Why is the AI so much better at finishing?

[themadsheep2001]

One thing i'll add. I cant help but think that some of the OP's (and other peoples problems) could be helped if the assistant manager was better developed, and gave some better more detailed advice.

[Guest]

I'm not too bothered about my world class players missing chance after chance - this has been part of FM for as long as I remember once you've got a team together which dominates the opposition. What really rustles my jimmies is when the opposition players (who start the game with low morale, get battered for the entire match, and have half the ability and necessary attributes to score) tuck away goals after only one or two chances.

I would've thought that great finishing/decision/composure stats and high morale = more goals. But that's not always the case, and the game is really poor at explaining why this isn't the case.

EDIT: And I'm talking about equivalent chances. Not a bunch of long shots from team on top and then a CCC for the weaker team. Also, I'm quite aware that this goes against the AI too - it's just the better teams who suffer from this kind of thing, human or AI controlled.

[THOG]

You adjust this with the Run From Deep, Mentality and Width sliders.

I suspect Runs from Deep is probably the biggest problem with players who use extreme attacking tactics. If everyone is set to Run from Deep, they all just pile into the box and there's no real effort to break down the defense. Runs from Deep "Often" should only be used by more than two players if you are playing against tough opposition employing a high defensive line, otherwise those players will effectively just take themselves out of the build-up waiting for breakaway opportunities that are extremely unlikely to occur (as there's little to no space for them to run into).

Against smaller teams defending deep with a lot of players, "Run from Deep" should be limited to one player who can either breakaway very quickly or who will move wide and draw defenders out of position while relying on a "support" striker and wingers making late runs to be your primary goalscorers.

EDIT: And the value of the Finishing attribute is overestimated by many. A high Finishing attribute will, in ideal situations, occasionally allow a player to make a more difficult shot, but on the whole, it's not going to magically turn a poor chance into a good one. Against defensive teams where you need to patiently and intelligently break down the opposition, Anticipation, Composure, Off the Ball and Decisions are far more important. Playing as Liverpool, I had Maxi Rodriguez and Dirk Kuyt establish the most prolific scoring partnership in the EPL for two seasons... their Finishing attributes were, respectively, 12 and 13.

[themadsheep2001]

I suspect Runs from Deep is probably the biggest problem with players who use extreme attacking tactics. If everyone is set to Run from Deep, they all just pile into the box and there's no real effort to break down the defense. Runs from Deep "Often" should only be used by more than two players if you are playing against tough opposition employing a high defensive line, otherwise those players will effectively just take themselves out of the build-up waiting for breakaway opportunities that are extremely unlikely to occur (as there's little to no space for them to run into).

Against smaller teams defending deep with a lot of players, "Run from Deep" should be limited to one player who can either breakaway very quickly or who will move wide and draw defenders out of position while relying on a "support" striker and wingers making late runs to be your primary goalscorers.

EDIT: And the value of the Finishing attribute is overestimated by many. A high Finishing attribute will, in ideal situations, occasionally allow a player to make a more difficult shot, but on the whole, it's not going to magically turn a poor chance into a good one. Against defensive teams where you need to patiently and intelligently break down the opposition, Anticipation, Composure, Off the Ball and Decisions are far more important. Playing as Liverpool, I had Maxi Rodriguez and Dirk Kuyt establish the most prolific scoring partnership in the EPL for two seasons... their Finishing attributes were, respectively, 12 and 13.

I dont think I ever have more than two players from the front 6 with RFD often. I think it is often overused and can lead to inconsistent build up to attacks, because no one is left to exploit the space.

[deathspawn666]

since some people are saying it's a tactics problem , would you mind telling me how i can see the tactical problem when the AI scores in the first minutes? in the first highlight? playing defensive doesn't work, i tried it and still conceeded.

and how about the tactics to enable our defenders to make a super clear out that goes straight into the striker like AI does? anyone?

