Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[displaced_seagull]

Working out how to score is tough (as it should be). If you give the wrong players the roaming instructions, everything will be disjointed. We also found Spurs problematic in testing as they made so many defensive errors due to a total lack of gelling.

Id' be looking at giving Bent Poacher settings and trying to work Pavlyuchenko into a supporting role (perhaps as a creative forward (i.e advanced Playmaker in an FCd role but without Playmaker being ticked (although I haven't checked if he is suitable)). Modric I'd use sparingly until he has picked up the language. I'd be looking at getting Lennon, Bentley and Jenas to do the creative stuff for the first 15 games, backed up with a spine of Dokora and Huddlestone, and then re-evaluate Modric and try to give him more game time.

Cheers, interestingly I had Pavlyuchenko set as a more Creative Forward, slightly lower mentality than Bent etc, but also had him on Hold Up Ball. I think that may well have stalled a few attacks. Going to go with a full strength side next game - Ipswich in the Carling Cup - with those settings changed. I'll let you know how I get on

In other news, I really should go to bed soon, but won't for now - this is too damn addictive! (and besides, I can't allow a 1-0 defeat to Stoke to be my last game of the evening...)

[displaced_seagull]

Well, it delivered a win \o/ - OK, it was 1-0 (a late second disallowed offside), and it was against lower league opposition, but we looked a lot better going forward, and from the players ratings I can see that the front men were far more involved. Bent got the goal, his first of the season

[wwfan]

Well, it delivered a win \o/ - OK, it was 1-0 (a late second disallowed offside), and it was against lower league opposition, but we looked a lot better going forward, and from the players ratings I can see that the front men were far more involved. Bent got the goal, his first of the season

I think one of the main issue for everyone will be free roles. For players who can use them, it transforms a tactic, even more so when the squad is gelled. For those that can't, or in an ungelled squad, it hinders and disjoints play.

Personally, I think our recommendation to use it for the FCa is probably slightly flawed. If the FCa is an FC rather than an ST, he will be brilliant. However, for STs it can be a total nightmare as they simply won't have the ability to make use of the setting and will keep on drifting into the wrong position, which will reduce passing outlets. I've began to use it on the wings and for the MCa and left my big lump STs on lower CF and no free role and the difference is immediately obvious.

We originally set Free Roles in this order: FCa, MCa, FCd, wingers. I think I'd be more inclined to go MCa, wingers, FCd, FCa now. I love the midfield movement with this set up. However, at the top level with a creative FC, then I'd certainly give him his head.

[displaced_seagull]

Yeah, I can see that - I think Creative Freedom really is going to be a maker/breaker of many tactics this time around. Last game of the night sees us draw 1-1 away at Villa - went down to 10 men, and they scored a penalty, but we equalised (with the report saying 'Bent netted a real Poacher's effort', which I was quite pleased to see! - Again looked a lot better, created several good chances.

Much appreciated

[Rio_V]

Just took a scan thru the thread. Can't wait to get the game and start making some use of what looks like tons of new and useful information.

Thanks, wwfan. Brilliant.

[voidex]

Hmmm... I'm having a lot of problem with my MCa and FCa performing. Their rating is usually on the low side of 6. Perhaps it is the free role issue, even though my FCa is a FC, let me try giving free role to MCa and remove it from the FCa and see what happens.

[yonko]

I have a less attacking one (Standard) as well and I'll create a Control one once I come up against a team who park the bus. Basically the idea with the wingers came up when I figured I wanted me wingers to be my "unpredictables". The run, they cross, the thread through balls and are also my 2nd and 3rd strikers. So far they've been playing very well, the interaction between them and the fullbacks work well (if fullbacks are on FWRD Often, on Mixed only on occasion. ).

I agree with you about the fullbacks and the wingers - seeing some amazing stuff myself.

I think I've found the perfect set-up for me at the moment. I'm just smacking teams left and right - won 4-0 away vs Atletico Madrid, Iniesta, Giovinco, Alves and Bojan scoring. And that was without the injured Messi, Xavi and Eto'o!!! My tactic made Aguero finish with 5.9 match rating - using Puyol and Caceres as 2DC's.

