SI are becoming a joke

[Wakers]

This is a problem that i slowly killing all 'pc' games - if you want to create a consol game you have to test it on between 1-3 systems.

IF you create a pc game people expect you to test it on 100,000 different configurations.

This isnt me saying that SI have done all they should, I just dont know, but it is so hard to make sure the game will run for everyone as it should, when people have their systems set up differently.

Major exaggeration there. There's a difference between 30 machines and 100,000.

Also, that didn't explain the problem with the Macs - they have standard components and configurations.

[townley12inch]

Major exaggeration there. There's a difference between 30 machines and 100,000.

Also, that didn't explain the problem with the Macs - they have standard components and configurations.

i will admit i was a mac user but bought a pc cause football manager runs alot smoother on it but i didnt sell out macs completely i st8ll use it all the time usually for creating graphics for my football manager lol or signatures for my forums lol

[Maidel]

Major exaggeration there. There's a difference between 30 machines and 100,000.

Also, that didn't explain the problem with the Macs - they have standard components and configurations.

Not entirely an exaggeration - sure they should test it on 30 or so machines - but there are 1000s of ways something wont work.

EG - i can think of at least 30 graphics cards (just flicking through a pc mag will show you 20-30 different ones on offer) and I can think of 10-15 intel chip sets.

So - thats 200-450 different combinations right there.

Now include all the chipsets and opperating systems and graphics cards from the last 5-6 years - that is litterally 100,000s of different combinations, all of which might have an issue or might not have an issue.

In the most part they do test LOTS of different computer systems, but there are so many combinations that they cant test all of them.

As for the macs - yea - you have a point there.

[Leclercq]

fifa has been known to crash so dont bail in all high an mighty. i agree and understand where your coming from but as football manager buyers we have learnt to accept this every year doesnt stop people playin...or moaning for that matter

Of course it's been known to crash. So has PES, Oblivion, GTA, whatever. Every game has it's crashes. Many games don't crash at the same point or prevent you from going in a certain mode to avoid it. We shouldn't have to accept such crap. This is why we won't have a decent game from the beginning and why people won't stop moaning because a percentage are blinded.

I never understand why people say 'xxx game is so much better' or 'xxx doesnt crash all the time.

I dont go to the other management game forums because I read reviews, buy the game i want and go with it. Sure if its crap, ill buy a different one next year. But I still wont go to the other website and say XXX is so much better.

Ill be too busy playing the damn game if its so good, rather than bitching that something isnt as good!

Yet you're hear defending the game instead of playing it. The same time you're using here to defend, we moan. Oh, and I would fathom that people will go on a website and complain because they are disappointed with the product, and quite rightly so. We haven't come on here to soley point eveyone else in the direction of another game. Unbelievably, other people have purchased two rival games, like PES and FIFA, and being a fan of one, will naturally complain when it isn't up to standard of another by going on their site and stating problems. It really isn't a hard concept to understand.

[Maidel]

Yet you're hear defending the game instead of playing it. The same time you're using here to defend, we moan. Oh, and I would fathom that people will go on a website and complain because they are disappointed with the product, and quite rightly so. We haven't come on here to soley point eveyone else in the direction of another game. Unbelievably, other people have purchased two rival games, like PES and FIFA, and being a fan of one, will naturally complain when it isn't up to standard of another by going on their site and stating problems. It really isn't a hard concept to understand.

Strangely enough - I have a wide screen monitor with FM on windowed mode - so i can be in two place at once! If my mother could see me now, she always told me to learn to multi task!

Maybe it just me - if I like a product - i play it. If I dont like a product, i dont play it. I dont go round bitching that one is better than the other, im far too busy playing the one i like to worry about the ones i dont like.

[townley12inch]

its my bed times boys enjoy slagging a game cant stop palying lol

[GavinZac]

Yet you're hear defending the game instead of playing it. The same time you're using here to defend, we moan.

As someone who used computers back when they only did one thing at a time, I must say I really appreciate today's technology

[townley12inch]

bed time for me good night fellas enjoy ur arguments

[Leclercq]

Maybe it just me - if I like a product - i play it. If I dont like a product, i dont play it. I dont go round bitching that one is better than the other, im far too busy playing the one i like to worry about the ones i dont like.

