Central defenders leaving space behind them

[Ghost77]

Hi guys,

I am trying to find out what is causing my defenders to go up without a ball and leave a large space behind them. I am doing  a Nottingham Forest save with a balanced tactic which is working quite well otherwise, but about 70-80% of my conceded goals are from through balls like this below. 

In the picture you can see the whole line-up of my team in defensive position (red kits). My defensive line is in red circles a you can clearly see my central defender run forward to Mitrović and leave ridiculous space behind. Mitrović passed the ball to the space and Cavaleiro scored from the left wing. 

I play on positive with lower d-line and personal instruction for central defenders to close down less. No higher line of engagement, no added trigger press. Yet this happens in my matches too often. Here is my tactic. Do you have any idea what am I doing wrong? 

Cheers!

[fraudiola]

CBs are magnets to strikers in the game. was he marking the striker then ended up just following the striker way out of position? its even worse if your CB has marks tightly PPM. 

[Ghost77]

1 minute ago, fraudiola said:

CBs are magnets to strikers in the game. was he marking the striker then ended up just following the striker way out of position? its even worse if your CB has marks tightly PPM. 

Yes, he followed him up from the central defence.. but he doesn't have marks tightly PPM. I don't know what is causing that.

[fraudiola]

1 minute ago, Ghost77 said:

Yes, he followed him up from the central defence.. but he doesn't have marks tightly PPM. I don't know what is causing that.

even without mark tightly CBs will do that for some reason, its just way worse with that PPM. 

[branco2511]

Are you using OI's to always press/ tightly mark the strikers? That could cause that behavior from your CD. 

[Ghost77]

10 minutes ago, branco2511 said:

Are you using OI's to always press/ tightly mark the strikers? That could cause that behavior from your CD. 

Did in a few matches, but this behaviour is occuring even when not used. 

[fraudiola]

59 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

Did in a few matches, but this behaviour is occuring even when not used. 

just live with it, i made a post a while back and didn't get much help from it. i had a CB on cover in a 3CB tactic and he frequently pushed forward to mark the ST and getting pulled in all sorts of directions with none of the other CBs coming across to intercept. 

 

       

[prched55]

4 hours ago, Ghost77 said:

I play on positive with lower d-line and personal instruction for central defenders to close down less. No higher line of engagement, no added trigger press. Yet this happens in my matches too often. Here is my tactic. Do you have any idea what am I doing wrong? 

From the looks of it, the AI executed a really nice overload on the right hand side which opened up space for that run and through ball. For from this screen shot, I would wonder if your DM is good enough and if your BBM is good enough. Mainly because your DM is out of position and not picking up that player and the BBM isn't dropping into that space to defend. Fulham is a good team for the Championship so it is important to pick the right players for the game. 

Also, with lower defensive line and the BWM in the DM strata, you're leaving lots of space in that area, which is a dangerous area to concede possession. Especially if your CMs and AMs aren't going to defend. Which from the text #12 passed the ball to Mitrovic and your LW if nowhere near #12. 

Another thing you could also do is have your DM mark the opposing CF that is dropping deep if the opponent is playing any system without a CAM. 

I play a similar system to you and I had this problem as well. It went away when I got better players in the DM spot and I always played a more defensive BBM against top teams. 

[Robson 07]

If not tight marking instructions then it could be buggy behaviour which you should report.  However I do agree with @prched55that a ball-winner DM is the wrong role in a tactic dropping its defensive line.  That role will close down and dive in meaning he could be positionally absent in a shape that is being vertically stretched.

[Ghost77]

1 hour ago, prched55 said:

From the looks of it, the AI executed a really nice overload on the right hand side which opened up space for that run and through ball. For from this screen shot, I would wonder if your DM is good enough and if your BBM is good enough. Mainly because your DM is out of position and not picking up that player and the BBM isn't dropping into that space to defend. Fulham is a good team for the Championship so it is important to pick the right players for the game. 

Also, with lower defensive line and the BWM in the DM strata, you're leaving lots of space in that area, which is a dangerous area to concede possession. Especially if your CMs and AMs aren't going to defend. Which from the text #12 passed the ball to Mitrovic and your LW if nowhere near #12. 

Another thing you could also do is have your DM mark the opposing CF that is dropping deep if the opponent is playing any system without a CAM. 

I play a similar system to you and I had this problem as well. It went away when I got better players in the DM spot and I always played a more defensive BBM against top teams. 

