Congratulations Tacticians

[wwfan]

I've been too busy to post much in recent days/weeks, but have been keeping an eye on the forums and catching up over breakfast. Just wanted to extend my congratulations and thanks to those that have been helping posters with tactical problems. The quality of the contributions has been fantastic. In pretty much every "help me" post, there has been a fantastic analytical response within the first 4-5 replies, in which all the problems with the tactical shape have been identified and possible solutions proffered.

When I was first asked to help with the development of the TC, this kind of wide scale sophisticated tactical knowledge was what I hoped would eventuate. With human nature being what it is, resistance to the change resulted in it being a slow burn. However, with FM14, the floodgates have opened and the depth of knowledge and scope of creativity being expressed is wonderful.

Thanks to all of you who have contributed towards making the SI Tactical Forum such a wonderful place to share new ideas and learn about FM (and making it easy to mod as well).

[Steve Odom]

Getting sentimental, are you?

[wwfan]

Getting sentimental, are you?

Very. When I first started modding this forum, it was a train wreck. You can't imagine how much it's improved over the years.

[GlesgaKillie]

wwfan, in all honesty this years version, without the sliders, has been an absolute joy. I feel the team and player instructions are very representative.

Top marks all round.

[Steve Odom]

It has. There are a lot of people her doing very interesting things with their saves. Not only that, they decide to share it with others. It really is amazing how much content can be squished into one page. Sometimes I find it even too much, since new content pushes some other interesting threads to the bottom. I've missed quite a few of them for sure.

Anyway, this is the best modded forum I've ever been part of. Always constructive, insightful comments and a really 'hands on approach' when it comes down to moving threads to subfora, Closing threads that go against the forum rules,.. So :thup:from me to all mods and all users that offer such great insights to us.

[kazm]

A year ago I still believed the ME cheated. Definately learned a lot here.

Not failing by default anymore lol. Kutgw everyone!

[wwfan]

wwfan, in all honesty this years version, without the sliders, has been an absolute joy. I feel the team and player instructions are very representative.

Top marks all round.

It's not perfect yet, but it's moving in the right direction. With a bit of fine tuning, I think we'll have a fabulously intuitive and responsive tactical module.

It has. There are a lot of people her doing very interesting things with their saves. Not only that, they decide to share it with others. It really is amazing how much content can be squished into one page. Sometimes I find it even too much, since new content pushes some other interesting threads to the bottom. I've missed quite a few of them for sure.

Anyway, this is the best modded forum I've ever been part of. Always constructive, insightful comments and a really 'hands on approach' when it comes down to moving threads to subfora, Closing threads that go against the forum rules,.. So from me to all mods and all users that offer such great insights to us.

It is not difficult to find inspiring posts in here. There are so many great ideas that you can actually get lost amongst them.

And as I said in the OP, it's ridiculously easy to mod. The GD mods are very jealous.

A year ago I still believed the ME cheated.

What did you think it did?

[RTHerringbone]

The best thing is that GD posters are biting the bullet and heading here to seek advice.

There has been a fair amount of adverse feedback about FM14, and there are issues (which will get resolved) but a lot of the negativity can be checked by applying simple, logical tactical thinking.

As a sub forum, the more people we can help and educate, the better equipped the overall FM user base will become, and that is something we should strive to achieve.

[Cleon]

The amount of quality posts and threads this year seems far greater than any other version I can remember. This part of the forum is really in a good place to dispel a lot of the fiction that has been created over in General Discussion and to help users find a solution to their issues.

Good job all

[daylight]

The best thing is that GD posters are biting the bullet and heading here to seek advice.

I am pretty sure I don't know what you mean. ....

In all truth this sub forum has now become my first stop on the forum in the morning to see what tip bits may have been added while I was in bed.

I am just putting some final touches to a new tactic from more things I have learned from this forum, some things just make perfect sense but at the same time it never occurred to me to try it.