I'm using 8-16 framework. Fullbacks and wingers on attacking roles = FWR often. FC + 2MC on support and DM + 2DC with defending roles. Width is 15, tempo 8-12 and D-line is 11-15. Setting the passing right is the key though! The back 5 is on the highest short (5), my 2MC's are on mixed (9) and TTB=often. The wingers pass on 7 and the forward is on 6. I have little CF for the back five, normal 10 for center mids, 12 for the forward and 15 for my wingers. I focus passing down both flanks because I play wide. All of this results in some great ball movement!!! And the more often I use this set-up the better my team plays!

Absolutelly cracking!!! I hope that there isn't much difference between the demo and full game. Or is there? What's your view?

[thegr8anand]

Hey guys. I am trying to use a wingerless formation. I want to use 4-2-3-1 formation. 4 Defenders DCs going back and FBs going forward, 2 MCs with barrows to DMC, 3 AMCs, middle AMC with barrow to MC and other 2 with farrows to FC and one FC. I was trying to use Standard Role Theory and set up something similar to it. I have set my 2 MCs as MC(defend) and my AMC with barrow as MC(support); other 2 AMC as MC(attack).

I think the problem might be because as with role theory my strikers mentality is lower than my 2 attack AMC's. Because a lot of the time he plays as a support striker but i want him to play as a poacher or complete forward. The midfield passing is excellent as my passing percentage is around 93 each match but i dont have proper chances or good ***** on goal. Sometimes(rarely) a midfielder plays a through ball but the striker or attacking amc are not ready and start running after the pass has been made. Also for some reason when the opposition is attacking from the one wing my players leave the other wing, even middle area undefended even when i have 4 defenders and 2 dMC's. Also looks as if they have a lot of confusion for example a lot of times my attacking AMC starts running together side-by-side with my FB as if they are jogging instead of providing short pass option or something similar. All my AMCs get poor ratings unless they score and same is the case with the striker. The goals I get are usually from freekicks or a wondergoal or long shot.

I am playing as chelsea and have have and bought quality players so have no problem in that department. Just the tweaking of tactics. Have a look and suggest me something if you can. Thanks.

http://rapidshare.com/files/164554705/My_Wingerless_1.tac

[displaced_seagull]

Thank You!

Since implementing the changes;

Spurs v Ipswich - Win 1-0 (A)

Spurs v Aston Villa - Draw 1-1 (A)

Spurs v Slovan Liberec - Win 1-0 (A)

Spurs v Everton - Draw 0-0 (H)

Spurs v Fulham - Win 4-2 (A)

Spurs v Club Brugge - Draw 1-1 (A)

Spurs v West Ham - Draw 0-0 (H)

Spurs v Newcastle - Win 2-1 (H)

Spurs v Middlesbrough - Win 2-0 (A)

Spurs v Levski Sofia - Win 3-1 (H)

Went to bed for about half an hour. Couldn't sleep, so got up and have been playing FM all night. Brilliant

[Mitja]

very inspiring read i enjoyed every word of it!! i defenetly recomend reading all 50 sites of TT&F '09 as translation of real life football into FM words. i haven't been excited about FM like this for long time now..

still haven't started a game as i was too buisy fixing some things on editor :green:

..gonna start with ungelled-mighty-spurs!!

[crazy gra]

Hey guys. I am trying to use a wingerless formation. I want to use 4-2-3-1 formation. 4 Defenders DCs going back and FBs going forward, 2 MCs with barrows to DMC, 3 AMCs, middle AMC with barrow to MC and other 2 with farrows to FC and one FC. I was trying to use Standard Role Theory and set up something similar to it. I have set my 2 MCs as MC(defend) and my AMC with barrow as MC(support); other 2 AMC as MC(attack).

I think the problem might be because as with role theory my strikers mentality is lower than my 2 attack AMC's. Because a lot of the time he plays as a support striker but i want him to play as a poacher or complete forward. The midfield passing is excellent as my passing percentage is around 93 each match but i dont have proper chances or good ***** on goal. Sometimes(rarely) a midfielder plays a through ball but the striker or attacking amc are not ready and start running after the pass has been made. Also for some reason when the opposition is attacking from the one wing my players leave the other wing, even middle area undefended even when i have 4 defenders and 2 dMC's. Also looks as if they have a lot of confusion for example a lot of times my attacking AMC starts running together side-by-side with my FB as if they are jogging instead of providing short pass option or something similar. All my AMCs get poor ratings unless they score and same is the case with the striker. The goals I get are usually from freekicks or a wondergoal or long shot.

