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Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

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Candre168

Candre168

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Should I just turn off now? So easy for City .. Need a miracle to get anything from this.

Well if you wanted a wake up call for transfers this could just be it.

Wenger will take the view that:

1) The red card changed the game.

2) We were missing Arteta, when he comes back it'll 'be like a new signing'.

3) A match fit Diaby will 'be like a new signing'.

Or any other deluded excuse to prevent him coming to the conclusion that his squad is not good enough.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Wenger will take the view that:

1) The red card changed the game.

2) We were missing Arteta, when he comes back it'll 'be like a new signing'.

3) A match fit Diaby will 'be like a new signing'.

Or any other deluded excuse to prevent him coming to the conclusion that his squad is not good enough.

well the first is right, the second he won't say and the 3rd he may well do.

I have no complaints about the red or the pen etc. I have no complaints towards Wenger on that. However when it comes to how badly we have defended it is down to him really

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Sy13

Sy13

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I seem to remember someone here having a fit when I said Mata is superior to Cazorla. Well, I made a mistake with that statement.

He isn't just superior, it's like comparing Maradonna to David Batty. Is it Cazorlas fault or AW's? Does it even matter anymore?

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SJ234

SJ234

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I seem to remember someone here having a fit when I said Mata is superior to Cazorla. Well, I made a mistake with that statement.

He isn't just superior, it's like comparing Maradonna to David Batty. Is it Cazorlas fault or AW's? Does it even matter anymore?

Oh dear :D :D

Cheered me up with that

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Sy13

Sy13

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Anyone who says arsenal did well in the second half needs to be shot, how many chances did we create? Arsenal, the only team in the world to make Milked look good!

I am waiting for Wenger's presser now to show everyone just how clueless he has become.

We should have had a new striker, DM and winger in by now. Other clubs manage it, why do we leave it all to the last day before then doing nothing??

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SteveUK

SteveUK

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Predictable.

Was it a pen? 100Percent yes, referee is following the letter of the law, last man and all that, but could he of just gone with a yellow card and not ruined a potentially good game? maybe.

I agree with why the hell did Diaby start after 3months out?

My biggest question is why oh why does it always take us to go behind or lose a man to put the effort and energy and up the tempo of our game?

Hopefully this and the upcoming defeat to Chelski will force the club to buy in the transfer market :D

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Henry_14

Henry_14

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Thought Ramsey did ok when he came on, felt sorry for him too, gets played out of position for months as soon as the MC role is free Wenger gives it to Diaby.

I though the Pen was spot on, the Red was a poor decision. Mike Dean was woeful in general, how many freekicks and decision went against us. Good example being Walcott being penalised for not jumping for the ball then about 5 mins late Giroud is penalised for jumping over the back of the defender who hadn't jumped. Jack was fantastic today, the only one to put a shift in from the start. Sagna and Gibbs did ok too. Santi was missing for large chunks of the game as was Walcott.

Cant decide if we deserved to loose/man city deserved to win or not, considering everything went against us we maybe deserved a point. Then again we didnt really create any chances and if you cant do that do you deserve a point? One things for sure we didn't deserve to win. Perhaps we should be grateful given our recent performances that they give it a go a bit and we didnt get embarrassed?

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Candre168

Candre168

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I seem to remember someone here having a fit when I said Mata is superior to Cazorla. Well, I made a mistake with that statement.

He isn't just superior, it's like comparing Maradonna to David Batty. Is it Cazorlas fault or AW's? Does it even matter anymore?

I think they are equal. Mata would look bad on our team, because our team is not set-up properly. It's the same reason why Arshavin has done so poorly (that and Wenger used to play him as a central striker).

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Henry_14

Henry_14

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Just seen this from Wenger on Twitter...

Wenger on whether Arteta injury will prompt him to make a signing. 'To find a player of his calibre in January? I wish you good luck'

FFS.

Ive seen other pieces on net saying he is going to be looking for reinforcements

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SJ234

SJ234

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Just seen this from Wenger on Twitter...

Wenger on whether Arteta injury will prompt him to make a signing. 'To find a player of his calibre in January? I wish you good luck'

FFS.

I agree with him but it doesn't mean you can't buy someone of slightly less calibre. Anyway that injury shouldn't make us buy. What should make us buy is our paucity of attacking options.

Second half we showed a lot of willing and determination but little end product. Wilshere reminds me a lot of Gerrard the good and the bad. A lot of players were much better in the second half.