Thanks for your view! You are right, it was the #12 who passed the ball to Mitrović. But at that time Mitrović was near the defender, marked by him. The movement of the DM was good in my eyes. Problem was that the central defender went up with Mitrović and DM was just trying to move back and cover for him. Here you can see the movement of both. I think that central defender should give up on Mitrović and leave him for DM, who was in better position.

In other words, I think that if the defender stayed in the defence line, he would be in better position to cut off the final pass to Cavaleiro on their left wing and DM would press Mitrović instead.

Here is my DM, I think he is good enough for Championship. Positioning is 14, which should be also key in this situation.

And my box-to-box, also good enough in my eyes.

However I will think about the role of DM. Will probably change it to DM-D.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ghost77

[prched55]

2 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

The movement of the DM was good in my eyes.

We can agree to disagree. Haha. I think the DM should be parked right in front of the two CBs. From the screenshot it looks like he is being pulled out of the position so he can't cover for the deep dropping Mitrovic. I would want my DM to be where the end of your blue arrow is in the first screen shot. If Mitrovic drops deep, covered by DM. If the ball goes to who the DM was covering, then you have your DM and CB right there. Plus your CM is there too. 

Your players do look good. Are you winning games and such? Fulham is really good and they clearly had a wide overload on the right side which they used to score this goal. 

Looking at your DM, I would personally change the role to DM-de or Anchorman. Just because he'll hold that position in front of the CBs which will help the lower defensive line. But if you're winning games and stuff I wouldn't worry about it. I also sometimes tight mark the opposition wide players and CF if they keep doing this and that seems to work. 

[Ghost77]

1 hour ago, Robson 07 said:

If not tight marking instructions then it could be buggy behaviour which you should report.  However I do agree with @prched55that a ball-winner DM is the wrong role in a tactic dropping its defensive line.  That role will close down and dive in meaning he could be positionally absent in a shape that is being vertically stretched.

I'll try a few matches without OIs to be sure. Thanks for the DM role, I'll probably change to something more conservative.

[glengarry224]

I agree that these types of goals are frustrating.  Also agree with @fraudiola that the 'cover' duty often does not work the way I expect it to (maybe that's my problem).  But a few things I'll add:

• The 'Defensive Line' TI applies to when your opponents have the ball in their own half.  From the manual:
  • "This instructs the defenders as to how high they should position themselves when the opposition have the ball in their own half."
• As others have indicated here, players don't strictly follow rules. They are players who adjust to situations.  In that vein, your CB made a poor choice.  Why?  Maybe because, for the SBC, he has: poor decisions/concentration and below average anticipation/teamwork.  He is a strong, brave, jumper, not a positional defender.  Hard to say.

But you know his limitations and wanted him to play conservatively.  I agree that it's very difficult to do in this game.  irl, you would tell him:  "mark the striker closely when he's in your area of the box, but when he drifts deeper, leave him for the DM or just let him roam."  Balanced mentality would avoid these plays a bit more but at the cost of attacking, for sure.

[fraudiola]

I had a highly successful tactic that concede the exact same goal over and over. CB gets pulled way out following the ST, ball gets played behind, other 2 CB don't cover. But I played without a DM so you might have luck with the proper DM but I think it'll still trigger this weird pull when CB marks the ST

[Ghost77]

1 hour ago, prched55 said:

We can agree to disagree. Haha. I think the DM should be parked right in front of the two CBs. From the screenshot it looks like he is being pulled out of the position so he can't cover for the deep dropping Mitrovic. I would want my DM to be where the end of your blue arrow is in the first screen shot. If Mitrovic drops deep, covered by DM. If the ball goes to who the DM was covering, then you have your DM and CB right there. Plus your CM is there too. 

Your players do look good. Are you winning games and such? Fulham is really good and they clearly had a wide overload on the right side which they used to score this goal. 

Looking at your DM, I would personally change the role to DM-de or Anchorman. Just because he'll hold that position in front of the CBs which will help the lower defensive line. But if you're winning games and stuff I wouldn't worry about it. I also sometimes tight mark the opposition wide players and CF if they keep doing this and that seems to work. 

I see your point of view. If the DM was deeper in the first place, maybe the defender wouldn't come so high up to chase him. But my central defenders do that also in different situations. But I will probably change my DM to be deeper and more conservative, you are definitely right about that one. 

