FM09 Demo - injuries

[Weller1980]

five injuries in just one match alone, if i knew how to upload a screen shot i would!! Apart from this major problem its a fantastic game!!

lol Ive just news on my injuries

Gerrard - 2 weeks out

Torres - 5 months out

Kuyt - 1 month out

Babel - 1 month out

Mascherano - 1 month

This was one match, and all players at start of match were 90 plus on condition, this is so rubbish, its such a shame this demo is ruined by these totally stupid injuries!!!!!!!

[JoblessManager]

lol Ive just news on my injuries

Gerrard - 2 weeks out

Torres - 5 months out

Kuyt - 1 month out

Babel - 1 month out

Mascherano - 1 month

This was one match, and all players at start of match were 90 plus on condition, this is so rubbish, its such a shame this demo is ruined by these totally stupid injuries!!!!!!!

The demo is the retail version remember.

[rageofreaper]

Its a crock of ***** to be honest. as if this wasnt caught in playtesting. absolutely ruined the demos release. i was totally looking forward to this game, but these injury issues, as well as th various others (ludicrous amount of extra time, players playing really poorly very consistently (ive played it for years, its not me!!) players not been rated like they should be, transfer values been all over the place (arshavin went to man city for 11 million. i only had a bid accepted, as man utd, at 28 million)

i've only played for 4 hours or so, but i am so hacked off. its just shoddy. who actually playtests the game? or is that what the demo is? are you just using our feedback because your too cheap to release a demo that hasnt got game breaking issues??

[gemmell]

Talk about deja vu. Was it CM4 or FM08 where this was a major issue as well and took a while to sort out?

[turn it in]

I've survived quite a few games into a season and while pre-season I did have a lot of injuries they seem to have sorted themselves out now. Paul, I would urge you, like others, to look at injury lengths though. I've just had Grant Basey twist his ankle and he is out for a month and that seems a tad excessive.

[srwlml23]

I'm seeing the more you play the less injuries you get... or is that just me wishful thinking

[Roo]

Ok, as match injuries fall under my responsibility here is my take.

Yes, there are a few too many, but I wont be allowing the patch to go out with too few either as they are part and parcel of modern football as one can see from the real life injury tables.

A major thing for the user to remember is that tired players get injured easier. So pre-season is a real danger time.....treat those games as run-outs and replace players who are tired at half time etc.

What I intend to do for the patch is:

- Reduce the pre-season condition drop ( players coming back from summer at 75% etc ) in order to reduce pre-season injuries

- Make a higher proportion of match injuries of the lighter variety

Cheers,

Paul Collyer

IMHO, this is not good enough.

All you do is try to explain why injuries may occur, ignoring th fact that the circumstances in the game are totally unrealistic.

In no way do you ever see this many injuries occur in matches, there's hardly one every second match IRL. Of course injuries occur but most happen on the training field and really are minor.

On this demo way too many come from tackles on the pitch, and have nothing to do with the condition of the player. (In fact i'd say it is unlikely that lacking condition increases the likelyhood of injuries as a result of challenges. Strains and such are of course linked to condition but fractures are not.)

I really hope you reconsider your initial post and think of another way to sort out this issue

[Wooderson]

It's your tactics

[rageofreaper]

ha, id literally taken 5 mins out to write my post, just nipped back on the game, first news post, scholes out for 2 months after pulling a muscle in the gym (no, i havnt changed the training to heavy), second post, rooney injured for 1 month playing for the reserves, in his first game back from been injured for 2 months!!! what the hell!! i've had to play possebon and fletcher for 9 of the 11 prem games ive played, because EVERYONE else ha been out. manucho has played more the berb and rooney combined because of injuries, and ronaldo played 2 games when he got back from his summer injury, and has been out ever since. not cool SI. not cool at all

[berggren75]

Stuff you patch what the heck were you doing when this was being tested????????? DID it get tested before you went gold? Did YOU ever play the game Paul? If you did why did you not sort it before gold? You MUST have saw the issues.

Can you imagine people buying this and not knowing about patching games and them trying to play it?

Utterly shocking Paul and shows SI in a very poor light, another shambles and to be honest its been like that since CM4....

