Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[mancity12]

So,

Ive been using a mixed set-up of a 4-4-2 set-up with Man City and have won 3, drawn five . Going the right way I suppose.

Just wondering if anybody has had good success with any of the ready-made tactics without tampering them? And if so, which ones?

[sarge]

WWFAN, MILLIE,

Have just managed to get a copy of Excel 2007 and hence been looking through the spreadsheet that you created - very good by the way. I just have a couple of queries:

1. On the 442 Band of Two set, the FCd has a higher mentality than the FCa - is this correct.

2. Im sure i read a post by Millie, suggesting that we disregard the first click on the sliders. Can you please confirm or deny this for me.

many thanks for all your help.

[banquet]

for a front two partnership what would people suggest be the best mentalities for the players in order for them to work together. i have tried to implement what the guide suggests but my strikers just don't seem interested at all in working together or scoring, even pat rice agrees with me. Its annoying because defensively I've hit the jackpot but going the other way isn't good at all.

also if i was to implement a front 3 with a FC, AML & AMR, what would be the best mentalities to get the most out of the three working together has a forward unit.

thanx.

[T-Unit-LFC]

Cheers wwfan, awesome guide and thanks for helping me with my question!! :-D

[Blackbag]

Can i confirm that the players mentalities override the team one and therefore the teams defensive line is not connected to the team mentality in this case?

[Mike J]

OK, after a very shaky start I'm thinking I may need to change my tactics from a RoO-based set to something more resembling the Wenger system outlined in the TT&F. I'll be using a 4-4-1-1. I think one of my problems with RoO-based tactics is the constant change in role a player has to go through whenever I want to change to a different tactic. This seemed to affect their consistency a little bit. Basing everything off generic defend/support/attack roles may help with this.

Would I be right in thiking you can use individual instructions to adapt some of the roles to a more attacking or more defensive system? For example, if I had a MC in a Support role I could adjust his FWR and passing style and turn him into a support/attack role without adjusting his mentality at all? If so, this seems like a more efficient way of bridging the gap between a Standard and an Attacking tactic.

[wwfan]

OK, after a very shaky start I'm thinking I may need to change my tactics from a RoO-based set to something more resembling the Wenger system outlined in the TT&F. I'll be using a 4-4-1-1. I think one of my problems with RoO-based tactics is the constant change in role a player has to go through whenever I want to change to a different tactic. This seemed to affect their consistency a little bit. Basing everything off generic defend/support/attack roles may help with this.

Would I be right in thiking you can use individual instructions to adapt some of the roles to a more attacking or more defensive system? For example, if I had a MC in a Support role I could adjust his FWR and passing style and turn him into a support/attack role without adjusting his mentality at all? If so, this seems like a more efficient way of bridging the gap between a Standard and an Attacking tactic.

Yes. We only offer guidelines, not rules. You should be able to adapt things in the manner you find logical and relevant to how you want your team to play. As long as the Ass Man isn't reporting gaps, then everything will work.

@ Blackbag: Individual instructions override team.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Should be stickyed! Am loving this, however I am too impatient to play FM09 to enter all the tactical tweaks in one go so have set up the 5 main tactical theorys (for a 442 diamond shape) and am inputing the tweaks (FRUNS, RWB etc) a few per night to each of the 5 saved tactis. This is great as you see the developmenmt of your team evening to evening as the changes are implemented.

eg. Lost to Exeter City on pens in Football trophy using untweaked "Standard", then drew 1-1 at Leeds (Im Bristol Rov by the way) using Defensive in the next match. And even as underdog I was dominating things - they got a 96th min equaliser against my ten men. Love it!

[Daley]

wwfan, is there a way of getting the frony three players in a 4-3-3 formation to swap with each other in the way that Fergie has Rooney, Ronaldo etc to play?

[Thoth]

Im definitely confused by Spurs in this game, similar to a few others before. Built up my tactics and blitzed the first season with Inter winning league by 12 points.

Was feeling pretty confident starting a game up with Spurs but no joy.

Beat Man u 2-1 in second game so all looked good to start but now can't win at all. Just got beat by fulham at home, and they are bottom of the league!

