could this be the reason he was available on a free?

He's a big powerful centre back, tipped as the next Sol Campbell. His weight seems about right for that.

Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie:

KUTGW Mr Kip.

How big is the save file? Might be interesting if we coudl get our hands on the DB and save if any of us could turn Man Utd around into world beaters again icon_biggrin.gif

Just over 200Mb at the last count, thanks to no managerial history - holiday games are generally smaller.

Originally posted by nick...:

Can we get a short report on Belgium's world cup winning squad.

Did they have a couple of top players carrying them or a team of hard workers?

Did they sneak through with average ratings or did they rise to the occasion and put in the performances of their lives?

Who was their best player, and who played best for them?

Belgium won the World Cup in a similar way to how Greece won the real European Championships - by just doing enough each game.

The sneaked through the group, won a couple of penalty shoot outs against superior opposition, and then sneaked a late goal against the run of play in the final.

That isn't to say they didn't deserve it - they were far more than the sum of their parts for the duration of the tournament and knocked out some excellent teams. But they did it without stars and their success is unlikely to be repeated. They haven't begun the European Championship qualifying campaign very well.

Very rarely in the World Cup did any of their players get an 8.

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Season 2042-43

Bandits report - Transfers

Transfers In

Transfers Out

Summer

The summer started well for Ben Clayton – in the end of season summary, he was awarded the signing of the season accolade, for picking up the excellent Tom Finley.

In a contrast to last season, the Bandits fans were not so much desperate for new signings, but anxious to avoid the loss of some of the exciting prospects added to the squad in the previous year.

But for fans hoping for no major exits, there was early disappointment, as the first choice keeper for a decade, and club best player for many years, James Wade, asked to leave, wanting to go to a bigger club. It seems his CA and reputation had risen quicker than the Bandits, and he was soon on his way to Man City. Promising striker Jason Colbeck also left, moving to Brentford after it had become clear that he was a long way down the pecking order.

Paul Todd, the first choice left back, followed him out of the door, moving to Reading for 3.9m, and backup left winger Tyrone Small was the next to go, leaving the position woefully short of options. Rob O’Neill, once a vital striker, also left.

Clayton was left with a requirement to fill in the gaps he’d created in goal, at left back and left wing, while striking options was needed with the backup decimated. Could he buy well after being so willing to sell?

The first sign of good news came with the 5.5m capture of Fabien Vincent, a 24 year old central midfielder signed from Liverpool. His CA of 156 is decent enough, but it is his enormous potential of 181 that really catches the eye. Another signing from Liverpool was Bill Beckham, a former England Under 21 goalkeeper, not that much behind James Wade himself. Perhaps the gaps were to be filled after all.

Clayton then filled out the reserves, bringing in a couple of strikers, but neither of these signings would end up playing much throughout the season, and then he snapped up the man the fans were after – Craig Williamson, a superb prospect on the left wing. Nothing more happened until his final action of a busy summer, when he audaciously signed the excellent Scott McDermott from relegated Newcastle, for 10.25m. The highly rated striker, with a CA of 159, would go on to partner Finley for much of the season.

As the season began, the fans had mixed feelings. On the one hand, Clayton had avoided selling the hot prospects – Morgan and Reeve both remained with PA over 170, and Luke Hallett, the 184 PA starlet, hadn’t been sold. But the left side of the team was worrying short of players, with no left back and not a lot of cover at left wing – would that be a weakness that the opposition would look to exploit? Also, with the ever excellent James Wade departed, would any backup goalkeeper measure up to the former fan favourite?

January

January arrived, and Clayton made two more sales of note. Peter Challinor, the hot prospect in defensive midfield, went up north to Newcastle for 4.9m. He had only played once all season, and with defensive midfielders always struggling to settle into the Bandits’ formation, this sale was one that no-one complained about.

More concerning was the other sale to the Geordies – first choice right winger Wieslaw Maciejewski, who had been on the teamsheet all season. Clayton would have to replace him well.

But first, another goalkeeping Wade was signed, this time Chris Wade, arriving from Chelsea to be a backup. After him came Phil Dixon, a central defender and midfielder, not one to solve their continuing wide problems.

And with the final signing being Thibault Pichet, a excellent young centre back from Chelsea, the fans found themselves pleased with each signing but disappointed that the obvious gaps hadn’t been filled. The Bandits had no specialist left back, not much at right back either, and too much experience had been lost.