[themadsheep2001]

since some people are saying it's a tactics problem , would you mind telling me how i can see the tactical problem when the AI scores in the first minutes? in the first highlight? playing defensive doesn't work, i tried it and still conceeded.

and how about the tactics to enable our defenders to make a super clear out that goes straight into the striker like AI does? anyone?

The best way to find out is watch the first few minutes on full and see where each of their early goals goes come from, who is conceding it, are players missing the tackles etc, are they shooting from range from the off with no one closing down etc. Without actually seeing the goals you are conceding, hard to be specific, upload some PKMs, so people can have a look.

I have only conceded one goal so far in the first 15 minutes of any game ( that was an 11th minute own goal by the keeper) while scoring 29 goals in the first 15 minutes, 9 of which were in the first 5 minutes of the game.

[deathspawn666]

The best way to find out is watch the first few minutes on full and see where each of their early goals goes come from, who is conceding it, are players missing the tackles etc, are they shooting from range from the off with no one closing down etc. Without actually seeing the goals you are conceding, hard to be specific, upload some PKMs, so people can have a look.

I have only conceded one goal so far in the first 15 minutes of any game ( that was an 11th minute own goal by the keeper) while scoring 29 goals in the first 15 minutes, 9 of which were in the first 5 minutes of the game.

there is noone missing tackles (shako, hummels, Pepe), what they are missing is the marking against some stupid player who has all stats inferior to them and have lower morale then my players.

as for the long shots it's usually from 1/4 of the field and my DM apparently refuses to mark him no matter what i tell to him...

oh and one more thing, this happens against lower reputation teams which no matter what teamtalk i use (reloaded a couple of games to try them all) my players will just have their heads on the clouds, against high reputation teams my defenders are always good, for example against barcelona villa and messi are very well marked through the whole game

[themadsheep2001]

there is noone missing tackles (shako, hummels, Pepe), what they are missing is the marking against some stupid player who has all stats inferior to them and have lower morale then my players.

as for the long shots it's usually from 1/4 of the field and my DM apparently refuses to mark him no matter what i tell to him...

Like i said, upload some PKMs so people can have a look, makes it easier for people to analyse and help. Get and idea of how of your shape is playing out on the pitch.

[deathspawn666]

Like i said, upload some PKMs so people can have a look, makes it easier for people to analyse and help. Get and idea of how of your shape is playing out on the pitch.

it ain't a tactical problem, it's a morale/teamtalk problem because my defenders make those mistakes when they are nervous. i have the best Ass manager from the game and their morale is most of the times excellent, but then Ass manager makes the teamtalk, teamtalk screen shows their reaction is fine but then when game starts they are nervous, seriously wtf. on top of that add the fact that AI loosing 3-0 doesn't affect their morale, evey AI player will still play as if they could change the result and we know that hardly happens however ingame AI always seems to believe it's possible on every match

[ambi!]

I have been following the discussion here. Then I played Rubin away with Arsenal (won the first leg at home 4-0), losing 6-4 having 17 shots, 12 on target, 9 CCC. Rubin had 10 shots, 6 on target, 2 ccc.

I would be very interested too see what I did wrong. I played a slow control strategy with the aim of keeping the ball. When I saw there was space as Rubin was pushing up their d-line I used the shouts pass into space and retain possesion. Also I played with a lower d-line as usual as Rubin played two fast strikers (Martins and Valdez)

Link to the pkm:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-4249236/Rubin-v-Arsenal.pkm.html

[BiggusD]

I have been following the discussion here. Then I played Rubin away with Arsenal (won the first leg at home 4-0), losing 6-4 having 17 shots, 12 on target, 9 CCC. Rubin had 10 shots, 6 on target, 2 ccc.