There will come a time when hardcore SI fans like myself will turn and not buy this crap and you will go bust....get it sorted.

Perhaps you want to grovel back to Eidos as they are releasing theirs in April time and no doubt will be better polished and actually tested before release.

I find it an insult that you release this product with basic bugs and errors and have the audacity to say its tested...

You need to take a pill or something.

You're getting way to worked up over this.

Show some respect.

[Indi75]

This is all somewhat odd, I've played several hours now and numerous games with no more than a niggle for Arbeloa.

[well-made]

Strarted playing the demo this morning as Motherwell.

my assistant informed me he was worried about the goalkeeper being the weakest position. So using about a 1/4 of my whopping £50K transfer kitty, I bring in a keeper, also had a bid and a contract accepted by another keeper but decided to cancel his transfer.

First training session my new keeper is out with a hip problem for 2 months, that's seeing a specialist.

[Cullen89]

I don't think homerjnick deserves to be reprimanded for what he said as the essence of it was very much true and on a lot of our minds. Let's not make any bones about this, the injuries issue has basically killed the demo and for me I can't see any reason to play if half your team is going to be decimated before a ball has been even kicked. The release of the demo with one of many glaring bugs is nothing short of a shambles.

[Soup_is_cool]

Add 2 more player injured...

[Will Smith]

You need to take a pill or something.

You're getting way to worked up over this.

Show some respect.

what the hell are you going on about. He's highlighted a basic fact. Respect is earnt, and this doesnt happen when a game has gone gold with a blindingly obvious bug like this

[Weller1980]

lol Ive just news on my injuries

Gerrard - 2 weeks out

Torres - 5 months out

Kuyt - 1 month out

Babel - 1 month out

Mascherano - 1 month

This was one match, and all players at start of match were 90 plus on condition, this is so rubbish, its such a shame this demo is ruined by these totally stupid injuries!!!!!!!

I now have another 2 first team players injured.....

Im now going to stop playing the demo, as i feel its unplayerable, I dont expect any FM titles to be released bug free, but this is a very big oversight, and the worst part is SI have not yet confirmed its a definate problem.

I played pre-season very carfefully making sure players condition diddnt drop to low and that every player is match fit fot the start of the season, I never play players who are below 90% fit and allways sub off players who are strugling this is basic player management. If I am missing a trick please let know and I will have a re-try.

SI I know you will do your best to look into this problem and I hope you fix this injury probelm sooner rather than later, 500 plus people can not be wrong on this matter, injuries are a BIG problem, please fix it SI!! I have every faith in you.

[yankee_ram]

I am now a victim of the injury bug, four games in and 5 of my players are out with injuries.

Paul Green: 4 weeks

Robbie Savage: 5 weeks

Nacir Barazite: 2 weeks

Tito Villa: 6 weeks

Miles Addison: 3 months

Come on, this is unrealistic.

[samuelburrowsuk]

I have given up on the demo entirely. This makes buying the game a real lottery, just have to hope the 1st patch gives considerable improvement or else it will be a case of grovelling to a retailer for my money back.

[L19Messidona]

This is crazy !!!!!!!!!

[Valenciaingles]

Problems with injuries and ttyyyyppppiiinnnngggg problem here, but now demo has been released all these problems have been flagged up. which can only be good news, as it allows SI 2 weeks to work riduculously hard to solve what appears to be a pretty fundamental flaw in the game.

That said by much squad rotation i have hardly suffered any injuries at all, just david villa repeatedly injuring himself.

I believe come the 14th the patch should solve these basic problems and make it a whole lot better to play, just need that patch to be ready to solve all the problems!!!!

[catafan]

A major thing for the user to remember is that tired players get injured easier. So pre-season is a real danger time.....treat those games as run-outs and replace players who are tired at half time etc.

But pre-season matches are 'FRIENDLY'! Have you ever seen pre-season friendly games injured 3-4 players in real life? Even you do have, is it as frequently as what happens in FM09?

[yankee_ram]

Ok well I just had 4 injuries in one game bringing my injury total to 9 first team players out in 6 games, I hope this trend does not continue when the full version comes out.

