Why is the AI so much better at finishing?

[wwfan]

and why is there no answer for strikers missing so many 1vs1 against small teams? all i see is ppl saying go defensive, hell i even tried 4-2-1-2-1 (2DMS and 1 MC) with control mentality and guess what still conceed in a freaking CA because apparently 2 DCs can't mark 1 lonely striker that is between them 2 and 1 meter away from them. also why is every AI crossing in CA so perfect that always goes near the AI striker? i'm yet to see 1 crossing from CA go out,meanwhile dimaria,ozil,douglas costa,william,gaitan keep doing it...i'm starting to abandon wingers tactics, they all made stupid crossing that either go out or straight into keeper

Small teams will sit back and try to kill space deep on the pitch. How would you tactically go about overcoming that type of approach? Think holistically, rather than trying to work out what individual plays/formations work better in the ME.

[wwfan]

If I have 20 shots, and they're all crap, yet the opponent has one good shot and scores, I have no complaints.

My complaints come when I have 5 CCC and the opponent has 1 or even 0 yet wins 2-0.

I really can't recall a game in which the AI had more CCC's than me, but I won the game/got a point, even when managing lesser sides.

I remember last year (or two years ago), someone from SI acknowledging that because it is easier to for the User to generate more CCC's, the ratio of CCC's to shots had been toned down. I don't know if this is still the case, but it would not surprise me.

See post 293. CCCs are definitely less liberal than they used to be, but they are still awarded too often. The only thing that has changed with regard to CCCs is a slow movement towards making them less liberal. Has nothing to do with how many users might generate or how often they should be scored.

[deathspawn666]

1: I just told you that the tactic knowledge of the team DOES NOT GO DOWN when you change individual player instructions. It makes no difference to tactical knowledge if you play an AMR as Defensive Forward/Support one week, then as Winger/Attack the next. You also need to take on board that match prep hits are really minimal. It is far better to increase you passing length to deal with a very wet pitch and take the minor hit than it would be not making the change.

2: 15 is high aggression. A defender with that level of aggression will pick up yellows, no matter what.

3: Flair is a player attribute. It is under mental attributes. Some level of CF is useful, even vital, for defenders. Doesn't have to be high, but shouldn't be set to the absolute minimum.

1: hum i thought match prep had huge impact, thanks

2: yes it's high but i'm using him as FB and i have players with same aggression and they behave better after having 1 yellow card. also i'm currently unable to lower his agresion, it went down 1 point when i cut his salary first time but after that it just won't go down.

3: hum i think i mistaken (in transalation) the atributte you were talking about, my bad on that

[wwfan]

2: yes it's high but i'm using him as FB and i have players with same aggression and they behave better after having 1 yellow card. also i'm currently unable to lower his agresion, it went down 1 point when i cut his salary first time but after that it just won't go down.

It will go down if you warn/fine him for getting sent off. Constant fines for yellows will just **** him off.

[deathspawn666]

It will go down if you warn/fine him for getting sent off. Constant fines for yellows will just **** him off.

i'm only fining him when he's sent off but stat is still stuck on 15, is there any ppm that could help lower it or at least counter that stat? or any advice on training schudle for Ramos to make it lower? i'm using some that i downloaded from web and they were fine for other teams and players

[wwfan]

i'm only fining him when he's sent off but stat is still stuck on 15, is there any ppm that could help lower it or at least counter that stat?

Straight reds or two yellows? In your previous post, you said you were fining him for yellow cards. Does not dive into tackles will help, but it won't prevent it. He's always going to be slightly dirty.

[deathspawn666]

Straight reds or two yellows? In your previous post, you said you were fining him for yellow cards. Does not dive into tackles will help, but it won't prevent it. He's always going to be slightly dirty.

yeah i didn't explain very well because i was nerd raging XD. at first he got 2-3 reds and now he is getting 2 yellow cards in same game.when the red cards came out i fined him and the 1st time i did it it lowered agression 1 point but then it got stuck on 15, i'm also fining him when he gets 2 yellows . hum i'll try that PPM but he seems to get the cards because he is running with AI player and suddenly pushes or pulls the players

[wwfan]

yeah i didn't explain very well because i was nerd raging XD. at first he got 2-3 reds and now he is getting 2 yellow cards in same game.when the red cards came out i fined him and the 1st time i did it it lowered agression 1 point but then it got stuck on 15, i'm also fining him when he gets 2 yellows . hum i'll try that PPM but he seems to get the cards because he is running with AI player and suddenly pushes or pulls the players

Sounds like a stretched defence issue.