I am playing as chelsea and have have and bought quality players so have no problem in that department. Just the tweaking of tactics. Have a look and suggest me something if you can. Thanks.

http://rapidshare.com/files/164554705/My_Wingerless_1.tac

I'd start off by saying you don't have the correct roles assigned to each of your players. With a 4-2-3-1 in a standard tactic (3 defend, 4 support, 3 attack), you should assign these roles:

- Defend: the two DCs and an MC

- Support: the full backs, an MC and the central AMC

- Attack: the FC and the side AMCs

wwfan or Millie might have a different idea to this, with the side AMCs playing a support role and the central AMC and an MC being attack players. I'm not too sure as I just play boring 4-4-2. Similarly with a 4-3-3, I wouldn't even be sure whether to have the AMR/L as attack or support.

Anyway, have the FC on FWRs rarely so he links up to the 5 midfielders. Your full backs should only be on FWRs often in an attacking tactics, so perhaps this is why your defence isn't too solid. Also, if you bought in a few players it might be the case that they haven't gelled yet so don't rely on them too much. Even players like Tevez at Man Utd who were at the club in the previous season take a while to settle in.

[fgu82]

Wonderful thread, really jaw-dropping!. One thing though, the excel file in the download link doesn't open with Office2003, maybe a solution to that?

[Sansom]

can someone explain on the formation screens where you have:

GK: 8

DC: 6

DC: 8

what do those numbers mean? are they the mentality?

[wwfan]

can someone explain on the formation screens where you have:

GK: 8

DC: 6

DC: 8

what do those numbers mean? are they the mentality?

Slider clicks assigning mentality. Far left is 1, far right 20.

[Terry85]

Has the slider number-amount-of-clicks problem been fixed with the patch?

[wwfan]

Has the slider number-amount-of-clicks problem been fixed with the patch?

Don't know. I have a Mac, thus no patch

[Terry85]

Oh, thanks for the quick reply!

and, for the effort and time spent making this years Tactical Theorems and Frameworks such great quality!

[DB1]

Wow. Just had a quick look, this is amazimg. I'l gonna be reading this all night when i get back. Thanks guys.

[Mike J]

I'm currently using a 4-4-1-1 formation based on the TT&F default tactic. However, I've lowered CF a bit (my Boro side are a little low on technically gifted players) and I'm experimenting with no Free Roles for anyone.

My problem is that I can't control games particularly well and away from home even the Defensive formation is conceding too many goals and not keeping possession enough. When the tactic works well it does what I want - the MCd drops back a bit, the MCa links well with the AMC in the hole and I get good movement and interchange between the lone striker and AMC. But I still don't really score enough, especially not with my striker.

I'm thinking that reducing CF even more and maybe slowing the tempo might help but at the moment literally nothing seems to help, especially away from home. I'm getting thrashed 3-0 and 5-0 by the top sides and losing to relegation candidates like Hull and Wigan and never looking like winning.

[crazy gra]

You want to have low CF for the defend roles and low-medium for support in defensive tactics, but you still need quite a bit on the attack role players. Also in a defensive 4-4-1-1, you might be best having your FC as a poacher striker so that he has the instructions to chase balls over the top and into the channels.

[wwfan]

I'm not sure if no free roles and CF is the answer. That will limit the break opportunities. I'd certainly think at giving the AMC a lot of freedom. I'd also suggest adding a few OIs away from home. Spending a bit of time targeting danger/weak players in the opposition can really help. I suspect you are getting beaten on the flanks and will need to OI Close Down wingers. That would certainly be the case if you are conceding from crossed balls. However, if it is through balls that are killing you, then tight mark the opposing creative players to reduce their time and space on the ball.

crazy gra's advice is also good.

[Mike J]

Wouldn't tight marking possibly be a bad idea against creative players because it could give them a chance to beat their man more easily? I suppose it depends on the type of creative player the opponents have.