Would Clayton be vindicated in his decisions?

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Bandits report - squad

Top 20 in Squad (sorted by CA)

Name, Pos, Age, CA-PA

Finley, ST, 22, 167-169 (+5)

Morgan, DC, 30, 164-173 (+2)

Reeve, AM R, 24, 160-171 (+4)

McDermott, ST, 25, 159-159 – new signing

Gibbs, M LC, 27, 158-158 (0)

Ivic, AM L, 30, 157-161 (0)

Vincent, MC, 24, 156-181 – new signing

Nunez, DC, 31, 156-158 (-1)

Spicer, ST, 27, 156-156 (0)

Thompson, D/M C, 25, 154-169 (+4)

Watts, DR, 22, 152-165 (+2)

Beckham, GK, 23, 152-161 – new signing

Williamson, AM L, 22, 151-165 – new signing

Pichet, DC, 22, 151-161 – new signing

Walker, MC, 26, 151-157 (+2)

Paris, GK, 26, 151-156 (+2)

Brand, ST, 21, 150-165 – new signing

Dixon, D/M C, 23, 149-157 – new signing

Watt, MC, 23, 149-156 – new entry in top 20

Pearson, ST, 21, 148-168 – new signing

Players in last season’s top 20 who have left the club:

Wade, GK, 30, 164-164

Todd, D RLC, 25, 156-156

Mariotti, D/WB R, 24, 154-163 – loan ended

T O’Neill, GK, 24, 151-157

Challinor, DM, 23, 149-164

Walsh, DC, 22, 149-159

Players in last season’s top 20 who have dropped out of the top 20:

White, AM R, 29, 148-152 (-4)

Small, DC, DM, 26, 147-167 (-2)

Grosjean, MC, 31, 147-158 (-9)

A very interesting season – Finley is now the best player the club have ever had, beating Wade’s record of 164, which Morgan also leveled this year. Encouragingly, those at the top are still improving, and there are some excellent PAs further down the list.

While the lowest CA in the top 20 is now 158, the lowest PA is actually 156, which until recently would’ve made a player the best in the squad. So there’s a huge amount of potential there.

The promising Luke Hallett is yet to break into the top 20, and the 20 year old is now rated at 139-184, a rise of twelve points from last season. He is still one to watch.

CA of X or above:

190 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

180 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

170 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

160 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 3, 2, 3, 3

150 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 6, 10, 13, 15, 13, 11, 15, 17

140 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 5, 6, 10, 9, 9, 14, 19, 27, 25, 22, 27, 27

130 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 5, 8, 10, 13, 10, 11, 22, 28, 32, 31, 28, 33, 34

120 : 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 2, 2, 6, 6, 7, 5, 5, 12, 13, 14, 18, 16, 15, 29, 37, 38, 36, 30, 34, 36

110 : 0, 2, 2, 3, 2, 6, 7, 6, 6, 7, 8, 7, 7, 9, 10, 10, 12, 12, 13, 13, 16, 23, 25, 23, 24, 21, 22, 39, 42, 39, 36, 30, 36, 36

100 : 2, 4, 7, 7, 6, 13, 13, 12, 13, 13, 16, 12, 12, 12, 16, 16, 19, 21, 20, 18, 24, 31, 32, 28, 30, 29, 27, 43, 45, 40, 36, 32, 39, 40

90 : 7, 11, 10, 9, 10, 16, 17, 15, 15, 20, 22, 16, 15, 17, 20, 22, 29, 33, 26, 24, 29, 32, 36, 31, 33, 31, 28, 46, 51, 44, 39, 34, 42, 44

80 : 13, 14, 13, 13, 16, 21, 21, 18, 16, 21, 26, 20, 22, 21, 26, 26, 34, 36, 32, 31, 33, 40, 40, 33, 34, 33, 30, 50, 53, 47, 43, 39, 46, 47

70 : 19, 22, 21, 20, 22, 27, 25, 19, 23, 25, 30, 23, 25, 27, 28, 30, 35, 39, 38, 35, 37, 42, 43, 36, 37, 36, 33, 55, 57, 50, 48, 46, 52, 48

60 : 26, 26, 25, 23, 24, 32, 30, 24, 26, 30, 32, 26, 28, 28, 38, 33, 40, 44, 41, 37, 40, 45, 45, 38, 43, 37, 38, 60, 60, 53, 52, 49, 54, 51

50 : 30, 31, 31, 26, 26, 35, 33, 28, 32, 34, 35, 30, 32, 34, 42, 37, 43, 46, 43, 42, 44, 49, 49, 45, 47, 43, 42, 62, 61, 56, 54, 50, 54, 52

The squad appears to be better off after a season of chopping and changing from the manager. That is in itself an impressive feat – over the past two seasons Clayton has brought in a bunch of young players with very high PA in an attempt to drive the club forward. It will be interesting to see where they go from here.

