How to Play FM13: A Twelve Step Guide

[SJ234]

Yup. I'd include wingers and AFs in that as well.

Logic relates to non-specialists requiring more CF to create, whereas specialists should be able to do it in a rigid framework.

Okay very interesting. So if I removed the BPD, swapped the anchor man for DM I would have a better balance? This includes the other change I have already made.

So when choosing the roles I should think back to the philosophy and the more fluid it is the less specialised the roles should be.

[wwfan]

So when choosing the roles I should think back to the philosophy and the more fluid it is the less specialised the roles should be.

Yes. That's the theory anyway.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi wwfan,

I working (again) on my 451 formation and this time i'm applying shouts (leave and learn).

Ok this is my inicial setup:

Philosophy: Fluid

Strategy: control

Passing: Shorter

Creative Freedom: more expressive

Closing down: press more

Tackling: default

Marking: zonal

Crossing: default

Roaming: more roaming

I've ticked the "play offside".

GK: SK(D)

RB: WB (auto)

CB: CD (defend)

CB CD (defend)

LB: WB (auto)

Anchor Man

AP (support)

AP (attack)

IFR (attack)

IFL (attack)

DLF (support)

Now, because i want my team to play a little more close together but at the same type to explore the flanks, i've set this 4 inicial shouts:

Play narrower

exploit the flanks

retain possession

pass into space

What do you think? Am i making any obvious mistakes?

[mikcheck]

wwfan do you agree that the better the team is, the more attacking and fluid should be?

[wwfan]

What do you think? Am i making any obvious mistakes?

You have three specialist roles in midfield, which is quite a lot for a fluid philosophy. Other than that, nothing seems problematic.

[wwfan]

wwfan do you agree that the better the team is, the more attacking and fluid should be?

No, I don't. The philosophy of the manager is the driving force, not the quality of the team.

[Keyzer Soze]

You have three specialist roles in midfield, which is quite a lot for a fluid philosophy. Other than that, nothing seems problematic.

Specialist roles?

Need a bit more explanation here

I assume the specialist roles are the AP and the Anchor man. Why is a lot for a fluid philosophy?

If the philosophy is more fluid i should go with more generic roles (CM and DM)?

[mikcheck]

Thank you wwfan. I'm sorry but can you explain me what is a specialist role?

Edit : Keyzer Soze already asked that, so you answer is very welcome for both of us

[llama3]

Specialist roles are the non-generic roles that do something "different" - i.e. a Ball Winning Midfielder has much higher closing down and more aggressive tackling, a Deep-Lying Playmaker has reduced mentality and forward runs etc

[llama3]

that leads me to ask the question - if Fluid requires reduced specialist roles - can I get away with them in a balanced philosophy?

[wwfan]

Non-specialist roles pretty much describe a position on the pitch, i.e. central defender, defensive midfielder, central midfielder etc. If the role focuses on what a player does, rather than the position he plays in, i.e. anchoring the midfield, being a playmaker, poaching etc, then it is specialist.

In theory, the more rigid the philosophy, the more specialist roles it can accommodate.

[mikcheck]

Thank you for your explanation wwfan.

I've never understood quite well this : Is tempo also related to how fast/aggressive the team close down or is it only related to when the team has the ball?

[jaycar]

A quick question please wwfan, which roles would you give an amc and a single striker in a 4-4-1-1? Would you still give the ST a support role?

[spankie]

Yup. I'd include wingers and AFs in that as well.

Logic relates to non-specialists requiring more CF to create, whereas specialists should be able to do it in a rigid framework.

That could very well be the missing piece in my tactical jigsaw.

My tactics currently uses Balanced and I have a DLP(D) and DLP(S) in midfield and CF(S) and P(A) with the others being non-specialist. Perhaps that is what is causing me to have less shots then most people on the latest patch. Those specialists I have in the middle of the field may have too much freedom to do what I want them to do in my tactics. It would explain why at times my Poacher is playing like a DLF and linking play.

