CaptainPlanet Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The highbury squirrel did it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevvy Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 there are things, which frustrated me, like world class strikers miss tons of 1on1s or an empty goal, or arsenal is unrealisticly overrated and so on.. i accepted it, because nobody can code a perfect simulation.but what happened a few minutes ago, makes me wanting my money back for fm2009. champions league semi final vs. barcelona. i'm leading 2-1, everything wents fine until the 91st minute. take a look at this: View Video OR http://rapidshare.com/files/196720596/akinfeev_xvid.avi WHAT THE HELL? akinfeev is one of the best goalkeepers of this game. his reputation is "world-class" and his morale "superb". he got 19 on "throwing". oh yeah, nice joke SI. please give me my money back. You want your money back just because of that? Oh dear, you are desperate aren't you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Terrible thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Aggravating, but hopefully you realise that all mistakes are not actually mistakes and may be the players fault, rather than the ME. The OP doens't seem to understand the difference, or accept that players can make mistakes. Yes, some of the mistakes will be the fault of the players but you must presumably accept that a lot of them are, in fact, down to weaknesses in the ME, all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbag Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 things like this never happen IRL, in the 1966 WC Final the Germans were not beaten by England, they were beaten by a bug which failed to show the ball had cross the line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yes, some of the mistakes will be the fault of the players but you must presumably accept that a lot of them are, in fact, down to weaknesses in the ME, all the same. Of course! I have no love for the FM ME, but this thread, in particular, is a moan about one error that no-one can prove is an ME problem. That's why I agree with chopper99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 That's why I agree with chopper99 What are the chances Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Bad Luck mate. However I have to say that the comeback like Turkey did to Croatia. it was one game in the entire European Cup. The last match I saw comeback like that was a game Where Portugal was playing Holland for qualification for the European Cup 2000 (i think). Where Portugal was loosing 0-2 and they needed a draw to qualify. In the Last ten minutes Portugal score 2 goals. Who here doesn't remember the comeback of Bayern (i Think) in the final of Champions cup? So comebacks and injuries may happen in real life, but they happen here and there. However in FM09 they happen in very frequent manner. In FM07 I was winning 3-1 and end up loosing 3-4 because one of my defenders where expelled. But this was one match that happen like that in the entire season. In FM09 it can happen like in 15 games or more in the entire season. It happen in both FM08 and FM09. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 To be fair, it's not the fact that it's a mistake but the sort of mistake given the keeper's stats that seems to be what the OP finds especially annoying. The best players in the world can make silly mistakes. My Mum used to be rather good at making cakes when I was a lad (she still is - sorry Mum)) but even my Mum had a bad day when a cake went wrong. Are you suggesting that the game should be made so that players with a high rating in a stat (specifically stats such as throwing, kicking or free kicks etc) should never fail at that aspect of the game? Did David Beckham ever take a bad free kick, or Alan Shearer ever miss a penalty? It's part and parcel of the game; the real game and FM. The OP was damn unlucky, but not robbed to the extent he deserves a refund. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 What are the chances If those two agree about something it MUST be wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Are you suggesting that the game should be made so that players with a high rating in a stat (specifically stats such as throwing, kicking or free kicks etc) should never fail at that aspect of the game? No. I just said I understood why he found it annoying! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If those two agree about something it MUST be wrong! I'll have you know that Nomis and I are both genius’s, if we agree on something it should in fact become law Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 No.I just said I understood why he found it annoying! Ok, sorry, is he suggesting? Are people suggesting? That's the opinion I get from what many people have said on these forums. You, yourself, did say (in this very thread) that you believed a lot of mistakes were down to weaknesses in the ME rather than the fault of the players. Is it a weakness or just realism? Is it really a lot that that argument applies to? I don't believe the ME is as poor as people keep suggesting. Sure there are moments of madness but often that is the ME adjusting to better represent the numbers in a graphical format or simply that you, the manager, need to adjust your tactics or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I don't believe the ME is as poor as people keep suggesting. Sure there are moments of madness but often that is the ME adjusting to better represent the numbers in a graphical format or simply that you, the manager, need to adjust your tactics or something. I agree that this thread may not be an example of ME problems, but IMO the ME is pretty poor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'll have you know that Nomis and I are both genius’s, if we agree on something it should in fact become law Your argument is as flawed as the ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Is it really that bad? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ok, sorry, is he suggesting? Are people suggesting? That's the opinion I get from what many people have said on these forums. You, yourself, did say (in this very thread) that you believed a lot of mistakes were down to weaknesses in the ME rather than the fault of the players. Is it a weakness or just realism? Is it really a lot that that argument applies to? I don't believe the ME is as poor as people keep suggesting. Sure there are moments of madness but often that is the ME adjusting to better represent the numbers in a graphical format or simply that you, the manager, need to adjust your tactics or something. The silly things that players do in the ME, whether on my side or the AI manager's are legion! Running round in circles rather than going for the ball, running away from the ball when they could easily get it, DCs charging out to tackle oncoming midfielders leaving huge gaps, standing still so that the opposition can take the ball off them, full backs running parallel to the opposing winger and then moving politely out of his way so he can cross it, defenders booting the ball out when there's not an opponent within 20 metres......and so on and so on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The silly things that players do in the ME, whether on my side or the AI manager's are legion!Running round in circles rather than going for the ball, running away from the ball when they could easily get it, DCs charging out to tackle oncoming midfielders leaving huge gaps, standing still so that the opposition can take the ball off them, full backs running parallel to the opposing winger and then moving politely out of his way so he can cross it, defenders booting the ball out when there's not an opponent within 20 metres......and so on and so on Some of those things players do in the real world. Defenders booting the ball out of defence may sometimes be because the defender resembles a beast closely related to a horse, but is also because he's making a hurried clearance. Defenders often run out to tackle midfielders too. You may not want them to do so but they may have a rash moment of stupidity and do it anyway. Like I said, I agree there are moments of bizarreness, but I have found them less common than many seem to paranoidly (is that a word?) believe. I still feel the fact that the graphics are just a representation of numbers dished out by a computer is something to do with it. How many times must the game find that a player is in slightly the wrong place and that his movement must be checked? Is that a ME fault or something that is a likely error and will be improved with over time? I'm not an expert, so I am speculating. I still do feel that people are all doom and gloom here about a new FM component that is bloody good for a first try. FM is the first to fully combine realism and 3D. Other management sims may have 3D, but do they have realism on the scale of FM? Even the old 2D match engine had quirks. Because it's now 3D maybe they stand out more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Even the old 2D match engine had quirks. Because it's now 3D maybe they stand out more. I'm sure that's right! I honestly don't think the ME was ready when this game was marketed. It's an unfinished product, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Some of those things players do in the real world. Defenders booting the ball out of defence may sometimes be because the defender resembles a beast closely related to a horse, but is also because he's making a hurried clearance. Defenders often run out to tackle midfielders too. You may not want them to do so but they may have a rash moment of stupidity and do it anyway.Like I said, I agree there are moments of bizarreness, but I have found them less common than many seem to paranoidly (is that a word?) believe. I still feel the fact that the graphics are just a representation of numbers dished out by a computer is something to do with it. How many times must the game find that a player is in slightly the wrong place and that his movement must be checked? Is that a ME fault or something that is a likely error and will be improved with over time? I'm not an expert, so I am speculating. I still do feel that people are all doom and gloom here about a new FM component that is bloody good for a first try. FM is the first to fully combine realism and 3D. Other management sims may have 3D, but do they have realism on the scale of FM? Even the old 2D match engine had quirks. Because it's now 3D maybe they stand out more. everything that you have posted i disagree with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auto98uk Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think a lot of people say the ME is faulty when it is actually the graphical representation that is faulty tbh (or the interface between the ME and the graphical representation) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think a lot of people say the ME is faulty when it is actually the graphical representation that is faulty tbh (or the interface between the ME and the graphical representation) However one chooses to describe it, what one actually sees is often not very realistic. You watch the match unfold and keep saying to yourself, 'Would any player really act that way?' or 'What on earth did he do that for?'. The problem is that because what we see happening in the match ought to be the main thing which makes us decide what to do and, in fact, it's so unsatisfactory, it makes it very confusing when we come to take tactical decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The irony with this clip is that before the match there was a tribute to Bjarte Flem, where he was hailed as (one of) the best keepers in Norway. Then this Throwing the ball can be a tricky thing... That said, it happens too often in FM09 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If those two agree about something it MUST be wrong! How dare you!! Mod alarm is being sounded right now and you are about to joing the infraction freeway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think a lot of people say the ME is faulty when it is actually the graphical representation that is faulty tbh (or the interface between the ME and the graphical representation) I think both are flawed in their own right. The ME obviously has some glaring errors, but these errors are emphasised by the graphical respresentation, which, at time, appears to be trying to make up for errors. I.e. The ME knows that player A is going to win the ball, but the graphical representation has player B closest to the ball. In order for it to play out the way the ME wants it to, player B stops in his tracks and player A takes the ball. That's not necessarily a ME issue, it's an impementation issue that affects ME and graphical representation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 How dare you!! Mod alarm is being sounded right now and you are about to joing