Otherwise I was winning at the start, but started to lose afterwards. Many even matches, I usually have more chances, higher xG, but am losing due to own goals and some 90+th minute goals... and players are down right now.. It seems the tactic isn't very productive in terms of goals generally, although it looked good in first few matches. 

I am obsessed with balanced tactics. Would you change my tactic somehow? I am curious

[prched55]

21 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

I am obsessed with balanced tactics. Would you change my tactic somehow? I am curious

I too am obsessed with balanced tactics. Haha

You really only have two players attacking the box and trying to score goals and both of their primary functions are as distributors (DLF and Winger). Depending on your personnel you could change the striker into a PF-att. I use that in my 433 and he still drops deep and connects play. I also use a Poacher sometimes too if I'm the "worse" team and will be counter attacking more. Also depending on personnel I would change my IW to an IF-att or change one of the midfielders to attack the box more. Like make the BBM a CMat. You should be fine with the DM and WB out there for defense.

Honestly, I was using tactics like you have now which is what I've done for every FM I've played. But I watched one of @Rashidi's videos and he mentioned how the match engine this year is better with having attacking duties defend more especially on balanced and standard to lower LOE. So I just went for it and have more attack duties and more roles that attack the box. I always stay on balanced and just control the intensity with the defensive lines, pressing triggers, and tempo. 

I also try to create more attacking patterns that work really well. You have an overlap/overload on the left. Quick one twos on the right with the BBM, Wat, and DLFat. I would honestly just change the BBM to a CMat. Yates will defend based on his attributes plus his trait should be godly since he'll be close to the box and the Winger. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by prched55
added more stuff

[Ghost77]

1 hour ago, prched55 said:

I too am obsessed with balanced tactics. Haha

You really only have two players attacking the box and trying to score goals and both of their primary functions are as distributors (DLF and Winger). Depending on your personnel you could change the striker into a PF-att. I use that in my 433 and he still drops deep and connects play. I also use a Poacher sometimes too if I'm the "worse" team and will be counter attacking more. Also depending on personnel I would change my IW to an IF-att or change one of the midfielders to attack the box more. Like make the BBM a CMat. You should be fine with the DM and WB out there for defense.

Honestly, I was using tactics like you have now which is what I've done for every FM I've played. But I watched one of @Rashidi's videos and he mentioned how the match engine this year is better with having attacking duties defend more especially on balanced and standard to lower LOE. So I just went for it and have more attack duties and more roles that attack the box. I always stay on balanced and just control the intensity with the defensive lines, pressing triggers, and tempo. 

I also try to create more attacking patterns that work really well. You have an overlap/overload on the left. Quick one twos on the right with the BBM, Wat, and DLFat. I would honestly just change the BBM to a CMat. Yates will defend based on his attributes plus his trait should be godly since he'll be close to the box and the Winger. 

Thanks for the input! I have always been very conservative with the attack roles as I wanted my players to be deeper and defend more naturally. But this year I see that it is probably not enough on balanced or positive.. not scoring enough, so maybe it's time to try to be more brave with these duties :-) 

Honestly, I wanted to have AP-A + BBM partnership in the middle, but I just don't have players for attack roles in the central midfield (Nottingham sold Joao Carvalho to Olympiakos IRL, he would be good for AP-A role), so I changed to RPM-S + BBM and it worked at first, but as you said there are only two outlets for scoring. FB-A on the left side is usually just crossing the ball to the mentioned attackers.. Hopefully Yates will cope with the attack duty.. I am mentally reluctant to put defensive minded players on attack duties for a long time, I have to get rid of it  

[Ghost77]

3 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

I agree that these types of goals are frustrating.  Also agree with @fraudiola that the 'cover' duty often does not work the way I expect it to (maybe that's my problem).  But a few things I'll add:

• The 'Defensive Line' TI applies to when your opponents have the ball in their own half.  From the manual:
  • "This instructs the defenders as to how high they should position themselves when the opposition have the ball in their own half."
• As others have indicated here, players don't strictly follow rules. They are players who adjust to situations.  In that vein, your CB made a poor choice.  Why?  Maybe because, for the SBC, he has: poor decisions/concentration and below average anticipation/teamwork.  He is a strong, brave, jumper, not a positional defender.  Hard to say.

