The Italy Thread

[Astafjevs]

I'm not more knowledgeable, I just post more sensibly and see things rationally, rather than making negative nonsense remarks in every post, in every thread I enter. We get it, you don't like Italy. Its fine.

[RBKalle]

I don't think I even was overly negative this time.

I merely listed the "good" and the "bad" from last night's game, giving credit where credit was due, regardless of my feelings about individuals or the team as a whole. I was indeed surprised by Darmian, I knew Sirigu would have been up to the task, and the two attacking midfielders worked much better than I expected.

Anyway, back to my original point: is it so "negative" and "not sensible" saying Italy were at their best when playing like Italy instead of keeping on trying to be something they can't be (because of tradition and of lack of the right kind of players)?

Do you think Paletta had a decent game? Wasn't Chiellini painfully out of his element as a left back? Didn't the three deep midfielders go in eachother's way a bit too much? Wasn't Balotelli too alone?

[football_master_94]

Where's RB at now with his 'results tell all' rhetoric?

Last night you were superb May it continue.

[Astafjevs]

I don't think I even was overly negative this time.I merely listed the "good" and the "bad" from last night's game, giving credit where credit was due, regardless of my feelings about individuals or the team as a whole. I was indeed surprised by Darmian, I knew Sirigu would have been up to the task, and the two attacking midfielders worked much better than I expected.Anyway, back to my original point: is it so "negative" and "not sensible" saying Italy were at their best when playing like Italy instead of keeping on trying to be something they can't be (because of tradition and of lack of the right kind of players)?Do you think Paletta had a decent game? Wasn't Chiellini painfully out of his element as a left back? Didn't the three deep midfielders go in eachother's way a bit too much? Wasn't Balotelli too alone?

I don't think I even was overly negative this time.I merely listed the "good" and the "bad" from last night's game, giving credit where credit was due, regardless of my feelings about individuals or the team as a whole. I was indeed surprised by Darmian, I knew Sirigu would have been up to the task, and the two attacking midfielders worked much better than I expected.Anyway, back to my original point: is it so "negative" and "not sensible" saying Italy were at their best when playing like Italy instead of keeping on trying to be something they can't be (because of tradition and of lack of the right kind of players)?Do you think Paletta had a decent game? Wasn't Chiellini painfully out of his element as a left back? Didn't the three deep midfielders go in eachother's way a bit too much? Wasn't Balotelli too alone?

I think we can combine elements of the old Italy with the 'new' style. I don't think we would have won the game last night if we didn't control the ball for long periods, like Spain would do. And given our draw, in terms of the venues for our group matches, is terrible, I think we need to continue along that path.

Paletta - absolutely was terrible. I dont understand why Abate didn't play, meaning Darmian at left back.

Chiellini - did OK in the circumstances. Full back exposes his lack of pace, but he used his smarts to get by. You could see he was a full-back before in the way he played, but didn't have the pace to keep up with England's forwards. As above, don't understand why Chiellini was moved.

Three midfielder - thought it worked great. None of them want to get forward in support, which led to Balotelli being isolated sometimes. They all want the ball at their feet. But their presence was important in controlling the game, and it isn't like we didn't great chances with all the possession. The only way to get support for Balotelli from central areas would be to move Marchisio inside, but he doesn't play well for Italy there. Montolivo would have helped, but he's injured.

Balotelli - yeh he was alone at times. But I think he's a great lone forward. You can give him.the ball and he commands a double team because of his ability - that's invaluable IMO. I get the impression Marchisio is meant to support him by coming inside from the left, but its a weird role for him.

[Astafjevs]

Been trying desperately to edit that post to make it readable, but keep getting forum 'forbidden' errors.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Sirigu played well.

See? When Italy don't bring a natural left defender, that was what you got. Chiellini was uncomfortable. Paletta made Bonucci look world-class in a four-man defense. I never had doubt about Darmian. I always thought he was better than Abate was.

The midfield trio in front of the defense was a fantastic idea by Prandelli. De Rossi covered the defense. You didn't have to worry about Pirlo getting closed down because Verratti was there to help. RBKalle mentioned that the three stood in each other's way, but I saw it from a positive point of view: they were rotating well, they helped each other, contributing to the ability to keep possession. Marchisio was never uncomfortable, but he worked hard to do his best. I'll not say anything bad about Candreva today: credits for him.

Balotelli was better than usual. He helped more and made every chance count.

(Motta can still get the f*** off.)

[georginho_juventusygr]

Italy will win the World Cup unless one of the conditions below happens.