What I have to do now is work out if I want to have more non-specialist players and go for Fluid or change more of my players to specialist and limit their freedom. My hands are kind of tied as I prefer to use a flat 4-4-2 and there isn't really any specialist roles for the MR and ML, unless Defensive Winger and Wide Midfielder are classified as "specialist"

[tajj 7]

Do it on the team talk screen before the match starts?

Thanking you

[llama3]

That could very well be the missing piece in my tactical jigsaw.

My tactics currently uses Balanced and I have a DLP(D) and DLP(S) in midfield and CF(S) and P(A) with the others being non-specialist. Perhaps that is what is causing me to have less shots then most people on the latest patch. Those specialists I have in the middle of the field may have too much freedom to do what I want them to do in my tactics. It would explain why at times my Poacher is playing like a DLF and linking play.

What I have to do now is work out if I want to have more non-specialist players and go for Fluid or change more of my players to specialist and limit their freedom. My hands are kind of tied as I prefer to use a flat 4-4-2 and there isn't really any specialist roles for the MR and ML, unless Defensive Winger and Wide Midfielder are classified as "specialist"

2 x Deep Lying Playmakers is VERY static, and little movement involved - that is your problem it appears at first glance.

[spankie]

2 x Deep Lying Playmakers is VERY static, and little movement involved - that is your problem it appears at first glance.

OK, I changed to Fluid and the midfield changed to CM(D) and CM(S) with the usual DLF and AF up top. 2-0 at the end of the fist half.

But 10 minutes to go before the end of that half I decided to make a couple of changes as they were playing a 4-1-2-2-1 formation and I was obviously outnumbered in midfield. Normally I would go narrow and sometimes push up to give them less spoace, this time I set Pass to Space and Get Ball Forwards to help bypass the midfield and got 3 goals to get to the FAT semi. The wingers played exactly as I wanted them to, probably because they had more freedom now to do what they do best.

[willamangiro]

4: Focus on roles and duties in the TC. Make sure you have one Attack duty in defence, one Attack and one Defend in midfield, and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC). Make sure you have at least one no-nonsense, hard-working midfielder role. If you want to use a PM, will he be in the best position to hurt players, or will your approach see him isolated (see point eleven).

This is the one thing you've written that has suprised me; im interested to know why having a player in each of these roles is so essential to a successful tactic. Also, when you say "make sure you have one....", does that mean ONLY one or AT LEAST one? So for example, I like my full backs to generally be symmetrical- can I have them both on "attack" based on your guidelines, or must it just be one of them?

[wwfan]

This is the one thing you've written that has suprised me; im interested to know why having a player in each of these roles is so essential to a successful tactic. Also, when you say "make sure you have one....", does that mean ONLY one or AT LEAST one? So for example, I like my full backs to generally be symmetrical- can I have them both on "attack" based on your guidelines, or must it just be one of them?

You can have both, but I'd be wary doing so if you are using an Attacking or Overload strategy as that will cause them to vacate their defensive duties. Should work fine from Control - Contain.

As a Rule of Thumb, it is important to have Attacking Duties in Defence and Support duties in Attack as these duties encourage players to move between the lines, which is 100% vital in creating space.

[yonko]

wwfan,

What is the ratio of specialists roles vs non-specialists roles in a Balanced Philosophy that you would recommend? (think 4-1-2-2-1 and 4-2MC-3-1 with AMR/L formations)

[Babak G]

Do you mean in terms of having a MC playing in DMC?

[NakS]

wwfan,

What is the ratio of specialists roles vs non-specialists roles in a Balanced Philosophy that you would recommend? (think 4-1-2-2-1 and 4-2MC-3-1 with AMR/L formations)

If I understand wwfan well, it is something along the line

Very Fluid : 0-1

Fluid : 1-2

Balanced : 2-3

Rigid : 3-4

Very Rigid : 4-5

[StoneColdA]

What to do when you have multiple games with a lot of chances, lots of shots, but the shots are horrible, and quite often the shots are taken from around the box, instead of moving a couple of yards inside the box. Another thing, they are not considered long shots from just outside the box, anyone know why?

What I have tried to do is use the shout "Work ball into box", and also tried to manually adjust the long shots slider. Nothing seems to help much..

