The number of goals in 8.0.2

[Schwarz]

I posted a new topic unawere of the existence of this one. Sorry for that.

Here are my findings:

On top, portuguese league 2006/2007 season final standings. The second table shows 2007/2008 season final standings on FM 802, fresh start. The difference is astounding, and, to be honest, i'm quite disappointed SI aren't fixing this. It's particularly unrealistic when it comes to smaller clubs.

1 º F.C. Porto 30 22 3 5 65 - 20 69

2 º Sporting 30 20 8 2 54 - 15 68

3 º Benfica 30 20 7 3 55 - 20 67

4 º Sp. Braga 30 14 8 8 35 - 30 50

5 º Belenenses 30 15 4 11 36 - 29 49

6 º P. Ferreira 30 10 12 8 31 - 36 42

7 º U. Leiria 30 10 11 9 25 - 27 41

8 º Nacional 30 11 6 13 41 - 38 39

9 º Boavista 30 8 11 11 32 - 34 35

10 º E. Amadora 30 9 8 13 23 - 36 35

11 º Naval 30 7 11 12 28 - 37 32

12 º Marítimo 30 8 8 14 30 - 44 32

13 º Académica 30 6 8 16 28 - 46 26

14 º V. Setúbal 30 5 9 16 21 - 45 24

15 º Beira Mar 30 4 11 15 28 - 55 23

16 º D. Aves 30 5 7 18 22 - 42 22

| Pos | Inf | Team | | Pld | Won | Drn | Lst | For | Ag | G.D. | Pts |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 1st | C | Sporting CP | | 30 | 26 | 3 | 1 | 67 | 11 | +56 | 81 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 2nd | | Porto | | 30 | 23 | 4 | 3 | 58 | 10 | +48 | 73 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 3rd | | Benfica | | 30 | 20 | 5 | 5 | 56 | 19 | +37 | 65 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 4th | | Braga | | 30 | 16 | 8 | 6 | 42 | 29 | +13 | 56 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 5th | | Vit. Guimarães | | 30 | 15 | 8 | 7 | 52 | 35 | +17 | 53 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 6th | | Belenenses | | 30 | 15 | 4 | 11 | 54 | 49 | +5 | 49 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 7th | | Académica | | 30 | 11 | 9 | 10 | 44 | 39 | +5 | 42 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 8th | | Nacional da Madeira | | 30 | 12 | 4 | 14 | 53 | 55 | -2 | 40 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 9th | | Leiria | | 30 | 7 | 9 | 14 | 31 | 49 | -18 | 30 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 10th | | E. Amadora | | 30 | 7 | 7 | 16 | 27 | 47 | -20 | 28 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 11th | | Marítimo | | 30 | 6 | 10 | 14 | 26 | 41 | -15 | 28 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 12th | | Naval | | 30 | 7 | 7 | 16 | 33 | 46 | -13 | 28 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 13th | | Vit. Setúbal | | 30 | 7 | 6 | 17 | 34 | 65 | -31 | 27 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 14th | | Leixões | | 30 | 7 | 4 | 19 | 29 | 57 | -28 | 25 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 15th | R | Boavista | | 30 | 5 | 9 | 16 | 38 | 61 | -23 | 24 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| 16th | R | P. Ferreira | | 30 | 4 | 7 | 19 | 27 | 58 | -31 | 19 |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| | | | | | | | | | | | |

| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Big clubs (with better defenders) seem to be on spot, so kudos to that.

Smaller teams are leaking badly however.

The games were played in full detail. I haven't seen this problem in leagues playing with basic detail on.

So, in short: The excess goals happens with fresh start 802 games, played in full detail, with teams whose defending ability is average for the division they play in, human and AI alike.

Average goals conceded for teams excluding Porto, Benfica, Sporting and Braga irl: 39,1

Average goals conceded for teams excluding Porto, Benfica, Sporting and Braga in full detail game: 50,2.

Note that irl the worst defence was Beira-Mar, 55 goals conceded, and it was by a rather large difference to the runner-up worst defence, Academica, who have conceded 46 goals.

In game, 4 teams conceded more goals than beira-mar, and one team, nacional, conceded the same amount of goals.

I can easily replicate this data. This isn't a one off season. Just play the leagues in full detail one season and you will be able to do it too.