1. Balotelli doesn't feel like it.
   
2. Balotelli explodes.
   
3. Motta plays.
   
4. Candreva plays and stinks.
   
5. Bonucci keeps trying to pass and keeps misplacing the pass.
   
6. Chiellini uses his definition of "charge" and concedes penalties.
   
7. Maggio's lapse of concentration in defense.
   

Number 3 isn't surprising, but number 6 was so close to happen.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Well, what the heck was that?

[Juventus]

Well, what the heck was that?

ummm........

[Astafjevs]

No complaints. Costa Rica were better and deserved the win. We looked tired, which brings me to what I said earlier:

I think there's a decent chance we won't make the QF, but then we have a difficult group, and as I said elsewhere, we also have a difficult draw in terms of where we're playing these games.

Don't think we're coping well with the conditions. Bit of a concern ahead of match with a South American side who have had an extra day's rest.

[el sid]

No kiss for Mario

[mlyons]

Conditions? 28 degrees and sunny? That's fantastic weather!

[craigcwwe]

It's more the humidity.

God damn it Italy. Could of at least given us hope in our last game.

[mlyons]

58% humidity. So the heat index was 32 degrees. Still lovely. You Europeans don't know from weather.

[Astafjevs]

Yeh I'm not sure if those two posts were serious, so didn't respond, because it's quite blatantly different to anything Italy have played in before.

[mlyons]

Yeh I'm not sure if those two posts were serious, so didn't respond, because it's quite blatantly different to anything Italy have played in before.

That's almost exactly what the weather was in Rome today. If the Italians aren't used to playing in that weather, it's their own fault.

[Astafjevs]

It was 70% humidity. A massive difference.

[mlyons]

It really isn't. That's a terrible excuse.

[Federico]

Italy, the most exciting National football team around. We can win, and we can lose, against anyone.

[Razzler]

People saying humidity doesn't matter have never really done a lot of things in humidity

I wonder about playing in those conditions again a few days after the Manaus game too

[Astafjevs]

And then playing in them a third time on Tuesday, when the opponents have an extra day's rest. Said it so many times, but the draw is terrible for us. Playing in these venues for all three games kills any chances, even if we get out of the group. It catches up on players eventually.

Humidity is more important than temperature. Temperature isn't a problem for Italy, or any European side. Humidity is. Castellacci (Italian team doctor) made this point yesterday.

[mlyons]

I live in Atlanta. I know humidity. It's draining, but anyone in reasonable shape should be able to deal with it. I also know that 28 degrees with 58% humidity (or even 70%, which wasn't the weather report I saw) isn't that draining level of humidity.

[Razzler]

Have you ran around in it? I have

[georginho_juventusygr]

Have you ran around in it? I have

I ran around and around in Indonesia. It's about determination.

[Razzler]

but you were 7 years old and had lots of sugar ... doesn't count

[kontermann]

And then playing in them a third time on Tuesday, when the opponents have an extra day's rest. Said it so many times, but the draw is terrible for us. Playing in these venues for all three games kills any chances, even if we get out of the group. It catches up on players eventually.

Humidity is more important than temperature. Temperature isn't a problem for Italy, or any European side. Humidity is. Castellacci (Italian team doctor) made this point yesterday.

already finding excuses

[georginho_juventusygr]

but you were 7 years old and had lots of sugar ... doesn't count

You do need time to train and adapt your body. The training part is why Indonesia national team can't last more than 60 minutes in every international match.

[mlyons]

Have you ran around in it? I have

In 28 degrees with 60% humidity? Yes. I did that earlier this week, on one of the nicer days to actually be outside in Atlanta.

MLS teams play in that kind of weather for half of their season, and MLS matches are supposed to be walks in the park, right?

[deerokus]

Yeah I don't really get the heat excuse, we had what was apparently 26-27ish with at least 70%+ humidity the other day... in GLASGOW. Lovely conditions - a little energy-sapping for a pasty, out of shape Scotsman, but nothing I would have thought would be beyond a professional footballer.

[Falahk]

all that is needed is a draw in the last group game and everything will be fine, no need to complain just yet

[Razzler]

MLS teams play in that kind of weather for half of their season, and MLS matches are supposed to be walks in the park, right?

Haha, more uber defensive MLS comments. Has Daaaaave hacked your account?

[el sid]

Astaj trying the same strategy that worked so well for him with Nadal I see

[Astafjevs]

Astaj trying the same strategy that worked so well for him with Nadal I see

I'm serious ffs . Fwiw I think we'll get the draw we need to go through the group.

[RicardoW]

Climate is so important. It's underrated by lots of people. Look at a list of World Champions and the countries those World Cups were held in. Almost never a team wins a WC outside their own continent.