My defence is OK against the cross - having Santon on the right wing helps as he's a good DR too so help sout there and my defence and keeper are good in the air. I think it's really just conceding possession too easily that's the problem.

[Uncle_Sam]

I thought Buxton originated the Swoosh/Nike defense?

[wwfan]

Wouldn't tight marking possibly be a bad idea against creative players because it could give them a chance to beat their man more easily? I suppose it depends on the type of creative player the opponents have.

My defence is OK against the cross - having Santon on the right wing helps as he's a good DR too so help sout there and my defence and keeper are good in the air. I think it's really just conceding possession too easily that's the problem.

You have to work out where and why it is happening and adjust from there. It could be that certain players aren't moving into position for the pass and thus need a free role/higher CF, or it could be that they are drifting too far away from the man in possession and making his passing option too difficult, in which case the opposite applies. You might not be clearing your lines quickly enough, in which case increase tempo and passing length, or you might not be able to keep possession high up the pitch, which will mean shorter passing, more HUB and more movement.

Tight marking is good against a creative player. Closing down is risky.

[Navie]

WWFAN or anyone knows please answer this simple question:

Even though I will give my players individual instructions depending on their roles and whether to defend, attack or support etc. Does the TT&F's document say that you should also employ match strategy of 'standard', 'attacking' or 'defensive'? I only ask this because I woke up this morning after reading the TT&F's document last night and confused about if I should use a certain team instruction as well as individual player instructions. Thanks.

I'm thinking of using something very similar to the mentality setting of 'The rule of one' because i'm managing a League 2 side (Accrington).

For a MCd...does he have to be a defensive midfielder playing in the MC position or is it someone who is defensively good? Also is this the same for the MCa?...does he have to be an AMC? I'm asking this because I want to play 4-4-2 (thats the flat back 4, flat midfield line with 2 strikers). Obviously I will set the MCd with lower mentality and the MCa with higher mentality etc.

Thats enough questions from me

[Richard76]

Fantastic work here gents. A really well written guide.

I was struggling a bit with tactics this time around. Just could not defend against route 1 football.

As I'm playing in League 1 I decided the rule of one setup was the way to go.

I prefer a 4 5 1 formation and found the tactic on that excel spreadsheet really good.

I've used that and now defending really well. The problem I have is none of my strikers are playing particually well up front on their own.

Any suggestions??

Also, how are people finding using individual passing instructions??

In 08 I started off with a mixed global passing style. If i was chasing a game I'd go more direct/quick and push more men forward never altering my formation though. If I was defending a lead I'd go short/slow.

How can I go about implementing this on 09???

[Mitja]

I think one of the main issue for everyone will be free roles. For players who can use them, it transforms a tactic, even more so when the squad is gelled. For those that can't, or in an ungelled squad, it hinders and disjoints play.

Personally, I think our recommendation to use it for the FCa is probably slightly flawed. If the FCa is an FC rather than an ST, he will be brilliant. However, for STs it can be a total nightmare as they simply won't have the ability to make use of the setting and will keep on drifting into the wrong position, which will reduce passing outlets. I've began to use it on the wings and for the MCa and left my big lump STs on lower CF and no free role and the difference is immediately obvious.

We originally set Free Roles in this order: FCa, MCa, FCd, wingers. I think I'd be more inclined to go MCa, wingers, FCd, FCa now. I love the midfield movement with this set up. However, at the top level with a creative FC, then I'd certainly give him his head.

i was surprised when reading strikers should be the first to assign with free roles. from RL football perspective i'd say position isn't that important when assigning free roles, it's player ability and manager prefferences. same goes for creative freedom but it should be linked a little more to positions than FRs.

i intend to play my FCa (d. bent) on poacher role. in one friendly, i played so far with small tweaks compared to your poacher role (without FR, RwB mixed), i noticed his movement isn't like i wanted to be- too much roaming around, probably down to high CF. but he's not the player with high CF/FR ability. i wonder why is so important to have high amounts of creative freedom for all strikers-striker roles in TT&F? what i'm going to do is to play bent as poacher without FR and high CF. and pavlyuchenko as un-ticked target-man. just like they play IRL imo. i noticed the instructions for Target man and Advanced Playmaker are quite similar but major difference in these two roles should be- amounts of CF being much higher for Playmake (and free role of course). i just don't see pavlyuchenko doing modrić's job.

what do you think, is this striker partnership destined to not work, becouse of lower amounts of CF and no FR? any thoughts? i'll try to assign pavlyichenko with FR in attacking tactics..

and a few more questions, (i know you're gonna say, experimente!! ) but what would be your recomendations for free roles and CF in ungelled squad, to start with? to lower it both? to give it to players who have the right ability? to start with more cautious approach without any really high CF players and without free role roles?