Only things we can draw from that game, as the red ruined it as a game, is our defending is woeful at times and this team shows determination when the team is losing. We knew that anyway. Really wanted to see how Theo did but it is impossible when we are short so he'll naturally get isolated. However I did like that we lined up 4-2-3-1 as that should mean Theo gets less isolated

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Weezer

Weezer

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I can't see any strengths to Arsenal's defence whatsoever.

They can't defend teams running at them with pace. Don't close down teams that pass and probe in front of them. And they're terrible at defending set pieces and crosses in the air.

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SJ234

SJ234

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I can't see any strengths to Arsenal's defence whatsoever.

They can't defend teams running at them with pace. Don't close down teams that pass and probe in front of them. And they're terrible at defending set pieces and crosses in the air.

Nothing to do with the players there it is organisation. Showed it at the beginning of the season when we were excellent in defence but that has disappeared now. Too many individual errors but not enough pragmatism from the management.

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djvandyke

djvandyke

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That soft embarrassment of a defender Laurent Koscielny yet again screwing up because he knows he can’t handle his opponents’ physicality.

What the hell was Wenger thinking picking him for this tie?

The first thing that came into my mind when reading the teamsheat was why no Mertesacker against one of the biggest sides in the league?

The only time I ever see him do well is against small mobile forwards.

I have no idea how you people can’t see it? He is a f*cking pussy.

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Kawee

Kawee

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People need to stop taking Wengers' words so literally. Wenger also said he "didn't see" all those bad tackles and missed handballs our team fortunately didn't get penalized for.

We don't actually know what our club is planning to do. Maybe Wenger is content with the squad. Maybe they're working overtime to make additions. Maybe we'll make additions. Maybe we'll fail because Wenger misjudged the available talent in the market, or lack of resources, or whatever else. However, regardless of what we're planning to do, coming out and say "yes, we're desperate to add another central midfielder to compete/cover for Arteta, and we're probably willing to spend a bit of money for it" doesn't do us any good. Stop caring so much about what managers say about transfers.

Nothing to do with the players there it is organisation.

BUT WE HAVE NO MONEY! :rolleyes:

Better defensive drilling, discipline, organization, and mentality cost nothing.

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SJ234

SJ234

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The only way we were ever going to get fourth was like last season which is by someone being worse than us. It isn't going to require a monumental **** up though.

Neither us nor spurs are that good it is just who is least **** wins. Let's be realistic with our squad as it is we could finish top 4 but equally we couldn't it is 50-50. A clever addition or two and we tilt the odds in our favour. This idea that we are miles off from doing it at are rubbish but we aren't going to do it easily if we do.

I am truly curious to what the club is planning to do with the money sitting around is it for some sort of super spending splurge or to help Kroenke boost the share price for a quick sale if he wishes. It is known that they have blocked signings and have forced Wenger to sell.

To not blame Wenger is stupid, however to solely blame him or to not see that he doesn't have an easy job is equally stupid.

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Kawee

Kawee

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I am truly curious to what the club is planning to do with the money sitting around is it for some sort of super spending splurge or to help Kroenke boost the share price for a quick sale if he wishes. It is known that they have blocked signings and have forced Wenger to sell.

This is actually a very interesting question. According to the financial reports, since 2007, we've had 376 million pounds in operating cash flow. We spent most of this on 3 things: capital expenditures (eg. new medical centre, arsenalisation, etc) debt repayment, and interests. Right now, the cash balance is at 118 million pounds! The cash balance is always growing. The papers see this number and in an attempt to sell papers, they create stupid headline stories like "WENGER HAS 70m WARCHEST!"

It is actually impossible to know how much of this money is actually available for transfers.

1. Legally, as part of the bond agreement, we need to maintain a debt servicing reserve (money we can pay our creditors immediately, in case of financial crisis) which was at 34m last year. This means, we have 84 million left to spend on anything as a club, as of last year. This number will grow each year, as we approach bond maturity, so our cash reserve will have to grow simply because of our debt obligations, although right now, it's already far bigger than necessary as you can tell.

2. With this 84 million, it's the money we use to spend on anything and everything, outside of operating cost, so it's impossible to know how much of it is actually for transfers. There are a number of things the board could choose to spend on instead of players:

- Saving up for the eventual loan repayments. We need to pay back another 253 million pounds, interest excluded, by 2029 and 2031. However, that's 2 decades away, and spending some money on players to win now, could give us better cash flow in the long run.

- Early loan repayments. We could try to pay back the loan early, to minimize interest payments. However, that would miss the whole point of the wonderful work by the old board of securing a long-term low interest loan, whose whole purpose was to give us the cash flow to compete with the rest of the world. Also, in 2010, the accounts stated that, "Further significant falls in debt are unlikely in the foreseeable future. The stadium finance bonds have a fixed repayment profile over the next 21 years and we currently expect to make repayments of debt in accordance with that profile."

