At a loose end since 9.20 patch.

[NepentheZ]

Ok. I seldom come into the T&TT forum asking for help. Infact, normally I'm here to offer it after I master how tactics work.

In the 9.10 and 9.11 patches, I had developed a very sturdy, attacking, flamboyant 4-4-2 with AML and AMR. It was very simple, playing to the team, and players strengths. My team wasn't the best (Just promoted to League 1) - but After 12 League 1 games, I had won 8 and lost 4, sat just off the top spots. Downloaded the patch, and what preoceded to happen is beyond me. 17 games with just 1 win and 2 draws. My team went from having around 13-18 shots a game (on target and CCC's were random, still) - to literally struggling to get 1 shot in a game. Infact, in a few, I don't even think I had 1 shot. My passing accuracy dropped from around 72% per game to often less than 50% a game, and my other vital things in the tactic just stopped working. My strikers struggle to score anymore, despite having attributes in key areas, and my tactic has just fallen apart, after 7 years success. (not exactly a ground breaking, 4-0 win after 4-0 win kind of tactic, but the kind where I dispose of teams I'm supposed to beat, and give good fights against those I shouldn't)

What annoyed me more is, in my first 12 games, I beat a few of the "big teams" in League 1. After the patch, I lost SIX TIMES to teams in the bottom 4. I can't begin to tell you how annoyed I was.

Alas, I started a new game, Moving from Dafuge's Challenge to Gundo's Challenge, and took over islangmagee. Not an amazing team, and I don't have an amazing squad. I knew this. I expect(ed) it to be hard. But what I didn't expect is a current record of

W - 0

D - 1

L - 7

Its awful. I created a new tactic for it, again, going back to basics (because when my tactics failed in 07 and 08, thats what I did, to stabalize the team) - but nothing works. I can play park the bus football, and get battered, play attacking football and get battered, or just play very orthadox football and still struggle.

My strikers have 1 goal between them in all 8 games they've played in, and again, I barely have a shot.

As mentioend, I don't usually come here asking for help, because I like to figure it out myself, but I'm losing my rag currently, and need help.

So please, wwfan, T&TT, anyone - help me out here.

[iamjerome]

i'm not familiar with the team at all so i couldn't really say. i would suggest making yourself very hard to score against first and foremost and build upon from there. to do this, i would design a formation around a tough midfield; i advocate 4-2-3-1/4-5-1, with 2 DMs, but this usually requires you having 3 creative attack minded midfielders to go with it.

[Evertonbloke]

I just read the patch change list and the match engine only lists one change, and that was to stop keepers dropping the ball after 6 seconds.

Are you just having a bad run?

[Evertonbloke]

I just read the patch change list and the match engine only lists one change, and that was to stop keepers dropping the ball after 6 seconds.

Are you just having a bad run?

[TheBetterHalf]

I just read the patch change list and the match engine only lists one change, and that was to stop keepers dropping the ball after 6 seconds.

Are you just having a bad run?

That was the change list for the last build, there have ben many builds since the last patch though, i.e many change lists

[NepentheZ]

I just read the patch change list and the match engine only lists one change, and that was to stop keepers dropping the ball after 6 seconds.

Are you just having a bad run?

I never have bad runs like this. Not 28 games over 2 different saves. Especially considering I've tried things, many things to stop the rot. Coincidentally, I actually just won a game. \o/ - 4-2 using once again completely reworked tactics, based largely on a defensive set up. 5-4-1 with literall DL - DC - DC - DC - DR / ML - MC - MC - MR / ST - and managed to score 4 goals. :confused: - I played with defensive mentalities, and although had a long ball attack, my striker is small. So I'm 100% bemused as to how I actually scored.

[iamjerome]

did you bore their defence to sleep?

[wwfan]

Will be interesting to hear how you were generally scoring/conceding prior to the 9.2.0 patch. I imagine a few people with slightly dodgy defensive and attacking setups were getting away with not conceding and scoring from deep down to the over efficiency of long shots and the poor striker conversion rate. I'm still scoring long shots, but they are mainly from my MCs, not my forwards, who now require better build up play to get them into position in the final third. Defensively I am having to be more aware of the quick break, which requires a slightly lower d-line. As, like you, I am playing in the lower reaches, longer balls, less CF and CD, a deeper d-line and a TM might help with immediate results. However, the TT&F fundamentals are still holding pretty strong for me.

[Cilldara_2000]

I've just started my third season with Kidderminster which will be my first season with the new patch. It's our second season in League 2.