the infraction freeway! *Unrepentently sticks out her tongue and runs off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i\'m not moaning! Its s Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 So many of these rubbish arguments dont even stand up to the point, the guy gets caled a moaner because of this? A forum is for venting his frustrations which he is allowed to do. Fair enough he has to go to the shop for a refund but i reckon he knows that, he just wants to rant about the terrible bug. I love some of the defenses, examples Learn to live with the bug - fantastic, i love spending 4 weeks on a season just for the stupid game to throw a ridiculous bug in at the climax of my 'success'. All the 'it happens in real life' comments - hmmmm i watched al the videos and none , yes NONE stand up to the argument, the dion dublin one - dublin was BEHIND the keeper not 10 yards in front as in the OP's game. The turkey game - that was a good goal. Robinson and neville - a bobble in the pitch from a backpass. I play in goal on a weekend and i can honestly say that after 12 years of playing i have NEVER seen this, never. It would not happen. The bjarte flem blooper - he 'threw' the game it was later found out. It never ceases to amaze me how little people on here actually know about real football and what the game actually plays like (not on tv). Get to the park and then watch fm 08 onwards - it just doesnt represent the game one bit - the match engine now is terrible and there are so many bugs - but i guess i am just a moaner and 'should live with it'. What a great life it must be to live with second rate products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 A forum is for venting his frustrations No, it really isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i\'m not moaning! Its s Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 No, it really isn't. I like how you take one tiny point out of my argument and make it the focus...... Actually a forum is for a debate, his point was that he feels the game is so bad he should be refunded, he is allowed to say that....maybe he feels this will influence others who are looking to buy the game? Not every post has to be positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I like how you take one tiny point out of my argument and make it the focus...... I'm not obliged to have to respond to every comment you've made, I was simply picking up on one that was incorrect. Actually a forum is for a debate Reasoned and constructive debate, not ranting/raving or venting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i\'m not moaning! Its s Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 In my opinion his debate would be constructive to anyone looking to purchase the game lol, he would save them 25 quid! Nothing more constructive than that! I didn't say you was obliged to reply to everything, I just pointed out that you took one small part of my post, shame as some of the things I said made a mockery of about 95% of the previous posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 In my opinion his debate would be constructive to anyone looking to purchase the game lol' date=' he would save them 25 quid! Nothing more constructive than that!I didn't say you was obliged to reply to everything, I just pointed out that you took one small part of my post, shame as some of the things I said made a mockery of about 95% of the previous posts.[/quote'] Negative constructive posting is either reporting a bug in the game and/or saying what is wrong with the game and how it can be improved. Posting that their goalkeeper makes a bad unrealistic mistake in his eyes is fine but ranting over it and saying i want my money back is not really the right way to go about it in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i\'m not moaning! Its s Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It is a fantastic way of interpreting the problems he is experiencing. What better than to actually post a video of the ridiculous action? I cant think of anything at all....if he had simply entered a text version of the action I for one wouldnt have believed it, it was so wrong on so many levels lol. I think the reaction of 'I want my money back' was simply a reaction to the level of the problem. To compare this is like playing a golf tournament, being on the 18th green of the last round and having a 2 ft putt for the win, then someone pops out of the crowd while you put and shoots your ball with a rocket launcher, killing you in the process. I think I would have been very mad, i am surprised he had a computer left to post his comment lol As this site represents all that is good about FM surely it has to stand up to the bad too? Or isnt that fair? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 As this site represents all that is good about FM surely it has to stand up to the bad too? Or isnt that fair? Of course that is true but posting constructively be it good about the game or bad is the most beneficial way to go about it. There are plenty of things wrong with the game and they have been discussed constructive by many people. I don't want to get at the opening poster as I seen far more unconstructive (or should I say destructive :o) posts than his but his post is still not very constructive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i\'m not moaning! Its s Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I suppose it isnt constructive but i guess his mind was a total wreck for a week or so lol. I too get so frustrated at how the game has deteriorated (in my opinion) in the last few years i just cant find anything good to say about it. The game actually improved in 08 (which to be honest wasnt hard - i could have improved on it by getting subbuteo out of my attic and playing that instead). The match engine however is still absolutely diabolical, players running where ever they want, mistakes everywhere, world class players playing like sloth from the goonies would perform in a beauty contest. It really isnt acceptable. And for people to say live with it isnt acceptable either, it will make SI think they can release crap after crap after crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Eyed Wheeler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The bjarte flem blooper - he 'threw' the game it was later found out. Maybe he needs to investigate his 'keeper for possible match fixing then? You make good points though' date=' he shouldn't have to settle for 2nd rate products. If that happened to me I think I would class that as a pre-determined result and would therefore cheat and load up my last saved game. I don't do it as a rule but that would definitely make me stick the middle digit up at the screen and replay the match. By the way, don't think this one was mentioned. As a Toon fan this one sticks quite vividly in my memory: [url'] [/url]Didn't read all the posts, but was Tim Flowers/Stan Collymore mentioned? When the ball hit a bobble and chipped Flowers lol!