Assuming the board has no big expenditure plans, and the rising debt reserve, we really should be looking at around 40 million transfer budget (50% of the leftover operating cash flow.) Most of this is just profit Wenger saved up from all the player sales. Wages is a different story because the budget, at 140m, is already massive and it's more about restructuring it, than expanding it. However, we really don't know what the board plan to do with the current 80 something million in cash, so the best we can do is speculate.

To not blame Wenger is stupid, however to solely blame him or to not see that he doesn't have an easy job is equally stupid.

I think people are aware of the difficult situation he's working under. However, you'll see that most of the criticisms are separate from those difficulties. No one is blaming him for having to operate with a smaller wage budget than Man City. We do blame him for wasting limited resources on the likes of Squillaci, Denilson, Vela, Chamakh, etc. Nobody's wholly blaming him that we can't buy the best players in the world, but a lot of our weaknesses (discipline, organization, mentality, etc) cost nothing to improve.

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Retro

Retro

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Well played Kawee for actually providing some substance to your point about our finances rather than:

"we've got £100m burning a hole in our pockets" or "the board is just taking all the money for themselves" and then going silent when anyone asks for some evidence.

Things aren't ideal at the moment, but at least you're able to back up your point, unlike most.

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Retro

Retro

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I think people are aware of the difficult situation he's working under. However, you'll see that most of the criticisms are separate from those difficulties. No one is blaming him for having to operate with a smaller wage budget than Man City. We do blame him for wasting limited resources on the likes of Squillaci, Denilson, Vela, Chamakh, etc. Nobody's wholly blaming him that we can't buy the best players in the world, but a lot of our weaknesses (discipline, organization, mentality, etc) cost nothing to improve.

While I am still prepared to back the manager for the time being, much of what you have said here is fair comment.

Our wage structure/policy is a complete nonsense as well imo.

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Kawee

Kawee

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The cash is probably there so we can operate when we eventually fail, not there to invest when we dont get into the cl, but there so we can continue to pay our overpaid also-rans when the cl money stops rolling in!

Knowing how cautious we are as a club, this is quite possible. The board have always insisted that we "don't need the UCL money." It's quite possible at least 30-40 million of our cash reserve is kept, just in case we don't make top 4, so that we can use it to keep the squad, or improve the squad, for one year in an attempt to get back to top 4, before having to seriously cut down from lack of finances. Sort of like a home-made parachute money.

Well played Kawee for actually providing some substance to your point about our finances rather than:

"we've got £100m burning a hole in our pockets" or "the board is just taking all the money for themselves" and then going silent when anyone asks for some evidence.

Things aren't ideal at the moment, but at least you're able to back up your point, unlike most.

I can't really take the credit. I'm just reporting (summarizing) the analysis done by the hardworking people who actually spend hours studying sports accounting. Takes a special breed of people to get excited over financial reports. As fans, we like things simple, especially since FM simplify things for us (x amount for transfer, y amount for wages.) It's quite frustrating when the final conclusion by a specialist is, "we have no idea how the board is going to spend 80m." Makes me want to pull my hair out.

I found a piece of news that suggest we have more "capital expenditure" coming out of the 80m cash. Apparently, we're planning major development of the Hale End Youth Academy.

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Retro

Retro

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I'm not suggesting you did the hard work, but you bothered to read the evidence properly.

I include myself in the list of people who haven't gone to even those lengths. But for my part, I've always admitted that I don't have a clear picture of the club's financial situation, while being aware that the club does have a lot more outgoings than is immediately obvious. The problem we have as fans is that there's often contradictory reports coming from the club itself about how much money we have to spend on players, and that doesn't help matters.

Wenger saying that he changes his mind whether we need new players from one match to the next definitely doesn't help either (I don't know if it was tongue-in-cheek or not but it was an idiotic thing to say).

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ajw10

ajw10

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I don't really care about the financial situation, especially when judging Wenger as he has wasted a hell of a lot of money over the years.

My main gripe is with whats happening on the football pitch. And it's clear to me that he's failing.

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SJ234

SJ234

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This is actually a very interesting question. According to the financial reports, since 2007, we've had 376 million pounds in operating cash flow. We spent most of this on 3 things: capital expenditures (eg. new medical centre, arsenalisation, etc) debt repayment, and interests. Right now, the cash balance is at 118 million pounds! The cash balance is always growing. The papers see this number and in an attempt to sell papers, they create stupid headline stories like "WENGER HAS 70m WARCHEST!"

It is actually impossible to know how much of this money is actually available for transfers.