He’s cleaned out some old players, and some legends, and replaced them with the makings of a new team. Does this mean that the Bandits are ready to push their way into the top half, and maybe beyond? Or is the balance all wrong?

Top players by reputation

Time for a new section – players regularly want to leave clubs, a measure of the club status, players status and their loyalty, but we can measure those stats. Later in the report comes the club reputation (last season it stood at 6531), so what are the reputations of the top ten players in the club (those they don’t want to lose)? And will a player with average loyalty want to leave when his reputation exceeds that of the club?

Reputation (CA in brackets):

Finley (167) – 6906

Morgan (164) – 6724

McDermott (159) – 6320

Gibbs (158) – 6241

Ivic (157) – 6139

Nunez (156) – 6012

Beckham (152) – 5776

Spicer (156) – 5682

White (148) – 5462

Grosjean (147) – 5279

It pretty much follows CA, except that young Karl Reeve, with a CA of 160, only has a reputation of 4297, comfortably off the bottom of this list.

Finley and Morgan both have a reputation higher than the Bandits did at the end of last season. Does this mean they’ll want to leave? Or have the Bandits pushed their own reputation up with some decent displays?

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Nice new section kip..

Might see whether players leaving is mainly to do with reputation or whether it is a balance of that, CA and PA.

I'm reckoning 6th for the Bandits this year.

KUTGW mate icon14.gif

Top Stuff

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Injuries permitting I think Champions League is a possibilty due to the EPL's above discussed closeness in recent years.

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Call me insane but i'm pleased about the sale of Wade.

He's getting on a bit and we need to know if his replacement can hack it or needs replacing himself before this team hits its peak.

We're not there yet, but this has the makings of a very good side.

In a couple of years, who knows...

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A quick suggestion. As the "CA ability of X or above" section is getting a bit difficult to read, could you take off the seasons before the Premiership? Also, the CA of 50,60,70, 80 and 90 sections seem a bit pointless. How about changing it to a 'CA of less than 100' section? I know that I don't read the lower ends of the CA chart and not sure if anyone else does

Originally posted by kipfizh:

At the start of the game, the vast majority of top players are at top clubs. Then, with the ex-Bandits moving to those same clubs, they were able to maintain their dominance (Chelsea won six titles on the bounce around 25 years ago).

But since those starlets dropped away, their clubs began to fade. In the case of Man Utd, it'd actually already happened, but now I think we're in a constant state of flux:

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Obviously, at the start of the game, the big 4 signed most of the starlets and kept them for the best part of 20 years. Then, when they retired, those teams had massive gaps in their squad.

This is especially evident with Man Utd and Chelsea. The majority of their first team had suddenly retired within a few seasons, leaving Man Utd and Chelsea needing to replace them quickly. Man Utd obviously sisn't replace the players quick enough or with good enough players and are now suffering.

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Nice tantalising update as always Kip. icon14.gif

I reckon a finish of around 8th for the Bandits this season. Was wierd that the Bandits refused to sign many wide men and bought almost all players who play down the middle.

Also agree with amack1n, CA's below 90 are not really necessary now, but perhaps you could state total squad size instead of doing the lower CA numbers?!

KUTGW icon14.gif

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Originally posted by amack1n:

A quick suggestion. As the "CA ability of X or above" section is getting a bit difficult to read, could you take off the seasons before the Premiership? Also, the CA of 50,60,70, 80 and 90 sections seem a bit pointless. How about changing it to a 'CA of less than 100' section? I know that I don't read the lower ends of the CA chart and not sure if anyone else does

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kipfizh:

At the start of the game, the vast majority of top players are at top clubs. Then, with the ex-Bandits moving to those same clubs, they were able to maintain their dominance (Chelsea won six titles on the bounce around 25 years ago).