[Herter]

not sorry as much but a bit of justification on why this has slipped through

That i'll agree on

[berggren75]

what the hell are you going on about. He's highlighted a basic fact. Respect is earnt, and this doesnt happen when a game has gone gold with a blindingly obvious bug like this

Ah yes, and the many years of releasing an excellent game which has topped the charts year after year has not earned them any respect?

I do not disagree with the fact that the demo is rubbish, but the way he is voicing his opinions is just not acceptable.

It is juvenile or should I say infantile?

[Herter]

"Are you suggesting SI says sorry to you? - for what? letting a bug slip through THEIR game? - Perhaps they could say sorry to themselves, but I dont think that'll make the bug go away.. Just let them do their best at fixing the bug for a patch.."

No they really don't have anything to apologise for, you're right. But when we, the players, find a really obvious bug and report it, we really shouldn't call it moaning and saying sorry... That's my point

Well, then we agree Only thing I would like is for people to report errors in a mature manner, by constructive criticism.

[Snugglehatcher]

First friendly match: 3 first team players injured in first 45 minutes, 1 sub injured, starting condition was 90%+

Second friendly match, 3 days apart, not a single player or sub that played in the prior match had their condition over 70%, so I subbed in the players that didnt play, 2 injuries.

Third friendly match, 3 days apart, very few of the original first team had their condition over 85%, but I had to play them, 6 injuries total.

Three matches, I picked two different sides, 12 injured players.

It seems like the condition of the players drained faaaar too quickly during the match, was regained far too slowly which, in turn, produced a ridiculous amount of injuries.

How in the world did the test team miss this?

[Herter]

if the former is the case then why rewrite it, it was perfectly fine before? if the latter is true then why hasn't it been snuffed out before the demo was released? regardless of whether it's fixed with an early patch, leaving a bug that obvious in a demo release will lead to some people not buying the game

i think it would be a very bad idea to mess with that match engine close to release, as that was supposedly what caused the closing down bug last year, and possibly the problems with injuries this time around

As to why is might have been rewritten I of course cannot answer, but as a programmer myself I perhaps can relate a little. Sometimes things change within the code that requires something else that is "connected" to the changed code to be changed aswell.. Its not as easy as some might think.. otherwise the bugs wouldnt be there

[yankee_ram]

I am all for constructive critisism, but I think that the amount of injuries that are happening so quickly in the game are very unrealistic. There is no way 9 of your first team players get injured in the first 5 matches. I just hope that SI fix this before the full game comes out.

[We_Are_138]

The only thing I've found to be a problem in the demo is the injury situation. I now have 9 first team players out and a couple who have just returned from injury and I'm only 4 games into the season. The training schedule is 'medium' and my tactics include 'light' tackling. I'm not playing unfit players either; none of them have started a game below 91% condition wise.

[Tyke]

Well, I am no doctor but there are theories out there that fatigue increases injury. Its something we do simulate in the game.

As an example - http://www.theacc.com/genrel/061704aaa.html

Paul

The problem is entirely created by the rate of attrition for player's condition during matches - whether there is a higher rate of attrition during the early part of the season I dont know - but this attrition is what is leading to most of the injuries for BOTH humans and AI teams alike. For example, I just played my 8th match (4th competitive match) on 16th August with Man City, I have two fitness coaches so they can concentrate on one discipline each (and they are both rated at seven stars) and I have cycled my players where possible during the pre season and even rested the first team for a week, yet certain positions are falling below 60 percent condition by the end of the match after starting it in the mid 90's.

I would just like to echo what someone else said earlier - the patched version of FM 08 seemed to be just right, so can't you use that as some kind of a template?

[homerjnick]

thanks.. that is a constructive way of "moaning" - something other people could learn from..

Yeah, I did that in CM4 and FM05.

Now that I am trying FM09 and the same damn bugs are coming out then I am tending to vent my frustation a lot harder.

Do I have to upload a save game with screenshots for the SAME bugs very year? Cos it seems like it.

Simply put SI have balls this up again with the same old issues, the demo is a good demo of showing off the features of the game but it is unplayable and that is what we are going to get our hands on, on 14th of November.