[TwinsFan86]

yeah i didn't explain very well because i was nerd raging XD. at first he got 2-3 reds and now he is getting 2 yellow cards in same game.when the red cards came out i fined him and the 1st time i did it it lowered agression 1 point but then it got stuck on 15, i'm also fining him when he gets 2 yellows . hum i'll try that PPM but he seems to get the cards because he is running with AI player and suddenly pushes or pulls the players

I would attribute wha you are describing as a combination of the aggression and his poor decision stat. Having only an 11 for decisions and high aggression he is going to attempt tackles when he's not in a good position to do so, leading to yellow cards. You also have to consider the dirtiness attribute, which is hidden.

[BiggusD]

yeah i didn't explain very well because i was nerd raging XD. at first he got 2-3 reds and now he is getting 2 yellow cards in same game.when the red cards came out i fined him and the 1st time i did it it lowered agression 1 point but then it got stuck on 15, i'm also fining him when he gets 2 yellows . hum i'll try that PPM but he seems to get the cards because he is running with AI player and suddenly pushes or pulls the players

Ramos very likely has high Temperament and Dirtiness as well as low Sportsmanship attributes (or is low Dirtiness/Temperament = bad now?). Aggression has nothing to do with red cards, so the more of it the better. I don't know why this attribute drops when you fine a player for violence, which is caused by loss of temper. Maybe the lost Aggression point is transfered to Temperament?

[ArsenalFan7]

I think I'm just massively unlucky or a tactical disaster at times.

Relegation candidates in horrific morale get one shot on target (from a corner) and it goes in. My players are motivated, playing with confidence and yet they still can't convert chances, so frustrating.

I think I'll just accept these as pure luck from now on, cbf anymore.

[marty78]

Ramos very likely has high Temperament and Dirtiness as well as low Sportsmanship attributes (or is low Dirtiness/Temperament = bad now?). Aggression has nothing to do with red cards, so the more of it the better. I don't know why this attribute drops when you fine a player for violence, which is caused by loss of temper. Maybe the lost Aggression point is transfered to Temperament?

I think high aggression as well as dirtiness/sportsmanship together can cause this. I know what your saying about aggression but I have always presumed that if if a player was dirty, unsporting and has high aggression he will be a bit of a nutter. However if a player is not dirty and has good sportmanship attribute then aggression is a positive. Other things such as decisions, tackling etc also play their part IMO.

[scott MUFC]

and i concede another 2 goals in a match, one of which was some buggy own goal, from a cross.

every cross of mine is magically caught or cleared,

[marty78]

and i concede another 2 goals in a match, one of which was some buggy own goal, from a cross.

every cross of mine is magically caught or cleared,

No offence mate but you do come out with some rather random comments and then, in other threads, post screenshots were you haven't been beaten for a season and a half. Why don't you upload PKM's so people can see all these random events.

[BiggusD]

I think high aggression as well as dirtiness/sportsmanship together can cause this. I know what your saying about aggression but I have always presumed that if if a player was dirty, unsporting and has high aggression he will be a bit of a nutter. However if a player is not dirty and has good sportmanship attribute then aggression is a positive. Other things such as decisions, tackling etc also play their part IMO.

Yes to be very thorough here, what determines the degree to which a player will risk his own health or a yellow card in order to win possession of the ball, and success rate in doing so, are these attributes:

Acceleration, Pace, Agility, Work Rate, Team Work, Determination, Aggression, Bravery, Decisions and Tackling

+ (attacking) mentality, closing down and tackling instructions

+ morale and motivation

What determines a player's ability to avoid unnecessary yellow and red cards, including violent "tackles" are the following:

Decisions, Temperament, Sportsmanship, Dirtiness

+ (attacking) mentality, tackling instructions

+ morale and motivation

To be fair, high Aggression makes tackles more likely, which is necessary to commit a foul in the first place. However, a player who constantly gets himself booked because he can't contain himself does not have an aggression problem - that is a matter of Temperament and Dirtiness. Ramos is that kind of player so if that is a problem, sell him.

