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Official The Netherlands Thread ; Best team never to have won the WC.

Micado

By Micado,
in 2010 World Cup Forum

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robbert_o154

robbert_o154

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Thing is,

Van Persie wants to play SC - and he's possibly our best player (or Robben)

Van Marwijk will grant that, as long as RvP gets match fit.

Sod what he wants, I think we're much better served by playing him behind the striker. What's best for the team counts, not what the players like.

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Micado

Micado

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So you don't like Elia? @ Sam Allen

Would rather have two real wingers then VdV or whoever, as I like to play with wingers (best for me would be Robben/Elia on the wings swithcing from position and then as ST Either RvP or Klaas, whoever is in best form).

@ Robbert.

RvP was playing very very good as ST in the EPL for Arsenal before his injury.

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Smallen

Smallen

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So you don't like Elia? @ Sam Allen

Would rather have two real wingers then VdV or whoever, as I like to play with wingers (best for me would be Robben/Elia on the wings swithcing from position and then as ST Either RvP or Klaas, whoever is in best form).

@ Robbert.

RvP was playing very very good as ST in the EPL for Arsenal before his injury.

It's not that I don't rate him, it's more that he has so little in terms of international experience at any level so maybe the world cup is a bit early for him. Although he has performed well in his games so far, so maybe he is worth a punt.

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Jeroen Thijssen

Jeroen Thijssen

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I agree, I'd just aswell have The Hunt or RvN up front, and have RvP as a #10 or some kind of roaming player behind the striker with Robben and Elia (or Lens coming off the wings)

I'd rather have VdV as backup, still - he is creative... and can cause for some good things. Just as long as he is not let near a free kick (remember Hol vs Rus where he f'd up 30 free kicks?)

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Jeroen Thijssen

Jeroen Thijssen

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Indeed, my bad, it was from Sneijder.

But from this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElOGiefLrFg&feature=related

VdV with 3 quality free kick deliveries, so you're being a little harsh imo.

Nah, he had a crazy amount of crappy freekicks, definitely was a problem in the game. Admitted, the first one in the highlight was spot on.

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Jeroen Thijssen

Jeroen Thijssen

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how is Braafheid gonna be in your squad? he's rank rotten and been replaced in our team by lee naylor( awful awful player).

i pity you if GVB gets injured

Not seen him much at Celtic tbh. But he was fine in Holland and decent enough for Bayern.

If he really is that cack, it'll have to be Emanuelson or maybe even Drenthe.

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seanydude

seanydude

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Not seen him much at Celtic tbh. But he was fine in Holland and decent enough for Bayern.

If he really is that cack, it'll have to be Emanuelson or maybe even Drenthe.

He's been really bad + he walked out on saturday so i cant see him playing again this season tbh

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Micado

Micado

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Only other option I can think of is Erik Pieters, but he's also a big question mark for me.

As mentioned earlier, then I rather have Mathijsen at LB, Pieters is just too inexperienced, he can join the squad for the Euro 2012 qualification sequence.
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Micado

Micado

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Yes, he is a pure DC, but has played for HSV and AZ some games at LB due to injuries and suspensions, imo a better option (beside Gio and Urby) then Pieters, Anita or any other young DL.

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Jeroen Thijssen

Jeroen Thijssen

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Bouma would still have been an option if he wasn't injured so much.

Emanuelson is a decent player, not a star - but definitely all right - his problem is that he's more of a midfielder and likes to play as a winger. A bit like a Zenden perhaps in that aspect

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robbert_o154

robbert_o154

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That's just it though, isn't it; for the Dutch team we've had to make do with wingers and midfielders at left back in lieu of players truly suitable for the role. Frank de Boer was better in the centre than on the left, Bogarde was just generally bollocks, Zenden a winger who could go forward but looked woefully out of place when required to do some actual defending and whilst Gio has performed admirably, better than anyone I could care to mention off the top of my head, it's always been a make-shift solution in his case too.

The fact that Pascal Bosschaart has been seriously considered for the national team tells you all you need to know about Holland's left-back problems. :D

I'm too young to properly remember Adri van Tiggelen; at the time I was more concerned with marvelling at Ruud Gullit and Marco van Basten. Berry van Aerle at right back I remember only for his attacking contributions; how either of them were defensively, I don't really know.

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Micado

Micado

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I'm too young to properly remember Adri van Tiggelen; at the time I was more concerned with marvelling at Ruud Gullit and Marco van Basten. Berry van Aerle at right back I remember only for his attacking contributions; how either of them were defensively, I don't really know.

Yeah, same here, my only memory is Euro 88 and beside the first game against CCCP, we did rather well :D.

The fact that Pascal Bosschaart has been seriously considered for the national team tells you all you need to know about Holland's left-back problems. :D

Yep, sums it up really :D
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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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Who's your most likely first choice defence then?
Van der Wiel, Heitinga, Mathijsen, Van Bronkhorst

What's the state of young defenders coming through in Holland? It's always been a bit of a weak spot for you in the last decade or so, and this backline doesn't look like it's good enough to hold out against the better teams, like previous tournaments. I always want Holland to do really well, I have a massive soft spot for them, but it's so disappointing seeing the contrast of talent between your attacking/midfield players and your defensive ones. :)

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Jeroen Thijssen

Jeroen Thijssen

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we've never really struggled though even in defence... on their day they can definitely compete. Heitinga was good at Ajax, was ok at Atletico and surely has his moment at Everton and the same goes for Mathijsen at HSV.