[Millie]

went for the "standard" tactic.. with 4-4-2. made sure that 1 of the attackers was more def and the other atc, and 1 mid center was more def and the other atc. Tweaked on all of the player instructions, and followed the guide line by line. used all my best players.

Gomes

Bale - king - corluka - zakora

Fernandez - veloso - moutinho - Bentley

Rossi - Bent

Have you tried the 4-4-2 Standard that came with FM09, or the one that came with the TT&F Tactics Pack? If it's the first, there could be some major issues. If it's the second, you shouldn't have had to change many of the individual instructions at all to start with. At least, not until you'd seen them play and countered any glaring holes.

Also, did you play it all the way through, without changing? I would have thought it best to be attacking against Coventry, and then go more standard or defensive once ahead to hold onto the lead.

stats : 6/6 shots for coventry, 15/6 for me. they played as good as me.. 50% ball possession and won just as much tackles etc.

Coventrys 1 goal: Zakora looses the ball on our half after a stupid quick pass from king who was alone, then coventry starts to short pass with eachother, and finally finds room to make a crossball (dosent look like my players are putting any pressure on them, but i got alot of pressure on).. my defender makes a bad clearance, and the coventry attacker is on the return alone, no one has a mark on him, even when i got thight marking.

Loads of individual errors, which you would expect from an ungelled side in a meaningless game. What closing down do you have everyone on? Too much can be as bad as not enough. If they're unsure who to close down and when they could be making all the wrong decisions. Without knowing what system you were playing at the time and without seeing the goal it's hard to judge.

Coventry, goal 2: Coventry is making some short passes with eachother, then my mid center catches the ball, and looses it easily fast again.. The coventry player passes fast to their striker, and my players arent putting any pressure on him, just backing down.. Then the striker passes to the other striker (who isnt marked properly, king is running next to him).. The striker shoots from 17-18m and scores. my players are getting tricked very easy

Hmm. This "no pressure" thing is worrying me a lot. What are your marking and closing down settings? What's your width and d-line too?

Coventry goal 3: I take the kick off, coventry fast takes the ball, makes 2-3 short passes, the striker just turns left against the Cdefender, and blast the shot from 17-18m and goal

That could happen to anyone, but seems related to the not closing down and the complete lack of confidence you would be suffering at this point.

Blackburn game... 9/2 (blackburn) - 9/4 me...

Blackburn 1 goal: The midfielders and strikers are short passing with eachother and my players are just watching,dont try to tackle or anything.. finally the ball get to the center and the striker shots from around 17-19m and scores. My Cdef,midfielders etc, just stand there and watch.. dont tackle or anything.

Blackburn goal 2: I see that blackburn is short passing ALOT, and my players is just watching and making some small pressure on the man now and then.. SAnta cruz got 2! defenders on him.. but both defenders just watch and let santa cruz turn right and shoot from 17-18m and goals.. its nothing between santa cruz and the goal.. its a big gap, he can just shoot easy from 17-18 m without any pressure, just turns to one of the sides against the defenders and shoots.

After watching thoose 2 games, i see 1 thing that repeats itself everytime. My players let the strikers/midfielders shoot from 17-20m all the time.. the defenders look like *******, and dont tackle og do any pressure. Same with my midefielders etc.. and my passing is horrible sometimes and the players loose the ball easy.

Are you on easy tackling or something? I've not seen players just standing off like this. If anything, I believe the TT&F tactics are too concerned with closing down, so I would not expect to see this at all.

Are you playing on 3D? That often gives the illusion of no closing down when you compare it to the 2D. Also, do you have PKMs of these matches, and are you able to upload them anywhere?

[fitze69]

Amazing guide, took me a few reads to get it. Combination of that and some of the tactics you put with it. To be honest I really didn't understand tactic and I taught 08 was going to be my last FM but I'm back to staying up till 2 in the morning!

I've done well with United, have a good chance at the treble. I know its easier with Unitd but its better to start with an easy game and work your way down.

[wwfan]

Spurs are just very difficult to manage. Millie experienced exactly the same thing in testing. They simply performed much worse than any other team we used, bar St Pauli and their big pitch, which proved what we expected to see, that you need a narrower formation on a wide pitch.