[Mitja]

oh i forgot the most important question, should we apply Specialist Position roles from beggining as the squad gets used to it? or keep things simple? i'm talking about totally ungelled squad..

[luckygz]

so when they say defense 8 or defense 8 or attack 16

that means move the slider that many spaces from the left?

[displaced_seagull]

so when they say defense 8 or defense 8 or attack 16

that means move the slider that many spaces from the left?

Yep, bang on.

[displaced_seagull]

i intend to play my FCa (d. bent) on poacher role. in one friendly, i played so far with small tweaks compared to your poacher role (without FR, RwB mixed), i noticed his movement isn't like i wanted to be- too much roaming around, probably down to high CF. but he's not the player with high CF/FR ability. i wonder why is so important to have high amounts of creative freedom for all strikers-striker roles in TT&F? what i'm going to do is to play bent as poacher without FR and high CF. and pavlyuchenko as un-ticked target-man. just like they play IRL imo. i noticed the instructions for Target man and Advanced Playmaker are quite similar but major difference in these two roles should be- amounts of CF being much higher for Playmake (and free role of course). i just don't see pavlyuchenko doing modrić's job.

Pavyluchenko started really poorly for me - couldn't score, low morale etc. Had the odd chance, but nothing to write home about. However, recently he's started to improve - came off the bench to score a brilliant late goal in a 3-1 win against Levski for me in the last game. I wouldn't expect miracles straight away, especially if you are playing him in the Creative Forward/Playmaker role as I was. Worth persevering with though.

[Justified]

Been testing switching the FCd and FCa mentalities around. Theory behind it is the furthest forward player gets the ball. Mixed FWRD Runs either he meets the ball and holds for the FCd (who is now on FWRD Runs Often) or goes deep because he's the first line of attack. Just tried this with Torres / Keane and Torres banged in a hattrick.

[Chrisz]

Absoultely great guide here, smashing in fact. Been playing CM and FM games for like ages and this is probably one of the best pieces of literature written on FM!Keep up the good work, simply fantastic

Just a small request though, any chance a kind soul is able to translate the document to Excel 2003? As i cant see to be able to view it properly when i change the type of playing style. Alternatively is there any way round it??

Much thanks

[Mitja]

Tall & Slow Attackers: OI wingers to go inside

Short & Quick Attackers: OI wingers to go outside

Tall & Quick Attackers: OI wingers onto wrong foot

what does this above mean if the winger is right-footed? tall & slow - show onto right foot?

[Mitja]

Tall & Slow Attackers: OI wingers to go inside

Short & Quick Attackers: OI wingers to go outside

Tall & Quick Attackers: OI wingers onto wrong foot

what does this above mean if the winger is right-footed? tall & slow - show onto right foot?

[twellsy69]

lol bit perplexed.....on the wizard it doesnt say anything about certain things like defensive line.....plus do u have to input all the details in yourself or can u save it and import to game as a tac file? if so how

[tdc5013]

Is there anyway to add these tactics into the game without having to do them one by one on the tactics page?

Also, when using the combination of FCa and FCd, would you recommend a barrow on the FCd? Or should I just rely on his instructions instead?

[Guest Tbrauer]

Thanks for this looks a great guide

[alanricouk]

Whats the best defence set up you can have for a back four with a DM just in front?

I keep leaking goals and its gay.

[crazy gra]

Tall & Slow Attackers: OI wingers to go inside

Short & Quick Attackers: OI wingers to go outside

Tall & Quick Attackers: OI wingers onto wrong foot

what does this above mean if the winger is right-footed? tall & slow - show onto right foot?

No. Show them inside is to show them on the the opposite foot to the side they play on i.e. show onto left foot for a right winger, show onto right foot for a left winger.