But since those starlets dropped away, their clubs began to fade. In the case of Man Utd, it'd actually already happened, but now I think we're in a constant state of flux:

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Obviously, at the start of the game, the big 4 signed most of the starlets and kept them for the best part of 20 years. Then, when they retired, those teams had massive gaps in their squad.

This is especially evident with Man Utd and Chelsea. The majority of their first team had suddenly retired within a few seasons, leaving Man Utd and Chelsea needing to replace them quickly. Man Utd obviously sisn't replace the players quick enough or with good enough players and are now suffering. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want this experiment to end, it feels like watching my second team and it's upsetting when things go badly and a delight when the Bandits have success, however, this part of the experiment would be interesting to see with the same criteria in FM08, as SI claim they have improved the squad management by AI managers.

Surely any manager worth his salt would not have let Chelsea or Man Utd get into the position of knowing their stars were likely to retire without adequate replacements lined up.

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I'm thinking 12th - although the players are better, the team is horribly unbalanced and would require something like a 3-4-3 to truly employ the players' talents fully, but this is a very risky formation.

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Originally posted by amack1n:

A quick suggestion. As the "CA ability of X or above" section is getting a bit difficult to read, could you take off the seasons before the Premiership? Also, the CA of 50,60,70, 80 and 90 sections seem a bit pointless. How about changing it to a 'CA of less than 100' section? I know that I don't read the lower ends of the CA chart and not sure if anyone else does

Couldn't agree more - I'll sort that for next season - thanks icon_smile.gif

As for everyone's predictions, I can tell you're true fans - so much optimism icon_wink.gif

Update should come later.

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I agree with Crafty Bison, unless The Bandits plan on changing formation I think they'll struggle due to lack of quality wide players.

I really hope they push for a sneaky European place but I can't see it happening this season. A new manager is still needed imo.

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kipfizh, I hope that you're not even downloading the FM2008 demo. We wouldn't want you taking any time away from our entertainment.

We have needs, you know. icon_wink.gif

I'm already starting to feel sad that you might not continue with the experiment in FM2007.

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Originally posted by rubybell_99:

kipfizh, I hope that you're not even downloading the FM2008 demo. We wouldn't want you taking any time away from our entertainment.

We have needs, you know. icon_wink.gif

I'm already starting to feel sad that you might not continue with the experiment in FM2007.

Don't panic - I never download the demo because I hate having to stop a game I'm beginning to get into. I always play by building for the future with youth and you can't do that in a restricted demo.

And I also tend to wait for the first patch to come out before I buy. Nothing against the game, but when you start a game and a patch comes up, do you ever find yourself wishing you'd had the patience to wait for it in the first place?

Maybe I'll just have to speed these updates up icon_wink.gif

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Originally posted by kipfizh:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rubybell_99:

kipfizh, I hope that you're not even downloading the FM2008 demo. We wouldn't want you taking any time away from our entertainment.

We have needs, you know. icon_wink.gif

I'm already starting to feel sad that you might not continue with the experiment in FM2007.

Don't panic - I never download the demo because I hate having to stop a game I'm beginning to get into. I always play by building for the future with youth and you can't do that in a restricted demo.

And I also tend to wait for the first patch to come out before I buy. Nothing against the game, but when you start a game and a patch comes up, do you ever find yourself wishing you'd had the patience to wait for it in the first place?

Maybe I'll just have to speed these updates up icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooohhhh YES!!!

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wow!

just read this tread from start to finis (from Jan07 to now!! wow!)...i feel like ive been right alongside the bandits to their rise to the top.

Amazing stuff zipfish, & great dedication to keep the game going!. i can never get past 2010 without getting bored shi tless & wanting to restart.

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Originally posted by kipfizh:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rubybell_99:

kipfizh, I hope that you're not even downloading the FM2008 demo. We wouldn't want you taking any time away from our entertainment.

We have needs, you know. icon_wink.gif

I'm already starting to feel sad that you might not continue with the experiment in FM2007.

Don't panic - I never download the demo because I hate having to stop a game I'm beginning to get into. I always play by building for the future with youth and you can't do that in a restricted demo.

And I also tend to wait for the first patch to come out before I buy. Nothing against the game, but when you start a game and a patch comes up, do you ever find yourself wishing you'd had the patience to wait for it in the first place?