@ Daley: You could try swap roles so that Ronaldo swaps with Rooney, Rooney with Tevez and Tevez with Ronaldo and see if that works.

[Blackbag]

thanks WWfan,

so if i move the team defensive line my team will start defending further up or down the pitch ?

[mancity12]

@ WWFAN please (when you have a spare minute).

When testing, for teams with alot of flair players, did you find any particular tactic which seemed to stand out?

I know flair and creative players are generally attacking players, but attacking all the time just gets you beat. Often.

[wwfan]

thanks WWfan,

so if i move the team defensive line my team will start defending further up or down the pitch ?

Yes.

@ WWFAN please (when you have a spare minute).

When testing, for teams with alot of flair players, did you find any particular tactic which seemed to stand out?

I know flair and creative players are generally attacking players, but attacking all the time just gets you beat. Often.

The Wenger Role Theory framework seems to produce the most attractive football (perhaps Millie will confirm as I think he is using it right now). However, no team can always attack. Sometimes even Wenger has to be pragmatic.

@ fitze69: I'm not sure if I should be apologising or feeling happy

[Justified]

Well I've been toying around with the BoT theory with a Plymouth save (trying to understand the ME before starting on a career long save) and so far I think BoT is maybe too cautious? Reason why I say that is because the Standard strategy is meant to balance caution/risk however I don't think there is an even kiel, I think it tips more to the cautious end.

After 10 matches (not inc friendlies) I thought the players were just too deep which effected the closing down (long shots being popped off without pressure). I pushed the MCd up two notches (same as wingers and MCa) but now the MCa and MCd were on the same mentality. I made the MCa more attacking by bumping him up two notches as well. This seemed to work well with the MCd now sweeping behind the midfield and not sitting in the knees of the defence. Also this free'd up the MCa to support the strikers. But now with one sorted a new problem arised ( as it always does ). The wingers were now too defensive. Seeing as they were "attacking" they were way too defensive for that role and I bumped them up two notches as well. Problem number 3 arose, the gap between defence and midfield was larger then the RoT suggests. Bumped up fullbacks mentality by 2 and adjusted the D-line one or two notches.

The result? More stable team performances. Centremids and wingers don't sink too deep to allow the AI to pass the ball in the area between my attack and defence. The support to the strikers is a lot better, less long shots due to no other options available and actually some sweet through balls being made.

[Blackbag]

Thanks wwfan

[DevonSpurs]

Am just browsing these pages for the time being, am meant to be working, but got a quick question for someone:

How do I stop my assistant saying to tighten the gap between Defence and Midfield???

[Millie]

The Wenger Role Theory framework seems to produce the most attractive football (perhaps Millie will confirm as I think he is using it right now). However, no team can always attack. Sometimes even Wenger has to be pragmatic.

Real Madrid look awesome (if a little leaky at times) with Wenger's Role Theory. It's what I'm currently working for in FML. It does look fantastic, but don't expect it to blow people away with 5-2s out-of-the-box. Once it all starts gelling, however, it's a joy to behold.

[mancity12]

Reading through the TT&F, the Wenger Role theory seems a little un-clear.

Am I right in thinking, basically you select a formation (4-4-1-1 I think I want) and then assign 5 players an attacking mentality of 14? Then with what's left, I presume the DM would get a single supporting role with a mentality of 11 and the 4 defenders at the back given mentalities of 8 (or even have the two FB's as supporting and the two DC's as defending roles?

Is that all you need to do to set-up the Wenger role theory?

[Mike J]

As I understand it, what you have there is the attacking version of the Wenger tactic. By changing some of your attacking players to support roles you get a more standard version. Having 5 on defend roles would be a defensive version of the tactic.

As ever, it's not that simple, though. Individual instructions are very important too. Just setting up with 5 players on attacking mentality doesn't quite cover it.

[fitze69]

Yes.

The Wenger Role Theory framework seems to produce the most attractive football (perhaps Millie will confirm as I think he is using it right now). However, no team can always attack. Sometimes even Wenger has to be pragmatic.