I have reworked my tactics with slight tweaks to the set up I'd been using in the first 2 seasons. I have 10 sets set up. 5 based on a 4-4-2 formation, 4 based on a 4-2-3-1 formation which uses 2 MCs, 2 wingers and an AMC. The 10th tactic is 4-4-1-1 which is just my shut up shop version of 4-2-3-1. I'll report back on how it goes.

[NepentheZ]

wwfan :

Most of my goals came from the wing, pre-patch. Not exactly from my wingers, but as much with 07 and 08 (if you remember my Knockbreda tactic) - wingers play a vital role for me. In this version, I had my tactic set up very similar, with the wingers seeing a lot of the ball, and a lot of my goals coming from the crosses and passes they provide. I'm not going to sit here and say none of my goals came from i) the long shots or ii) the "Keeper hoof" - but not a massive percentage. My midfielders scored a lot of my long shot goals prior to the patch anyway, but currently with the 9.20 patch, I'm just not even having shots.

Unless I give a ful breakdown of my pre patch tactic, I'm not sure how I can describe how the team played before. Perhaps I was inadvertently exploiting holes in the ME without even realizing. Anyhow, for now, I'm going to persevere. I've calmed down a little from before, and have had a good old read of the T&TT forums, and have a few new ideas I'm going to implement into my tactics, so I'll let you know how I get on.

[NepentheZ]

I feel like crying. Literally. 4 wins in 19 league games, 6 wins in a 25 games season so far.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I just don't. I've tried everything, but nothing is working.

I'm just.... lost for words.

[Shiraz]

Wow! Has the new patch made it that difficult? If it has, I will just stick with 9.1 honestly.

[GoodIdea]

I feel like crying. Literally. 4 wins in 19 league games, 6 wins in a 25 games season so far.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I just don't. I've tried everything, but nothing is working.

I'm just.... lost for words.

Same boat as well. I can **** about with the sliders all day, and my team just cant score. I have 3-5 clear cut chances, mainly 1v1, and they just hit it at the keeper.

[Bubsa]

I might just stick my neck out here and say that FM09 is a failure.

The match engine leaves a lot to be desired and I'm often asking myself, how on earth did that happen?

And then, if I find a decent working tactic, with the constant reapply-ing of OIs, press conferences, slow game progression - it sucks any amount of fun left in the game.

[wwfan]

I feel like crying. Literally. 4 wins in 19 league games, 6 wins in a 25 games season so far.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I just don't. I've tried everything, but nothing is working.

I'm just.... lost for words.

A few people seem to have lost form post patch. One reason might be that it is more difficult and requiring better players to play a short passing game now, so those trying to play pretty football with average players might be getting penalised. My results actually improved slightly post patch as I found that my Attacking tactic was slightly more effective than previously. However, I found it slightly more difficult to see out tough games with SUS than previously and conceded one or two last minute equalisers that I wouldn't have expected to do previously. I'm currently in the BSP with a part-time squad, so things are difficult, and I'm using a longer ball, lower league adaptation of the tactics from the TT&F downloads. Finished 9th, which I was quite happy with given my squad.

Another thing that might have changed is the ability to keep morale high. I noticed that my overall levels of morale were slightly lower than they were pre-patch, which means good performances will be more difficult to come by. However, I don't see any fundamental tactical reason why people are struggling outside of perhaps the penalisation of poor teams trying to play good football and the change in morale.

[NepentheZ]

I guess you could be right. Each team I play with is lower league. I do try and play a short passing game, and perhaps my players are just too poor. My only argument to that would be that, the entire quality of the league is at about the same standard, so surely a short passing game is there to be played?

I'll try a few more direct, long ball tactics and see where it gets me.

[tiltman]

One reason might be that it is more difficult and requiring better players to play a short passing game now, so those trying to play pretty football with average players might be getting penalised.

Very true. I only play lower league and the players with low passing skills do a lot more errors now. Had to re-do a couple of tactics (short passing on own half has become risky stuff).

[The Gaffovski]

I guess you could be right. Each team I play with is lower league. I do try and play a short passing game, and perhaps my players are just too poor. My only argument to that would be that, the entire quality of the league is at about the same standard, so surely a short passing game is there to be played?

I'll try a few more direct, long ball tactics and see where it gets me.

I predict you will experience a major improvement. Please let us know how it goes.

I'm playing with Arsenal and nothing was working. Players seemed to have lost their intelligence. So I did the unthinkable, I tried direct and quick tempo (both just one click below maximum) and was amazed to see my team mixing it up like Barcelona stringing nice little short passes together???

Basically, short and mixed passing doesn't do what it's meant to do, and somehow direct passing now makes my team play attractive and effective football.