[scott MUFC]

well yea because i won 3-2.

no reason for a cross to be whiped in and to bouce off a defender while the keeper stands there, none.

wouldn't the red cards also be caused by fluidity? tracking back and making late tackles etc.

[Takos]

I tell you what I am sick unto death of...its the damn AI putting in a cross and having their FW/Winger come in and do the little slide with a toe touch putting the ball past my keeper. In my first 2 league games of my new season I've giving up 4 goals ALL by this same damn sequence. 4 shots on target all 4 goals all 4 sliding toe touch goals. Enough All Ready!

[scott MUFC]

yea that happens to me.

my team did it in the previous season, but now the keeper or defenders get to them.

[ArsenalFan7]

I did go on to win this tie in extra time but IDK, just doesn't feel realistic.

[ArsenalFan7]

It seems like bias at times.

Of course it probably isn't but I destroyed them and yet they still go onto get that fluky goal with just 2 shots on target all game.

[ArsenalFan7]

Very funny run of events, I suppose this is a bit different as their goal comes from a penalty (felt a bit scripted that part.. a sending off and then a magical penalty, ok then!) but it sure is lucky for the AI again.

My goal was from a free kick as well

[themadsheep2001]

It seems like bias at times.

Of course it probably isn't but I destroyed them and yet they still go onto get that fluky goal with just 2 shots on target all game.

looking at that screenshot, the quality of their one chance seems better than all of yours.

[cemendur88]

Well what immediately jumps out at me from those stats is how you had 21 shots against Malaga, but only 2 clear cut chances. Sounds like your tactic is giving you loads of shots but very few good chances.

[ArsenalFan7]

What the hell can I do though if I'm losing out because of the AI's ability to take one chance all game that I can't stop?

There's tactics and there's there is this, IDK how you stop that one chance, it's hard to prevent them shooting all game.

[cemendur88]

What the hell can I do though if I'm losing out because of the AI's ability to take one chance all game that I can't stop?

There's tactics and there's there is this, IDK how you stop that one chance, it's hard to prevent them shooting all game.

Your problem is that you aren't making good chances and scoring goals, you are not killing games off so opposition teams will keep going and have the chance to nick a goal back.

You need to make your tactic better so you make better chances so you will score more.

And remember this is football, luck does play a part. You can be the best team in the world and have an off day. You can do lots to reduce the chance of it, but you can never prevent bad teams from scoring against you occasionally.

[ArsenalFan7]

Since using the tactic:

3-0 win vs Celta (8 CCC's)

3-0 win vs Espanyol (2 CCC's)

1-0 win vs PSG (3 CCC's)

3-0 win vs Valencia (6 CCC's)

3-0 win vs At.Madrid (4 CCC's)

7-0 win vs Sevilla (5 CCC's)

4-0 win vs Getafe (4 CCC's)

2-1 win vs PSG (6 CCC's)

1-1 draw vs Malaga (2 CCC's)

9 games = 40 CCC's

I am using the totalvoetball tactic and for the most part it is working extremely well and the finishing has been good.

[cemendur88]

Since using the tactic:

3-0 win vs Celta (8 CCC's)

3-0 win vs Espanyol (2 CCC's)

1-0 win vs PSG (3 CCC's)

3-0 win vs Valencia (6 CCC's)

3-0 win vs At.Madrid (4 CCC's)

7-0 win vs Sevilla (5 CCC's)

4-0 win vs Getafe (4 CCC's)

2-1 win vs PSG (6 CCC's)

1-1 draw vs Malaga (2 CCC's)

9 games = 40 CCC's

I am using the totalvoetball tactic and for the most part it is working extremely well and the finishing has been good.

So you have generally been doing really well, but one draw and suddenly its an AI conspiracy against you? Your team was unlucky, and Malaga got lucky. It happens.

Do you have a link to the thread with the totalvoetball tactic in it?

[Guest]

Edit: Just seen the post with your recent results, you have nothing to moan about.