Im spurs, playing the 41221 formation. Primarily it comes from my APM, positioned in MCL position (Dembele), he is skilled enogh to dribble

[wwfan]

What to do when you have multiple games with a lot of chances, lots of shots, but the shots are horrible, and quite often the shots are taken from around the box, instead of moving a couple of yards inside the box. Another thing, they are not considered long shots from just outside the box, anyone know why?

I believe the long shot trigger is 24 yards. Might not be, but it certainly is over 20, which is why shots from the edge of the area don't qualify.

What I have tried to do is use the shout "Work ball into box", and also tried to manually adjust the long shots slider. Nothing seems to help much..

Im spurs, playing the 41221 formation. Primarily it comes from my APM, positioned in MCL position (Dembele), he is skilled enogh to dribble

This usually happens because the player has run out of options and has no cover behind him.

[yonko]

If I understand wwfan well, it is something along the line

Very Fluid : 0-1

Fluid : 1-2

Balanced : 2-3

Rigid : 3-4

Very Rigid : 4-5

So a Balanced Philosophy should have only 2-3 specialists roles and the rest should be non-specialists roles?

wwfan, can you confirm this? If yes then how does that fall into your interpretation of IRL Barca style in FM as per your thread from last year? I'm asking because in it you recommend 2 WBs, DLP, AP, 2 IFs and a Trequartista as player roles, which only leaves the 2CDs and the DM as non-specialists vs 7 specialists.

[wwfan]

So a Balanced Philosophy should have only 2-3 specialists roles and the rest should be non-specialists roles?

wwfan, can you confirm this? If yes then how does that fall into your interpretation of IRL Barca style in FM as per your thread from last year? I'm asking because in it you recommend 2 WBs, DLP, AP, 2 IFs and a Trequartista as player roles, which only leaves the 2CDs and the DM as non-specialists vs 7 specialists.

I don't regard WBs and IFs as specialist roles.

[yonko]

I don't regard WBs and IFs as specialist roles.

Oh, I thought you were. Why not? I'm surprised by that, especially about the IFs. When they are on support duty they have crossing set to rarely. I assumed that only the Winger role was a non-specialist role for M/AM R and L.

Anyway, in that case then only the DLP, AP and Treq would be considered specialists, correct?

What about using a SK as your GK, is that a specialist role?

[wwfan]

I consider the following to be specialist:

Target Man

Poacher

Trequartista

Advanced Playmaker

Box to Box Midfielder

Deep Lying Playmaker

Ball Winning Midfielder

Anchor Man

Libero

These four roles can fit in either camp, depending on your interpretation.

Complete Forward

Defensive Forward

Defensive Winger

Ball Playing Defender

Generic roles:

Advanced Forward

Deep Lying Forward

Attacking Midfielder

Central Midfielder

Defensive Midfielder

Inside Forward

Winger

Wide Midfielder

Wing Back

Full Back

Central Defender

Sweeper

I don't include keepers.

[yonko]

Ok, thanks for the clarification of all roles.

So that means I've been using the right amount of specialist roles in my two formations (both using Balanced Philosophy), without even knowing it.

My 4-1-2-2-1:

SK-d

2WBs-s

2CDs-d

DM-d

DLP-s (specialist)

CM-a

IF-a

IF-s

Treq-a (specialist)

My 4-2-3-1:

SK-d

2WBs-s

2CBs-d

DLP-s (specialist)

DLP-d (specialist)

IF-a

AM-s

IF-s

CF-s (maybe specialist)

[Wallemme]

I was always using others tactics, and with your guide I want to try to do it myself.

I have a few questions. Maybe there already been answered, then I'm sorry. Also excuses for my bad English.

1. To make a tactic from nothing with little knowledge. Is it better (easier) to start a FMC game or doesn't that make any difference?

2. I read some things about shouts and saw printscreen of the tactic screen of some players where the options shouts are available. When I look to mine tactic screen I don't see the option shouts and can only do this in the during the match. How can I get this into mine tactic screen?

3. Is there a thread about shouts? Which you can combine and how to use.

Tanks a lot!

[RICHY-T]

Had a lot of trouble with FM13 so far, but this has to be one of the best, most simple threads with great help in.

