Finally think its tme i hung up my FM boots...

[Jibby123]

I would read this thread... http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/265214-If-there-s-a-fork-in-the-road...take-it...iacovone-s-quot-Around-The-World-quot-Career

...and use it as an inspiration. It certainly perks me up when I'm not doing very well.

Edit: the abridged version for if you can't be bothered to read the whole thread "Iacovone travels the world getting mostly dreadful results for mostly dreadful teams. But in a brilliant, amusing and somehow inspiring way."

Haha, excellent. Having just lost a computer that Bill Gates probably used in the 80's, so bought a new one he's inspired me alright. All leagues loaded, all playable. Start unemployed, lowest rep. Where the manager goes, nobody knows. I've never FM'd outside of Europe before.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Maybe you should go back to a version you enjoyed and see if you can download an update for it.

[shirajzl]

Roady99, as an experienced player of CM/FM series, I was once in the same boat after a few years break from FM. When I got into it again, I was baffled at how useless I was at the game.

However, the tide has changed once I realised a few things:

1. when scouting a player, value mental attributes plus pace above everything else

2. keep your tactics simple and logical, listen to what your scout has to say about next opponent and make slight changes accordingly

3. morale is more important than your tactics; keep your players happy and you're on your way to winning stuff; learn what team talks work for your players individually by trial and error, use private chats to boost their morale

[Roady99]

Forgive me if i come across as a person that just wants to *Win everything* But, Although i love the depth FM gives, I dont want to spend hours Scouting, Tweaking tactics and having private chats with every players thats slightly unhappy, Im sorry but for a game to be THAT indepth id have to give it more of my time than actually living in the real life, Its like having another fulltime job with more stress, All i want is FM to go back to what it was something even a casual player could stick on and actually enjoy, It seems if im not willing to put in hours and hours and detail pretty much everything, There really is not point in playing, As if i dont do these time consuming things my team loses moral my tactics fail and well that says it all, What happened? I know people cried for more indepth things but seriously all this extra indepth ie: Media, Moral, Hidden stats, Everything its killed the game for me, And i refuse to go back to an outdated game just to have that *Fun* again, Its like Si Games is trying to make the most detailed simulator around, Its not like if i win a league or cup on FM im going to learn anything in RL... And again, Rant over.

[shirajzl]

Forgive me if i come across as a person that just wants to *Win everything* But, Although i love the depth FM gives, I dont want to spend hours Scouting, Tweaking tactics and having private chats with every players thats slightly unhappy, Im sorry but for a game to be THAT indepth id have to give it more of my time than actually living in the real life, Its like having another fulltime job with more stress, All i want is FM to go back to what it was something even a casual player could stick on and actually enjoy, It seems if im not willing to put in hours and hours and detail pretty much everything, There really is not point in playing, As if i dont do these time consuming things my team loses moral my tactics fail and well that says it all, What happened? I know people cried for more indepth things but seriously all this extra indepth ie: Media, Moral, Hidden stats, Everything its killed the game for me, And i refuse to go back to an outdated game just to have that *Fun* again, Its like Si Games is trying to make the most detailed simulator around, Its not like if i win a league or cup on FM im going to learn anything in RL... And again, Rant over.

That's exactly how I felt...heck, I still do. I've been playing CM 01/02 with updated rosters (there's a whole site dedicated to updating that game) because it had exactly what I want from such a game. However, after 10 years or so, I simply got bored with it and started playing FM, even though I hate so many features with passion, like press conferences and the fact morale has such an impact on players' performance.

I play slowly, at my own pace, when the RL allows me and starting to find some fun in it. You need to get out of your head that you can just focus on transfers, tactics and picking a squad. That's the hard part. Those days of simple and causal football management games are over, as much as it pains me to admit.

[SazoJohnno]

You would come back to FM12! Like Pringles is - once you pop, you couldnt stop!

[Roady99]

You would come back to FM12! Like Pringles is - once you pop, you couldnt stop!

So very true, Although i hate to admit im actually starting to go off the game, The past 2 realeases have really annoyed me something rotten, And with FM12 already having its *Tones* I can already tell its going to be another epic fail and waste of money for me, But yes once again i shall buy it.

[Roady99]

That's exactly how I felt...heck, I still do. I've been playing CM 01/02 with updated rosters (there's a whole site dedicated to updating that game) because it had exactly what I want from such a game. However, after 10 years or so, I simply got bored with it and started playing FM, even though I hate so many features with passion, like press conferences and the fact morale has such an impact on players' performance.