1. Legally, as part of the bond agreement, we need to maintain a debt servicing reserve (money we can pay our creditors immediately, in case of financial crisis) which was at 34m last year. This means, we have 84 million left to spend on anything as a club, as of last year. This number will grow each year, as we approach bond maturity, so our cash reserve will have to grow simply because of our debt obligations, although right now, it's already far bigger than necessary as you can tell.

2. With this 84 million, it's the money we use to spend on anything and everything, outside of operating cost, so it's impossible to know how much of it is actually for transfers. There are a number of things the board could choose to spend on instead of players:

- Saving up for the eventual loan repayments. We need to pay back another 253 million pounds, interest excluded, by 2029 and 2031. However, that's 2 decades away, and spending some money on players to win now, could give us better cash flow in the long run.

- Early loan repayments. We could try to pay back the loan early, to minimize interest payments. However, that would miss the whole point of the wonderful work by the old board of securing a long-term low interest loan, whose whole purpose was to give us the cash flow to compete with the rest of the world. Also, in 2010, the accounts stated that, "Further significant falls in debt are unlikely in the foreseeable future. The stadium finance bonds have a fixed repayment profile over the next 21 years and we currently expect to make repayments of debt in accordance with that profile."

Assuming the board has no big expenditure plans, and the rising debt reserve, we really should be looking at around 40 million transfer budget (50% of the leftover operating cash flow.) Most of this is just profit Wenger saved up from all the player sales. Wages is a different story because the budget, at 140m, is already massive and it's more about restructuring it, than expanding it. However, we really don't know what the board plan to do with the current 80 something million in cash, so the best we can do is speculate.

I think people are aware of the difficult situation he's working under. However, you'll see that most of the criticisms are separate from those difficulties. No one is blaming him for having to operate with a smaller wage budget than Man City. We do blame him for wasting limited resources on the likes of Squillaci, Denilson, Vela, Chamakh, etc. Nobody's wholly blaming him that we can't buy the best players in the world, but a lot of our weaknesses (discipline, organization, mentality, etc) cost nothing to improve.

Thanks for going into the detail I hadn't. It is very interesting area and infuriating as it means that we can't truly judge Wenger as there is this lingering area of doubt. In terms of wages that money there will pay for that years wages so say we sign a player for 10 million and pay them 4 million a year then the cost would be 14 million.

Your last point is what I was saying he is to blame for many of those things.

Even ignoring all the background stuff, he made 4/5 mistakes today and it cost us the match. This happens in almost every match we lose.

Which were?

I don't really care about the financial situation, especially when judging Wenger as he has wasted a hell of a lot of money over the years.

My main gripe is with whats happening on the football pitch. And it's clear to me that he's failing.

The finances are important because though he has wasted money the biggest issue to do with the pitch is the standard of players which though could have been helped by better players being brought, his record is generally good in terms of transfers, and paying them less so they could be sold quicker, just pure madness, and this mainly comes down to a lack of transfer activity or ambition. That is still the biggest issue the standard of play will decline if we keep only spending to replace. Wenger however is to blame for various things many of these make me doubt his ability to lead us to being competitive again such as his fleeting pragmatism. The beginning of the season we were defensively now we aren't, the run to the champions league final was built around a extremely solid defence. Things like that are what wind me up. Another one is not taking risks in the transfer market yet he signed Ljungberg after watching him play once and Arteta was a player we hadn't really scouted for the requisite 5 years and we didn't even give him a medical despite his horrific knee injury.

The worse we get the less suited to the job Wenger become.

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SJ234

SJ234

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1.Starting Diaby 2.Not starting Mertesacker 3. Starting Theo up front 4. Subbing off Ox instead of Diaby 5. Subbing off Podolski.

1. I agree 2. with hindsight that is the right call 3. disagree this is more the game he would have been useful for as there is likely to be more space in behind 4. then we have even less of a midfield City would have run riot through that even more than they did 5. Theo should have come off imo and Podolski could have linked midfield and attack better

Not sure how many of these cost us the game though. Koscielny's sending off did that but it is difficult to say he would have done before kick off. Mertesacker should always start as he is our best cb.

Thing which really gets me is why we put Mertesacker upfront it is just stupid.

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Kawee

Kawee

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I don't really care about the financial situation, especially when judging Wenger as he has wasted a hell of a lot of money over the years.

My main gripe is with whats happening on the football pitch. And it's clear to me that he's failing.

I'm on the same boat, to a certain extent. Financial situations is important because it gives us an idea what we can expect to achieve. We don't know exactly how much Wenger has to spend, but we do know he has enough to do better, and that's really the bottom line.

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