But you know his limitations and wanted him to play conservatively.  I agree that it's very difficult to do in this game.  irl, you would tell him:  "mark the striker closely when he's in your area of the box, but when he drifts deeper, leave him for the DM or just let him roam."  Balanced mentality would avoid these plays a bit more but at the cost of attacking, for sure.

Yes, you are right, that was exactly my thinking behind that. But on balanced mentality it is very hard to score consistently with my system. Even on positive I started to lose 0:1 in too many matches. 

[Poison]

Do you use the "force opposition outside" option? Because to me it looks that your rb is not where it should be so as to not concede from a through ball. Also your cb has mediocre decisions rating, maybe it's a player thing.

[CaptCanuck]

Somewhere in the AI subforum, Fulham's AI manager has a thread where he breaks down how he is using overloads and a DLF-S/TM-S to create space for his left IW to break into the box and get goals, with this exact same passage of play

[glengarry224]

4 hours ago, Ghost77 said:

Yes, you are right, that was exactly my thinking behind that. But on balanced mentality it is very hard to score consistently with my system. Even on positive I started to lose 0:1 in too many matches. 

How far into the match did this happen?  How tired was your CB?  Definitely seems more like a mistake that tiring players - irl - make in the 2nd half, especially those with weaker concentration and decisions.  Having written that, it is a pretty stupid mistake and shouldn't happen very often with players at this level.  Sure, if your CB was in position and failed to see the cutting winger in time, that happens more often.  But following the striker out past your DM, how often do you see that?

I do see that you have really good tactical familiarity, which should keep this from happening much.

[Ghost77]

10 hours ago, Poison said:

Do you use the "force opposition outside" option? Because to me it looks that your rb is not where it should be so as to not concede from a through ball. Also your cb has mediocre decisions rating, maybe it's a player thing.

No, I used it in FM21 in every match to counter opposite wingers and their crosses, but I don't use that in FM22 as it invites to much pressure inside. Maybe it's the decision making of my CB, but I think he still good enough not to act crazy like that..

Edit: I misread the first time. You wrote outside. No, I don't use that neither.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Ghost77

[Ghost77]

9 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

Somewhere in the AI subforum, Fulham's AI manager has a thread where he breaks down how he is using overloads and a DLF-S/TM-S to create space for his left IW to break into the box and get goals, with this exact same passage of play

Haha, good one 

[Ghost77]

7 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

How far into the match did this happen?  How tired was your CB?  Definitely seems more like a mistake that tiring players - irl - make in the 2nd half, especially those with weaker concentration and decisions.  Having written that, it is a pretty stupid mistake and shouldn't happen very often with players at this level.  Sure, if your CB was in position and failed to see the cutting winger in time, that happens more often.  But following the striker out past your DM, how often do you see that?

I do see that you have really good tactical familiarity, which should keep this from happening much.

It actually happend in the 5th minute of the match. It was the first highlight after kick-off. I saw that almost in every match I played before the season and in 3 of 5 matches in the league afterwards. Sometimes I did put in opposition instruction to tight mark and close down their striker, but not in this particular match.

Yes, familiarity is good as I am usually playing more than 10 pre-season matches in my saves. Helps a lot. I am also obssesed with Team Bonding and Community Outreach, Match reviews etc. Yet still he acted like that. I have to figure this out and will probably start a new save with a new tactic as this one is not going good.

[CaptCanuck]

7 hours ago, Ghost77 said:

Haha, good one 

It was too easy to leave

To your tactic - have you played many matches after changing from a BWM? Agree with the others on that not being the best choice, as his tendency to go scurrying after shiny objects means the central pair will then need to make up for that. Think an anchorman would do very well in that position. I'm still on FM21 though, but anchorman as a shield and recycler has been one of the go-to roles for me when not playing a back 3.

It is always the right side they attack? We're focusing on your middle trio (CB x 2 + DM x 1) but what about your right WB? In the later screenshot he's in good position, but then falls asleep and gets skinned by their winger.

[glengarry224]

9 hours ago, Ghost77 said:

It actually happend in the 5th minute of the match. It was the first highlight after kick-off. I saw that almost in every match I played before the season and in 3 of 5 matches in the league afterwards. Sometimes I did put in opposition instruction to tight mark and close down their striker, but not in this particular match.

Yes, familiarity is good as I am usually playing more than 10 pre-season matches in my saves. Helps a lot. I am also obssesed with Team Bonding and Community Outreach, Match reviews etc. Yet still he acted like that. I have to figure this out and will probably start a new save with a new tactic as this one is not going good.

