Yunny Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Gonna list the top 4 teams + my team Barnet (quit before the 2016-17 season) Post Patch: 2016/17 season: Arsenal 65-40 Liverpool 66-38 Man Utd 58-45 Blackburn 60-45 Barnet 45-56 Half-Patch (I patched in the middle of the season): 2015/16 Bolton 76-45 Barnet 70-49 Arsenal 67-44 Liverpool 70-31 Pre-Patch: 2014/15 Liverpool 78-31 Arsenal 73-35 Chelsea 74-45 Man Utd 48-35 Barnet 39-36 2013/14 Man Utd 71-26 Tottenham 57-37 Chelsea 56-31 Arsenal 65-35 Barnet 32-54 2012/13 Arsenal 65-29 Liverpool 64-38 Man Utd 58-27 Man City 58-41 Barnet 49-55 ------------ Hard data conclusion: So I only have fair data from one and half seasons of the game post patch, but it seems like the overall top 4 teams don't really score that much more goals than they already did, but they concede a lot more. Assuming that the each team creates a similar number of goal-scoring opportunities pre and post patch, the data indicates that the teams that don't dominate play as much seems to be able to take advantage of the fewer opportunities that they create. When you dominate play and shots on goal and have your opponent score 2 goals from the 3 whole chances they created all match (and end up drawing 2-2) is what I call "ridiculous goals" Soft "Experience" Conclusion: My match experience has been similar after the patch. The season when I first apply the patch was the first one where I was able to afford a couple of decent players (with 17+ finishing and 20 composure, and good physical stats) to flesh out my team. My defense was actually tolerable enough to play 4 at the back instead of 5-3-2. I started the 2016 season before the patch, was able to give Liverpool a run for its money in the FA cup, losing 3-2 with similar chances / posession. The season started off pretty much the same way. I faced various noteable opposition and most of the matches were the "could've gone either way" type. After the patch, I noticed a lot more goals from deflected free kicks, scrambles in the box (mostly mine, the opposition defense rarely ever makes a mistake), opponent scoring 1v1 opportunities (while I squander mine). I was barely getting results vs. lesser oppositions from those types of 1-off chances, but still maintaining respectable form vs. the league toppers. My possession every match were mostly around 52-55%, with superior shots on goal ratio. Even though I was able to get 2nd place that season, it was because Liverpool were deducted 9 points and I was 1 point ahead of Arsenal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilUK Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilUK: I've emailed watchdog about it and they have emailed me back saying they may be interested and asked me for more info. What a shame as I have been so supportive of SI. In the past I remember versions of Champ Man before the name change that had 5 maybe even 7 patches. It seems since SEGA's involvement big company attitudes have hit S.I. Its simply wrong to ignore serious game spoiling issues like the goals from corners to move on to the next game. After all SI you released an updated patch to fix the Defoe error, something we could do ourselves in the Data Editor. Yet you won't issue a patch for a game where Centre halfs are outscoring everyone else, in some cases at the rate of 3 goals to 1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It's one (ONE) bug with a known workaround. Not only is your claim laughable but incredibly selfish, as a successful claim (which this won't be) would hit all players of FM of current and future generations as SI would never be able to release anything with any bug, ever. It would cripple the entire industry if software development could be put on hold via one idiot with a complaint. Have you put the toys back in the pram yet? On a more thread related note, a colleague at FM-Britain had horrendous defending problems in a continued save from 8.0.1. I suggested he start a new game and, lo and behold, they all went away. It seems, for some people, that a continued save destroys the defence. If you are seeing crazy high scorelines in your game and KNOW you have a tight defensive unit, it will be best to start a new game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What do you think Watchdog is???? Its a TV programme that looks after consumers. My point is you wouldn't accept this argument from a retail store If you bought a CD from HMV and found a song jumped and HMV said yeah we know about that sorry, can't change it but a new version of the CD comes out in 8 months you can buy that. What would your answer to them be? That is basically what S.I are saying. And before SEGA's involvement they didn't ever do this! Patches kept coming out until the game was done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 27, 2008 Author SI Staff Share Posted February 27, 2008 Watchdog - now that takes me back....was it CM3 we were honoured to be featured on it? Clearly down to Sega On a serious note, it does look like the goals per game may be higher in games started in 8.0/1 and continued in 8.0.2. We are going to run some tests to see if that theory holds water or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krondor Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 NeilUK