Yep, bang on.

Not quite. 8 means the 8th notch along, so should be 7 clicks from the left.

[wwfan]

Even though I will give my players individual instructions depending on their roles and whether to defend, attack or support etc. Does the TT&F's document say that you should also employ match strategy of 'standard', 'attacking' or 'defensive'? I only ask this because I woke up this morning after reading the TT&F's document last night and confused about if I should use a certain team instruction as well as individual player instructions. Thanks.

Individual mentality overrides team, so you can ignore the team mentality slider if you are setting mentality player by player. I design five tatics and load between them depending on the opponent and/or match situation.

For a MCd...does he have to be a defensive midfielder playing in the MC position or is it someone who is defensively good? Also is this the same for the MCa?...does he have to be an AMC? I'm asking this because I want to play 4-4-2 (thats the flat back 4, flat midfield line with 2 strikers). Obviously I will set the MCd with lower mentality and the MCa with higher mentality etc.

They just have to be midfielders with the right mentality settings. Because of injury I'm playing a MC/AMC in the MCd position as he has good tackling and positioning stats and he's thriving.

Been testing switching the FCd and FCa mentalities around. Theory behind it is the furthest forward player gets the ball. Mixed FWRD Runs either he meets the ball and holds for the FCd (who is now on FWRD Runs Often) or goes deep because he's the first line of attack. Just tried this with Torres / Keane and Torres banged in a hattrick.

I think this could well be worth an experiment for those struggling to score or wanting to play the stronger player further forward with the quicker player breaking from deep. I may have a play around with this myself.

Excel 2003: Requires a complete rewrite for the wizard to work. It does work on OpenOffice 3.0. A link is provided in the opening post. However, the crib sheet does much of its job if you don't want to download an additional word processing program.

Is there anyway to add these tactics into the game without having to do them one by one on the tactics page?

Also, when using the combination of FCa and FCd, would you recommend a barrow on the FCd? Or should I just rely on his instructions instead?

I believe you can edit them in to the user preset_tactics folder. That's how I'd do it.

Maybe someone can confirm.

THe barrow will depend on his ability. If he is very strong and can hold the ball up, the barrow will ensure he plays with his bavk to goal, so will help. However, if you want him to break forward, then no barrow (FWRs mixed)

Whats the best defence set up you can have for a back four with a DM just in front?

Is the DMC failing to break up play before it reaches the d-line. That would be my fisrt thought. If so, significantly increase his CD so he gets forward and combats the ball in the right areas. I'd also look at OI Closing Down wingers to stop crosses being so dangerous.

[alanricouk]

I want to use Robbie Keane and Torres as target men.

What does 'Run onto ball' mean? Does that mean kick the ball in front of their runs they will be making?

[wwfan]

I want to use Robbie Keane and Torres as target men.

What does 'Run onto ball' mean? Does that mean kick the ball in front of their runs they will be making?

Yes. However, you can only use one target man at a time.

[Moverman98]

Great guide

[Navie]

Thanks wwfan for reply

[alanricouk]

Yes. However, you can only use one target man at a time.

Doesnt matter anyway, its crap.

Im still having trouble of opposition men being unmarked in a box. What settings should I use? Like if theres a scramble, they always seem to have a man unmarked who always seems to score.

[wwfan]

Doesnt matter anyway, its crap.

Im still having trouble of opposition men being unmarked in a box. What settings should I use? Like if theres a scramble, they always seem to have a man unmarked who always seems to score.

I don't think there's an answer to that. In broken play scrambles, pretty much anything can happen. The only issue might be that you have too many players out of the box.

[3889011]

wwfan what do you suggest if AI players are in my opinion closing down superfast, tackling so much better than mine. What tactical settings do I have to set?

[alanricouk]

No, they all huddle round the ball like five year olds trying to kick it away. Then, it falls to one of the men I have said tight mark in OI. It annoys me.

[badgerwhacker]

wwfan, I'm currently playing a game in the SPL with Accies with a 4-5-1 formation. Having read through your guide i understand the importance of the team being a unit where there is always options.

I've implemented the defensive, standard and attacking options along with your views on who should support and when but I've still only managed 2 goals in TEN games. Where am I going wrong?