Yeah, this is a tough one.  Shouldn't be that hard to instruct slower, bigger defenders to just stay back without killing the aggression of the rest of your team.

[Ghost77]

4 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

It was too easy to leave

To your tactic - have you played many matches after changing from a BWM? Agree with the others on that not being the best choice, as his tendency to go scurrying after shiny objects means the central pair will then need to make up for that. Think an anchorman would do very well in that position. I'm still on FM21 though, but anchorman as a shield and recycler has been one of the go-to roles for me when not playing a back 3.

It is always the right side they attack? We're focusing on your middle trio (CB x 2 + DM x 1) but what about your right WB? In the later screenshot he's in good position, but then falls asleep and gets skinned by their winger.

Yes, I officialy ditched the save, but played more matches in it with a tweaked tactic to see how it copes. Changed BWM-D to DM-D (for now), DLF-A to PF-A and BBM-S to CM-A. Not lost a match after these changes. Defensive midfielder is generally deeper and tactic average positions look really good/balanced with no weak spots at first sight.

Regarding my right WB. It is Djed Spence. He is very good in attack, but not very good at defending yet. His attributes need a few seasons, he will become more complex, but now he is a risk. My second choice Richie Laryea isn't any better, though.

[Ghost77]

2 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

Yeah, this is a tough one.  Shouldn't be that hard to instruct slower, bigger defenders to just stay back without killing the aggression of the rest of your team.

After a few changes the tactic looks good. Also changed BWM-D to DM-D and central defenders seem to be behaving now. Maybe it was because of the interaction with BMW-D, maybe just a few crazy matches with him being out of his mind.. I wouldn't listen to me as a manager either, haha.

Will probably start a new save soon and I will let you know if this occurs again.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Ghost77

[prched55]

22 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

My second choice Richie Laryea isn't any better, though.

Laryea is better than Spence defensively. You could play him against better teams. 

 

[fraudiola]

 

[Ghost77]

Hey guys. Just wanted to put in some more findings. Unfortunately it seems that this behaviour is happening regardless of the role, duty and instructions. I started a new save, tried different tactics - now playing with 3-4-3 and my defenders are still caught out of position in every match (usually following the striker up and leaving the space). 

I tried Libero on support, central defender on cover with hold position and close down less instruction. Yet he still does it in every match. The defence usually works well othrewise, but almost all goals I concede are comming from this. Defender goes up and deep runners or strikers instantly use the space behind him. 

I am literally out of options to work it out somehow. 

[Ghost77]

Another match, another same goal. I am starting to lose my patience with this game. It's really frustrating not to be able to do something about that.

[Poison]

I still insist that it's a fullback problem, especially if it looks like @fraudiola post [Look at no12, the fullback. he should be like 10 meters narrower lol, the cbs are alright - probably staying wider would still create a dangerous situation(??) ] . Does your left fb has positioning between 9 and 11 too? Did you try "force opposition outside" as I advised? Because it's the number one "let us not concede from through balls" TI imho.

[Johnny Ace]

5 hours ago, Ghost77 said:

I tried Libero on support, central defender on cover with hold position and close down less instruction. Yet he still does it in every match. 

I was about to suggest that, with a Positive team mentality, there's some built in pressing so was going to say try off setting that with less urgent 

I see one of Worrall's stand out attributes is Aggression, which will make him competitive, just wonder if that's making him step up? 

[Icy]

I'm having same issue with a counter 4-2-2-2 with Low LOE and low pressure, weird to concede goals against like these with a tactic based on waiting deep, but I must say I also play on positive mentality that helps with aggressive counters. I have tried now to set both CD as cover and in the first game played I had not even an attempt against of these through balls. Will keep observing as one game is not enough sample size.

[CaptCanuck]

2 hours ago, Poison said:

I still insist that it's a fullback problem, especially if it looks like @fraudiola post [Look at no12, the fullback. he should be like 10 meters narrower lol, the cbs are alright - probably staying wider would still create a dangerous situation(??) ] . Does your left fb has positioning between 9 and 11 too? Did you try "force opposition outside" as I advised? Because it's the number one "let us not concede from through balls" TI imho.

I've still not played enough to say for sure, but I do think the FB/WB culpability angle is sound. I have seen a couple really exaggerated passages where the FB(s) literally stands there for a second to let the IF/IW blazed past him to latch onto a cross or long throughball. Even with a CB being in a decent position, it is too much for them to make up.