[postal postie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gundo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

so far in about 32 games the goals scored direct from corners for me are

1 for alonso

2 for crouch

2 for carragher

1 for agger

1 for benayoun </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What corner tactics are you using? (individual and corner aim?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i haven't set anything for the actual conrer taker.

i've set a person to take the corner then get one person on the near post, another on the far post, some to lurk outside while one attacks farpost, one attacks near post.

and thats it.

[postal postie]

my observations of hte first season. started with 802.

playing as liverpol.

prem games only

liverpool goals first, oppo second

0-0 reading

2-1 newcastle

1-1 derby

3-1 middlesbrough

2-3 everton

1-1 chelsea

3-0 wigan

3-2 man city

4-1 birmingham

1-0 arsenal

1-1 blackburn

1-0 portsmouth

0-1 sunderland

2-0 west ham

3-1 fulham

2-2 aston villa

1-5 man utd

3-0 spurs

2-1 everton

2-0 newcastle

1-1 bolton

1-2 reading

2-1 derby

0-0 middlebrough

2-0 chelsea

3-1 birmingham

1-1 newcastle

1-0 wigan

0-0 mancity

1-4 arsenal

2-4 blackburn

2-2 sunderland

1-0 westham

2-1 fulham

4-2 porsmouth

0-0 astonvilla

1-1 bolton

[postal postie]

ronaldo goals prem games

36 games

14 goals

7 assits

7 MOM

elano gaols prem games

30 games

7 goals

7 assists

2 MOM

all in all, with the games i've played and goals scored it seems perfectly fine.

its a basic 442 with forward arrows for the wingers.

fullbacks and wingers and 1 CM have attacking mentality.

1 CM and both strikers have normal and the CB have defnesive.

1 CM has through balls often long shots rare.

the other has throughballs rare long shots often

wingers run with ball often and cross mixed.

[jimmy_d]

I started a new game with the patch and now in my 6th season and it seems ok to me, sometimes it can seem like there are too many goals but i dunno.

SOme stats if they help:

Started with Lewes in BSS and now in league 1

played 322 games won 158 drawn 71 lost 93 scored 650 (2.0pm) conceded 458 (1.4pm)

mostly used a 442 but also used 4312 and 41221 a little bit

[theboydonegood]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Thanks Hawsheils for the info, and also thanks to chopper99 for talking sense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is an outrageous reply really, customer service should not be any better or any worse because in one event you may get killed where as the other product is just 'a game'

i seriously cannot believe that a representative of a company that relies on the public to buy its product has such a slipshod attitude to the concerns of its customers.

you just lost yourself one customer for 09.

[Liverpool24]

Before the patch in my Hamburg game i wasnt conceding and also not scoring really either but now i am getting matches with lots of goals, my last match was a 7-4 loss to a team who was favoured to lose and i have had 4-3,5-4,5-3 etc, i have also noticed that when i score or the other team scores whoever just conceded the goal always goes down and scores within 2 minutes of conceding.

[Ljuba82]

Hey guys...I finally realised where is the fault. They accidentally replaced footbal manager ME code with code from hockey games...

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Thanks Hawsheils for the info, and also thanks to chopper99 for talking sense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is an outrageous reply really, customer service should not be any better or any worse because in one event you may get killed where as the other product is just 'a game'

i seriously cannot believe that a representative of a company that relies on the public to buy its product has such a slipshod attitude to the concerns of its customers.

you just lost yourself one customer for 09. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are those who work for a software company not allowed to have a sense of humour? Or are the user base the only ones allowed to laugh at someone who goes to the ridiculous extremes of phoning 'Watchdog' becasue he doesn't like the corner routines? Or, in this PC age, should no-one actually laugh at him and be forced to take him and his complaint seriously, as he is an 'in-duh-vidual' whose opinion is perfectly valid, no matter how ludicrous it may appear to be. If SI listened to every 'in-duh-vidual' then they would spend infinite amounts of time coding and recoding every module as each opinion disagrees with someone else's. Sometimes, you just have to laugh at the dummy spitters, or you'd end up crying.