Also it's been mentioned time & time again but just to reiterate, ignore the CCC stat, it's flawed.

[ArsenalFan7]

My tactic is based upon the totalvoetball tactic found in the Tactical Theorems 10 guide.

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/

[marty78]

Since using the tactic:

3-0 win vs Celta (8 CCC's)

3-0 win vs Espanyol (2 CCC's)

1-0 win vs PSG (3 CCC's)

3-0 win vs Valencia (6 CCC's)

3-0 win vs At.Madrid (4 CCC's)

7-0 win vs Sevilla (5 CCC's)

4-0 win vs Getafe (4 CCC's)

2-1 win vs PSG (6 CCC's)

1-1 draw vs Malaga (2 CCC's)

9 games = 40 CCC's

I am using the totalvoetball tactic and for the most part it is working extremely well and the finishing has been good.

So you have scored 27 goals for 40 clear chances created and conceded 2 goals in 9 games. What is the issue then? Also against Malaga why was their player able to play a ball into 20 yards of space leading to your defender to panic and make a professional foul indicating he stopped a goalscoring opportunity and therefore conceding a penalty and seeing red?

[Guest]

Wasn't wwfan involved in writing that?

[cemendur88]

My tactic is based upon the totalvoetball tactic found in the Tactical Theorems 10 guide.

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/

Not too dissimilar to one I'm using at the moment, what strategy do you use? Are you playing with a back 4 or with an actual sweeper? Very good attacking tactic, but if it's like the one I'm playing with vulnerable to fast counter attacks at times.

[ArsenalFan7]

Not too dissimilar to one I'm using at the moment, what strategy do you use? Are you playing with a back 4 or with an actual sweeper? Very good attacking tactic, but if it's like the one I'm playing with vulnerable to fast counter attacks at times.

No actual sweeper as of yet, no one currently is accomplished in the position yet but I shall use a libero soon.

I always start with a controlling strategy but towards the later part of that game as you would I usually go into a more defensive approach to try and prevent the opponent sneaking in a late goal.

I would agree it is susceptible to the counter attack and this led to the two goals in the games I mention.

[ArsenalFan7]

So you have scored 27 goals for 40 clear chances created and conceded 2 goals in 9 games. What is the issue then? Also against Malaga why was their player able to play a ball into 20 yards of space leading to your defender to panic and make a professional foul indicating he stopped a goalscoring opportunity and therefore conceding a penalty and seeing red?

It was a through ball played from the midfield, the striker got ahead of Zouma who then made a idiotic decision to wipe him down. I guess he felt taking him down in the late stages would be better than for him to get a clear cut chance and attempt to score.

The issue here is that it is not realistic, it is not common for an opponent to get a goal from so few chances on target, especially when they're being battered. I don't see just how the fact that I've been doing well means this is completely acceptable.

[cemendur88]

No actual sweeper as of yet, no one currently is accomplished in the position yet but I shall use a libero soon.

I always start with a controlling strategy but towards the later part of that game as you would I usually go into a more defensive approach to try and prevent the opponent sneaking in a late goal.

I would agree it is susceptible to the counter attack and this led to the two goals in the games I mention.

Do you have one of your CDs set to Cover then? I personally never change my strategy late one if things are going well, don't let up the pressure on my opponents as doing so just invites them to have a late push for a goal. My tactic uses Attacking so is even more focused on getting the ball upfield than yours.

It was a through ball played from the midfield, the striker got ahead of Zouma who then made a idiotic decision to wipe him down. I guess he felt taking him down in the late stages would be better than for him to get a clear cut chance and attempt to score.

The issue here is that it is not realistic, it is not common for an opponent to get a goal from so few chances on target, especially when they're being battered. I don't see just how the fact that I've been doing well means this is completely acceptable.

Yes it is quite rare, and it has happened rarely to you, but it does happen in real life. It happens, sometimes you draw games you dominate othertimes you'll win a game you've struggled in. Nothing is certain or guaranteed.

[ArsenalFan7]

No both set to defend, I only use cover if the other defender is able to be played as a stopper, that way they compliment each other more.

I don't necessarily go defensive every game, usually I'll just go to a more standard approach in the final moments but most of the time if I'm clearly in the lead I'll leave things as they are.