Top stuff!

[Auqakuh]

The amount of quality posts and threads this year seems far greater than any other version I can remember. This part of the forum is really in a good place to dispel a lot of the fiction that has been created over in General Discussion and to help users find a solution to their issues.

Good job all

GD mods must be getting their tactics right, if there's a lot of movement into the right areas.

[kazm]

It's not perfect yet, but it's moving in the right direction. With a bit of fine tuning, I think we'll have a fabulously intuitive and responsive tactical module.

It is not difficult to find inspiring posts in here. There are so many great ideas that you can actually get lost amongst them.

And as I said in the OP, it's ridiculously easy to mod. The GD mods are very jealous.

What did you think it did?

A little more than a year ago I still believed that the ME would cheat by not letting you score in 25chances for 1chance against 0-1 loss matches, would give the opponents free goals from corners etc.

Now I know it's my tactics.

[Steve Odom]

A little more than a year ago I still believed that the ME would cheat by not letting you score in 25chances for 1chance against 0-1 loss matches, would give the opponents free goals from corners etc.

Now I know it's my tactics.

My Gk and defenders do hive away corners for gree and I can't tell whether its out of generosituy or just plain stupidity.

On a more serious note; I used to think the same as you. For me the big transition came when I thought of it less as a game and more as a 'What would the real life manager do' scenario book. In fact, the most interesting posts here opened my eyes in various ways about achieving that 'real life feeling'.

[David91]

It's not perfect yet, but it's moving in the right direction. With a bit of fine tuning, I think we'll have a fabulously intuitive and responsive tactical module.

Why is Counter attack box out of this year's game? Strategy is ok, but sometimes I want to use counter attacks even using Control or Att strategy, and the game doesn't allow me to, unlike earlier versions. Otherwise, great idea, but has holes.

[Auqakuh]

Why is Counter attack box out of this year's game? Strategy is ok, but sometimes I want to use counter attacks even using Control or Att strategy, and the game doesn't allow me to, unlike earlier versions. Otherwise, great idea, but has holes.

Teams counter-attack anyway on Control, and on Attacking, you're (in theory) so high up the pitch that counter attacks are either impossible or highly unlikely.

[higgins]

Teams counter-attack anyway on Control, and on Attacking, you're (in theory) so high up the pitch that counter attacks are either impossible or highly unlikely.

Teams counter attack on Control, but not so often like they were used to do in the past, when there was a specific box to tick, different settings.

[David91]

Teams counter attack on Control, but not so often like they were used to do in the past, when there was a specific box to tick, different settings.

Exactly my point.

[RTHerringbone]

Exactly my point.

The argument against this is that you can use existing Team Instructions to increase transition speeds, in the same manner as the Counter Mentality, or the counter tick box of old.

You could use more Direct Passing and / or increase your tempo; you could even change some Possession Instructions to focus passing into specific areas.

Alternatively, or in addition to the above, you could make more fundamental changes and build your Roles, Duties and Fluidity around a quicker transition.

The changes to the interface were always going to please some people and disappoint others.

However, it is important to explore the creative solutions available before deciding if the removal of options x, y or z are actually that big a deal.

Yes, we used to be able to tick a box, and it was nice and easy.

However, if you have an Attacking Mentality, and then want to create similar effects to those of the old Counter tick box, then the effectiveness of those instructions becomes diluted because you are already playing high, wide and fast.

[Auqakuh]

Not noticed any difference, personally. The team counters quickly when it can do so, and doesn't when it can't. It probably depends on the attributes of your players.

[ima92]

I have to admit that IMO the "no sliders" change was for the better, before I always felt I was behind those who pretty much tweaked every slider the game had, thus losing confidence in my tactics, thinking I wasnt able to make anything nearly as good without taking every slider into account.. now the game feels way more natural an realistic, and not so much based on an extreme analysis of the sliders..