@ fitze69: I'm not sure if I should be apologising or feeling happy

You might want to apologise to my girlfriend, she hasn't seen me in a week or two and were about to move in together. I wonder if I'm quiet enough will she hear me in the spare room. probably not cause i tend to shout my instructions at the screen.

Again fantastic document!

[mancity12]

Please ignore my last question. I want to play Mourinho style, taking control of matches and using little creativity.

So, I have four quick-hit questions and then I promise to leave you good people to play FM09.....I mean work

Question 1 - What formation would you suggest for a Mourinho tactic? 4-1-3-2 with the centre midfielders narrow and at a slow tempo?

Question 2 - In this tactic, one DC is more defensive than the other. Why?

Question three - Am I right in thinking you would only give say one FC some creative freedom and the rest of the players a creativity setting of about 6 and that you wouldn't have a playmaker or people on freeroles?

Question four - The 72 tactics you have uploaded, are they on any of these settings like are any of them Wenger, any Mourinho, Capello etc?

Thanks alot.

[wwfan]

Reading through the TT&F, the Wenger Role theory seems a little un-clear.

Am I right in thinking, basically you select a formation (4-4-1-1 I think I want) and then assign 5 players an attacking mentality of 14? Then with what's left, I presume the DM would get a single supporting role with a mentality of 11 and the 4 defenders at the back given mentalities of 8 (or even have the two FB's as supporting and the two DC's as defending roles?

Is that all you need to do to set-up the Wenger role theory?

Not quite. There's a 3-2-5 split in an attacking Role Theory Tactic. For a 4-4-1-1 you could have the DCs and one MC on Defensive (8), the other MC and FC on support (11) and the FBs, wingers and AMC on attack (as an example). To shift to Standard, two of the five players assigned Attacking roles become support players and then Defensive players for Defensive. The FBs are the common choice.

[Iselilja]

How would closing down work on a slow player with high workrate and determination (like Emerson). Would he need less closing down, because he will close down when necessary because of his mental stats?

[wwfan]

So, I have four quick-hit questions and then I promise to leave you good people to play FM09.....I mean work

Question 1 - What formation would you suggest for a Mourinho tactic? 4-1-3-2 with the centre midfielders narrow and at a slow tempo?

You can use any formation. However, should you wish to play the real Mourinho style, then a 4-1-2-2-1.

Question 2 - In this tactic, one DC is more defensive than the other. Why?

One is a stopper (a la Terry), one a more athletic sweeper (a la Carvalho)

Question three - Am I right in thinking you would only give say one FC some creative freedom and the rest of the players a creativity setting of about 6 and that you wouldn't have a playmaker or people on freeroles?

Although the Mourinho framework doesn't need much CF or free roles, I would certainly encourage at least one winger and one MC to roam. The DMC in the suggested formation could also easily operate as a deep-lying playmaker.

Question four - The 72 tactics you have uploaded, are they on any of these settings like are any of them Wenger, any Mourinho, Capello etc?

They are all Ferguson Band of Two Theory. However, they can easily be adapted to Mourinho's system.

How would closing down work on a slow player with high workrate and determination (like Emerson). Would he need less closing down, because he will close down when necessary because of his mental stats?

I'd make sure he was tight marking, but hopefully you can rely on his game reading skills. It depends on how risky you wish to be.

[mancity12]

I love you :o

Thanks alot fo the advice.

[Justified]

Please ignore my last question. I want to play Mourinho style, taking control of matches and using little creativity.

So, I have four quick-hit questions and then I promise to leave you good people to play FM09.....I mean work

Question 1 - What formation would you suggest for a Mourinho tactic? 4-1-3-2 with the centre midfielders narrow and at a slow tempo?

Question 2 - In this tactic, one DC is more defensive than the other. Why?

Question three - Am I right in thinking you would only give say one FC some creative freedom and the rest of the players a creativity setting of about 6 and that you wouldn't have a playmaker or people on freeroles?

Question four - The 72 tactics you have uploaded, are they on any of these settings like are any of them Wenger, any Mourinho, Capello etc?

Thanks alot.