I would be very interested too see what I did wrong. I played a slow control strategy with the aim of keeping the ball. When I saw there was space as Rubin was pushing up their d-line I used the shouts pass into space and retain possesion. Also I played with a lower d-line as usual as Rubin played two fast strikers (Martins and Valdez)

Link to the pkm:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-4249236/Rubin-v-Arsenal.pkm.html

Complacency?

[AcidBurn]

I just played Fulham with my Sunderland side and won 9-3, I only had 2 clear cut chances. Never had a game where my attackers were so successful in creating goals from nothing.

[ambi!]

Complacency?

Yes, some of players were complacent. Probably because we destroyed Rubin the home game and because of my low manager rep. But is it not totally unrealistic to concede 6 (!!) goals because of complacency?

[deathspawn666]

I just played Fulham with my Sunderland side and won 9-3, I only had 2 clear cut chances. Never had a game where my attackers were so successful in creating goals from nothing.

CCC is the worst stat you can use to analyse a match because the CCC in FM12 is just absurd and many IRL CCC aren't counted as CCC ingame. You should use check shots on target + morale/motivation.

[AcidBurn]

CCC is the worst stat you can use to analyse a match because the CCC in FM12 is just absurd and many IRL CCC aren't counted as CCC ingame. You should use check shots on target + morale/motivation.

I was just surprised we scored so many, we usually create 4-6 CCC's a game. I don't just analyse a game based on CCC's and nothing else.

[deathspawn666]

Complacency?

and how is that the managers fault? oh right it ain't because the teamtalks won't solve that

[deathspawn666]

I was just surprised we scored so many, we usually create 4-6 CCC's a game. I don't just analyse a game based on CCC's and nothing else.

well by the way you wrote i understood it was but as i said if your morale is good and you made a good teamtalk your strikers/attacking midfielders can very well have the best day of their lives

[BiggusD]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This was what caused three of the goals. Your back four backing off until it was too late. In other words, a too passive defense and acres of space on the flanks.

[AcidBurn]

well by the way you wrote i understood it was but as i said if your morale is good and you made a good teamtalk your strikers/attacking midfielders can very well have the best day of their lives

I can see how you thought that but anyone that judges the whole game by CCC's only is a bit of an idiot.

Morale was reasonably good at the time and for some reason every other shot we had went in, it was great just wish it happened more often lol.

[BiggusD]

and how is that the managers fault? oh right it ain't because the teamtalks won't solve that

In cup matches? I agree team talks won't fix complacency entirely, but the right one should keep them focused enough to avoid defeat from motivational issues alone. In this case, though, Arsenal was leaky because of tactical dispositions while a lack of focus clearly didn't help.

I always pick the Assertive "second leg" warning against complacency when leading on aggregate while being favourites. Always worked for me.

[ambi!]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This was what caused three of the goals. Your back four backing off until it was too late. In other words, a too passive defense and acres of space on the flanks.

Thanks for looking into the pkm!

I used the drop deeper shout as they had very pacey strikers, but because of my team closing down often on default ("press more") it looks like my d-line was still too high (it was on the 10th notch). Interestingly my d-line would have been deeper had I played with "stand off more", but then the defense would have been even less inclined to close down.

[BiggusD]

Thanks for looking into the pkm!

I used the drop deeper shout as they had very pacey strikers, but because of my team closing down often on default ("press more") it looks like my d-line was still too high (it was on the 10th notch). Interestingly my d-line would have been deeper had I played with "stand off more", but then the defense would have been even less inclined to close down.

I would rather have left Mertesacker in London and played exactly like you do at home, and let Martins be Martins. Your tactical changes made your tactic worse because "drop deeper" alone isn't enough to create a solid defensive version of your attacking tactic. Imho keeping in mind the idea that the end product of the changes you make through shouts should be an independently functional, logically sound tactic is absolutely essential if there is to be a point to using that strategy at all.

[ambi!]