Fortunately half of the resulting 1:1 chances are walloped 20' over the crossbar.

Edited March 10, 2022 by CaptCanuck

[Ghost77]

I would agree, that full back or other defenders should be able to catch the striker or at least they should be positioned better. But my main problem is that I don't want the central defeder to go up like that in the first place. If he is on CD-C with hold position and close down less, he should be standing in deeper position and not follow the striker like mindless. But until now I haven't found a role or instruction to make him do it.

If I use less urgent pressing team instruction, everybody will close down less which I don't want (but I can try to use the player instructions and make every player press individually). If I use balanced or cautious I don't score with my system. It's draw after draw.

I will try the force opposition oustide, hopefully I will not concede crosses or goals from the wings. 

[Ghost77]

After a few tests it seems that having two or three central defenders on CD-C helps a bit. But seems terrible "on paper" 

[fraudiola]

On 10/03/2022 at 19:43, Poison said:

I still insist that it's a fullback problem, especially if it looks like @fraudiola post [Look at no12, the fullback. he should be like 10 meters narrower lol, the cbs are alright - probably staying wider would still create a dangerous situation(??) ] . Does your left fb has positioning between 9 and 11 too? Did you try "force opposition outside" as I advised? Because it's the number one "let us not concede from through balls" TI imho.

elaborate on how its the fullback's fault and the cbs are alright for being so close that they're practically holding each others hands? 

my LCB 32 has followed all the way to where hes right next to the CB13 and its my LB's fault? 

throughballs wouldn't be a problem if my CBs weren't standing next to each other marking the same person leaving a huge gap. 

FYI, personally its an issue i face in DM-less tactics for the most part and playing CBs with marks tightly ppm also results in this but even without the PPM theres something strange that happens sometimes where it triggers the CB to just follow the attacker way out. i have no idea why the AI insists on training marks tightly on CBs, its suicidal. 

[Dutchy1983]

It could just be a case of good opposing tactics. I mean check if it's mostly against 1 striker formations using DLF or F9's. And them strikers could also possess comes deep to get ball etc.. if you narrow it down to most of your goals being from this, when ever you come against a such striker, go to opposition instructions and have marking never. It will allow them to roam, but it will actually keep your defenders in line. Dangerous to do it against other roles of strikers though.

[fraudiola]

1 hour ago, Dutchy1983 said:

It could just be a case of good opposing tactics. I mean check if it's mostly against 1 striker formations using DLF or F9's. And them strikers could also possess comes deep to get ball etc.. if you narrow it down to most of your goals being from this, when ever you come against a such striker, go to opposition instructions and have marking never. It will allow them to roam, but it will actually keep your defenders in line. Dangerous to do it against other roles of strikers though.

doesnt work, i've tried everything. i'd bring it up as a bug but it seems like not a lot of people are facing this issue so they wont do anything about it 

[Johnny Ace]

On 13/03/2022 at 08:00, fraudiola said:

doesnt work, i've tried everything. i'd bring it up as a bug but it seems like not a lot of people are facing this issue so they wont do anything about it 

There's no harm at all in posting a bug report @fraudiola

[backpocket]

On 11/03/2022 at 21:52, Ghost77 said:

After a few tests it seems that having two or three central defenders on CD-C helps a bit. But seems terrible "on paper" 

Have you tried lower mentalities like balanced? It might reduce it happening. 
Or another option might be dropping the LoE to compress space in the middle, or just pushing the D-line up to standard so the forward has less space to drop.

Edited March 19, 2022 by backpocket

[bababooey]

I've experienced this in all sorts of systems / tactics, but it's not game breaking.

One thing I have not tried, however, is to instruct one or both of the CB's to "trigger press less/much less".  I usually don't like to mess with PI's on my CB's.

Overall, I think this is a frustrating but minor issue. I can still very easily go a full Premier League campaign with the fewest goals conceded / best expected goals against.

It shouldn't be something that is causing you to leak goals so often that your team suffers.

[SimonHoddle]

On 11/03/2022 at 13:52, Ghost77 said:

After a few tests it seems that having two or three central defenders on CD-C helps a bit. But seems terrible "on paper" 

I just played 3 at the back, v deep D line, with one of the fastest CBs in the game on cover duty against vardys Leicester. He scored twice with simple balls over the top, defence too high and covering CB nowhere to be seen. we lost 6-0 hahaha. I’m playing as spurs.
 