Alleluia, brother! Lower leagues seem to have an excessive amount of goals (most common score 4:3), even ultra-defensive formation (4-3-2-1) cannot stop a single opponent's striker from putting 4+ into your net every other game. Likewise, my targetman scored 47 goals (10 from the corners and one from a penalty kick) in 40 games. It has nothing to do with tactics, morale or training, it's almost like ME is detached from the game and acting in it's own mysterious ways P.S: BTW there are other leagues than English, therefore so-called hard evidence may not serve as evidence at all, but then again who cares about 0.1% sales figures, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: Watchdog - now that takes me back....was it CM3 we were honoured to be featured on it? Clearly down to Sega On a serious note, it does look like the goals per game may be higher in games started in 8.0/1 and continued in 8.0.2. We are going to run some tests to see if that theory holds water or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Paul- 8.0.2 patch Season one- goals per game 2.62 in my game Season two- goals per game 2.68 in my game Then installed the 8.0.2 but continued the game Season three- goals per game 4.31 in my game Forwards scoring well, corner routine very effective and top class defenders playing like Sunday league players sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 27, 2008 Author SI Staff Share Posted February 27, 2008 FrazT - can you upload your saved game I wonder? Are those goal averages for your games or all games in your division? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyinuk Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilUK: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilUK: I've emailed watchdog about it and they have emailed me back saying they may be interested and asked me for more info. What a shame as I have been so supportive of SI. In the past I remember versions of Champ Man before the name change that had 5 maybe even 7 patches. It seems since SEGA's involvement big company attitudes have hit S.I. Its simply wrong to ignore serious game spoiling issues like the goals from corners to move on to the next game. After all SI you released an updated patch to fix the Defoe error, something we could do ourselves in the Data Editor. Yet you won't issue a patch for a game where Centre halfs are outscoring everyone else, in some cases at the rate of 3 goals to 1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It's one (ONE) bug with a known workaround. Not only is your claim laughable but incredibly selfish, as a successful claim (which this won't be) would hit all players of FM of current and future generations as SI would never be able to release anything with any bug, ever. It would cripple the entire industry if software development could be put on hold via one idiot with a complaint. Have you put the toys back in the pram yet? On a more thread related note, a colleague at FM-Britain had horrendous defending problems in a continued save from 8.0.1. I suggested he start a new game and, lo and behold, they all went away. It seems, for some people, that a continued save destroys the defence. If you are seeing crazy high scorelines in your game and KNOW you have a tight defensive unit, it will be best to start a new game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What do you think Watchdog is???? Its a TV programme that looks after consumers. My point is you wouldn't accept this argument from a retail store If you bought a CD from HMV and found a song jumped and HMV said yeah we know about that sorry, can't change it but a new version of the CD comes out in 8 months you can buy that. What would your answer to them be? That is basically what S.I are saying. And before SEGA's involvement they didn't ever do this! Patches kept coming out until the game was done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> ffs it's a completely different thing. if you CD jump which mean there is a mechnical fault. A similar problem in the game would be if the game would crash at season 3, which is completely different from the issue we have in here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlp071 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Krondor: BTW there are other leagues than English, therefore so-called hard evidence may not serve as evidence at all, but then again who cares about 0.1% sales figures, right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Since you mentioned , it looks like everyone that is defending patch is playing British top tiers. Well this is my '08 career(s). I always start with lowest leagues with LLM rules and since '06 didn't play any British team.Plus I always load all available leagues in game: -8.0.0 Started game with Real Jaen , Spain, board wants mid-table, I exceed and get into play offs ( despite all those near post corners and disallowed goals) and my budget is in green. Got sacked for "not meeting club expectations". I said ok, i guess i will wait for patch, SI usually fix things in patch or 2. -8.0.1 Started another game with Zeytinburnu(Turkish 2B ). 