Not good enough!!!!!

I would suggest that SI release a game every 2 years and just charge a little bit more to get it right.

And I'm not attacking Paul, I am having a go at SI and since he is a representative of SI AND he looks after the ME then I have every right to ask what the hell is going on with testing....

[stingy]

Well, I am no doctor but there are theories out there that fatigue increases injury. Its something we do simulate in the game.

As an example - http://www.theacc.com/genrel/061704aaa.html

Paul

Indeed but these are usually stress fractures due to overtraining, shin splints and mainly cramp. If a player comes in at you then you have the same chance of breaking a bone whether you are fatigued or not. Stress fractures will be rare because footballers do the majority of there training on soft surfaces such as grass.

Pulled muscles whilst sprinting when fatigued do not occur so often as the game appears to think, otherwise you would see an athlete or two fall in the last 100m in every middle distance/endurance race.

[saberhagen83]

The biggest problem I've had with the demo so far has been this injury bug. Took over Arsenal and ended up with most of my 1st team squad in the treatment room after my pre-season. Nearly knocked out of the CL thanks to this. After playing a few league games (going horrible ) my injury situation is getting better, and while still getting a injury here and there they are shorter and fewer than during pre-season. Just hope it holds up, though my players are getting really tired in every match.

Thing is, taking players of at half time or so doesn't help. I usually play 2 sets of teams during pre-season, 1st teamers and then change to the reserve team at HT. Doesn't help when you get 3-4 players injured after only 10-15min! Funny thing is though that every injured player was in the 1st team, my reserves/u18 players only 1 player got injured. Why? They were just as tired as the rest of the players. Can't belive how this managed to slip through testing. Why change it from patched 08? You could have injury crisis in that too, but not like this...this is way way way over the top!

[Lobaeux]

Maybe I'm the exception, but I started a game as Lyon. Only one injury, to Clerc, not sure if he's injured in real life or not.

Then, the FIRST thing I did was set up my training.

I made sure there was at least a 5 star coach for aerobics and strength. I wasn't too worried about the others, but I did as best I could with my budget.

I think used Tug's training schedules from FM08. They work like a champ.

I've gone through 4 friendlies so far, not a single injury.

Also, I believe rationing the players, especially at the beginning is the best way to go about it. If a player is fatigued, I'm not gonna start him or sub him in.

So far this policy has worked, it's made me be more hands-on, and I'm enjoying the demo so far.

I'm interested in seeing the effects of physios in FM09, I always felt they were there to just give me an idea on when a player was back, but not much else. I'm hoping they have more involvement in getting players back quicker from injury.

[Woria]

The game isn't playable atm because of all the injuries. Well it is playable if you succeed by using your youth squad/reserves instead of your first team.

[urbanjunkie]

I have a theory

Remember all the bugs in 2008, I think the injury bug as been put in so everyone spends all their time focusing on it, and all the other bugs go un noticed.

If you look back to that fateful day in Dallas, I'm certain Marc Duffy can be seen peaking out of the bookstore depository.

[metal_guitarist]

8 players off injured in two matches, all out for month-2months. Not one player with fitness above 85%

This really needs sorting SI, it's spoiling what had the potential to be a really good game.

[urbanjunkie]

Maybe I'm the exception, but I started a game as Lyon. Only one injury, to Clerc, not sure if he's injured in real life or not.

Then, the FIRST thing I did was set up my training.

I made sure there was at least a 5 star coach for aerobics and strength. I wasn't too worried about the others, but I did as best I could with my budget.

I think used Tug's training schedules from FM08. They work like a champ.

I've gone through 4 friendlies so far, not a single injury.

Also, I believe rationing the players, especially at the beginning is the best way to go about it. If a player is fatigued, I'm not gonna start him or sub him in.

So far this policy has worked, it's made me be more hands-on, and I'm enjoying the demo so far.

I'm interested in seeing the effects of physios in FM09, I always felt they were there to just give me an idea on when a player was back, but not much else. I'm hoping they have more involvement in getting players back quicker from injury.