[Cleon]

Why is Counter attack box out of this year's game? Strategy is ok, but sometimes I want to use counter attacks even using Control or Att strategy, and the game doesn't allow me to, unlike earlier versions. Otherwise, great idea, but has holes.

Can you tell me what exactly you thought ticking the counter box did please?

[MeesterCat]

I too would like to impart my thanks to a) the Devs and everyone that has contributed to the TC b) The insightful, knowledgeable and patient posters and Mods who frequent this forum.

I'm a bit of a tactical dunce and tend to rely more on man-management to get my team improving, but the quality of threads since the FM14 release has finally started to cause the scales to fall from my eyes.

Thanks to these posts and the improved TC I've been able to get a team playing the same formation but, depending on my tactical instructions, play in a completely different way without changing anything positionally and have it work and be actually visible in the ME! This makes me very happy indeed.

[MyNameIsJohn]

Conscious we've veering a bit off topic but (to the earlier poster) I try to play 'attacking' counter attack like this:

Rigid

Control

The deepest drop deep shout (to bring the defensive line back that has been dragged forward by going control)

Very direct passing

[Abramovic]

Can i be slightly cynical for a moment

Are these tacticians being helpful because more and more people are struggling with the basics ? documentation, tactics descriptions all being out of date

surely the TC could have been developed a bit more to advise, negative points of tactics etc..

[Ackter]

I'd say it's a mixture of:

a) people from GQ being redirected here a lot more than used to happen and

b) people are having to confront the idea that maybe they didn't understand how the previous tactical engine worked half as well as they thought they did

[Steve Odom]

Can i be slightly cynical for a moment

Are these tacticians being helpful because more and more people are struggling with the basics ? documentation, tactics descriptions all being out of date

surely the TC could have been developed a bit more to advise, negative points of tactics etc..

It is though. Considering how many flaws you could create in your tactic when using sliders, the current system improved your chances considerably. There is some work to be done in the UI, I agree, but most of it is down to logical thinking.

If I'd be cynical, I'd say SI creates some confusion to have people read and contribute to this forum in order to create debate about their game. Debate is always good news, but I'm not cynical and observation of all the amazing breakthroughs FM has seen over all these years back me up on this. I'd rather play FM than any other management game there is, because of the fact they hide the details, while making sure logical sense is awarded. So there's really no place for cynicism here. I even found it disturbing that such a positive OP results in any form of cynicism at all.

But hey, everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

[Abramovic]

Richard knows my way of thinking so he wont mind a bit of cynicism.I brought plenty of it in the tactical think tank at FM britain back in the day. Id be very surprised if he was happy with documentation / descriptions in the game

Whilst having a debate is fine , id hate to think that my success in the game depended purely on the forum and its members

[Steve Odom]

Whilst having a debate is fine , id hate to think that my success in the game depended purely on the forum and its members

But it's not isn't it? You would bring some logic and understanding of the game itself to this debate surely. I agree to a certain extent with what you're saying, but I don't want to overdo criticism and cynicism. It doesn't do any good, because it makes you hate the thing you're passionate about. I'm really pleased with the progression SI is making in the FM series. Is it perfect? Obviously not, otherwise there would be no criticism at all. If you compare the level of input users get in FM to other games though,..

The level of realism in FM is nothing compared to similar sports games, it's all due to SI listening and adapting to the community.

This thread was about "tacticians" making a contribution, so lets start talking about that now. Thanks wwfan, Cleon, SFraser, Hand Of God, llama3,.. in no picked order. You all made me passionate about this wonderful game!

[phnompenhandy]

What a marvellous OP by wwfan

My immediate thought was that the next challenge is to get those stubborn asses on GD to open their minds and accept advice, but that's been covered already.

But steel yourselves chaps, for a deluge of complaints once the update is out, which must be imminent.