Fair enough you don't want to go around moaning, but other people feel very strongly about a game and don't want to see what was once a great game go down the pan due to lazyness. It's much the same with many people. They don't like FM09 currently, so don't play it, but some can't return it so have wasted money and this is why they come on here to moan. It has such potential and is being wasted/destroyed due to incompetence and at the same time, is bumping customers because a blatantly unreleased/untested game is being sold for full whack.

Strangely enough - I have a wide screen monitor with FM on windowed mode - so i can be in two place at once! If my mother could see me now, she always told me to learn to multi task!

As someone who used computers back when they only did one thing at a time, I must say I really appreciate today's technology

Erm, what? The original point was:

Ill be too busy playing the damn game if its so good, rather than bitching that something isnt as good!

He's implying that he has no time to moan because he is having so much fun. But somehow he finds the time to defend the game and play at the same time. In the same time he is defending the game, he could use that time to moan, which is what others are doing. It really wasn't as clear cut as he tried to make it out to be.

[GavinZac]

He's implying that he has no time to moan because he is having so much fun. But somehow he finds the time to defend the game and play at the same time. In the same time he is defending the game, he could use that time to moan, which is what others are doing. It really wasn't as clear cut as he tried to make it out to be.

He was (quite clearly, I'd have thought) talking about people saying FIFAM or CM are much better, on an FM website; which seems utterly pointless to me, it doesn't even have the merit of being well-intentioned.

[Leclercq]

He was (quite clearly, I'd have thought) talking about people saying FIFAM or CM are much better, on an FM website; which seems utterly pointless to me, it doesn't even have the merit of being well-intentioned.

Yes that part is quite clear and I responded by saying :

We haven't come on here to soley point eveyone else in the direction of another game. Unbelievably, other people have purchased two rival games, like PES and FIFA, and being a fan of one, will naturally complain when it isn't up to standard of another by going on their site and stating problems.

The last line is clearly there to emphasise his point but it doesn't hold much water. He's saying he can enjoy a game too much, which would make too busy to moan about other games, but yet he's here defending it, which consumes the same amount of time. So in reality, he is wasting just as much time as anyone else and well...therefore he must not be enjoying the game as much as he says he is.

[T4RG4]

My old work-mate works on CM. He's very good... but I am quite sure they are still far too behind FM to make a difference

FM is excellent. They just need to hire a designer.

[DougyMarshall]

Or play with dual core machines on vista..freezes all the time..

I found it funny he made a list of three points and all of them had an exception.

Thats funny because im running a dual core E8500 and Vista.

Im currently half way through the 2011/2012 season and ive not had any "freezes all the time.."

Not that im defending SI, i dont need to... but im not going to sit and let you post complete tripe and try to pass it off as factual.

[N^G]

Standards in new game releases these days are detetiorating pretty quickly. I've bought a few games in the last couple of months that have crippling issues with them:

Football Manager 09: Serie C problem means that I cannot start a career game properly until this is fixed.

Fallout 3: Game crashes constantly indoors because my frame rate is too high (?!!!).

Fable 2: Game becomes uncompleteable if I don't listen to some NPC finish his conversation fully.

Far Cry 2: Problem (Memory leak?) that causes the game to start stuttering badly after a couple of hours play, no sign of any sort of patch coming from Ubisoft as far as I can see.

Dead Space: Played this game for an hour and almost died of boredom (OK this is not necessarily a bug ).

In my opinion, quality control has certainly hit rock bottom within the games industry, and FM is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Sloppy Giuseppe]

This a well thought out, original thread and contributes much to our community. Thank you.

He paid his money and has a right to air his opinion. If you can't post without using a smug and arrogant tone then don't bother replying at all.

I agree with the points raised by the original poster.

[Spagbol]

There's no "no thanks" about it, those are the forum rules you agreed to when you signed up.

Didn't everyone know this? You're not allowed to complain about SI and you have to accuse everyone who has a problem of:

A) Having a lower level of intelligence

B) Having a pirated copy of the game

C) Something misogynistic about women/non-whites/etc

[sthptngomad76]

Wakers you are my FM forum hero. Thank God we have people actually stirring the pot a little and not just accepting the mediocrity and back-slapping I see here too often. KUTGW

[Glyn]

Keep to the issues and quit the personal squabbling or the thread gets closed.