[Schwarz]

My research shows a deviaton of about 30% when it comes to clubs whose defence is merely average, considering the league they are playing in, in full detail matches only. That's staggering, and, really, a showstopper. Back to 702 i guess . I really hope SI reconsider issuing a new patch. Maybe we have been spoiled over the years, with SI's hard work in polishing the game. But why lower the bar now? I've played SI's games since cm1, and I am a proud owner of one of the oldest accounts on this forum (more of a reader than a poster though). Never been one of the ranting type, and, as a gamer, i'm aware SI's support is, quite simply, unparalelled.

But truly, the disappointment i feel now is only matched by the disappointment i felt when CM3 and CM4 came out. Both those versions i bought, and didn't play. Right now, FM2008 adds to that (still small) pile.

I can easily forgive SI for this. They gave me years and years of fun. CM/FM was my favourite toy when I was a child (was 10 years old when i started playing CM1), it was with me through my high school and college years, and my playtime is probably higher than 1 year. All with tremendous joy.

I will definetely buy FM2009, hoping SI improve the standards of the game. I'm sure they will. But right now, I just feel i have to get my disappointment on record as to how unpolished fm2008's final version is.

[danmanisa]

I have uninstalled and simply gone back to patch 8.01.

Scores have returned to normal so far. I am only hoping that there was no MAJOR fix of a game breaking bug in 8.02. As i recall, i noticed nothing in the three seasons i played before getting 8.02.

I think i will stick with the game like this until 09.

Does anyone know if the 'corner bug' is evident throughout the entire version, or just after 8.02?

[Schwarz]

The corner bug is present in previous versions.

[danmanisa]

Thanks,

I have not read too much about the corner bug, so i will stick to my normal tactics so that it never actually effects me.

Scwartz, why don't you go back to 8/01 instead of 7.02?

[data6930]

Will a fixed patch be issued in respect of the number of goals issue - personally I hope so.

On a side note it amazes me that every release has this issue then gets fixed then for some reason it is amended again. Why not stick to the progranmming for this area of the game with the ones say in FM07 when that was tweaked and seemed to pacify people.

[Deza]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

my observations of hte first season. started with 802.

playing as liverpol.

prem games only

liverpool goals first, oppo second

0-0 reading

2-1 newcastle

1-1 derby

3-1 middlesbrough

2-3 everton

1-1 chelsea

3-0 wigan

3-2 man city

4-1 birmingham

1-0 arsenal

1-1 blackburn

1-0 portsmouth

0-1 sunderland

2-0 west ham

3-1 fulham

2-2 aston villa

1-5 man utd

3-0 spurs

2-1 everton

2-0 newcastle

1-1 bolton

1-2 reading

2-1 derby

0-0 middlebrough

2-0 chelsea

3-1 birmingham

1-1 newcastle

1-0 wigan

0-0 mancity

1-4 arsenal

2-4 blackburn

2-2 sunderland

1-0 westham

2-1 fulham

4-2 porsmouth

0-0 astonvilla

1-1 bolton </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The scores look quite normal to me. It´s wierd that some people get really wierd scores and too many goals in matches, while some people get "normal" amount of goals in their save-game. What I see from these post is that to start a new game with 8.0.2 may be the solution. It could be something with continuing the 8.0.1 save-game with 8.0.2 that makes this happen.

[gunnerfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

My results this season- playing a standard 442, tweaked a little to keep a mid back, DCs standing off a little and getting wingers forward but keeping DR/DL back and not exploiting the corner bug:

1-0

2-0

5-2

0-1

6-3

4-4

3-3

2-2

2-1

4-2

1-3

4-4

5-4

3-2

1-1

2-5

4-4

2-0

6-1

Awful just awful, first time Ive ever gone back to a previous version but no version of FM08 has hit the mark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what you were expecting in terms of wins and losses, but do you think you're record is better, worse, or just about what you would have expected? Did you find that there were tactical problems you couldn't resolve?

As I look at your numbers, I agree that they are on the high side (5 matches out of 19 in which there were 8 goals or more), but I'm not sure that would make the game unplayable for me.

[Schwarz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thanks,

I have not read too much about the corner bug, so i will stick to my normal tactics so that it never actually effects me.

Scwartz, why don't you go back to 8/01 instead of 7.02? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nowadays i play mostly network games and fm2008, with the corner bug, allows for an uneven playing field between those that know the exploit, and those who don't. So, me and some folks aren't allowing it on our games. The fact that we like to start with average sides and most of us play in somewhat defensive fashion helps in this decision too. It's impossible to shut up shop and play counter attack in fm 2008 without top notch defenders, unlike in fm2007 and irl, and we like to play in a style we appreciate, not in a style predefined by the game.