Is anyone who typically sticks to a short passing game willing to give this a go for a few games to see if it happens to you as well?

[Curuedhel]

Yes, like many people I've suffered a similar 'flick of a switch' slump from winning to losing in 9.0.2 using a home-made TT&F style tactic which was working beautifully.

Main problems seem to be a general lack of intelligence from some of my top class players - as though their concentration is bottoming out even though they have a good stat and are not overly tired. Passes are going flying wild, many players simply stand and watch the ball, and about 95% of the time in on-on-one situations my strikers just whack the ball straight at the keeper. I've also had a few instances where players have literally dribbled the ball out of play when no-one has been near them to pressure.

Wish I could go back

[NepentheZ]

Just to let you guys know, as I'm writing this post, I'm currently in a game with my new "long ball" style tactic. Obviously, I don't expect it to work that well instantly, because the team need time to get used to another tactic, but I'll let you know how I get on ...

I lost 1-0 at home. I only had 4 shots, and that annoys me. My target man made 11 of 16 headers, which is pretty good, but the guy who is supposed to be my "fast striker" had 12 attempts at headers, and only managed to succeed with 1. Firstly, thats poor, but secondly, why is he having as many header attempts as the target man, when he's not set out for that? very odd. My team played poor, passing was only 54% and yet again, I've come up short

[pele10]

Same thing happened with my saved game. I had lost 3 league games in 3 seasons then installed the patch, won 1 drew 4 lost 7 shocked. I must admit I won my first game but my team didn't look like the team or the tactic I had spent ten's of hours perfecting.

I don't know whether I can motivate myself, to keep testing for hours again, to get my tactics right, for another patch comes out to kill my tactic again.

[Richard76]

I'm struggling with the new patch as well.

I was doing very well as Leicester. Won league 1 in my 1st season and was riding high in the championship in my 2nd season. Finished 5th and made the playoffs using a direct/quick style and keeping the ball well with a 4 1 4 1 formation.

Then I installed the patch. Both my playoff semi finals against Hull I managed less then 40% posession and my passing was dreadful.

Still struggling at the start of my 3rd season.

I'm following the tactical frameworks. Staggered mentality with no gaps. Low cf and closing down for my CB's, FB's & DMC. Slightly higher closing down and cf for my MC(d) and slightly higher again for my MC(a). ML & R slightly higher closing down and cf and slightly higher again for my striker.

I still struggle to keep the ball but my defence is looking a lot more solid.

My strikers still struggle to finish 1 on 1's.

[mag man]

Nep, I dont know if you've tried this but I find that by having attacking fullbacks set to cross from by-line who support your wingers you get a lot more crosses coming into the box. My last 4 or 5 seasons running the fullbacks have had most assists.

[Scott1990]

Having real problems holding leads here, pretty much all my results are 2-2, 3-4 etc. The AI always finds a wide open winger who crosses it in and an unmarked player always runs on to the cross and scores. How do I prevent this?

BTW, a tip. Put your defensive line the farthest back as possible and it seems to prevent most of the 1v1s. The downside is that there's a lot of space between your defense and your midfield so I use 2 DMs (1 CM, 2 AM, 1 ST) as a link-up. Like I said, no problems with scoring here, but I don't think I'll ever get a clean sheet.

[wwfan]

Tis all very interesting. There was genuine concern in the Beta that 9.2.0 might be too easy. I guess not.

One thing I would advise, for all of you, is to reconceptualise passing as a range instruction. Thus, a player with direct passing will look to make passes to all players with in range of the pass, be they close or far away. Short passing forces the short ball and thus requires exceptionally good players to make it work. If the whole team is on short passing, attacks will often peter out as nobody is going to play the kliller pass. Short passing is best use as a base, in that the players you are giving the insturction to have the job to keep possession rather than do anything exciting with the ball. For counter-atatcking tactics, the forwards main job is to keep the ball until support arrives, so short passing is good for them. For atacking tactics, the DCs need to recycle possession so short passing is good for them. The mdifield is always somewhere in between.

[moj]

Tis all very interesting. There was genuine concern in the Beta that 9.2.0 might be too easy. I guess not.

One thing I would advise, for all of you, is to reconceptualise passing as a range instruction. Thus, a player with direct passing will look to make passes to all players with in range of the pass, be they close or far away. Short passing forces the short ball and thus requires exceptionally good players to make it work. If the whole team is on short passing, attacks will often peter out as nobody is going to play the kliller pass. Short passing is best use as a base, in that the players you are giving the insturction to have the job to keep possession rather than do anything exciting with the ball. For counter-atatcking tactics, the forwards main job is to keep the ball until support arrives, so short passing is good for them. For atacking tactics, the DCs need to recycle possession so short passing is good for them. The mdifield is always somewhere in between.