[mlyons]

Climate is so important. It's underrated by lots of people. Look at a list of World Champions and the countries those World Cups were held in. Almost never a team wins a WC outside their own continent.

You don't think that has more to do with crowd support than weather?

[kontermann]

Italy will lose against Ur gay and go out.

EDIT:

(to clear it up before i get banned)

[georginho_juventusygr]

... get the ball to pirlo, get the ball to balotelli and pray padre pio he will score? ...

Well, that is always the plan. Always.

[georginho_juventusygr]

But they don't really have another option up front. Simply put, Balotelli has more quality than Immobile does.

It actually worked against England. No idea why Prandelli didn't stick to the same midfield and system. Chiellini got problems on the left; so, it was understandable to move him to the center. But Motta for Verratti? Costa Rica are fast. You don't put a slow-moving and -thinking player in the middle.

[football_master_94]

Italy will lose against Ur gay and go out.

Still sore about Balo smashing Germany two years ago, I take it.

[jmr]

Italy will lose against Ur gay and go out.

Nice homophobia, reported.

[kontermann]

Nice homophobia, reported.

Then ban Homer Simpson as well

Life without humour must be a very dull life, my friend. If you call that homophobia I wonder what is wrong with you. So dont blame me if you dont get the obvious Simpson reference in my post. If you dont know the Simpsons (which is contemporary general knowledge tbh) - Life without humour must be very dull as I said.

[RBKalle]

wheres RBKalle, i find his insight really good and interesting, most of the time spot on.

I didn't want to further disrupt the thread with my negativity...

As I tried to point out after the "epic game" (to quote Prandelli) against England, Italy should play like Italy, not like a slower, more sluggish version of Spain.

The gameplan sort of worked against England because, with the sole dangerous exception of Sturridge and Sterling, they were slow and tame as well, so Italy managed to win a game that could have gone either way. But a draw would have been the fairest outcome.

Cue in the usual media bandwagon fawning all over Tiki-Italia, completely ignoring what DIDN'T WORK against England and that could have been a bigger issue against Costa Rica... Namely: slow midfield, frighteningly error-prone defensive line, Balotelli being too isolated...

And to top it all, Prandelli's changes to the lineup made those issues even more glaring.

That, overconfidence and Costa Rica's desire couldn't lead to a different outcome... Nothing worked, and I daresay it was as painful and embarrassing as some outings during Lippi's second tenure.

Can Italy survive? Likely so. But with a different mentality and for the love of God without that poor man's tiki-taka. 3-5-2 could provide better cover (with Juventus defenders playing the way they're more used to and comfortable with) and better build-up going forward.

That being said, it's appalling Prandelli has been switching back and forth between 3 or 4 playing systems that are rather different in terms of tactics and required personnel. Moreso because the changes aren't made to counter specific threats [something that a Top side shouldn't really be too worried about, as Top sides do impose their gameplan instead of adapting to the opposition], but as the result of utter uncertainty, indecision and randomness.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Well, that was it. To be honest, I don't feel any sadness, though. Just an empty feeling. Perhaps because I knew all along that Italy didn't have the quality players to win this World Cup, but that they usually had other things that made them win it.

At least, Italy went out in a memorable match.

[Astafjevs]

We didn't play well enough to stay in. The red for Marchisio was deserved. Suárez should have been sent off, but it's not like he created or scored the goal (I don't think he took the corner??).The game against Costa Rica was costly, you can't be losing to them. A draw was the minimum required.

[georginho_juventusygr]

I don't agree it was a red for Marchisio. But I can fully understand why Rodríguez gave it. So, fair enough.

I fully agree that Italy didn't play well. Against England, it was good enough. Against Costa Rica, it was indeed costly.

[Rio_V]

True. Bucky the Cannibal aside, Italy is out b/c of the Costa Rica match. So ugly that one was to watch.

Still gutted.

[Astafjevs]

I mean, there's a lot of things that's contributed. I maintain the draw was hard for us (the venues), and that contributed a bit to the second half vs. Costa Rica, where we looked tired. But switching to 3-5-2 was a horrible idea, and that performance wasn't v.good.

[georginho_juventusygr]

I think that a four-man defensive line would give Suárez and Cavani more free space. Barzagli was already struggling in keeping up with their pace.

[Philip Rolfe]

Seems Prandelli has resigned.

[Astafjevs]

Yeh he has. Shame. He bowed to the pressure and clueless people calling for players who shouldn't have been playing (Immobile) and formations that haven't worked for Italy against teams not named Spain (3-5-2).