1) Mourinho's preferred formation is a 4-3-3 which defends like a 4-5-1 in defence. Easiest way to replicate this would be a 4-5-1 with a DMC and out and out wingers. Technically it's impossible to replicate the exact 4-3-3 that Mourinho uses because sometimes he uses pure wingers or sometimes he'll use forwards who drift in. Mourinho's 4-1-3-2 is his "backup" plan if you will. If the 4-3-3 doesn't work he'll got to the 4-1-3-2 with one of the MC's being more like an AMC.

Mourinho has two ways of playing. Domination or Control. Domination is set about playing football in the opponents half, pushing up and pressing high up the field and making sure that the ball action is on the midway or opponents half. Control is about widening the ball and slowing down the tempo and only going forward when the opportunity is on.

2) Stop and sweep move. I'll be honest here and say Mourinho doesn't always use it. Mostly he'll only use it against team's who play a pure lone striker. You can chose not to have it, that's fine, but make sure your DM is helping otu the DC's as much as possible if your finding it hard against opposition strikers.

3) Mourinho doesn't allow CF at all. He wants exact instructions to be followed. If not your subbed off and punished.

[tudorziman]

it's an interesting guide but it has some mistakes.

for example hard takling for all players is not good at all. you can't select hard takling for players with poor defensive stats, it will only produce yellow or red cards.

free role is also something that can ruin the performance of a player that doesn't have a good free role stat (it's a stat although is hidden)

the same thing is valid for creative freedom. if the player has 10 creativity, it's useless to give him lots of creating freedom...

[footynut]

it's an interesting guide but it has some mistakes.

for example hard takling for all players is not good at all. you can't select hard takling for players with poor defensive stats, it will only produce yellow or red cards.

free role is also something that can ruin the performance of a player that doesn't have a good free role stat (it's a stat although is hidden)

the same thing is valid for creative freedom. if the player has 10 creativity, it's useless to give him lots of creating freedom...

I think it's meant as a general guide and does say something in there about tailoring it to the players you have at your disposal.

[sgw]

Many, many thanks for a great guide. Reading through the main document is the FM equivalent of doing your UEFA coaching badges. I've been playing for years and years, and that's the single most useful resource I've ever read for the game. It gives you all the tools to try the type of football you want to play, without being a total spoiler. Brilliant.

[JacketB]

Hi I have been using your Quieroz 4-2-3-1 tactic with my Valencia game. My line up is:

GK- Renan

DR- Miguel

DL- Moretti

DC- Alexis

DC- Albiol

DMC- Albelda

MC- Fernandes

ML- Mata

AMR- Joaquin

AMC- Silva

FC- Villa

(I did not allow transfers at the start)

I am really strruggling to get Villa to score, I have changed his instructions to match that of the guides complete forward settings and have set him as the targetman with 'Run onto ball' just to try and get him into scoring positions, so far he always seems to get the ball deep, never in a dangerous position. Can you give me any advice on how to get him to score from your testing. Thanks!

[moj]

Can anyone post any tactics they've made out of this guide? I would love to make a tactic but I don't have the time for it, I would love some 4-4-2 tactics, please post.

[Paulinho1111111]

It's all been said before me, amazing guide, just need some time to soak it all up. I read the text and see the numbers and how they relate between the players, but have a feeling it will be a few weeks of trying and losing before i truly understand it all, but thanks to you with time we all have a better chance to enjoy the game

One question that I really didn't get my head around, which pitch size to use. Seemed that there are pros and cons with whichever one picks, so wondered if you have a tip to which will give the most pros. Will be playing with Man Utd with Role Theory Attacking. Thanks for any help.

[Raven1015]

Regarding the whole gelling issue, I am managing the San Jose Earthquakes (my hometown team), and they are an expansion team, meaning ALL their players are new. On top of that, I've torn apart the team, bringing in about seven new players and shipping out about the same number. As you can imagine my chemistry is at rock bottom. However, using TT&F has been great for me so far. I used to be hopeless at tactics, switching things around aimlessly, now at least I have a purpose and program. Knowing that my chemistry is horrible, I'm employing a Nike defense this season, with a lower than normal level of creative freedom. I figure in a team that doesn't know how to play together yet, it is better to spell things out for each player and keep things tight. Once my squad has gotten used to each other, I will think about switching to a more open style of play next season.