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schwarz:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thanks,

I have not read too much about the corner bug, so i will stick to my normal tactics so that it never actually effects me.

Scwartz, why don't you go back to 8/01 instead of 7.02? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nowadays i play mostly network games and fm2008, with the corner bug, allows for an uneven playing field between those that know the exploit, and those who don't. So, me and some folks aren't allowing it on our games. The fact that we like to start with average sides and most of us play in somewhat defensive fashion helps in this decision too. It's impossible to shut up shop and play counter attack in fm 2008 without top notch defenders, unlike in fm2007 and irl, and we like to play in a style we appreciate, not in a style predefined by the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont agree that it's imposibile to play very defensive with not the best defenders. oposition instructions are the key to succesfull defending. the game is harder, more realistic then ever before!! still not perfect but to me 802 is great improvement from 801. I also believe that these high scoring games are maybe even more database issue (players being too good) then a ME bug. I'm yet to see high scoring game problems in my game...

[Schwarz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:

Originally posted by Schwarz:

quote:

Thanks,

I have not read too much about the corner bug, so i will stick to my normal tactics so that it never actually effects me.

Scwartz, why don't you go back to 8/01 instead of 7.02?

Nowadays i play mostly network games and fm2008, with the corner bug, allows for an uneven playing field between those that know the exploit, and those who don't. So, me and some folks aren't allowing it on our games. The fact that we like to start with average sides and most of us play in somewhat defensive fashion helps in this decision too. It's impossible to shut up shop and play counter attack in fm 2008 without top notch defenders, unlike in fm2007 and irl, and we like to play in a style we appreciate, not in a style predefined by the game.

I dont agree that it's imposibile to play very defensive with not the best defenders. oposition instructions are the key to succesfull defending. the game is harder, more realistic then ever before!! still not perfect but to me 802 is great improvement from 801. I also believe that these high scoring games are maybe even more database issue (players being too good) then a ME bug. I'm yet to see high scoring game problems in my game... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if I could effectively play defensive without top defenders (which I can't), the AI is unable to do it. In fact, I assume it's impossible to play well defensively due to the fact that the AI can't. If they could, I would think it is due to my tactics. But they can't.

[Schwarz]

The point being: if I could play well defensively, while the AI couldn't, that would be a major bias towards the human player, removing some joy from the game.

[meter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Watchdog - now that takes me back....was it CM3 we were honoured to be featured on it? Clearly down to Sega

On a serious note, it does look like the goals per game may be higher in games started in 8.0/1 and continued in 8.0.2. We are going to run some tests to see if that theory holds water or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paul - Curious to see what data your tests came back with.

I would really like to know as I am now paranoid as hell and am having a hard time enjoying the game because I am more concerned about watching score lines then having fun with the game.

[Dirky Diggler]

Ive seen a few stupid results that are just annoying to be honest, arsenal beating chelsea 8-0 and 7-1 united hammering liverpool 6-1 at anfield, arsenal hammering united 5 and 6 - 1. it seems the bg games that are always close (barring united arsenal fa cup) end up one team getting a hammering, also how overratted are arsenal, every new start Ive had so far arsenal have won 10 out of 11 games at the start!!

[meter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by meter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Watchdog - now that takes me back....was it CM3 we were honoured to be featured on it? Clearly down to Sega

On a serious note, it does look like the goals per game may be higher in games started in 8.0/1 and continued in 8.0.2. We are going to run some tests to see if that theory holds water or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paul - Curious to see what data your tests came back with.

I would really like to know as I am now paranoid as hell and am having a hard time enjoying the game because I am more concerned about watching score lines then having fun with the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also, did your tests include lower leagues?

[homerjnick]

The corner big is extremley annoying and hampers a career game in FM08.

I just finished a game where I had 21 shots to their 4 and I had 72% possession overall and it was 2-2, they scored both their goals from corners.

I scored 18 last season from corners and generally concede a goal from a corner if not every game then at least every second game.

There is nothing I can do about it so when I see Key highlight upon Key highlight for me and I miss then they get one chance and its a corner my heart sinks as they will score it.