30+ shots per team on goal? No problem it's still playable.Then i got registration bug, had to reload and go on vacation to pass that. It was happening till next season even vacation didn't help. So i waited for next patch to continue. -8.0.2 :Reinstalled whole game then patched. After 1st version was buged for turkish finances , second one supposed to fix it. Continued my save , just to find out that all players are on steroids and my games were 7:5, 6:4, etc... I read that i need to start new game with 8.0.2 to get that fixed . Ok so i loaded new game.To my suprise , same team ,Zeytinburnu , as well whole 2B league now had no players, but loanees and U-18 !! When i finally managed to sign some players , registration bug came back(that was supposedly fixed) and i had only handful players eligible again. On top of that,even with those kids that i had and playing ultra defensive i was beating way better teams with 5:2 , 4:1, 6:3. I mean these are players(kids) with single digit attributes, and i didn't use any "corner" tactics. At that point i gave up and uninstalled FM 08 from my HD, and gonna play 07 till 09 comes out, hopefully completely different than this. In the end i have question for PaulC, if you were in my place at which point you would give up? I do have some degree in computer programming , and in my book this years FM is completely unfinished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deza Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrazT: Paul- 8.0.2 patch Season one- goals per game 2.62 in my game Season two- goals per game 2.68 in my game </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This seems quite "normal". <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrazT: Then installed the 8.0.2 but continued the game Season three- goals per game 4.31 in my game </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I don´t understand this. You played with 8.0.2 and got "normal" scores as above. Then you installed 8.0.2 agian or what and this happens?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSCCG Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Haven't been playing for too long but the results seem alright... And shock horror! Even a 0-0 draw! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oktober Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Anecdotally, I found that immediately after applying the patch, there seemed to be a lot of goals in my games. Previously I was winning 2, 3-0 most games, maybe conceding one or two but generally the title was won and lost in the games between me, Juve and the two Milans. After I applied the patch I was getting 5-3, 3-3 type results against Brescia and Messina. However by the end of the season my team was working and flowing nicely, and in the new season I'm back to exactly where I was before I patched it, defending well, attacking well - only now instead of having 600 shots per game and 4 going in, my world class striker is converting most of his good chances. I have a theory... could this be linked to how the stats of players went down a point or two after patching? Supposedly to bring into line with their CA? I noticed my fairly young goalkeeper dropped a point or two off of most of his stats and I wondered if that was the cause of my sudden defensive frailties at the time. After a year's playing time where his CA has clearly risen he's back to being a wall again and makes some truly spectacular saves that mean that much more now that theres a lot less shots at him per game. Also its far more noticable now that my striker is truly immense since I can get a real feel for him scoring where I felt it was difficult. I hope there was a good point tucked in there somewhere between my appreciation of the new match engine! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutd Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 ok my feedback on the new updated 802 (b !!!) After almost a full week playing a few "tester" games the amount of goals per game ratio in the various seasons I have played seems .......normal. I have played a season each in the EPL, SPL, La Liga, The Bundesliga and even Seria A . Over the course of a season the average varied from league to league from 1.9 goals a game to 2.7. Now I ain't claiming it is scientifically sound, but i have no complaints, in fact i am REALY loving this version (thank SI) . As for the amount of high scoring games, the largest AI score I seen was Inter Milan 8 - Roma 3, a freak result maybe, but these things happen in real life as well. the higest scoring game I have been involved in was Aberdeen (me) 3 Celtic 5 (but that was after I had gone 4-3 behind and went all out attack in the last 10 mins (they got me on the counter attack). I also thought I would test the "Corner kick cheat" in a few games and again it does work, but maybe no more than you would expect in real life . In none of the games I tested did I have a defender score more than 7 goals a season (even though I had both CB's go forward for corners) . Finally I have decided to start a serious game save and always like to try and restore pat glories to the mighty Aberdeen before settling down to a long term LLM game so having set up all my tactics my first 2 league game's were Dundee U 3 Aberdeen 2 and then Aberdeen 3 Hearts 0. on the subject of not enough 0-0's here's proof that they DO happen, this is for game 3 in my current game . So as far as I can see, the match engine is great, I for one am more than happy, KUTGW SI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutd Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 soory, no screenie, forgot how to add, trying to figure out now , anyone care to assist me ?, beleive me, i have prrof of 0-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutd Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 , really need the edit function on here...