I myself have attempted to counter ME defensive issues by setting up a W-M formation, with fullbacks playing complete wingback level with the DM. I'm damn sure that'll be rendered disastrous with the new patch/update and I'll be back at the drawing board. I personally am completely fine with that, but there will be a torrent of angry FMers accusing the update of ruining their game. So steel yourselves fellas and fellasses, here it comes ....!

[Auqakuh]

I still don't know what defensive issues the ME has. I've not seen any. In my fourth season now, and I'm a little annoyed because I've conceded 3 goals in 9 games.

I still remain convinced that a good portion of it is just because people don't pay attention to what their OIs are and don't set PIs to compensate for the shortcomings of players in specific roles, but since there are apparently also bugs, presumably the bugs are magnifying that to a horrible extent if you do strange things.

[Britrock]

Hear, hear. This is a great place to come, I've picked up so many little ideas to implement in game that have helped me. I'm into my 4th season with one club playing the same basic tactic, which I never thought possible (I always assumed that the AI cracked it after 2/3 of the season and that was that). The most rewarding thing is that the basic tactic is 343, one that in theory should be overrun in midfield against the endless 451 variations that are en-vogue, but is seeing me around the playoffs and destroying teams occasionally (like my 9-0 win last night) thanks to all the bits of info I've seen around. In fact, I keep meaning to make a thread on my 343 exploration detailing my various different setups, I might get round to that tonight

[RTHerringbone]

In fact, I keep meaning to make a thread on my 343 exploration detailing my various different setups, I might get round to that tonight

That would be a great thing to do.

If you started with a vision of a 3-4-3 which evolved through 2 or 3 iterations, it would be interesting to see how and why you changed the things you did.

That sort of thread really helps other users to see how different people approach the game, the sort of tools they use, and / or observations they make in order to assess how well their vision is playing out.

[llama3]

Hear, hear. This is a great place to come, I've picked up so many little ideas to implement in game that have helped me. I'm into my 4th season with one club playing the same basic tactic, which I never thought possible (I always assumed that the AI cracked it after 2/3 of the season and that was that). The most rewarding thing is that the basic tactic is 343, one that in theory should be overrun in midfield against the endless 451 variations that are en-vogue, but is seeing me around the playoffs and destroying teams occasionally (like my 9-0 win last night) thanks to all the bits of info I've seen around. In fact, I keep meaning to make a thread on my 343 exploration detailing my various different setups, I might get round to that tonight

Do, it is nice to be able to read about these other systems. I mean a 4-5-1 sometimes in practice morphs its shape into a 3-4-3, so there are some very relevant things to learn even if we do not play 3-4-3 ourselves.

[Britrock]

That would be a great thing to do.

If you started with a vision of a 3-4-3 which evolved through 2 or 3 iterations, it would be interesting to see how and why you changed the things you did.

That sort of thread really helps other users to see how different people approach the game, the sort of tools they use, and / or observations they make in order to assess how well their vision is playing out.

Do, it is nice to be able to read about these other systems. I mean a 4-5-1 sometimes in practice morphs its shape into a 3-4-3, so there are some very relevant things to learn even if we do not play 3-4-3 ourselves.

It started as an attacking, high pressing, very fluid 343, then morphed into a slow, counter attacking, rigid 3142, has now morphed into a 343 with a forward split out wide in the front 3 and has also encompassed 3421 and 3412 at various points. I'll try and get onto that tonight.

[Klyemann]

Do, it is nice to be able to read about these other systems. I mean a 4-5-1 sometimes in practice morphs its shape into a 3-4-3, so there are some very relevant things to learn even if we do not play 3-4-3 ourselves.

I agree, do it!

This is the one thing I miss in the tactics forum: people posting what tactics they made, and then discuss how it works and why, discussing about ideas to improve it, possibilities of implementing specific ideas into other formations etc.

And I especially miss the more exotic formations out here... most of the threads are about 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. I've always struggled with 3 at the back, and would really like to see/discuss some of the principals people are using in those systems.