8.02 makes the game great but the corner bug simply ruins a career game as I got promoted last season soley down to scoring 18+ goals from corners.

[glamdring]

My two main experiences so far are one in Scotland which I started with the 8.0.1 patch and moved to 8.0.2 after a season and one in Italy/Germany which I started in 8.0.2.

The Scottish one definitely has a large number of surprisingly high scorelines post-patching, but that is in Scottish Division 3 (I didn't really take much notice of the divisions I wasn't in) and, without having real life stats infront of me, I imagine you tend to get more goals at that level of football anyway because the skill level is a lot less.

My Italy/Germany game (8.0.2 from the start) doesn't seem to be bad at all for having too many goals. Obviously there is the odd eyebrow-raising result, but there are in real life too. At Fiorentina I began with two 0-0 draws so whilst there are perhaps a few too few 0-0 draws in general I managed to bag a couple despite pummelling Atalanta into the ground with attacking football in the first of those

[sirdez24]

4-3 down after 29 minutes.

First goal to me from a corner.

Second goal to me after they play an atrocious back pass which is intercepted.

Third goal to them after a computer shot from the edge of the area is deflected into the path of their striker.

Fourth goal to me after I steal the ball off their centre half.

Fifth goal to them after my full back is robbed of possession.

Sixth goal to them after another deflected shot falls to their striker, who plays it in off my defender for an own goal.

Seventh goal to them after a third deflected shot falls to striker, who hits it against a defender and then scores the rebound.

I have pretty much accepted this is as good as it's going to get for 08, but would it kill to see a few more goals from build up play? Right now it's just errors, long shots/FKs and fortunate deflections.

[DB11]

Some people just want to complain.

The people moaning that there were not enough goals to shots have gone.

Some more people have come up with something else to moan out.

It's like fans of Leicester City!!

[DB11]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Foster:

It's like fans of Leicester City!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We win it's all "we're going to get the play offs! " and we lose it's "oh we're gonna get relegated. Ollie Out!"

[mlp071]

I did some internet research and on one of the FM websites i found ME beta tester commenting this:

On defense changes and general amount of goals:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In 8.0.1 the problem was they were never in the right positions (especially the FBs, but also the DCs when they ran towards the ball as the TB was hit!?!). Now they are more often than not, and, in general, read the play pretty well. Shooting accuracy may well be tweaked a little high though, so the times they don't you are over heavily punished </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding 'Corner bug":

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1: I didn't see the problem in Beta testing, but then I don't use the setup that is working overly well. I imagine a fair few other Beta testers didn't either.

2: For someone that did, they may have attributed it to their great tactical ability and not reported it.

3: It happened on the last build and thus nobody spotted it in time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In regards to Free kick scoring:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It was actully me that supplied SI with the real life data re percentage of goals scored from set-pieces and it is roughly one in five (from memory I think it was 22%) at the highest level. This was taken from an academic analysis of International Tournaments from 1980 onwards. It also measured the likelihood of scoring an open play goal based on the relative distance a player is from the goal and from an opposing player closing him down. It also suggests one in four SOT go in, so an average GK should have roughly a 75% save ratio.

As of yet nobody has discovered a data source to measure this throughout levels, so it is all based on assumptions from that point on.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In addition to that he mentioned in post on forums here that ME has 2 game breaking bugs(one beign corners) and some additional annoying bugs that will be fixed in future release.And that ME had 150+ changes between 8.0.1 and 8.02, which for me explains why some different things resurfaced and were not noticed.

To me it looks like that general idea of where ME is going is good.

And if you remove affects of the bugs mentioned above , you would have decent engine and better results without odd high scoring games.

For that you will have to wait 09, though, since due to time limit they didn't catch/fix those in 08.

In the end you have to chose do you want to play game with accepting these bugs, or be patient and wait for 09.

Either way , it appears that SI is aware of most of the problems and will work on them for next edition.

Till then i will be in FM 07 boot

[homerjnick]

But then there will newer FM09 ME bugs.....

[mlp071]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by homerjnick:

But then there will newer FM09 ME bugs..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At this point , i believe that is irrelevant subject.

I posted this so:

- people that have issues with present ME can see that SI is aware of the problems and will try to fix them for next issue.They should still post their concerns, if they feel like , but restrain for insulting (flaming ) others.