I would rather have left Mertesacker in London and played exactly like you do at home, and let Martins be Martins. Your tactical changes made your tactic worse because "drop deeper" alone isn't enough to create a solid defensive version of your attacking tactic. Imho keeping in mind the idea that the end product of the changes you make through shouts should be an independently functional, logically sound tactic is absolutely essential if there is to be a point to using that strategy at all.

Mertesacker was warming the bench. I played with Koscielny and Djourou who have decent pace. I replayed the match btw playing a very deep defense and low closing down and the result was an even game that I lost 1-2. Now I will try my regular high pressing short passing control strategy and see what happens. Note that I really do not see the use of shouts anymore if they really disrupt my tactic lke you state. If a TC tactic will be messed up by shouts then what is the use of them?

[cemendur88]

Mertesacker was warming the bench. I played with Koscielny and Djourou who have decent pace. I replayed the match btw playing a very deep defense and low closing down and the result was an even game that I lost 1-2. Now I will try my regular high pressing short passing control strategy and see what happens. Note that I really do not see the use of shouts anymore if they really disrupt my tactic lke you state. If a TC tactic will be messed up by shouts then what is the use of them?

Shouts work fine, just asking your team to sit deep isn't the best idea against a team who will be attacking at home as all you are doing is giving them time on the ball.

[ambi!]

Shouts work fine, just asking your team to sit deep isn't the best idea against a team who will be attacking at home as all you are doing is giving them time on the ball.

I see your point, but all did Rubin did was boot long balls to Martins and Valdez so it made perfect sense. I guess that me being the slight favourite away after having won the home leg 4-0 might not have been enough for them to play defensively (in which case drop deeper would have been fine to create space). It is really difficult to make the right choices in FM2012!

[BiggusD]

Mertesacker was warming the bench. I played with Koscielny and Djourou who have decent pace. I replayed the match btw playing a very deep defense and low closing down and the result was an even game that I lost 1-2. Now I will try my regular high pressing short passing control strategy and see what happens. Note that I really do not see the use of shouts anymore if they really disrupt my tactic lke you state. If a TC tactic will be messed up by shouts then what is the use of them?

If you ask them to drop deeper without also adjusting mentality and closing down, you will have a mess of a tactic. You don't even know how much deeper they will drop or if changing from closing down more to default will be enough. The width you played with was also an issue in the Anzi-match you uploaded. Unless you know these things, shouts are shots in the dark and yes then you shouldn't use them.

[king sisqo]

The AI cheats hard. there shots is concise when clear despite how low calibre the finisher is. ive noticed my strikers always denied one on one despite how much composure concentration, finishing dribbling aswell as all that off the ball anticipation and i must note on the preffered foot his is happening to. and i mean a weak team. also for example. why is west brom and wolves so deadly at finishing despite how they are in real life?

and lastly the AI will rob you for the whole match. u throw everthing at them. its 1-0 to yo or 0-0 a match u dominated. then 80+ mins comes to play. have u noticed how many highlights you get against you with you whole team having a hard time where they will suddently score and injury time of 3mins extend to like 6 mins and they score in the time more they they sould of been given. BS!

Also reading got promoted. proper poor morale. no significant signings.....they ripped me apart in possesion shots and i barely had a sniff. i won match and 1-0 and i scrapped it. despite playing them twice already in the npower championship where i hammered them. ( i am southampton and promoted from the start and this is the 3rd season) my defence consisted of bassong shawcross and rolando with other equal evialent players on the side like bacinovic and jucilei omer damari and mertens etc. that is not cool cos we had high morale and non of them was over confident during start of match and my formation etc is all accomplished so whats that about?

[vilks]

Probably a noob question but what is a "CA tactic"?

[Sergey S.]