They can handle guys like Totti, but still we all do think that guys like Messi will horse us. And we don't have Vd Sar these days. ;)

We always have some decent talents coming through, but the DL position still doesn't look to be fulfilled :(

Vlaar is a name to look at, Bruma definitely, Van Aanholt maybe... Pieters of PSV, although he won't be anything special.

Guys like Viergever, Janmaat.. De Vrij is looking good, but he's another DR.

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robbert_o154

robbert_o154

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In addition to what Red said, we have Vurnon Anita who originally is a right-footed midfielder but is doing surprisingly well at left-back for Ajax at the moment. Gregory van der Wiel is a good prospect, still only 22 but already a full international. If he keeps developing as he has the past year, he won't be at Ajax for longer than one more season at most. Dirk Marcellis might turn out well, but his progress has stunted the last year. All in all though, things have looked far worse in the past.

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Jeroen Thijssen

Jeroen Thijssen

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I don't think Anita will ever be an international... unless if a couple of other guys aren't available. He does have an advantage of being to play in several positions though.

I think we have more use of calling up Christian Kum as left-back, oh and by the way.. Bosschaart has been playing quite well lately, even though he was really really really horrible at times during his ADO stint.

Marcellis was great last season, dead certain international - and now nowhere near - backup player at PSV

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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Dont mean to be rude, but I think Spain would have something to say about: 'Best team never to have won the WC'?

Nah, over the years Holland have normally had more talented sides then Spain IMO

It'd be Spain if the it was "who has the best current side and hasn't won a WC"

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Micado

Micado

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Dont mean to be rude, but I think Spain would have something to say about: 'Best team never to have won the WC'?
Well I wasn't really referring to the current crop of players (imo we are not more then a outsider who can go all the way with luck), but was referring to the WC74 & 78.
Nah, over the years Holland have normally had more talented sides then Spain IMO

It'd be Spain if the it was "who has the best current side and hasn't won a WC"

Agreed.

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G-Man11

G-Man11

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Van Aanholt is good. He was on loan at us (Newcastle) for a month and he did alright considering how little time he had.

Will be a good left back for the future

He was a good attacking fulback for us when we had him on loan but not the greatest of defenders. However he did look like he had potential to be a good player and I think playing in a team that went 10 games without a win massively dented his confidence.

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DJ

DJ

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As we've been playing 4-2-3-1 lately, I think going from 4+2 defensive players to 3+1 defensive players would be suicidal. With all due respect to Heitinga and Matthijsen, they're no van Hanegem, Koeman, de Boer or Stam, to name a few players who I'd have trusted with such a role. And who'd be the new Rijkaard? Red would say 'de Zeeuw' maybe and I would likely nominate van Bommel, but yeah... :D

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Micado

Micado

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As we've been playing 4-2-3-1 lately, I think going from 4+2 defensive players to 3+1 defensive players would be suicidal. With all due respect to Heitinga and Matthijsen, they're no van Hanegem, Koeman, de Boer or Stam, to name a few players who I'd have trusted with such a role. And who'd be the new Rijkaard?

Yep, totally agreed, if we would try that, wouldn't survive the group stages.

Red would say 'de Zeeuw' maybe and I would likely nominate van Bommel, but yeah... :D
Love the sarcasm here :D
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Kryston

Kryston

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I mean van Bommel is a decent player at his own right and Demy de Zeeuw looks a good defensive midfielder too but these players sort of pale in comparison to the likes of Philip Cocu or Rijkaard, though hope to be proven wrong.

Is Stijn Schaars an orthodox defensive mid as well?

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Dutch Master Bergkamp

Dutch Master Bergkamp

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As mentioned earlier, then I rather have Mathijsen at LB, Pieters is just too inexperienced, he can join the squad for the Euro 2012 qualification sequence.

Van Der Wiel at right back is also not exactly experienced.

Amazing how we have actually struggled for left/right backs since the retirements of Reiziger and Arthur Numan.

I loved Numan by the way. Always thought it was a shame he missed that game against Brazil in 98.

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Dutch Master Bergkamp

Dutch Master Bergkamp

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As mentioned earlier, then I rather have Mathijsen at LB, Pieters is just too inexperienced, he can join the squad for the Euro 2012 qualification sequence.
As we've been playing 4-2-3-1 lately, I think going from 4+2 defensive players to 3+1 defensive players would be suicidal. With all due respect to Heitinga and Matthijsen, they're no van Hanegem, Koeman, de Boer or Stam, to name a few players who I'd have trusted with such a role. And who'd be the new Rijkaard? Red would say 'de Zeeuw' maybe and I would likely nominate van Bommel, but yeah... :D

Didn't know Van hanegem was a defender. I always thought he was a creative midfielder.

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