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Eyed Wheeler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Reasoned and constructive debate, not ranting/raving or venting. What's wrong with a rant, of course he can, do you write the rules like just cos you've got 4000+ posts. I think you're taking him a bit literally; he's come on here to vent about how stupid the game can be at times, if you don't like it then go and read somewhere else... God all he wanted was a bit sympathy! Here's the Flowers incident LOL: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Eyed Wheeler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I seen far more unconstructive (or should I say destructive :o) I may be wrong but I think the exact opposite would be "deconstructive" lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelbVictory Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 lol at this thread and what the keeper did. I'm always trying to get my strikers to get this to happen, being a LLM you play against keepers with one leg and 1 composure. I try to show them on the their weaker foot and close them down. Havent had the luck yet. Since the 2d Match engine Ive seen a whole heap of stuff like this (ie. my own defneder, at the defensive corner flag, crossing it into his own box where the lone striker scores.) The engine aint perfect and I doubtit ever will. All I say is, Chillout man. It is a game and quite honestly, not quite a sim (since you can pause the game for an hour and make 1,000 tactical adjustments in the dieing seconds of a match). Do what most people do - exit quickly, reload yoru saved game and have a laugh or keep playing. p.s. I have returned a whole heap of games. As long as the box is alright, just say that the PC specs were too high, didn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I may be wrong but I think the exact opposite would be "deconstructive" lol. I had to look it up. I was right the 1st time. Unconstructive. Deconstructive is a word as well though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnsleyCarl Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote name=By the way' date=' don't think this one was mentioned. As a Toon fan this one sticks quite vividly in my memory: QUOTE] I already posted this video above! no worries! the peter enckleman one is much worse though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Eyed Wheeler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Ah yeah, soz mate. In which case I hope this hasn't been posted already but it was too good to leave out: Ha ha ha ha his skills are so silky even he doesn't know what he's gonna do next! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indi75 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH For the love of god. Pram >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Teddy tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 do you write the rules like just cos you've got 4000+ posts. What's that word doing in there? Do the youth of today write as if they are speaking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
berggren75 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 *yawn* It never will stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 In my opinion his debate would be constructive to anyone looking to purchase the game lol' date=' he would save them 25 quid! Nothing more constructive than that![/quote'] Not if he doesn't supply a reasonable assessment. He wants his money back because his keeper made an error. No one has made clear it is a bug. Many don't believe it is a bug. People still assume it is though. Constructive criticism Here's a paragraph from the above article: Generally, constructive criticism should address an area that needs improving but does not speak to the person’s self. Constructive criticism should be a reasoned, unemotional response in an effort to teach. In spousal communication, constructive criticism is often shaped as the “I” message: “I feel X, when you say Y.” In parental relationships, constructive criticism generally works best when the timing is right. A child who has just lost a game, for instance, might be better served by encouraging words, rather than a performance critique. Do you really think the OPs message was unemotional? I think he's the child that just lost his last game. It's also a biased view by someone upset with in game events. It's not constructive for that point alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoIfsong Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It's either your failure to deal with 4-2-4 or your teamtalks that demotivated Akinfeev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I saw you mention team talks in another thread, but I thought you were joking. Are you seriously saying that a teamtalk could cause a keeper to make an error? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I saw you mention team talks in another thread, but I thought you were joking. Are you seriously saying that a teamtalk could cause a keeper to make an error? I reckon, in real life no, in FM yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediocy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I saw you mention team talks in another thread, but I thought you were joking. Are you seriously saying that a teamtalk could cause a keeper to make an error? Not saying this is what happened with the OP, but you could for example, give an inadequate team-talk that failed to arrest the issue of your goalkeeper "feeling complacent". As a result, the goalkeeper might be more prone to making mistakes due to his temporary lack of concentration. Or it could happen to a goalkeeper who is "playing nervously", resulting in him fumbling the ball as he hurriedly tries to make a clearance when in actual fact, he could have taken more time with the ball to ensure he does not give away cheap possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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