I don't really like starting in an attacking strategy as i feel too vulnerable to conceding.

[cemendur88]

No both set to defend, I only use cover if the other defender is able to be played as a stopper, that way they compliment each other more.

I don't necessarily go defensive every game, usually I'll just go to a more standard approach in the final moments but most of the time if I'm clearly in the lead I'll leave things as they are.

I don't really like starting in an attacking strategy as i feel too vulnerable to conceding.

Setting one of your CDs to cover can help to deal with counter attacks as he will be deeper and better able to cover the back line. My tactic is very attacking and scores fairly easily so I don't mind conceding the odd goal.

[Guest]

The issue here is that it is not realistic, it is not common for an opponent to get a goal from so few chances on target, especially when they're being battered. I don't see just how the fact that I've been doing well means this is completely acceptable.

How is it unrealistic?

The striker in your game managed to catch a break in your defensive line & was then aided when your defender cut him down, this can happen at any time to any team.

[ArsenalFan7]

I thought that a cover/defend partnership didn't complement well but I'll give it a shot, cheers.

[Coentrao]

It just happens, a couple of days ago Newcastle scored with pretty much their first shot on target and Swansea went on to dominate the entire game and Newcastle even got a second goal on the break.

It's one draw in 8 games.. it will happen, it's football, if you set out your teams to defend you will also have games where you score from one or two shots target while the AI can't break you down.

[cemendur88]

I thought that a cover/defend partnership didn't complement well but I'll give it a shot, cheers.

Used it for about seven seasons on an Athletic Bilbao save, certainly helps provide a bit of extra defensive strength to the attacking play I favour.

[bluebirds4life]

I can see from reading 5 posts that Speakie's just created a mass GD war between the fanboys, try-hards, haterz, the furious and chilled tribes and the 'itz ure tacticz' clan, brilliant!

[achilles-the-victorious]

Until you are up 3-0 no one is being battered. Shots don't demoralize the opposition, runs and dribbles don't demoralize the opposition. Being scored on repeatedly, yeah, thatll demoralize them right quick. So if you lose 1-0 defence wasn't the problem! You need to score to win ANY game, and most games you should aim to score 2 or 3 before setting up shop or thinking the game is in the bag.

It was a through ball played from the midfield, the striker got ahead of Zouma who then made a idiotic decision to wipe him down. I guess he felt taking him down in the late stages would be better than for him to get a clear cut chance and attempt to score.

The issue here is that it is not realistic, it is not common for an opponent to get a goal from so few chances on target, especially when they're being battered. I don't see just how the fact that I've been doing well means this is completely acceptable.

[FrazT]

Wasn't wwfan involved in writing that?

Co-author with Millie IIRC

[strangeboy]

Lets say for example that you are a newly promoted team in the EPL and most opposition will see you as cannon fodder but that is often not the case and the reason many people over achieve in the first season after promotion. The next year after finishing, lets say, seventh teams are aware that you are a side capable of punishing them if they all out attack you. This means they will be more conservative and keep more men behind the ball.

Does the game really do this? Is it that dynamic? I've not really seen much evidence of this.

[Guest]

I'm fairly certain it is one of the core mechanics behind AI tactics & it's roots are in the reputation system.

When AI managed teams get promoted it doesn't show up as much as AI managers who are expected to be cannon fodder make all their decisions on that basis but a Human manager can demonstrate much greater ambition which leads to the over-achievement marty78 mentions.

[Coentrao]

The AI will use match strategies from the TC and the starting strategy will normally depend on the match odds that are generated from reputation, so yes it's dynamic.

[BiggusD]

Does the game really do this? Is it that dynamic? I've not really seen much evidence of this.

The AI bases their tactical strategy on Reputation and some other things, like form. If they are underdogs they will play more defensively. Counter-attack strategies employed by the AI are generally better than the attacking strategies imo.

[TSH]

So, for people who defend this, is it ok if I get 20-25 chances almost per game?

Does that ever happen in real life, per game?

[Guest]

Liverpool & Man City consistently create 20+ scoring chances, I'd dare say there are plenty more teams who could be found with a little research.

That said it is a fairly commonly held opinion that the ME is flawed but somehow remains balanced.