Maybe I'll just have to speed these updates up icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

icon_biggrin.gif

I have been an avid follower of the Bandits, I certainly would have thought that if the new signins gel quickly, and Ben Clayton gets the team going, that a top 10 finish would be the least they could get.

Then again, seeing as Ben Clayton isn't the world's greatest manager I think 13th would be an O.K finish.

KUTVVVVGW KIP!

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Bandits report – Season summary

2006-07, English Conference South - 1st, FA Trophy - Winners

2007-08, English National Conference - 7th, FA Trophy - Final

2008-09, English National Conference – 7th

2009-10, English National Conference – 9th

2010-11, English National Conference – 6th

2011-12, English National Conference – 18th

2012-13, English National Conference – 5th

2013-14, English National Conference – 1st

2014-15, English League Two – 21st

2015-16, English League Two – 21st

2016-17, English League Two – 6th

2017-18, English League Two – 6th

2018-19, English League Two – 7th

2019-20, English League Two – 6th, Johnstone’s Paint Trophy – South Semi Final

2020-21, English League Two – 10th

2021-22, English League Two – 1st, Johnstone’s Paint Trophy - Final

2022-23, English League One – 13th, Johnstone’s Paint Trophy – South Semi Final

2023-24, English League One – 11th, League Cup – Final

2024-25, English League One – 11th, League Cup – Semi-Final

2025-26, English League One – 18th

2026-27, English League One – 17th

2027-28, English League One – 14th

2028-29, English League One – 20th

2029-30, English League One – 1st

2030-31, English Championship – 14th

2031-32, English Championship – 10th, League Cup – Final

2032-33, English Championship – 12th

2033-34, English Championship – 8th

2034-35, English Championship – 21st

2035-36, English Championship – 2nd

2036-37, English Premiership – 17th

2037-38, English Premiership – 12th

2038-39

English Premiership: (Pos 15), P 38, W 13, D 7, L 18, F 45, A 61, GD -16, Pts 46

(Media Prediction: 19th)

FA Cup: Semi-Final

League Cup: 2nd Round

2039-40

English Premiership: (Pos 11), P 38, W 13, D 9, L 16, F 50, A 61, GD -11, Pts 48

(Media Prediction: 18th)

FA Cup: 3rd Round

League Cup: 3rd Round

2040-41

English Premiership: (Pos 14), P 38, W 11, D 15, L 12, F 52, A 62, GD -10, Pts 48

(Media Prediction: 16th)

FA Cup: 3rd Round

League Cup: 2nd Round

2041-42

English Premiership: (Pos 13), P 38, W 14, D 9, L 15, F 55, A 55, GD 0, Pts 51

(Media Prediction: 18th)

FA Cup: 3rd Round

League Cup: 3rd Round

2042-43

English Premiership: (Pos 11), P 38, W 15, D 7, L 16, F 58, A 68, GD -10, Pts 52

(Media Prediction: 15th)

League

FA Cup: 3rd Round

League Cup: 3rd Round

With the media predicting comfortable safety for a change, there was a lot more expectation around the Bandits than ever before, especially given some of the talented youngsters the club now had.

The summer saw a massive change in personnel, the most notable being the departure of star keeper James Wade after he requested a move. But just as many left, many also arrived at the club, as the age of the first team came down again.

Arsenal, Chelsea and Leeds provided the initial opposition in the league, and this horrible run of fixtures ended in three defeats and a placing of 20th for the Bandits, who had much to do to recover from such a difficult start.

But they clawed their way up from there into the top half, and for a while challenged hard for a European place. With three games to go, they sat eighth, and in with an outside shot of qualification, but one point from the last three games saw them denied their first ever top half finish, falling back to 11th on the final day.

The final position belied the improvement in the side – although their defensive record was poor, they scored plenty of goals and scored more points than ever before, beating last season’s tally by one. They appear to be going in the right direction.

The cups were again s disaster, with defeats against Championship Birmingham in the League Cup, and West Brom in the FA Cup ending any hopes of a decent run.

But for once, they were never in any relegation danger at all. They were closer to the top than the bottom, and can consider themselves unlucky to not have finished in the top half – they deserved to.

So a good season all round. Excellent signings were made, which compensated for those players who moved on, but on the whole, the sold players were getting on a bit, and there is now some exciting youth around the first team squad. Can they push on from here?