- people that are abusing those that are complaining , to stop that and read other threads that are more enjoyable for them.

Or make some productive comments, not just flames , because that doesn't lead to anything productive here.

[homerjnick]

Hey I am a big fan of FM but I have seen the development of the ME since the start and it seems that the same issues/bugs always come up because as they fix/implement features it breaks other areas.

The ME will never be right 100% because its not something tangible to replicate.

I think FM08 8.02 is by far the best ME.

[Da Thief]

just wanted to mention. had a few experiences of stupid scores. drew 5-5 away wot reginna. im roma. every attack had a goal.

not only that.......... AC Milan went 27 games without conceding a goal. they won a LOT only 1-0 but it was just stupid. i only lost 4 league games all seson and finished bout 9 points behind milan. i know thats not so unrealistic, but 27 games in a row............surely they aint that good?

[vaz1111]

I'm experiencing lots of goals, my first full season with the patch (in league two) saw me have 21 games with 5 or more goals in them.

[llama3]

i dont know if i am doing something vastly different to you guys, but my matches have very few goals, scoring at average of 1.8 a game, conceding average of 0.6 a game. not many big scores whatsoever, i have my team set up to attack, but there are still few goals, most of my opponents only get 1 or 2 shots on goal all game.

[theboydonegood]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Thanks Hawsheils for the info, and also thanks to chopper99 for talking sense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is an outrageous reply really, customer service should not be any better or any worse because in one event you may get killed where as the other product is just 'a game'

i seriously cannot believe that a representative of a company that relies on the public to buy its product has such a slipshod attitude to the concerns of its customers.

you just lost yourself one customer for 09. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are those who work for a software company not allowed to have a sense of humour? Or are the user base the only ones allowed to laugh at someone who goes to the ridiculous extremes of phoning 'Watchdog' becasue he doesn't like the corner routines? Or, in this PC age, should no-one actually laugh at him and be forced to take him and his complaint seriously, as he is an 'in-duh-vidual' whose opinion is perfectly valid, no matter how ludicrous it may appear to be. If SI listened to every 'in-duh-vidual' then they would spend infinite amounts of time coding and recoding every module as each opinion disagrees with someone else's. Sometimes, you just have to laugh at the dummy spitters, or you'd end up crying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

saying 'in-duh-vidual' only goes to show what an utter cretin you are tbh

[gunnerfan]

When you've contributed as much to the understanding and analysis of this game as wwfan has, y'all give us a call.

[Dunga99]

I haven't had a 0-0 result in 4 seasons worth of playing since 8.02

[postal postie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deza:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

my observations of hte first season. started with 802.

playing as liverpol.

prem games only

liverpool goals first, oppo second

0-0 reading

2-1 newcastle

1-1 derby

3-1 middlesbrough

2-3 everton

1-1 chelsea

3-0 wigan

3-2 man city

4-1 birmingham

1-0 arsenal

1-1 blackburn

1-0 portsmouth

0-1 sunderland

2-0 west ham

3-1 fulham

2-2 aston villa

1-5 man utd

3-0 spurs

2-1 everton

2-0 newcastle

1-1 bolton

1-2 reading

2-1 derby

0-0 middlebrough

2-0 chelsea

3-1 birmingham

1-1 newcastle

1-0 wigan

0-0 mancity

1-4 arsenal

2-4 blackburn

2-2 sunderland

1-0 westham

2-1 fulham

4-2 porsmouth

0-0 astonvilla

1-1 bolton </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The scores look quite normal to me. It´s wierd that some people get really wierd scores and too many goals in matches, while some people get "normal" amount of goals in their save-game. What I see from these post is that to start a new game with 8.0.2 may be the solution. It could be something with continuing the 8.0.1 save-game with 8.0.2 that makes this happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its a mistery to me as well. although if you look at those results of mine i did get thrashed by manutd

i have a feeling that individual opponent player tactics are more important against the bigger teams than the smaller teams because you can get away with your superior talents against them.

against manutd and arsenal ( who i got thrashed 4-0 in the league cup) you have to pay more attention to snuffing out their big names.

although rooney is scoring more than a goal agame.

i have a feeling this is to do with him being so good and also something to do with manutd playing 1 up front?

he was injured for about 4 months of the first season and still finished with 21 goals in 20 games.

second season he's got 17 in 14 games.