The only difference I can see clearly is that Vela seems to score a lot more goals for me, he's not shooting from long range anymore, seems to be using that Places Shot ppm a lot more now, weird what 1 patch can do..

EDIT: Just noticed the passing has changed a bit. It just seems different.

[The Gaffovski]

I've made all my players close down to the same level of their mentality. Now I have 17 wins in a row. I didn't particularly want to give my DMC a lower level of closing down, nor my attackers a higher one, but funnily enough it's helping the team. Full-backs are actually tackling now.

[Keanos Grey Beard]

Evening !

This is my first post on the board and it coincides with the 9.2 patch going onto my game ! Finished 10th in my 1st season with Sunderland people have done loads better but was fine for me signed 3/4 players so and there isn't an issue with the team gelling and an early game in the season is against Man Utd which I admit i'm playing again and again trying different things and different tactics but no matter what I do it seems they score at will with their 1st attack and they then score another 2,3,4 goals ater that.

Using a tactic with which I beat them in the 1st season i'm gettin hammerred and I'm another one who was enjoying the game before the patch and was gettin in to it and now i'm hating it.

I'm currently trying the Knap 442 tactic, confidence, moral etc is good team includes decent players Leo, Anderson Martin, Carioca, Fleck, Wijnladum and Keirrison among them but the 1st attack from Man Utd is always a goal and I can't figure that out !

Anyone have any idea's ?

[knap]

Keanos

I have a number of tactics which may be more suitable PM me if you need a few ideas, but be aware that the Attacking midfield player is on left with no runs and box to box DM on right.

[Mitja]

if you continued the save just start a new one. it solved all problems for me... totally different ME.

[Mitja]

Tis all very interesting. There was genuine concern in the Beta that 9.2.0 might be too easy. I guess not.

One thing I would advise, for all of you, is to reconceptualise passing as a range instruction. Thus, a player with direct passing will look to make passes to all players with in range of the pass, be they close or far away. Short passing forces the short ball and thus requires exceptionally good players to make it work. If the whole team is on short passing, attacks will often peter out as nobody is going to play the kliller pass. Short passing is best use as a base, in that the players you are giving the insturction to have the job to keep possession rather than do anything exciting with the ball. For counter-atatcking tactics, the forwards main job is to keep the ball until support arrives, so short passing is good for them. For atacking tactics, the DCs need to recycle possession so short passing is good for them. The mdifield is always somewhere in between.

that's something i noticed too. also i noticed passing's linked to and tempo and mentality even more. having in mind passing as range instruction, it seems it's quite possible to play slow, posession style with long passing instructions, or if you want to play agressive/direct football all 3 sliders need to be high. i really like this change. as a metter of fact it looks like almost all sliders were tweaked a lot. so if there's anything alse you could share with us, don't be afraid

[NepentheZ]

I've tried everything. 7 more games, 0 more wins. I'm lost on this. I'm seriously considering giving up and having to restart my game on the 9.0.1 patch, because this is just hell.

[knap]

Have you tried a simple global team tactic and then as a first step add closing down?

[Big H]

So chaps, what's the consensus, do you wish you had stayed with 9.01? I have 9.02.exe sitting here ready to go, but seriously considering sticking with 9.01 after spending so much time working on my tactics. What do you think?

[Richard76]

Tis all very interesting. There was genuine concern in the Beta that 9.2.0 might be too easy. I guess not.

One thing I would advise, for all of you, is to reconceptualise passing as a range instruction. Thus, a player with direct passing will look to make passes to all players with in range of the pass, be they close or far away. Short passing forces the short ball and thus requires exceptionally good players to make it work. If the whole team is on short passing, attacks will often peter out as nobody is going to play the kliller pass. Short passing is best use as a base, in that the players you are giving the insturction to have the job to keep possession rather than do anything exciting with the ball. For counter-atatcking tactics, the forwards main job is to keep the ball until support arrives, so short passing is good for them. For atacking tactics, the DCs need to recycle possession so short passing is good for them. The mdifield is always somewhere in between.

So you definatly recommend defenders on direct passing, midfield on mixed and strikers on short instructions as per the excellent document you made??

The reason I ask is I'm reluctant to do this. I've had great success with global passing with all the previous FM games. I try to start with mixed passing/normal tempo. If we're not keeping the ball I go a bit shorter. If I'm chasing the game or drawing in the last 15 mins I go quick/direct and if I'm defending a lead I go short/slow with narrow width.