So far it's working well. I have 7 points after four games, including a big 3-1 away win over our rivals in L.A. Still early in the season but I at least feel confident that I have more control over what's happening on the pitch. Thanks guys.

[mizan]

Excellent guide, read all of it and made notes. Can't wait to get stuck in with Hyde FC in the Blue Square Premier (got promoted with my own tactic!) Found a few interesting ideas about free roles and creative freedom and FCd and FCa which will hopefully make me survive this season.

Thanks for making a great guide, which will be beneficial to all FM users.

[Dexter St Jock]

There's one thing I just don't understand. If mentality is a positioning tool then why are you staggering it? Surely you're just stretching the team and making it very unstable? It would make more sense to me if you made something the fulcrum of the tactic. Say you wanted the "Swoosh" defence say we'd make the MCd the "fulcrum" of the team with a mentality of 10.

GK - 10

DCd - 8

DC - 10

FB - 12

MCd - 10

MR/L - 10

MCa - 12

FCd - 8

FCa - 15

From looking at this I would say it's semi-global where I've asked one DC to be deeper then a mentality10 defender, I've asked the fullbacks to be more attacking then mentality10 fullback, split the MC's into one positioned one further. To get a FCd into the mix you'd have to have him on a lower mentality then the set mentality so the same as DCd to make him play deeper then a mentality10 striker. The FCa to get him to play off the shoulder of the defender you won't see him in build up at all because 5 notches higher then the team average is very high and probably isolates him completely.

Does that system make any sense?

[banquet]

i dont know if anyone saw my message earlier but i really need some help on getting more shots in on goal closer to goal. my assistant keeps telling me that we are gettin enough shots but they are too long range to do any damage. can anyone help?

thanx

[Thoth]

Genius work guys - my Spurs team are finally winning

[AmuntValencia]

Along with many others it seems i too am struggling to get David Villa involved as a lone striker.I want him too play as he does in real life,buzzing around the last defender and finishing off moves.Any advice on how i can get this to happen?Thanks in advance.

[Millie]

Can anyone post any tactics they've made out of this guide? I would love to make a tactic but I don't have the time for it, I would love some 4-4-2 tactics, please post.

There's three 4-4-2s already uploaded, moj.

it's an interesting guide but it has some mistakes.

for example hard takling for all players is not good at all. you can't select hard takling for players with poor defensive stats, it will only produce yellow or red cards.

free role is also something that can ruin the performance of a player that doesn't have a good free role stat (it's a stat although is hidden)

the same thing is valid for creative freedom. if the player has 10 creativity, it's useless to give him lots of creating freedom...

Hard tackling can work on players who aren't the best tacklers in the world. Stoke, anyone? Similarly, giving an attacking player a free role won't necessarily mean he'll play garbage unless he has 15+ for free role attributes. And again, creativity - does this mean nobody other than Arsenal should ever play with creative freedom?

While what you say has some logic to it, the fact remains that trying to create a generic system means you have to step outside these black-and-white boundaries. These ideas aren't just ideas that have been thrown together - they've been heavily tested.

There's a lot in this guide I originally had disagreements with wwfan about and vice-versa, but experience has shown that on the whole these ideas produce good results.

Of course, if things aren't working, what you've suggested are good probable causes and probable solutions, but don't dismiss it out of hand. Remember that being a "good" tackler etc. is very relative.

There's one thing I just don't understand. If mentality is a positioning tool then why are you staggering it? Surely you're just stretching the team and making it very unstable? It would make more sense to me if you made something the fulcrum of the tactic. Say you wanted the "Swoosh" defence say we'd make the MCd the "fulcrum" of the team with a mentality of 10.

GK - 10

DCd - 8

DC - 10

FB - 12

MCd - 10

MR/L - 10

MCa - 12

FCd - 8

FCa - 15

From looking at this I would say it's semi-global where I've asked one DC to be deeper then a mentality10 defender, I've asked the fullbacks to be more attacking then mentality10 fullback, split the MC's into one positioned one further. To get a FCd into the mix you'd have to have him on a lower mentality then the set mentality so the same as DCd to make him play deeper then a mentality10 striker. The FCa to get him to play off the shoulder of the defender you won't see him in build up at all because 5 notches higher then the team average is very high and probably isolates him completely.