I think we should stop blaming ourselves and blame the game. It’s a joke. 
 

very very frustrating how you need a coaching badge to be able to defend in recent versions and even then the defence doesn’t operate properly anyway.

sadly it means I can only play with attacking tactics and the game becomes a series of click and play matches with v little thought. 
 

 

[bababooey]

On 28/03/2022 at 17:14, SimonHoddle said:

I just played 3 at the back, v deep D line, with one of the fastest CBs in the game on cover duty against vardys Leicester. He scored twice with simple balls over the top, defence too high and covering CB nowhere to be seen. we lost 6-0 hahaha. I’m playing as spurs.
 

I think we should stop blaming ourselves and blame the game. It’s a joke. 
 

very very frustrating how you need a coaching badge to be able to defend in recent versions and even then the defence doesn’t operate properly anyway.

sadly it means I can only play with attacking tactics and the game becomes a series of click and play matches with v little thought. 
 

 

I understand your frustration, but what you're saying here is simply not true.

Playing "defensive" football is very, very doable. There are a litany of threads about this very topic.

Just because you set the defensive line to "low" and play with a really fast defender doesn't automatically = impossible to get in behind. What's the mentality of the defender? Does he concentrate well? Can he anticipate well? Etc.

The key to defending well is making sure there are no weak links in your system. That means, everyone has a job to do. If your forwards don't press effectively, but stay high, then what are they contributing? (that's just one example).

[fraudiola]

On 28/03/2022 at 22:08, bababooey said:

I've experienced this in all sorts of systems / tactics, but it's not game breaking.

its game breaking when you play 3atb with no DM

[Rashidi]

On 16/02/2022 at 05:17, Ghost77 said:

Yes, you are right, that was exactly my thinking behind that. But on balanced mentality it is very hard to score consistently with my system. Even on positive I started to lose 0:1 in too many matches. 

I started like that, conceding goals over the top as every keeper in the league seems to wanna do that to us. So i dropped my defensive line, moved my DM away from my CD cos I noticed them both going for the same balls and yeah it doesnt help that my CD has poor mentals. It's not as bad as the first few games of the season where we were conceding a lot of goals as a newly promoted team, then I discovered after the stream had ended that my DC had stay wider to make things worse.

We are now playing on defensive or balanced mentality with a standard defensive line and a tight mid block. Its stopped happening so far. And like some of the others have mentioned, having good defenders helps.

[pileto]

What helped me reduce the amount of goals I receive from this kind of situations is:

1. I dropped the DOE to standard (used to play it on higher)

2. I usually like to play my full backs with PIs to close less often, however I noticed that this gives a lot of time on the ball and space to the opp. wingers from where most of these through passes are coming. So I just switched the closing PIs to balanced and sometimes (when I noticed that is required during a game) I even tweak it to close down more.

This massively reduced these opportunities for the opp. team. Of course it still happens, because that's part of the game, but the thing is - you need to realize when this is happening because of player mistake and when it's happening because of your tactics.

[masno]

11 horas atrás, pileto disse:

 

This massively reduced these opportunities for the opp. team. Of course it still happens, because that's part of the game, but the thing is - you need to realize when this is happening because of player mistake and when it's happening because of your tactics.

The problem is it is happening because is a game mistake, FM has a terrible problem in not follow player/team instructions, several times your players will do whatever is in their mind, and that will cost you games, this is game is quite easy to win, but is a pain in the *** when you actually want to build a tactic without going gengenpressing super attacking, because nowadays is basically a game of who can outscore the other more, looks like a FIFA game.

I can't endorse it more, SI NEEDS to actually improve the tactical side of the game, actually gives us tools to make realistic tactics, unfortunately the role/function system is flawed at the extreme, with so many hardcoded behaviors that instead of building a tactic, you need to get a puzzle together, and then hope for it to get right, and when it get wrong, you need to understand why. Great exemple is this CD problem, why do CDs keep all this space behind them, even when we beg them to not do it?

Because one instruction we give our FB actually make them have this behavior? 
Because of one PPM will completely ignore your instructions and it every single time they can?
Because it is a bug?
Because the game can't actually simulate defensive patterns?

We will never know, why? Because the tactical side of this game is a mess.