This was my plan B and C.

If I have mixed passing instructions I'm not sure how I can chase a game or hold out for a win against the inevitible and now tiresome AI 4 2 4.

[Support Monkey]

9.2 has also affected me tactically, but only away from home?

I'm playing as Dorchester, won promotion in 1st year with about a 12 point gap.

Installed 9.2 patch about just before 1st BSP fixture in 2nd season.

Home form is good as ever - P9 W8 D1 L0

Away form, I just can't buy a win - P10 W0 D8 L2

This see's me 3rd in the table.

I would say tactically I'm fairly capable. I use a set of 442 tactics I've designed myself. 3 variations in style which I select & tweak depending on the oppostion.

Even though I am struggling away I am still doing very well considering I'm predicted 24th & I'm severe underdogs in most away matches.

I'll get there eventually, but my point is that if I'm struggling to do well post-patch I can imagine there are many others who will be "hanging up their boots"/buying new keyboards/mice/monitors etc!!

[Bluebeard]

My first game post-patch was Barcelona away. I won 2-1 - heh.

4 league games since then - 2W, 2D - though the draws both came after I'd won the league.

The main change I've noticed is that through balls are much more effective and strikers get behind easily now. Drop those d-lines, people!

[ham_aka_stam]

9.2 has also affected me tactically, but only away from home?

I'm playing as Dorchester, won promotion in 1st year with about a 12 point gap.

Installed 9.2 patch about just before 1st BSP fixture in 2nd season.

Home form is good as ever - P9 W8 D1 L0

Away form, I just can't buy a win - P10 W0 D8 L2

This see's me 3rd in the table.

I would say tactically I'm fairly capable. I use a set of 442 tactics I've designed myself. 3 variations in style which I select & tweak depending on the oppostion.

Even though I am struggling away I am still doing very well considering I'm predicted 24th & I'm severe underdogs in most away matches.

I'll get there eventually, but my point is that if I'm struggling to do well post-patch I can imagine there are many others who will be "hanging up their boots"/buying new keyboards/mice/monitors etc!!

If you are predicted 24th and winning almost all your home games and drawing most of your away games i'd say you're doing fantastically, keep at it, impress the board and get more funds for next season. But beware you may need to change the tactic when you become even faves for games!

[Support Monkey]

If you are predicted 24th and winning almost all your home games and drawing most of your away games i'd say you're doing fantastically, keep at it, impress the board and get more funds for next season. But beware you may need to change the tactic when you become even faves for games!

I know the team are performing fantastically (mostly under 22 years old with the odd late 20's/early 30's player for experience).

I guess I'm basically saying the patch seems to have made the game MORE realistic for me than anything. In all previous version of CM/FM I've been able to take pretty much any team & create a set of tactics for the players available & get them promoted back to back. I usually get bored after a few seasons though.

Post patch I'm finding it more challenging, having to tweak tactics more to get something out of a game.

I'm finding myself urging me little 3D dudes to push on or drop back. My FM excitement levels are almost back to 01/02 levels....almost!! The wife however thinks I'm going a little mental... :-0

[boywonder9]

I agree, the new patch has totally ruined my tactic too.

Ditto. I started a new save game, changed my tactics, and am back to being a good team again.

In my previous save game I had won two league titles and a cup, moving from BSP to League 1, in 3 seasons. In year 3 I finished 3rd place in League 1 and lost in promotion playoffs. My whole team would be good players in Championship or lower Premier League. I had a stacked team, picked as the bookies pre-season favorites to win League 1...and was stuck in mid-table obscurity halfway through the ensuing season. Based on all my scouting there was no question I had the best team in the league, so I knew my tactics were wrong. But they were the same tactics that had made me dominate most competition for 3 years. Patch broke my tactics...

[JonathanDeGuzman]

The same problem here. I've won the double in Slovenia two times in a row with Maribor. I've been by far the best team of the league, but since the new patch i am the complete opposite. After 17 matches in the league i am 6th (of 10) Already 15 points behind the number 1. I don't understand.. i've been using this tactic the last 3 FM's en they always did wel.. And as said also for FM09, untill that 902 patch arrived.

I've put so ****ing many hours in these game en suddenly it's totally ****ed. I don't know what to do either.

[iamjerome]

high creative freedom is somewhat essential (and of course, creative players) to make short passing blissful.

[Andrej 505]

if you continued the save just start a new one. it solved all problems for me... totally different ME.

is it realy that different? i have also big problems in my tactic after 9.2 patch, just not working anymore

its realy better in new game?