Does that system make any sense?

Staggering mentality gradually allows the attackers to be more attacking and the defenders to be more defensive without causing major gaps. Have you ever tried Rule of One or any of the frameworks here? You'll see that they are notable in the fact that they don't cause gaps. Indeed, it's one of the reasons the guide was written in the first place.

The framework you've suggested looks logical and solid enough. I wouldn't play it for purely personal reasons - I like the Mourinho, Fergusson and Wenger ways of playing. But theoretically it looks sound as a pound.

In fact, I would expect it to be more defensively stable than some of the other tactics we've created, though I worry if enough impotus would come from the midfield - you might consider going for 12 mentality on the wingers? Having not played it, I won't judge it. I like the solidity it looks like it would provide, though, so I say go for it!

[Uncle_Sam]

So what's a good number of clear cut chances? With the TTF tactic I'm building right now I'm getting about 5 a game. Is that high or low? With this being a new stat I'm not entirely certain on what a successful number is in this area.

[20LEGEND]

I have been trying the TTF 4-4-2 tactics with my Altrincham side in the BSP, mainly using the defensive and standard ones as my team is rubbish. Lowered closing down and width, and increased the length of passing and also tempo slightly. Not doing too well though, stuck in 20th after 40 games . Don't know what I am doing wrong tbh. Really struggle to create any chances at all. I was predicted 21st at the start of the season so it's not that bad, but I would have hoped to be doing better, especially as I got some decent players in on loan.

Anyone got any tips for altering the TTF tactics for LLM ?

[Dexter St Jock]

Staggering mentality gradually allows the attackers to be more attacking and the defenders to be more defensive without causing major gaps. Have you ever tried Rule of One or any of the frameworks here? You'll see that they are notable in the fact that they don't cause gaps. Indeed, it's one of the reasons the guide was written in the first place.

Well yes that's how I considered RoO to work. However I don't see where the team fits in? I understand managers wanting to like Mourinho, Van Gaal etc etc but the fact is you'll, as like IRL, never have full control over your players. Sometimes you have to leave it to the team, setting up a semi global let's you tell certain players to do certain things without loosing a team cohesion.

The framework you've suggested looks logical and solid enough. I wouldn't play it for purely personal reasons - I like the Mourinho, Fergusson and Wenger ways of playing. But theoretically it looks sound as a pound.

Looking at the Ferguson and Wenger frameworks that have been posted I don't really see a difference. Semi Global allows for BoT and Role theory, all you have to do is have it semi with global.

In fact, I would expect it to be more defensively stable than some of the other tactics we've created, though I worry if enough impetus would come from the midfield - you might consider going for 12 mentality on the wingers? Having not played it, I won't judge it. I like the solidity it looks like it would provide, though, so I say go for it!

Oh it is very solid. Teams I've used it for seldom let in a lot of goals unless there is an obvious class difference. I think you underestimate Global a touch. You don't actually have to give each player a different mentality for him to be involved in play. You'd be surprised if you tried it

[The Dolphinator]

WWFAN - firstly, AMAZING article mate. well done.

i'm now having fun trying to improve my tactics (they definitely need it) using your rules as a template.

the only thing i could do with some quick assistance on is the space between my defence and midfield. i've got a MCd but still i have a massive void between my midfield and defence. i even played him in DMC and still this problem persisted.

anyway, hopefully yourself or someone else can help me with this annoying issue!

[rougess]

i'm a few games in to my save with man utd and it's going brilliantly. yet to lose, my tactic is between standard and attacking bands of two, and is playing football similar to united irl.

aside from helping me create tactics, this guide has proved priceless when tweaking in match. thanks to what i've learnt I've turned several losses and draws into wins.

cheers wwfan and millie, and everyone else who helped

[wwfan]

it's an interesting guide but it has some mistakes.

for example hard takling for all players is not good at all. you can't select hard takling for players with poor defensive stats, it will only produce yellow or red cards.

free role is also something that can ruin the performance of a player that doesn't have a good free role stat (it's a stat although is hidden)

the same thing is valid for creative freedom. if the player has 10 creativity, it's useless to give him lots of creating freedom...