[Kewell08]

Just close it anyway. The guy already thinks SI don't care, closing his useless thread won't make any difference.

[DanGLiverpool]

Every year you have the people who only come here to complain, because their game doesn't give them the wet dreams that they want it to. As for mod wannabes, I feel it is nice to see people trying to help the site out, and they get jumped on. Wrong. Anyway, SI is not a joke, the bigger jokes are the people who consistently use the same argument. Getting old. At least they do try to help, no one is perfect.

[Dicko99]

Every year you have the people who only come here to complain, because their game doesn't give them the wet dreams that they want it to. As for mod wannabes, I feel it is nice to see people trying to help the site out, and they get jumped on. Wrong. Anyway, SI is not a joke, the bigger jokes are the people who consistently use the same argument. Getting old. At least they do try to help, no one is perfect.

everyone cannot praise the game, (especially with the state its in), people who spend there hard earned money have a right to be critical when they buy the game in november and its not playble til december(we hope).

[baker.simon]

Just close it anyway. The guy already thinks SI don't care, closing his useless thread won't make any difference.

Here here, after trying to put across my opinion last night it resulted in me recieving personal attacks about my intelligence! Not bothered personally, just think he is rude and arrogant!

[baker.simon]

Every year you have the people who only come here to complain, because their game doesn't give them the wet dreams that they want it to. As for mod wannabes, I feel it is nice to see people trying to help the site out, and they get jumped on. Wrong. Anyway, SI is not a joke, the bigger jokes are the people who consistently use the same argument. Getting old. At least they do try to help, no one is perfect.

Thanks mate, although not sure i would like to be a mod! Infractions for everyone lol!

[Michael Osmann]

Cant understand why second patch isn't released yet. Bought the game on release day but haven't could play as it freezes alle the time at the beginning

[r0x0r]

While I'm usually one of SI's biggest supporters, I have to say the decision to hold back the C1/2 fix for the second patch rather than issue a quickfix is quite simply mind boggling. This is a major total game crash that's unavoidable, and hits anyone that's running some of the most popular leagues in game game. I'm personally quite lucky that in the games I have running at the moment I only took the top 2 divisions from the other big countries other than England.

[baker.simon]

Cant understand why second patch isn't released yet. Bought the game on release day but haven't could play as it freezes alle the time at the beginning

Its because the first patch on release day would have only fixed certain things, and threw up some different things. These new problems needed to go through the same process of testing/fixing as the first patch! At least we havn't got to wait for Feb like usual.

[Bongo-Bongo]

Standards in new game releases these days are detetiorating pretty quickly. I've bought a few games in the last couple of months that have crippling issues with them:

Football Manager 09: Serie C problem means that I cannot start a career game properly until this is fixed.

Fallout 3: Game crashes constantly indoors because my frame rate is too high (?!!!).

Fable 2: Game becomes uncompleteable if I don't listen to some NPC finish his conversation fully.

Far Cry 2: Problem (Memory leak?) that causes the game to start stuttering badly after a couple of hours play, no sign of any sort of patch coming from Ubisoft as far as I can see.

Dead Space: Played this game for an hour and almost died of boredom (OK this is not necessarily a bug ).

In my opinion, quality control has certainly hit rock bottom within the games industry, and FM is only the tip of the iceberg.

You've hit the nail on the head. The PC gaming industry has been like this for a long time, and with consoles having online capabilities now, the need for patches has crept in here. And I can only see things getting worse.

Thinking back to many PC games I have played, it's clear to me that SI are certainly one of the better companies both in terms of the quality of the release and support after that. Yes there have been bugs that should never of been allowed to get through (Serie C for example), but when I think back to Civ 4, it really does seem that bad. On release, a huge number of people couldn't even play the game, some, myself included, were lucky that with the first patch, this was resolved, but it took two before it was resolved by many. And it wasn't until the first expansion back that the dreadful lag problem that would occur with specs way above the recommended were resolved. And Champ Man 08 that never even saw a patch despite having several ridiculous bugs. The claim may be that this is to have a better product for 09, but I fell this is only a half truth and the real reason is so that the product isn't released at the same time of the competition so that it doesn't go unnoticed.