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deza: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrazT: Paul- 8.0.2 patch Season one- goals per game 2.62 in my game Season two- goals per game 2.68 in my game </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This seems quite "normal". <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrazT: Then installed the 8.0.2 but continued the game Season three- goals per game 4.31 in my game </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I don´t understand this. You played with 8.0.2 and got "normal" scores as above. Then you installed 8.0.2 agian or what and this happens?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Paul/Deza Of course the first 2 seasons were with the 8.0.1 patch and the third season was with 8/0/2- sorry for the confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilUK: What do you think Watchdog is???? Its a TV programme that looks after consumers. My point is you wouldn't accept this argument from a retail store If you bought a CD from HMV and found a song jumped and HMV said yeah we know about that sorry, can't change it but a new version of the CD comes out in 8 months you can buy that. What would your answer to them be? That is basically what S.I are saying. And before SEGA's involvement they didn't ever do this! Patches kept coming out until the game was done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you a complete idiot? In one of the recent Pro Evolution Soccer games on the PS2 I found it too easy to score from a certain type shot; i.e pass the ball across the box and tap it in. Imagine how annoyed I was that Konami didn't re-do the game so that I didn't have to put up with this issue Above is a realistic comparison, comparing a computer game that functions perfectly well; i.e it successfully loads up and does not crash or have any issues that actually stop you playing, with a jumping CD is so laughable I can't believe anybody's quite that stupid. Good luck with your Watchdog letter, I look forward to you coming back on here and admitting you were either talking rubbish in the first place or that they basically said it was a complete non-issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerjnick Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 PaulC, I have played 20 games of a new game with Leeds on 8.02 and the goals are average and not inflated so I would say you are correct in that it may be continuning from a 8.01 game. However, 20 games in and I have scored 11 goals already out of 38 from corners which is highly unrealistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaime: Well, according to SI they'll concentrate on the new game then correcting the existing product... Paul, just imagine you bought a car, and after a week discover that the seller sold you a car with a damaged engine, and when you are requesting to repair it the answer is "sorry lad, but i'm working on the new car, it will be ready in a year, i'll not fix the engine, but i will sell you the new car when it is ready (for a full price surely)". I'm not sorry for the money i spent, i'm just sorry that i was foolish enough to buy another game from $I :-) Well done mates! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> And as for you, you're seriously trying to compare a £20 computer game that you sit and play for a few hours to a car that would cost you thousands of pounds and that would possibly kill you or someone else if it didn't function correctly. If there was a bug in the game that caused your PC to explode risking fatal, PC shrapnel induced injuries then you might be able to make such a rediculous comparison. As it is you just need to adjust your corner routines, hardly life threating is it? God there are some drama queens on these forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaime: Well, according to SI they'll concentrate on the new game then correcting the existing product... Paul, just imagine you bought a car, and after a week discover that the seller sold you a car with a damaged engine, and when you are requesting to repair it the answer is "sorry lad, but i'm working on the new car, it will be ready in a year, i'll not fix the engine, but i will sell you the new car when it is ready (for a full price surely)". I'm not sorry for the money i spent, i'm just sorry that i was foolish enough to buy another game from $I :-) Well done mates! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> And as for you, you're seriously trying to compare a £20 computer game that you sit and play for a few hours to a car that would cost you thousands of pounds and that would possibly kill you or someone else if it didn't function correctly. If there was a bug in the game that caused your PC to explode risking fatal, PC shrapnel induced injuries then you might be able to make such a rediculous comparison. As it is you just need to adjust your corner routines, hardly life threating is it? God there are some drama queens on these forums. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Hooray for chopper99, one of only a select few who make sense on these forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawshiels Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: On a serious note, it does look like the goals per game may be higher in games started in 8.0/1 and continued in 8.0.2. We are going to run some tests to see if that theory holds water or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Paul: Something I've noticed is that the games started in 8.0.1 and continued in 8.0.2 appear to cause more goals for the first 3-4 seasons and then it appears to even out after that. Goals per game started (and finished) in 8.0.1 and goals per game started (and finished) in 8.0.2 seemed to be almost exactly the same. I only came across this during my tests for the other thread ("Current Ability and Attributes Research") and thought I should just highlight this in case it gave you any ideas. And just to confirm that the goals per game increase (on average) seemed to be 1.4 falling to 0.9 after the first full season played after installing the patch. The test I was running was not focussed on this so there may be very good reasons why this information is misleading, but I thought it best to provide it nonetheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted February 28, 2008 Author SI Staff Share Posted February 28, 2008 Thanks Hawsheils for the info, and also thanks to chopper99 for talking sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Regarding the corners- ok there is a workaround, but even by avoiding this flaw far too many goals go in from corners. The near post banker is back and Im finding at lower league level that I see at least a goal from a corner per game, sometimes more. Going back to the workaround though- am I the only one who thinks its a bit crazy to expect people to be happy about having to avoid scoring goals using a perfectly realistic tactic? IMO the fix would be a combination of the following: * Greater keeper protection from refs as irl. * Defending players irl will tend to protect their keeper by trying to get inbetween the keeper and the player standing on him. * Keepers to be able to punch- I dont think this ever happens in FM. * The game to reflect better that on average the advantage of being able to use arms will give a keeper a few inches advantage. * Corner accuracy to be toned down- irl world class players cannot put the ball on the spot everytime, whereas in FM corner takers do this consistently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Kriss, Hawshiels Thank you, my kind intelligent mentors. Chopper, money isn't the main thing. I will pay much more for a good, fixed game. Many of us liked CM, later FM for realism and as far as i think the mistakes like "too many goals" destroy the core of it. Prove me if i wrong but it's not the first time SI are not fixing bugs because of the future product (being SI customer for a long time - i'm sure that the next year the situation will be the same with FM09, with another bugs). Well, you may say "stop buying SI's products if you don't like them" and will be right. Couple of years ago i promised not to buy SI's games, but broke the word :-), hope it will not happen. I payed them since 1993 and think it's enough. But again, please don't misunderstand me - money is not very much important for me, but not for SI. You see, guys, SI will always sell you unfinished products if they are sure that next year you will buy another buggy product, and they don't have to bother theirselves with technical support. Now those of you who had a bad day or want to train their declamation - you are free to attack this post :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianco Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 All in all, the number of goals is fair to both my team and the AI team. And there is another fact that 8.0.2 really becomes less challenging because it makes my team much easier to win matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaime: Kriss, Hawshiels Thank you, my kind intelligent mentors. Chopper, money isn't the main thing. I will pay much more for a good, fixed game. Many of us liked CM, later FM for realism and as far as i think the mistakes like "too many goals" destroy the core of it. Prove me if i wrong but it's not the first time SI are not fixing bugs because of the future product (being SI customer for a long time - i'm sure that the next year the situation will be the same with FM09, with another bugs). Well, you may say "stop buying SI's products if you don't like them" and will be right. Couple of years ago i promised not to buy SI's games, but broke the word :-), hope it will not happen. I payed them since 1993 and think it's enough. But again, please don't misunderstand me - money is not very much important for me, but not for SI. You see, guys, SI will always sell you unfinished products if they are sure that next year you will buy another buggy product, and they don't have to bother theirselves with technical support. Now those of