[wwfan]

Nobody gets my references. :sigh:

Is the supposed sanctity of the individual so ingrained in modern society that freedom to do as one pleases, no matter how ridiculous or potentially harmful to the wider community, is always defensible? Any criticism of the actor is then regarded as either non-PC or subsumed under the inalienable rights of consumer satisfaction and the right to voice complaints, no matter how ill thought or trivial. You are defending a pathetically selfish action over and above the requirements of a wider community, of whom you are a member, based on what exactly? You feel sorry for the original poster? You actually agree that FM deserves to be reported to a complaints investigation service, for a minor software error?

The reference to 'in-duh-vidual' pertains to one who acts through immediacy, being either a slave to his emotional reactions to situations or to ingrained cultural demands, such as the rights of the consumer. These reactions stop people from being able to reflect on their actions and focuses entirely on the effect of the action itself, no matter how it might effect the community or environment surrounding the actor. Non-reflection binds people to the world as constructed by those in power and fails to offer any protection from the tyranny of imposed freedom.

Or, of course, it is just a cretinous remark

[theboydonegood]

no worries wwfan, i get your point, i just think that the makers of this game should really fix the corner thing this issue its daft I also dont think the makers of the game should be so flippant publicly to the folk who buy it year on year. it grates

[wwfan]

No harm done

Unfortunately, software companies are hampered by set in stone production dates and a fixed corner routine would hinder the development of FM09. All we can do is refuse to use the exploit. I score a realistic amount of corners without it and defend corners well enough for the few AI teams that use it not to overly bother me.

I don't think he was being flippant, rather realistic. I don't think SI ever take constructive criticism lightly. However, when the critique is ridiculous, it deserves a certain amount of ridicule. I don't think that came form Paul. He agreed with one who ridiculed the complaint, rather than ridiculing the complainer himself. Personally, I don't think that is unacceptable.

[Burscoughnian]

Ridiculous amounts of goals now. Every game is at least 2-2. My goalkeeper is dreadful since the patch, yet he still gets 7+ each game when letting in five or six. All from about 30 yeards out too. Bought two new insanely expensive goalkeepers to no avail. There's no goalkeeper in the game that can save long shots anymore, sadly.

[chopper99]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Thanks Hawsheils for the info, and also thanks to chopper99 for talking sense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is an outrageous reply really, customer service should not be any better or any worse because in one event you may get killed where as the other product is just 'a game'

i seriously cannot believe that a representative of a company that relies on the public to buy its product has such a slipshod attitude to the concerns of its customers.

you just lost yourself one customer for 09. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trust me, the customer support shown by SI, long after the game has been released, is a hell of a lot better than any other company I think I've dealt with, and that includes car manufacturers.

And is this reply really any more ridiculous than someone comparing a game that has an avoidable cheat corner routine in it to a car that's sold with faulty brakes or an engine that doesn't work? Be serious, if people are going to make such incredibly stupid comments then those comments will be met with the contempt they deserve by me. I make no apologies about it, if you want to say stupid things then expect a reply that you might not like. And comments about writing to Watchdog over a dodgy corner routine, or comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic.

[This field intentionally l]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't one facet of consumer law a determination of whether a product is fit for the purpose it was bought for? Does the product's cost have any bearing on this determination? I suspect not. I'm not saying FM 08 is not fit for the purpose, but then I'm not the guy sitting at the back of a Clapham omnibus.

[postal postie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by This field intentionally left blank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't one facet of consumer law a determination of whether a product is fit for the purpose it was bought for? Does the product's cost have any bearing on this determination? I suspect not. I'm not saying FM 08 is not fit for the purpose, but then I'm not the guy sitting at the back of a Clapham omnibus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but then you have to argue what 'the purpose' of a piece of software is for it to be 'fit for'

it.

which you will not win if you try to argue about it in court.

[endee26]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by This field intentionally left blank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't one facet of consumer law a determination of whether a product is fit for the purpose it was bought for? Does the product's cost have any bearing on this determination? I suspect not. I'm not saying FM 08 is not fit for the purpose, but then I'm not the guy sitting at the back of a Clapham omnibus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but then you have to argue what 'the purpose' of a piece of software is for it to be 'fit for'

it.

which you will not win if you try to argue about it in court. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it could be successful because the game has to be fit for purpose and many people not just one have paid their £25.00 - further it says on the box "More realistic than ever" - it is not - and "Better and Easier than ever" - it is not better or easier than earlier versions - therefore SI and SEGA may well run into trouble with their description.