The AI cheats hard. there shots is concise when clear despite how low calibre the finisher is. ive noticed my strikers always denied one on one despite how much composure concentration, finishing dribbling aswell as all that off the ball anticipation and i must note on the preffered foot his is happening to. and i mean a weak team. also for example. why is west brom and wolves so deadly at finishing despite how they are in real life?

and lastly the AI will rob you for the whole match. u throw everthing at them. its 1-0 to yo or 0-0 a match u dominated. then 80+ mins comes to play. have u noticed how many highlights you get against you with you whole team having a hard time where they will suddently score and injury time of 3mins extend to like 6 mins and they score in the time more they they sould of been given. BS!

Also reading got promoted. proper poor morale. no significant signings.....they ripped me apart in possesion shots and i barely had a sniff. i won match and 1-0 and i scrapped it. despite playing them twice already in the npower championship where i hammered them. ( i am southampton and promoted from the start and this is the 3rd season) my defence consisted of bassong shawcross and rolando with other equal evialent players on the side like bacinovic and jucilei omer damari and mertens etc. that is not cool cos we had high morale and non of them was over confident during start of match and my formation etc is all accomplished so whats that about?

We just had 2 full pages of discussion on possible reasons for that kind of stuff to occur, did you read any of it or did you just decide to put in your rant after reading the thread title?

Upload the .pkm of your games if you really want people to try to figure out what your tactic was doing wrong in those games.

[Scab]

Probably a noob question but what is a "CA tactic"?

Counter-Attack.

[marty78]

If you ask them to drop deeper without also adjusting mentality and closing down, you will have a mess of a tactic. You don't even know how much deeper they will drop or if changing from closing down more to default will be enough. The width you played with was also an issue in the Anzi-match you uploaded. Unless you know these things, shouts are shots in the dark and yes then you shouldn't use them.

You will never know these things if you don't use them though. Shouts are brilliant IMO. I hate all that slider crap from previous versions and find the TC and shouts are easier to understand than the effects of a s**t load of sliders with thousands of possible combinations. If you want to understand what they do and how they can combine together then just watch the matches. Pre-season friendlies are ideal if you don't want to jump all in straight away.

Oh and while I may change closing down I will never change mentality when I drop deeper as a mentality change will also change d-line.

[Apos]

"It's your tactics"

At least this is what the moderators will say.

It's your tactics that your players can't convert chances a school boy would shoot fine.

It's your tactics that your players start playing dodgeball with the AI goalkeeper instead of football.

It's your tactics that your defenders can't defend for their lives.

It's your tactics that you got 3 woodworks for 4 consecutive games.

It's your tactics that you get so many own goals per season.

It's your tactics that you just had 4-5 injuries within a game. All of them for 2+ months.

It's always your tactics,because FM is loyal to "real life statistics" and that's what a simulator is all about. But when statistics don't cut it anymore, "it's only a game" and we can't expect it to be loyal to real life!

And let's not forget that something is a "bug" only when it actually annoys the moderators themselves,otherwise we are just being biased.

Just face it,hypocrisy moderates these forums. This reply will just get deleted or end up locking the thread,only a few will get to see it. How do you expect the game to improve when this has been the case for the last few years? How can the game improve when the complains of the player-base are silenced before the actual developers see them?

I've given up hope in FM. Next year we get a new match engine. That's the last chance I'm personally giving this game and it's too much already considering the way people are treated here.

[marty78]

And let's not forget that something is a "bug" only when it actually annoys the moderators themselves,otherwise we are just being biased.

Just face it,hypocrisy moderates these forums. This reply will just get deleted or end up locking the thread,only a few will get to see it. How do you expect the game to improve when this has been the case for the last few years? How can the game improve when the complains of the player-base are silenced before the actual developers see them?

Thats what the bugs forum is for is it not? Perhaps you would be better of on other forums. Oh and its your tactics.

[wwfan]

"It's your tactics"

At least this is what the moderators will say.

It's your tactics that your players can't convert chances a school boy would shoot fine.

It's your tactics that your players start playing dodgeball with the AI goalkeeper instead of football.