you who had a bad day or want to train their declamation - you are free to attack this post :-) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It's not attacking your posts for the sake of it, it's just that you can't label SI as a one off. All computer games have bugs and if you check the Championship Manager forums you will see that there is uproar as they have decided not to release a patch at all for their latest product. Bugs are to be expected, but SI have made efforts to change this and have released patches, no matter what you think of them. My biggest gripe is that a lot of people shout "BUG" from the rooftops and lambast SI, yet never do anything about it. There was an example earlier on about a car being broken when purchased, now I ask if this happened would you contact the supplier directly voicing your complaints and seeking a remedy or would you post your displeasure on a GENERAL DISCUSSION forum? What exactly do you hope to achieve by complaining on this thread and why do you expect SI to respond when there is a customer care line available? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Thank you Paul C for bringing this up. I have been meaning to update my thoughts on the goal issue since I posted a thread asking if 8.0.2 had changed the goals issue. I started a new game as Bournemouth in League 1 and I am pleased to say that the goals issue is much, much better for me. There are many more 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 and 2-1 scorelines than there previously were and much less high scorelines such as 3-2 and 3-3. It all seems much more realistic to me now. There is a splattering of high scoring games but I suppose that is normal for football. There is certainly nothing ridiculous like 8-5s and 7-8s like I have seen in previous versions of FM08. Thank you for your hard work and I am happy to say I am really getting into FM again. Before I'd think 'I'll turn FM on and see if I can enjoy it again'. Now it's a case of turning FM on because I am enjoying it. There was an addendum I'd like to mention and that is the database. The one major thing that has changed with my current game is that I have not altered the database in any significant way. I past games I would always make small changes to Bournemouth's finances in an effort to increase the difficulty on my part (haven't needed to with the current patch situation ). I also add players to my local sides in the Wessex league to give friendlies more meaning and to give my reserves more interesting games to play when I am taking over Dorchester. All I have done in my latest game is make Bournemouth's chairman more likely to stand down and the Defoe change. I don't know if that has any bearing on the way a saved game runs. Lastly I had a brief look down the divisions in my current saved game and there are quite a few more goals in the BSS than there are in league 1. It's not as many as there were in my Dorchester saved game but it is noticeable. This may be the case in the real BSS of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Oh and as for the corners issue, well I haven't really noticed far too many goals from corners. To be honest I think there were far too few goals from corners previously and too many from direct play. The only thing I have changed is moving any players away from standing on the near post to attacking the near post. I don't even see opposing sides score too many goals from the near post. Most of their headed corner goals come from a striker attacking the near post or attacking the keeper. I think it's spot on. Of course I may be influenced by Bournemouth's inability to defend a corner this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianco Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Hey everyone, the key issue now should be shifted from 'BUGS' of 'number of goals' & 'corner scorings' to the enjoyableness of FM802. Actually in my mind, the 'number of goals' and 'corner scorings' are not bugs, but those really makes FM too easy and less challenging. That must be more harmful to the enjoyableness than any bug. Right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deza Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 After reading all posts in this thread I think we can agree that this "too many goals" problem is caused when you continue your 8.0.1 save-game with 8.0.2. If you start a new game with 8.0.2 there are no problems like too many goals and ridiculous scores. Is it like this Paul C? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ljuba82 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC: We've been pretty clear that there isnt another patch planned. We have to concentrate on FM2009 now. Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Money, money, money...this game is definetely spoiled by money... ...I found that after 8.0.2. patch the game is much more playable...but it isn't realistic enough again. Also...tell us...why we have to wait 6 months to get playable game...just to play it for the next few months...just to get new games...that will be garbage for next few months? This is the worst CM/FM ever (and I'm playing it for 10 years). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss03 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Personally I've found that the number of goals has improved greatly in 8.0.2. With 8.0.1 I was playing in the Serie B and was scoring around 80 and conceding about 60 goals in the league (42 games) every season, finishing in mid-table positions. Surely a mid table team shouldn't be averaging almost 2 goals a game? I also found that other teams in my division were scoring far too many (especially for an Italian league) and as a result too many strikers were getting 25+ goals a season. Other competitions I weren't involved in however seemed far more balanced. I carried on this save game with 8.0.2 and am currently 25 games into a Serie A season (just 2 teams on 24 games still yet to play each other). Seeing as all teams have played 25 games in the current Serie A season I thought I'd compare the amount of goals scored so far in the real life Serie A and in my save. I found that the actual Serie A has yielded 635 goals so far while there has been 633 goals in my game, albeit with one less game played. Also, I have found that the top scorers in the game are far more balanced than it used to be with all but 2 strikers scoring over 12 goals so far. For me I feel that this issue has been resolved with the 8.0.2 patch. I've also found that the shots per match ratio has improved significantly and is much more true to life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff7197 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I'm not seeing this. I started my game under 8.0.0 and have continued it ever since. This latest season (Under 8.0.2) my games have seen goals as follows: Scored: 2.3 Conceded: 1.1 Total: 3.4 So whatever's happening, it's not universal. The most I've scored in a match so far has been 3, and the biggest scoring game was a 3-2 victory over Reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maviarab Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 just to folow up on my previous post.. Hardly Ridiculous ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff7197 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cliff7197: I'm not seeing this. I started my game under 8.0.0 and have continued it ever since. This latest season (Under 8.0.2) my games have seen goals as follows: Scored: 2.3 Conceded: 1.1 Total: 3.4 So whatever's happening, it's not universal. The most I've scored in a match so far has been 3, and the biggest scoring game was a 3-2 victory over Reading. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, the god of irony looked my way as I pressed "Post Now", and then I go and thump Arsenal 5-2, with Aston Villa and Everton also playing out a 4-4 draw. I'll keep an eye on it for now, see what happens during the rest of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I had a game pre 8.0.2 that was into 2020 with Blyth Spartans..there were far too many goals in that, and it ruined it for me in the end..especially seeing as the average player in the EPL had an ability of 120! :/ But i now have a game 3 seasons in with 8.0.2..the problem hasn't gone away, its just mutated im sorry to say (tho regens are better). I'll explain: I now see league rounds where there are lots of low scores (something i never saw before, there were always a couple of games in which 5+ goals were scored).. but now..the results are either: all low scores (0-2) goals scored per game, or all high scores (4+) goals per game, and very rarely is there a mixture of the two. For games run on low detail..nothing improved much, no 0-0's, lots of silly scores like 9-3 and 6-1, 5-2..but the most common by far is 4-3. And when i mean most common, i mean that, in the first round of the uefa cup for instance, a very, very large percentage of games will be 4-3 (something like 10%). So its not fixed yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCrouchinho#15 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Just drew 6-6... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 My defence is impenetrable. I am conceding to few goals! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmanisa Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I am bleeding goals too, and scoring many also. My last four scorlines have been 7-4, 6-4, 2-1 and 4-0, with my team losing all but one. I did not start this game with 8.01 either. In fact, 8.02 made four of my key players all of a sudden require work permits and were rendered ineligable, so i started again, tried to buy most of my players again and used almost identical tactics. We never scored or let in this many goals before. I think i did start it with the feb 14th vers of 8.02 if that means anything. I don't belive any of the previous issues and so called bugs that have ever been mentioned have ever caused me any concern, but this one does seems to be a little bit of an issue. Not a game breaker, i just now know that a 2-0 scoreline at half time will not be the case at full time, with a probable ectra 5 goals to be scored. I did vary width and defensive line etc... might try and start again, or do as another magnolia dave suggested and uninstall and reinstall the game with patch 8.02 where he states things seem normal again.