I can't remember the last time I have brought a PC game where I can honestly say that I've not seen the need for a patch, and sadly, I can't see this changing. The gaming industry has gotten away with it for too long IMO.

[baker.simon]

While I'm usually one of SI's biggest supporters, I have to say the decision to hold back the C1/2 fix for the second patch rather than issue a quickfix is quite simply mind boggling. This is a major total game crash that's unavoidable, and hits anyone that's running some of the most popular leagues in game game. I'm personally quite lucky that in the games I have running at the moment I only took the top 2 divisions from the other big countries other than England.

I agree, its not ideal, SI have held there hands up to it about certain issues being missed. But it is common knowledge and how to get around it is well documented, dont run that league! Which as i say is poor, but not game breaking!

[Celts1888]

I just found out my first file is likely to crash when it comes to the end of my 1st season because I have Serie C1 and C2 loaded in Italy, what the hell is the point of me continuing just to risk the game crashing and me wasting my time? And whats the point in me starting yet another file on this bug-ridden game?

I can't believe SI get away with putting out a piece of crap like this, there should be some industry standard game checks to make sure companies cant get away with compeltely ripping off their customers by releasing half-arsed games EVERY YEAR. Yeah sure they may release a couple of patches, but they never even tidy the game enough as they are.

And then we always hope that next year will bring something better, but while they're faffing around putting stupid advertising boards onto the laughable 3D match rendition they're completely ignoring the fundamental of what the game is written on and putting out a game that looks like it shouldn't even be in beta testing stages

I can go and pick up a copy of Fifa 09 for 30 quid, so why do you charge so much money for a product that is nowhere near finished? I'm not comparing the 2 as games, but rather quality in production for value of money.

I think what Champ Manager are doing is what FM should look to do next year, postpone the game a whole season if you have to and deliver us something worth the money.. stop giving us half-arsed pieces of rubbish that aren't even worth playing for free nevermind 30 quid.

I seriously hope CM is something special just to give SI a kick up the backside and stop relying on being "the greatest" as its apparent they've become overconfident and complacent

Thanks for the rant like we really needed another one, who gives a s**t.

[Bongo-Bongo]

While I'm usually one of SI's biggest supporters, I have to say the decision to hold back the C1/2 fix for the second patch rather than issue a quickfix is quite simply mind boggling. This is a major total game crash that's unavoidable, and hits anyone that's running some of the most popular leagues in game game. I'm personally quite lucky that in the games I have running at the moment I only took the top 2 divisions from the other big countries other than England.

I completely agree. Something that does render a game unplayable like this should have a hot fix released ASAP, and I thinkwith this, SI really messed up with their normally good after sales support. Other issues such as poor strikers or too many shots hitting the bar are frustrating, but they don't make the game unplayable so waiting for a patch for them to be fixed isn't too bad, but the Serie C bug does si it really should have been sorted quickly and why it wasn't just doesn't make sense.

[Bongo-Bongo]

I agree, its not ideal, SI have held there hands up to it about certain issues being missed. But it is common knowledge and how to get around it is well documented, dont run that league! Which as i say is poor, but not game breaking!

So what about those who had already started the their game with this league only to find they can't continue, or those who don't visit the forums? We're only a small percentage of the total number of people playing the game. Saying not to run the league is not an acceptable resolution for something so serious.

[roykela]

Thats funny because im running a dual core E8500 and Vista.

Im currently half way through the 2011/2012 season and ive not had any "freezes all the time.."

Not that im defending SI, i dont need to... but im not going to sit and let you post complete tripe and try to pass it off as factual.

You should try my brand new quad. Check out my posts and you will see some problems with it.

[Glyn]

So what about those who had already started the their game with this league only to find they can't continue, or those who don't visit the forums? We're only a small percentage of the total number of people playing the game. Saying not to run the league is not an acceptable resolution for something so serious.

Hopefully, they will still be able to use their last savegame after the next patch has been released. In the meantime, they can play a different league set-up. I know it's not ideal, but there's no real reason to call the bug gamebreaking. If it was, you wouldn't be able to play the game at all.