[postal postie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by endee26:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by This field intentionally left blank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't one facet of consumer law a determination of whether a product is fit for the purpose it was bought for? Does the product's cost have any bearing on this determination? I suspect not. I'm not saying FM 08 is not fit for the purpose, but then I'm not the guy sitting at the back of a Clapham omnibus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but then you have to argue what 'the purpose' of a piece of software is for it to be 'fit for'

it.

which you will not win if you try to argue about it in court. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it could be successful because the game has to be fit for purpose and many people not just one have paid their £25.00 - further it says on the box "More realistic than ever" - it is not - and "Better and Easier than ever" - it is not better or easier than earlier versions - therefore SI and SEGA may well run into trouble with their description. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

depends on your take on the word 'realistic'. alot of people on here would say the game IS easier. so its subjective. if SI truly believe it's better than previous versions then i dont see that they've said anything wrong.

it's not black and white like an advert claiming they give you 50£ and then blatently dont. then you can claim false advertisement.

[endee26]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by endee26:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by This field intentionally left blank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't one facet of consumer law a determination of whether a product is fit for the purpose it was bought for? Does the product's cost have any bearing on this determination? I suspect not. I'm not saying FM 08 is not fit for the purpose, but then I'm not the guy sitting at the back of a Clapham omnibus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but then you have to argue what 'the purpose' of a piece of software is for it to be 'fit for'

it.

which you will not win if you try to argue about it in court. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it could be successful because the game has to be fit for purpose and many people not just one have paid their £25.00 - further it says on the box "More realistic than ever" - it is not - and "Better and Easier than ever" - it is not better or easier than earlier versions - therefore SI and SEGA may well run into trouble with their description. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

depends on your take on the word 'realistic'. alot of people on here would say the game IS easier. so its subjective. if SI truly believe it's better than previous versions then i dont see that they've said anything wrong.

it's not black and white like an advert claiming they give you 50£ and then blatently dont. then you can claim false advertisement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't it have to be realistic and easy for any one who is 3+.

[leftback in the changing room]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Thanks Hawsheils for the info, and also thanks to chopper99 for talking sense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is an outrageous reply really, customer service should not be any better or any worse because in one event you may get killed where as the other product is just 'a game'

i seriously cannot believe that a representative of a company that relies on the public to buy its product has such a slipshod attitude to the concerns of its customers.

you just lost yourself one customer for 09. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trust me, the customer support shown by SI, long after the game has been released, is a hell of a lot better than any other company I think I've dealt with, and that includes car manufacturers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been wondering about how to reply in this thread without breaking my golden rule of Forum Posting:

"Never write anything you wouldn't want to hear read

1) to your parent / spouse / boss

2) in a court of law

3) on the front page of the Daily Mail"

Thankfully the Chopper99 response neatly summed up my thoughts exactly. Well said all round.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And is this reply really any more ridiculous than someone comparing a game that has an avoidable cheat corner routine in it to a car that's sold with faulty brakes or an engine that doesn't work? ... I make no apologies about it, if you want to say stupid things then expect a reply that you might not like. And comments about writing to Watchdog over a dodgy corner routine, or comparing a £25 computer game to a malfunctioning car are so stupid that they are quite frankly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree about the car analogies - Cars are riddled with flaws. Absolutely riddled. From basic stuff like leaky boots on Mark IV Golf GTi's to the early 00's Mercedes build quality problems that saw them drop to near the bottom of the JD Power customer satisfaction ratings, the fact that people compare a £10,000 to £40,000 vehicle to a £20 piece of software is ridiculous. It's not like SI demanded £750 each to tell us the workaround for the Defoe transfer problem.

As for Watchdog - well that show is beneath contempt. They like to deal with extremely one-sided 'Human Interest' stories like people having their gas cut off or their banks losing their money. There will not be much interest in a few 'gamers' pointing at their computer screen saying "Look - that's the third corner I've scored from in this game! It's ruined my life and caused my cat to become sick!"