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the schrute Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 man you guys gotta be a lot better than me as i continuously keep on shooting a tons and not scoring goals, where as teams beat me by having one shot on target and 5 off. but oh well...one day i will get it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganche78 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I have started San Marino challenge with 8.0.0. updated latter with 8.0.1. and now with 8.0.2. Except few AI games with high scoring i didn't find that there are to many goals. Before installing 8.0.2. I have found out that it was very rare situation to get 0-0 game, but now after 8.0.2. installed I had 3 of my games with 0-0 score (and it is only in 1st half of the season). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Long range goals are far too prevelent- also the ball speed for these is far too slow for any of these to beat any keeper from range let alone a pro. You can try closing down but even at lower league levels any player will spot the hole instantly and exploit it, as neat little one twos that succeed are far too common. Midfielders fail to sheild the defence unless you just get them to sit- tracking back is walking back. Lower league level management is no longer about defence as the match engine seems to rate players of equal standing like this: GK: * DRLC: * MRLC: * AMRLC: ******************** FC: ******************** Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Actually further to this players just do not block shots, only to serve the purpose of producing a deflected shop. Yes, players close down but this just means the player will not shoot, therefore when a long shot is taken it is invariably always when given space to, no wonder they are going in so often. Addition required for FM09- players diving in to block shots as the player is winding up to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Long shots again- just had a player smash (well glide more like) and a goal into the top corner. His long shots stat is just 5, but this isnt what bothers me as we see players scoring one offs irl. My issue is he is right footed, and turned a player whilst level with the start of the right side of the "D". So as he turns and hits it into the right side of the goal the most natural motion would be a left foot shot, or an outragous outside of the right shot or even punt. I quite like 8.02, but imo no version of FM08 has got lower league football right, if doesnt accurately reflect the reduced technical ability in what we see on screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Play is so precise and perfect- Im trying to play a direct, quick game but all moves are perfect, slow, shorts moves where the opposition is taken apart. This is not lower league football!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Marking in midfield is weird- players stand off, even with tightmarking on, and when the player they are shadowing is static. On top of that they do not cover goalside, or close down passing avenues- this is basic stuff, again no wonder players are scoring for fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
www2 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 CLICKY for those who still think that there are not to many goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 This has been my first really good session with 8.02 and I really cant believe this got through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Graham Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 My results this season- playing a standard 442, tweaked a little to keep a mid back, DCs standing off a little and getting wingers forward but keeping DR/DL back and not exploiting the corner bug: 1-0 2-0 5-2 0-1 6-3 4-4 3-3 2-2 2-1 4-2 1-3 4-4 5-4 3-2 1-1 2-5 4-4 2-0 6-1 Awful just awful, first time Ive ever gone back to a previous version but no version of FM08 has hit the mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmanisa Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I must admit George, I too may be looking at going back to the first patch. I was loving the game, felt my tactics were workign so that the goals were beign created the way i had planned etc... I am in no way having a go at SI or FM 08, cos i love the game and find that I have never had an issue with any of the previous bugs or problems people have posted in the past. No, this is not really a major, game breaking problem, but it has taken the shine off somehwat. Not complaining, just going to go back a step and hope that the bugs that have been fixed in the 8.02 vers do not affect my game in anyway.... I wil wait and see what else is posted before uninstalling and then starting all over again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iglesia Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilUK: I've emailed watchdog about it and they have emailed me back saying they may be interested and asked me for more info. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It sounds like you're having more luck than me mate. I've been emailing Watchdog for the past 5 years complaining about how poor Darren Caskey is in the game. They agreed with me, but said there was little that could be done. Hope that helps.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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