[50tna05]

Well the opener i think is talking about what I am having trouble with i was playing with all leauges from Spain Italy and England then after my first seson i got offerd job at Fisher then i played 3 friendlys and straight after the third one the game says a serious error has occured is this the dreaded serie c bug (it happend on july 24th and i thought untill now that it was august 24th) because i am really peed og as i managed to get fisher promoted and i tell you it is nooo easy feet any replies/ suggestions/answers will be fully appricieated

[roykela]

Hopefully, they will still be able to use their last savegame after the next patch has been released. In the meantime, they can play a different league set-up. I know it's not ideal, but there's no real reason to call the bug gamebreaking. If it was, you wouldn't be able to play the game at all.

That will help us who are on the forums here, but what about those who aren't? Sadly they just have to live with it then.

I'm just saying it, because i know how long it took me to register for this community, as i didn't have any interest of it. I just wanted to play the game and be happy with it. If the game crashed then i would load it up again and play it all over again. If it would keep on crashing again then i would put the game on the shelf and never play it again. No idea what a patch was.

Thankfully i know what it is now.

[iamjerome]

look, the reason the serie C bug is so frustrating is that it happens AFTER a whole season has finished. i'm sure you can all relate and sympathise with any of us who have painfully experienced it to realise that the HOURS you've spent toiling on the game getting attached to a team you're slowly moulding together only for it to be ripped to shreds because you've got to wait another whole month before the POSSIBILITY that the next patch might be save game compatible!

it's absolutely infuriating. how can any of you say it is NOT gamebreaking? surely anyone who signs up to post on these forums is a fully addicted / loved up FM gamer who realises that your one game is your ONLY game that you can't help yourself emotionally invest in? yes, of course it sounds pathetic to care about a simulated team so much but that is the only reason this game is so tantalising. and to have that taken away from you is breaking the game.

aside from this, i'm not sure why exactly so many of you feel the need to defend SI with the line of thought that they might be lacklustre in their efforts to iron out bugs, but they are on the same relative level for it as other gaming companies - so what? are we to expect poor standards then? i mean, i've played several games now on FM09 and with 5-6 friends of mine in MP games who've also got the game and not one of us have not come across the basic issues you see every match more or less eg: man city's idiocy, cross bar, goalkeeper long balls, defenders forgetting the ability to tackle, the insane amount of defender/goalkeeper mistakes (it just does not happen as much in the top levels of the game) and none of us struggle with the game in terms of success either. these things you just notice if you pay a little bit of attention whilst casually playing the game, so then how have SI missed them ALL?

[googoo56]

They don't give a s.hit, that's how they missed... Sadly...

[Wakers]

Thats funny because im running a dual core E8500 and Vista.

Im currently half way through the 2011/2012 season and ive not had any "freezes all the time.."

Not that im defending SI, i dont need to... but im not going to sit and let you post complete tripe and try to pass it off as factual.

Firstly, i said it happens on a lot of multi-core machines running vista, not all of them. Just check out the freezing thread, there's 5 pages (almost 300 posts) of people having this problem.

[Dicko99]

They don't give a s.hit, that's how they missed... Sadly...

i think they do care they just need a new testing system or more competent testers

[jayahr]

Anymore delusional fanboys with sarcastic comments can keep to themselves, I don't care what you have to say

In all honesty, I think then you don't deserve anyone else to care about what you think as well

If you want to enter any kind of meaningful conversation about anything you will have to pay attention to the fact the word 'dialogue' somehow implies a second person contributing to the conversation too. If you come on here only to get praise for your opinion, which is not even founded by any kind of concrete content, then you were very likely to be disappointed.

Those basic rules are something you might want to consider before coming back.

[roykela]

i think they do care they just need a new testing system or more competent testers

I woud also say that they do care, but it seems like they're too busy implementing new features so they forget about the old bugs that always has been there.

I mean; there's no point making the house bigger and better if you don't clean up all the mess and rubble that comes from making it bigger (bad analogy, i know. but i hope you get the point)

Serie C bug i never had a problem with until 2 days ago. After trying and trying i managed to start a game with all european leagues running. Only to find out, after several hours, that it crashed. Guess when....