Numbers one and three I don't agree with at all. My disciplinary record was exceptional in every test game I played during the writing of the guide, despite playing hard tackling on every player in the Attacking tactic. You need to try it before dismissing it as it is very, very effective. Furthermore, creative freedom does not directly link to creativity, rather to flair and decisions. Giving it to any player with good decisions will encourage him to try to do different things. I do agree with the free roles, hence the suggestion not to give STs the free role instructions. However, at the highest level and with a team with players who can make use of the instruction, it is a vital instruction and has been traditionally underused by FM players.

I am really strruggling to get Villa to score, I have changed his instructions to match that of the guides complete forward settings and have set him as the targetman with 'Run onto ball' just to try and get him into scoring positions, so far he always seems to get the ball deep, never in a dangerous position. Can you give me any advice on how to get him to score from your testing. Thanks!

I wouldn't make him a target man. I am finding that quick players seem to do better when they are allowed to roam slightly more deeply and attack the area late, whereas strong players need to play the spearhead role. While I can imagine Villa could do both, I think the former may suit him better. I'd have his mentality slightly lower than the wingers but with FWRs mixed and a lot of creative freedom and tweak mentality and runs from there until he starts to be effective. It shouldn't take too long to find some best settings.

One question that I really didn't get my head around, which pitch size to use. Seemed that there are pros and cons with whichever one picks, so wondered if you have a tip to which will give the most pros. Will be playing with Man Utd with Role Theory Attacking. Thanks for any help.

In general, th ebetter your team in relation to the average standard of your division, the bigger the pitch as it means you don't have to struggle to find space at home. If you are poor, you want a smaller pitch so you can grind out results.

i dont know if anyone saw my message earlier but i really need some help on getting more shots in on goal closer to goal. my assistant keeps telling me that we are gettin enough shots but they are too long range to do any damage. can anyone help?

This message seems to reduce in frequency once your team starts to gel. However, the advice given further up about strong/quick strikers might help, as might using to the Cross To instruction to target the big striker. For lower level sides, Target Man will help, for higher ones employing a playmaker should too.

So what's a good number of clear cut chances? With the TTF tactic I'm building right now I'm getting about 5 a game. Is that high or low? With this being a new stat I'm not entirely certain on what a successful number is in this area.

Five is excellent.

Oh it is very solid. Teams I've used it for seldom let in a lot of goals unless there is an obvious class difference. I think you underestimate Global a touch. You don't actually have to give each player a different mentality for him to be involved in play. You'd be surprised if you tried it

A good global tactic works fine. Each system brings advantages and disadvantages. It's up to the user how he wishes to set things up, complex to simple.

the only thing i could do with some quick assistance on is the space between my defence and midfield. i've got a MCd but still i have a massive void between my midfield and defence. i even played him in DMC and still this problem persisted.

Is it something the Ass MAn is commenting on? If so, then your mentality settings are wrong. If not, it is more likely to be related to the defensive line and closing down, with the d-line and DCs closing down being too low for the MCd's closing down settings.

[rbnrbn]

Hey wwfan and Millie. Good job on the TT&F, really useful, cheers

Yet I have a quite few problems. I'm currently using the "Role Theory" for my West Ham side. I've made quite a few decent additions so i don;t think quality is the problem (well possibly in defence...Upson and Fuentes).

I followed the Crib sheet that you created and pretty much copied the information over into 3 different tactical sets, attacking, standard and defensive.

Yet i'm currently having a problem with teams always outscoring me when using all sets...do you think this is due to my average defenders? I've tried adopting a deep defensive line, yet this doesn't seem to work...

One thing i must say is that my team is definately playing much better football now, than before you wonderous TT&F doc! Cheers

[wwfan]

Role Theory is arguably the most defensively frail of the systems although it seems to offer the best attacking combinations. I found it really began to click about half-way through a season.