If you are consistently creating and missing the same type of chance, both the above are tactical. The likelihood is that you are only creating one good type of chance, which always fall to the same player. If that player is having a bad day (low on confidence, nervous, poor morale, or just out of form) then you will see the many shots, no goals scenario. A good talk with him might help, but not as much as developing a tactic that doesn't rely on one dimensional chances. If you do that, many players will be scoring, so a single player having a bad day won't matter as much.

It's your tactics that your defenders can't defend for their lives.

I agree.

It's your tactics that you got 3 woodworks for 4 consecutive games.

No, that's a minor bug.

It's your tactics that you get so many own goals per season.

Also a minor bug.

It's your tactics that you just had 4-5 injuries within a game. All of them for 2+ months.

That is something you are doing. Likely to be related to tactics, training and squad management.

It's always your tactics,because FM is loyal to "real life statistics" and that's what a simulator is all about. But when statistics don't cut it anymore, "it's only a game" and we can't expect it to be loyal to real life!

And let's not forget that something is a "bug" only when it actually annoys the moderators themselves,otherwise we are just being biased.

Just face it,hypocrisy moderates these forums. This reply will just get deleted or end up locking the thread,only a few will get to see it. How do you expect the game to improve when this has been the case for the last few years? How can the game improve when the complains of the player-base are silenced before the actual developers see them?

I've given up hope in FM. Next year we get a new match engine. That's the last chance I'm personally giving this game and it's too much already considering the way people are treated here.

The remainder of your post is total nonsense. This thread won't be closed unless people start wading in being personal. The thread about the game being too easy posted prior to 12.1 resulted in a concerted effort from developers, moderators and users to discover what the issue was. A successful concerted effort too. If I think somebody has discovered a genuinely new and big bug, I'll personally report it to Paul.

[wwfan]

If you ask them to drop deeper without also adjusting mentality and closing down, you will have a mess of a tactic. You don't even know how much deeper they will drop or if changing from closing down more to default will be enough. The width you played with was also an issue in the Anzi-match you uploaded. Unless you know these things, shouts are shots in the dark and yes then you shouldn't use them.

I realise you are trying to be helpful, but making blanket statements about 'not using shouts' really doesn't help. A perfectly valid observation would be 'as soon as a team slider is being manually manipulated, then shouts become riskier if you don't know what you are doing'.

While I'd agree that dropping deeper when having a wide width and playing slowly is not a great thing to do, I'd argue that it was the manual width setting, not the drop deeper shout per se, that caused the problem. His team basically opened up masses of space, which was a combination of the two elements. If he had really wanted to keep things tight, he should have used 'drop deeper', 'play narrower', 'retain possession' and 'pass to feet'.

[marty78]

The remainder of your post is total nonsense. This thread won't be closed unless people start wading in being personal. The thread about the game being too easy posted prior to 12.1 resulted in a concerted effort from developers, moderators and users to discover what the issue was. A successful concerted effort too. If I think somebody has discovered a genuinely new and big bug, I'll personally report it to Paul.

Is that why the morale and effects of team talks based on rep were tweaked?

[wwfan]

Is that why the morale and effects of team talks based on rep were tweaked?

It was never team talks. It was the morale generated by wins and losses, which was too stable. Hence, if you won your opening couple of games, the team would remain happy and continue to play well. However, if you lost them, everybody would be in fits of despair.

The key change was sorting out corner deliveries and AI corner choices.

[Coentrao]

Regarding injuries, a lot of injuries seems to be caused by hard tackling from the AI, at least they are normally after challenges.

What exactly can you do to avoid that?

[Scab]

Rotate so you don't have low-condition players on the field (increased injury risk) and don't respond in kind (increased number of dangerous situations). If the pitch is bad, focus play on the less chewed-up flanks. Apart from that, not a whole lot I think. Facing a lot of hard-tackling, dirty opponents is risky. In the longer term, injury proneness should probably be a factor to consider seriously in squad building.