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Bandits report - Best and Worst

General

Stats

Finance Overview

Interested Players

The number of players interested in joining the Bandits actually fell this season despite their respectable position, dropping away from 8578 to 8437, well short of the record of 8655, set five years ago.

New records:

Total Transfer Income: 26.5m

This season:

Best player – Finley, 7.38

Top scorer – Finley, 21

Worst player – Vincent, 6.33

For the first time ever, the Bandits have reached second place in the rich list, moving ahead of Real Madrid to only sit behind Barcelona. Financially, they are in a stunning position.

Rich Clubs

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Bandits report - The ‘Ryan Morley’s of the world

32 year old Ryan Morley’s CA dropped from 165 to 157 this season, after a disappointing summer in which he never got to play a minute of the World Cup, sitting on the bench for every one of the seven matches England played in reaching the final.

In fact, he spent the entire season out of the international picture, so he may now have ended his amazing career for England, in which he has scored 81 goals in 78 games. It is a harsh way to go, but that just might be that.

Even as a substitute for Chelsea, not starting many games, he scored 19 goals at an average rating of 7.53, so he is still a fantastic asset to any club. It is clear though that he is no longer in favour for club or country and he may soon have to find himself another club. He is considering coaching after his playing days are over.

Paul Dove, on the other hand, is on his way up in the world. The 22 year old striker gained another four points to reach 165 CA, just six short of his potential, but his season was frustratingly curtained by knee ligament damage. He ended up making just five starts for Arsenal, scoring twice. He is still to be capped by England but is prolific at Under 21 level, with ten goals in thirteen matches.

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Bandits report - Team analysis

Goalkeepers

Long time first choice goalkeeper James Wade moved on to Man City last summer, so there was a change between the sticks for this season, new signing Bill Beckham (23, 152/161) taking over as first choice.

Behind him, there were occasional starts for Owen Paris (26, 151/156) and Chris Wade (21, 148/158).

Summary: None of the replacement keepers are quite in James Wade’s class, but there’s three decent ones there nonetheless.

Genie Scout’s Suggestion: Bill Beckham (GK)

Defenders

With Paul Todd leaving, a new left back was also required, and in stepped Martijn van der Vall (27, 135/138), a none too inspiring choice. He was backup up by the increasingly talented Wes McAusland (22, 136/152), who gained five points of CA this year.

With no other cover, McAusland will be expected to claim the first choice mantle next season, unless a new signing usurps him.

On the right, one loanee was replaced with another, Mariotti leaving to return to Milan, and being replaced by Peter Wilson (22, 141/142) of Derby. The only right back the Bandits actually own, Robbie Watts (22, 152/165), split the time with him, but disappointingly found himself second choice.

The lack of right back cover meant that grey players had to fill in towards the end of the season, where a poor run cost them a top ten finish.

In the centre, Charlie Morgan (30, 164/173) and German Nunez (31, 156/158) became the first choice pairing again, but many others played their part, most notably Phil Thompson (25, 154/169), although most of his appearances were in central midfield.

Behind them, Gary Small (26, 147/167) played a reasonable number of games, while Thibault Pichet (22, 151/161) provided further cover.

Finally, starlet Luke Hallett (20, 139/184) gained 12 points of CA and spent the season on loan at Hearts, playing reasonably.

Summary: They desperately need full backs, especially at right back where they own just one player. Two of the centre backs are getting on but they have considerable cover. They must retain Hallett.

Genie Scout’s Suggestion: Wes McAusland (LB), Robbie Watts (RB), Charlie Morgan (CB), Thibault Pichet (CB)

Midfielders

At left wing, Danijel Ivic (30, 157/161) continued as first choice, with Craig Williamson (22, 151/165) now pushing him hard for his place. The rest of the cover is still poor.

On the right flank, Karl Reeve (24, 160/171) took over as first choice, while Ross White (29, 148/152) and Stephen McNeil (27, 137/137) provided backup.

Centrally, Shaun Gibbs (27, 158/158) continued, accompanied mainly by Phil Thompson (25, 154/169), while Fabien Vincent (24, 156/181), a stunning prospect, and Phil Dixon (23, 149/157) provided the squad depth.

Ian Walker (26, 151/157) wants to leave, which is fair enough given the competition, while Peter Watt (23, 149/156), previous first choice Adrien Grosjean (31, 147/158), and defensive midfielder Lee Peacock (22, 145/161) ensure that there are huge amounts of central options.