Well in mate.

[lam]

I consider the following to be specialist:

Target Man

Poacher

Trequartista

Advanced Playmaker

Box to Box Midfielder

Deep Lying Playmaker

Ball Winning Midfielder

Anchor Man

Libero

These four roles can fit in either camp, depending on your interpretation.

Complete Forward

Defensive Forward

Defensive Winger

Ball Playing Defender

Generic roles:

Advanced Forward

Deep Lying Forward

Attacking Midfielder

Central Midfielder

Defensive Midfielder

Inside Forward

Winger

Wide Midfielder

Wing Back

Full Back

Central Defender

Sweeper

I don't include keepers.

WWfan,

Could you please explain why you feel that some of these roles are specialist and some not? You have not listed duties in the above quote, so I am wondering if this might make a difference too....

[llama3]

I was always using others tactics, and with your guide I want to try to do it myself.

I have a few questions. Maybe there already been answered, then I'm sorry. Also excuses for my bad English.

1. To make a tactic from nothing with little knowledge. Is it better (easier) to start a FMC game or doesn't that make any difference?

2. I read some things about shouts and saw printscreen of the tactic screen of some players where the options shouts are available. When I look to mine tactic screen I don't see the option shouts and can only do this in the during the match. How can I get this into mine tactic screen?

3. Is there a thread about shouts? Which you can combine and how to use.

Tanks a lot!

1 - makes no difference

2 - add in tactics screen before a game, then in the teamtalk screen select the shouts

3 - yes cleon's "SI Sports Centre" thread in this tactics forum

[wwfan]

WWfan,

Could you please explain why you feel that some of these roles are specialist and some not? You have not listed duties in the above quote, so I am wondering if this might make a difference too....

Specialist roles explain what the player does, i.e (playmaking, anchoring, poaching). Generic roles focus only on the players' position, so, Box to Box Midfielder should probably be generic as well, thinking about it.

[Keyzer Soze]

I would like to give an idea.

Perhaps wwfan, or cleon, could make a thread about stats analysis. With a couple of "template" games they could illustrate to us how we should read and interpret the stats.

Simple things like "having too much long shots". We see this and the first thing we do is putting long shots to rare in every player. But perhaps looking at the stats and maps we could come to the conclusion that the problem is much more related with the team not having enough space.

As i said... just an idea.

[OBK1]

Wwfan, this is such a great thread, but don't you agree that from all these questions it is pretty clear that there must be better in-game explanations as to how to get a tactic to work and how everything is connected, what does what and so on?

[Wallemme]

So like I said some post earlier I'm new in making tactics.

When I start with a club I think it will take a time to make a good tactic, because everything is new to me. Should I start with a good club, because of the better players which make it easier or can I better start with a lower time, because they will give me the time?

Which experience do I give myself? A nobody or proffesional player?

[frukox]

wwfan, I'm Galatasaray and using 4-4-2.

In defence, I use DR-S, 2 CD-D, DL-D

In midfield, I prefer DW-A on the right flank, IF-S on the left, CM-D and AP-S in the middle

With regard to attack, a fast, balanced AF and DLF-S with good strength

As for team instructions, I used custom settings like a deep defensive line, fast tempo, shorter passing, less time wasting and narrow width and I ticked counter-attacking button. Other settings are default, determined by Counter strategy and Rigid philosophy.

My tactic was to create a well-organized defence by sitting deep to create space up front, then when I have the possession by moving the ball to final third with great urgency, I try to catch the opposition's defence out of position, cold and unprepared but I can't manage this and I continue to lose lots of matches. What could be the reason?

[llama3]

Ok a few obvious issues are:

• Untick your custom instructions. The fact you are coming in here says you are not familiar enough with what they are doing to use them properly.
  
• Your role and duty selections are poor. You are not going to win every game with a counter attack, get your left back off a defensive duty.
  
• Short Passing generally does not suit quick counter-attacking football
  

[frukox]

I unticked everything and am keeping it simple, then. Other than this, do you have anything to recommend? By the way, I decided to watch the match in full to see the wrong-doings of mine. I'll keep you informed of how it will work:) Thanks.