[marty78]

It was never team talks. It was the morale generated by wins and losses, which was too stable. Hence, if you won your opening couple of games, the team would remain happy and continue to play well. However, if you lost them, everybody would be in fits of despair.

The key change was sorting out corner deliveries and AI corner choices.

Ok thanks. I thought it had also become more difficult to motivate your players if you had a low rep.

Regarding injuries, a lot of injuries seems to be caused by hard tackling from the AI, at least they are normally after challenges.

What exactly can you do to avoid that?

I read elsewhere that while injury figures were realistic too many injuries happen in match situations, would you agree? It might be rubbish as I haven't compared stats but since reading that most injuries in my save are on a matchday. Training injuries only seem to be bruises etc and don't last long.

[BiggusD]

I realise you are trying to be helpful, but making blanket statements about 'not using shouts' really doesn't help. A perfectly valid observation would be 'as soon as a team slider is being manually manipulated, then shouts become riskier if you don't know what you are doing'.

While I'd agree that dropping deeper when having a wide width and playing slowly is not a great thing to do, I'd argue that it was the manual width setting, not the drop deeper shout per se, that caused the problem. His team basically opened up masses of space, which was a combination of the two elements. If he had really wanted to keep things tight, he should have used 'drop deeper', 'play narrower', 'retain possession' and 'pass to feet'.

Yes that was really what I was saying. Just dropping deeper very likely made his tactic worse in this match because the back four was backing off 20 meters before the full back decided it was time to close down, and when he did he just made things even worse because he opened up more space for Ansaldi to cross into. This was the third time Anzi did the exact same thing in this match. The other three goals were more random, but two of them included loss of possession in very dangerous places, so passing shorter and playing slower (possibly including Holding Up Ball) would not be strategies I would implement in such a match where my team would be naturally unfocused and their team desperately aggressive.

Exactly what to do with this tactic and this team in this match I don't know, but I do know the first thing I would set Heaven and Earth in motion to prevent is that disparage between defensive line (the spot where the defenders stop backing off), closing down (the spot where the individual player leaves his position) and mentality (the willingness to try a tackle). If these are adequately aligned in the original starting tactic, just clicking on "drop deeper" may in some cases disrupt the whole defensive balance of the tactic leading to silly behaviour like for instance a full back sprinting out of his correct position towards their winger before following him all the way to the corner flag and then letting him cross. Or as in this case, backing off holding the line until it is too late, and then leaving his position at the worst possible moment. The right combination of shouts in addition to "drop deeper", however, would of course let the user maintain balance while denying the opponent space, just like you said.

[scott MUFC]

starting to do my head in, 2 more goals conceded in a game, 2 penaltys, one guy stood there and got "shirt pulled" right after a kick off (ha that dumb kick off no player tackles junk) and a dive, My players always get punished for diving, yet thiers rarely do.

[Redbyrd]

Whereas on a artificial construct Luck or God definitely doesn't exist.

There's an idea for the FM2013 new feature list.

[Sardaukar]

I restarted my CL game with Man City vs. AC Milan twice...since Joe Hart conceded 2 own goals from back-passes in both. Was not amused.

I have played FM (and CM before) since 99-00. Most versions have been improvement over previous ones, but AI is AI. It took ages to make machine to beat top human chess player..and that is quite limited game compared to options AI has to consider.

FM12 still does some annoying things, like what I used to call "stealth injuries" to your players and their players can score statistically better than yours. When getting really annoyed, I just press "Tactics" and "Quit Game & Exit". Restart usually does wonders to my morale...bringing it from "Poor" to "Good".

It's still good game and AI feelings are not hurt.

[ambi!]