Summary: Backup at left wing is required, but they are now well covered everywhere else.

Genie Scout’s Suggestion: Shaun Gibbs (LM), Karl Reeve (RM), Fabien Vincent (CM), Lee Peacock (CM)

Strikers

Tom Finley (22, 167/169) continued up front for his second season, scoring 21 goals in a fantastic year, and was this time partnered by new signing Scott McDermott (25, 159/159), who added fifteen of his own in an excellent first season.

Paul Spicer (27, 156/156) provides backup, having been ousted from the side by McDermott, while Peter Brand (21, 150/165) is a really bright prospect.

Ross Ellis (32, 129/157) is at the other end of his career, while the final promising youngster is Mark Pearson (21, 148/168).

Summary: With Finley now content again, they are well stocked in current and future strikers.

Genie Scout’s Suggestion: Scott McDermott (ST), Tom Finley (ST)

Last season’s shopping list:

Left Back – not signed

Right Back – not signed

Left Winger – signed (Williamson)

Striker – signed (McDermott)

With strikers Clayton is now covered, while he now has two options at left wing, but at full back they are still weak.

Summer shopping list: Left Back, Right Back, Left Winger

Same as last year, except for the striker. The most important thing beyond full backs is holding those they have.

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Bandits report - First XI Summary

GK: Beckham (23, 152/161) – 7.27

LB: van der Vall (27, 135/138) – 6.78

CB: Nunez (31, 156/158) – 6.97

CB: Morgan (30, 164/173) – 7.25

RB: Wilson (22, 141/142) – 6.58

LM: Ivic (30, 157/161) – 6.64

CM: Thompson (25, 154/169) – 6.87

CM: Gibbs (27, 158/158) – 7.18

RM: Reeve (24, 160/171) – 6.75

ST: McDermott (25, 159/159) – 7.22

ST: Finley (22, 167/169) – 7.38

Average age – 26.0 (down from last year’s 26.3)

Average CA – 154.8 (down from last year’s 156.5)

Average rating – 6.99 (up from last year’s 6.97)

The average ability of the side drops due to the weakness at full back, but if they get that particular issue sorted then the picture looks excellent, with the age dropping and the performances getting better.

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Competitions - Other stats

England reached the World Cup final without Ryan Morley playing a single minute, before they lost to a last minute winner to the surprise team of the tournament, Belgium. South Korea extended their run of matches without a win to sixteen after losing to Belgium and Spain, but they finally broke their twenty year run, beating South Africa 3-0 in the final match. It wasn’t enough to see them through, but it will provide a cheer back home.

Elsewhere, both age records were broken – Poland’s rising young left winger, Grzegorz Warzycha played against Germany in the group stage, four days before his seventeenth birthday, while at the other end of the scale, Radim Kucera, the Czech defender, was approaching 41 when he ran out against Spain in the quarter finals. After the tournament, he retired and became Czech manager.

England have begun a very simple European Championship group very well, winning all three matches without conceding.

Chelsea returned to win the Premiership for the first time in six years, knocking champions West Ham down to second place. Arsenal came third, but probably the most impressive performance was by promoted Morecambe, who finished ninth. The other two promoted clubs, Crystal Palace and Aldershot, were comfortably relegated, alongside Scunthorpe, whose ten year stay in the top flight is over.

The Bandits broke their own season attendance record, managing to get an average of 100673 fans through their gates.

In the Championship, QPR bounced straight back from their relegation (which followed their Premiership title), to win the league and return to the top flight, accompanied by Barnsley. The playoff final was a battle of the big guns, with Newcastle facing Man Utd, and eventually beating them to condemn Old Trafford to hosting Championship football for the ninth season in a row.

Championship Stoke went on a fantastic run in the FA Cup, and incredibly beat Chelsea in the final to deny them the double. They had tough draws too, knocking out six Premiership teams, playing no-one but top flight opposition from the third round. A truly fantastic achievement. Meanwhile, Liverpool clinched the League Cup, beating the impressive Morecambe in the final.

In the Champions League, the final was a repeat of last year, with Bayern Munich once again beating Real Madrid, and again England had a disappointing year, their last three representatives falling in the quarter finals.

In the UEFA Cup, there was better news for England, with West Brom winning the competition, hammering Atletico in the final.

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