[frukox]

This is my simple tactic.

These are the statistics for the match against Heerenveen.

What can I infer from these statistics to improve my tactics? By the way, the team is still learning the tactic.

[watsonsclarets]

Finally I can say I have cracked it to a degree

It like a cloud lifted I think I understand the engine and stuff now.

For me there 2 ways of playing

I read this thread and found I never did find the collaboration between style and specialist roles I do now big time.

I like my specialist roles so I went very rigid I found shouts not realy having the desired effect so the only thing I do now and yes Iam ashamed to say in the past I did not care what formation the opposition played I had the super tactic but now I look at there formation and if i,am weaker I change accordingly.

I do not use shouts the only thing that changes for me are my formation/player roles/and stratergy and it is working.

I leave all the team playing style and instruction to default because it will change when the stratergy does and i,am doing quite well now I finally understand what I actually doing and enjoying football manager more than in the past 16 years because I now understand what I need and what I do not need.

AS a manager I feel I have a way now a style my own I made and I feel the game now incorporates the need for Plan B something some real managers need to sort.

Cheers to all on this thread for your help it has made the game enjoyable thank you

Ps I in league 3 so I tend to think my style like my teams is K.I.S.S

[MattyBRFC]

I am going to try some of these methods on an FMC save see if i get any joy

[spankie]

It's working fine for me on FMC.

My Blyth Spartans team are now in L2 and holding our own in the early season. This season I made a change to my main tactics and now we're playing Defensive, Very Fluid with no "specialist" roles and offensively we seem to be creating more chances for the most part then when playing Balances and Standard/Fluid. I've even signed a left back with good crossing ability who offers me the option of lam's usual suggestion of having a full back attacking and the winger on the same flank supporting.

[Babak G]

Finally I can say I have cracked it to a degree

It like a cloud lifted I think I understand the engine and stuff now.

For me there 2 ways of playing

I read this thread and found I never did find the collaboration between style and specialist roles I do now big time.

I like my specialist roles so I went very rigid I found shouts not realy having the desired effect so the only thing I do now and yes Iam ashamed to say in the past I did not care what formation the opposition played I had the super tactic but now I look at there formation and if i,am weaker I change accordingly.

I do not use shouts the only thing that changes for me are my formation/player roles/and stratergy and it is working.

I leave all the team playing style and instruction to default because it will change when the stratergy does and i,am doing quite well now I finally understand what I actually doing and enjoying football manager more than in the past 16 years because I now understand what I need and what I do not need.

AS a manager I feel I have a way now a style my own I made and I feel the game now incorporates the need for Plan B something some real managers need to sort.

Cheers to all on this thread for your help it has made the game enjoyable thank you

Ps I in league 3 so I tend to think my style like my teams is K.I.S.S

Playing rigid allows you to do that?

[mhaffy]

Really enjoying the new ME which undoubtedly requires you to continually be alert as matches develop.

Having made some new signings I was keen to develop a tactic for the new season that maximised the "star" ratings of my team on the pitch.

Having gone through my squad in detail, using squad depth duties and roles my strengths, star wise, are in MC, AMC,AML,AMR but not in DM area.This needed me to adopt a 4321 formation with three MC roles.

The TC did not have standard formation with 3 MC so I modified the 41221 by pushing the DMC into midfield.

My intital set up was Balanced, Counter (and no changes to default sliders) as follows:

GK Defend

DL Full back Support

DCL Limited defender Stopper

DCR Central defender Covering

DR Full back Attack

MC Central midfielder Attack (left side of my trio)

MC Deep lying playmaker Support (middle of my trio)

MC Ball winning midfielder Defend (right side of my trio)

AML Inside forward Attack

AMR inside forward Support

Striker Deep lying playmaker Support

Mixed early results with my new free transfer striker Llorente not particularly involved either creatively or scoring goals. Despite following advice and setting my DLF on support duty, he seemed somewhat isolated, coming deep to head balls back to midfield. Plenty of "nice" passing by the team but no real penetration/threat and midfield somewhat congested with my trio often seeming to get in each others way. Changes were needed and wwfan point 4 re importance of choosing roles/duties is so true.