I really feel like giving up on the game completely. I play Wolves away with Arsenal. Odds are 3.2 - 2, so I am the favourite. I play a slow possesion based control tactic. have 60% possession, 6 shots all on target, no goals. The first cross that Kightly gave was converted by Fletcher (header): 1-0 for Wolves. This was their first shot in the game (8th minute) In the OIt he instructions I gave on Kightly were show on left foot, closing down always and tackling hard. What did my LB (Gibbs) do? He showed him outside en did not close down or tackle he gave him the amount of space I would expect with closing down never and tackling easy. I gave tight marking instructions on Fletcher, but Coscielny just forgot about him and left Sagna to pick him up who lost the header.

In the rest of the match chances were evenly distributed but possesion remained on 55%.

I am really at a loss here as the game gave me the signals that my strategy was spot on, the assman comment also stated this. Then they get one shot on target and bam! it is a goal.

For people that are interested here is the pkm:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-4250620/Wolves-v-Arsenal.pkm.html

[Scab]

Whereas on a artificial construct Luck or God definitely doesn't exist.

There's an idea for the FM2013 new feature list.

The outcome of the random number generator - what allows the concept of chance to exist in the game in the first place - is kinda luck, no?

[Coentrao]

I read elsewhere that while injury figures were realistic too many injuries happen in match situations, would you agree? It might be rubbish as I haven't compared stats but since reading that most injuries in my save are on a matchday. Training injuries only seem to be bruises etc and don't last long.

That's the impression i get, i don't have an issue with the overall number of injuries but the number of in-game injuries just seems way too high, and the whole hard tackling from the AI seems to be the culprit most times, specially if there's a considerable difference on the physical attributes between the players envolved.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I really feel like giving up on the game completely. I play Wolves away with Arsenal. Odds are 3.2 - 2, so I am the favourite. I play a slow possesion based control tactic. have 60% possession, 6 shots all on target, no goals. The first cross that Kightly gave was converted by Fletcher (header): 1-0 for Wolves. This was their first shot in the game (8th minute) In the OIt he instructions I gave on Kightly were show on left foot, closing down always and tackling hard. What did my LB (Gibbs) do? He showed him outside en did not close down or tackle he gave him the amount of space I would expect with closing down never and tackling easy. I gave tight marking instructions on Fletcher, but Coscielny just forgot about him and left Sagna to pick him up who lost the header.

In the rest of the match chances were evenly distributed but possesion remained on 55%.

I am really at a loss here as the game gave me the signals that my strategy was spot on, the assman comment also stated this. Then they get one shot on target and bam! it is a goal.

For people that are interested here is the pkm:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-4250620/Wolves-v-Arsenal.pkm.html

He just got caught out. You're playing a 4-1-2-2-1 with attacking wingers who in this ME basically play as strikers and never track back (especially on attacking mentality), leaving your full backs constantly one on one with the opposition wingers. I'm assuming your full backs have either support or attack duties (maybe even wing back roles) which expects them to get forward and not mark tightly. In that move for the Wolves goal Gibbs actually does close down and attempt to tackle but that's the problem - he isn't in a position to do so. He's holding his position and not getting tight which is what he's instructed to do. But then Kightly gets the ball, he recognizes the close down and tackle OI's and because he's the only player in a postition to do so tries to close down and make the tackle. He simply gets his angles wrong and is beaten by Kightly. Sagna picks up Fletcher at the back post because it's his zone. If you want Koscielny to always mark Fletcher you need to set specific marking instructions - that's the only way of getting man marking in FM. You also shouldn't set all three of close down often/show inside/tackle hard on opposition wingers - you need to pick whether you want your full back to shepherd him into your centre halves OR play him aggressively. He can't do both at once.

[aderow]

He just got caught out. You're playing a 4-1-2-2-1 with attacking wingers who in this ME basically play as strikers and never track back (especially on attacking mentality),

Thats something I don't like. Gotta have them man marking.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Thats something I don't like. Gotta have them man marking.

Specific man marking helps. But they still won't track back consistently, especially on attacking mentalities. Personally I don't use them at all. Can get pretty much similar attacking impact out of the ML/R position but you'll also get a defensive effort.