My first game was a disaster. I didn't spend time on training schedules and pre-season was made up several draws and inept performances as I played around with formations and tactics. In fact, going into the friendlies most of the squad had low % re: fitness. Once the Prem season started I drew 2 games and lost 2 and by that point had about 4 players injured (during the start of the game till the point I quit I was picking up injuries much like people are complaining here).

I started a new game. Sacked my physios and most of my coaches and brought in replacements. Coach stats are not six stars, but it was far far better than what I started with. I then spent a while on creating new training schedules. Players fitness levels were into their 90%'s before pre-season started (mostly anyway).

I'm not stating there is no injury bug. I agree there is. When players pick up knocks, rather than being out for a week or so, then get 2 months on the sidelines, but at the minute, I have only ONE player who is crocked and in no way is my game unplayable. I have found NOTHING else to complain about tbh.

Either my expectations are not as high as everyone else or I'm easy to please.

[leedsforever]

Had Marlon Harewood, John Carew ,Gabriel Agbonlahor, Gareth Barry, Craig Gardner and Steve Sidwell all injured for Aston Villa. That leaves no strikers. I'm not playing the demo anymore. That and the fact that the 3d pitch is just awful and it's basically FM08 with updated transfers.

[samuelburrowsuk]

If you look back to that fateful day in Dallas, I'm certain Marc Duffy can be seen peaking out of the bookstore depository.

I love the idea of Miles Jacobsen appearing from behind the grassy knol!

[matthiele]

ive got 8 first teamers out with long term injuries. not good but im sure it will be fixed in the patch. often having 3 players go down in one game. however this is the only major problem i see in the game.

[willjurie]

Seeing as most of my injuries occur in training, as a temporary measure i've taken the training level down to 'light', as you won't see much benefit of training within the first season. I don't intend to use this save when I get the full game so i'll try this as a last resort

[christop]

6 players injured and off the field in one match. Never believed there was a bug until now. BTW second match of the season. Already got 7 injured beforehand

[LuisMadrid]

The only (and big) problem that i've found.

The game is fantastic -I love the 3D, the new system tranfer, the press, etc. -, but it's annoying getting (at least) an injury per game!.

SI fix this PLEASE!!.

[LuisMadrid]

I'm now saving before every game coz it's not funny getting injuries every single game!. I had to play a match like 5 times because every time i got a player for 3-5 months!.

SI, fixing that shouldn't be difficult.

[WoIfsong]

The injury editor (made by ruci) can be used to eliminate the injury problem for the demo. It is available for dowload in Joor's thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=55920

And guys let's give Paul a break, he was courageous enough and nice enough to reply to this thread saying that he takes the responsility.

But Paul, could you please also look at injuries during the season, not just pre-season injuries? In my game 14 players in Chelsea were injured during the first 8 games of the season (stop laughing Man U fans!), and they all had > 97% fitness at the start of a match. With your two proposed solutions, I think the outcome may still be that 14 players get injured during the first 8 games of the season, but just for shorter periods of time, which is still not very realistic. Thanks!

[Arsenal_Fan_1986]

I think there is a degree of realism with the amount of injuries, just not the length. Every week I look at the Arsenal squad and there is doubts about players playing but will be fine the week after. Then next week they come back and there may be some other doubts.

[neshiren]

Now I understand it's a new match engine and all, but if you change the injury system to how it behaved in FM 2008 8.0.2 I think it would make this game the best yet. In FM08 you could have a few long term injuries, say 2-3 and around 3-5 short term. That's the way it should be I think, a good mixture of realism and fun.

[noikeee]

Had 5 central midfielders injured in my Arsenal squad at the beginning of the demo. Plus 3 or 4 players in other positions.

I've dropped the training (didn't mess with anything in training at all, just dropped the working level bar for the "general" schedule) and the crazy injuries seem to have dropped to an acceptable level. IMO it might be a case of the default setting being too demanding on the players.

[Wee Aja]

I seem to have been very lucky so far, as far as injuries are concerned.

I've only got 2 fringe players injured at the minute.

Although looking through the injury table, most EPL teams have 6,7,8 and more first-teamers out for 3 and 4 months each, sometimes 6 months. In fact, it's always "months" apparently, and rarely days or weeks.