Time to follow advice in point 1 of wwfan 12 point guide!

A revised appraisal of my approach, roles within my chosen formation was required, along with a re-read of this excellent post/thread.

I re-watched some of my recent mathches (full match, speeded up though) and made the following changes:

1) Changed to Balanced, Standard

2) Passing style set to More direct

3) Full back duties revised

4) Midfield trio roles, and duties, revised

5) AMR/L duties revised to try and "balance" my set up/attacking threat

GK Defend

DL Full back Attack

DCL Limited defender Stopper

DCR Central defender Covering

DR Full back Automatic

MC Deep lying playmaker Defend (left side of my midfield trio)

MC Box to box midfielder Support (centre of my midfield trio)

MC Ball winning midfielder Defend (right side of my midfield trio)

AML Inside forward Support

AMR Inside forward Attack

Striker Deep lying playmaker Support

Dramatic improvement noticed immediately with team seeming far more dangerous in final third. Original set up was definitely too conservative (counter) and not direct enough.

Midfield also more balanced now and my trio not getting in each others way too much any more, giving more passing options when in possession.

Also seems more defensively sound with inclusion of box to box midfielder seeming key to my approach whilst he also improves attacking options/threat with his forward runs.

I like my teams to be solid defensively but one of my concerns was whether having two of my MC set to Defend duty was overkill.

Early indications/analysis seem to indicate that this set up works well with deep lying playmaker being utilised well.

Point 4 of wwfam guide advises having one attack duty in defence, an atack and defend duty in midfield and support duty in attack if you play with lone striker.

My revised set up seems to meet this with one exception: No attack duty in midfield.

This is clearly an area that I will need to keep an eye on, but my box to box midfielder does provide attacking options/threat and has already created/scored.

Point 11 of guide says never stop learning.....very true.

Whilst I was happy with my revised set up, I noticed that my defenders seemed prone to hoofing speculative balls forward. Time to employ point 6 of the guide and include some shouts.

I now use play out of defence and supplement this with run at defence, work ball into box, retain possession, depending upon how match evolves.

I tend to watch first 15 mins of match in full, make changes/shouts if analysis indicates they are required and then move to comprehensive highlights.

Many thanks to wwfan for initial post and the subsequent posts that have been of great benefit.

Would be interested to know if anyone else is playing a MC trio, and if so what their experience is and how they have set the roles/duties.

Feedback on my concerns over not having a midfielder on attack duty (per wwfan point 4) would be appreciated.

[frukox]

Isn' there anyone to explain the interpretation of the analysis screen related to my earlier post? I am at a loss, especially with match stats, passing and heat map screen. What do I need to improve my tactic? Can someone please help me out with it?

[TwinsFan86]

Isn' there anyone to explain the interpretation of the analysis screen related to my earlier post? I am at a loss, especially with match stats, passing and heat map screen. What do I need to improve my tactic? Can someone please help me out with it?

It's a friendly, so you're not going to get much meaningful analysis from it.

[watsonsclarets]

Playing very rigid allows the players specialist roles set to take over plain and simple and without the use of shout which i find muddle the whole thing off because my philosophy is play the way i'am telling you and setting you up i keep it simple in the method and find through my clear instructions that rigid does not mean boring as i have thought and through the roles they interlink better than i have ever seen them with sliders and other peoples tactics.

It is not a one fits all method but my philosophy is correct for the first time and my interpretation of what i ask them to do is represented in the match engine.

I have plan B in moving players to combat certain situations not just in strategy but also in formational positions and player specialist roles but the only thnig that does not change is the mentality and therefore my philosophy.

And the question what does playing

i never thought about the effect of style and specialist roles but if i understand them now and in my intepritation of how i would like to play and find balance in it.

some of the open play football i play now is as good as i have ever seen it has taken so long so many trawls through forums so many games but i'am there and enjoying it more than ever.

I play the game every game full match and see my tactic working...

Do i win every game do i hell but what i do is lose by my mistakes the way i'am playing and i'am evolving as a football manager.

[frukox]

Do I need to wait the second part of the league for a healthy analysis of the stats? or if not, when?