I play slowly, at my own pace, when the RL allows me and starting to find some fun in it. You need to get out of your head that you can just focus on transfers, tactics and picking a squad. That's the hard part. Those days of simple and causal football management games are over, as much as it pains me to admit.

See, I would love them just to redo CM 01/02 none of this moral nonense none of the press conferences or any of it, I really dont have the time or patience for it, But being in the minority i know SI will just continue to add more and more depth to the game making it further and further out of my reach. FM will always be one of the greatest Football management games i just think it will push the casual people looking for a *Fun* game away, Thinking about it now there isnt actually a management game out that i could happily play anymore, I love the idea of building a team creating your own tactics seeing success but FM with its *Need* for detail is killing it

[SazoJohnno]

I am the same here, but somehow I couldnt get enough of FM at all.

[shirajzl]

See, I would love them just to redo CM 01/02 none of this moral nonense none of the press conferences or any of it, I really dont have the time or patience for it, But being in the minority i know SI will just continue to add more and more depth to the game making it further and further out of my reach. FM will always be one of the greatest Football management games i just think it will push the casual people looking for a *Fun* game away, Thinking about it now there isnt actually a management game out that i could happily play anymore, I love the idea of building a team creating your own tactics seeing success but FM with its *Need* for detail is killing it

I know a lot of hard core CM/FM players who have given up on FM for the reasons above. Luckily for SI, there will always be new kids who buy the game just to play a couple of seasons with Man City and win everything.

[nessi]

have to agree that morale, form and teamtalks have become way too relevant in FM.

what's next... six different tones for conversations?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I know a lot of hard core CM/FM players who have given up on FM for the reasons above. Luckily for SI, there will always be new kids who buy the game just to play a couple of seasons with Man City and win everything.

A couple of years ago they used to say that about Man Utd........

[Kriss]

I don't talk to my players, I don't talk to the press, I do just fine with the teams I manage, the effects of morale are way over rated.

[Roady99]

have to agree that morale, form and teamtalks have become way too relevant in FM.

what's next... six different tones for conversations?

By far the most exciting new addition to FM yet, I mean what could i want more than to tell Tevez in an happy tone that im glad he didnt warm up for the Bayern match

[Roady99]

I don't talk to my players, I don't talk to the press, I do just fine with the teams I manage, the effects of morale are way over rated.

I dont do either, But nothing can explain my players, Playing regulary, Playing well going from Superb to Unhappy within a couple of games without losing, And then go to a losing streak for no reason... Moral, Playr interaction and Press conferences have wayyy to much impact than id like, Scrap em all and im happy

[Kriss]

I dont do either, But nothing can explain my players, Playing regulary, Playing well going from Superb to Unhappy within a couple of games without losing, And then go to a losing streak for no reason... Moral, Playr interaction and Press conferences have wayyy to much impact than id like, Scrap em all and im happy

They might in FM11, although I believe it's exaggerated.

I'm pretty sure the illogical swings will have been sorted for FM12.

From what I've seen I might actually be tempted to talk to some of my players in FM12 (not too often though:D)

I'll never attend press conferences, I don't believe they do have much effect.

[Roady99]

They might in FM11, although I believe it's exaggerated.

I'm pretty sure the illogical swings will have been sorted for FM12.

From what I've seen I might actually be tempted to talk to some of my players in FM12 (not too often though:D)

I'll never attend press conferences, I don't believe they do have much effect.

I really do hope its been sorted for FM12, I ove the series i really do been playing CM/FM since before i can remember, But if it continues to be this frustrating to succeed even a little i will have no choice but to just give up, I know ive done nothing but rant, But thats what playing a game for nearly a year with no success brings lol, Its like being a First person shooter and told to complete it without a gun :|

[d_e4life]

Download Mr Hough's tactics, as close to plug and play as you can get for FM11. They sometimes take a few weeks to kick in but once your players get used to them you'll win more than you lose.

[Roady99]

Download Mr Hough's tactics, as close to plug and play as you can get for FM11. They sometimes take a few weeks to kick in but once your players get used to them you'll win more than you lose.

Been there done that, And as i stated previously i dont get any self satisfaction if im needing others to basically do the best part of the game (For me/ Bar transfers) .

In the good old days id beable to make a tatic all by myself, To do that now you have to spend hours looking at the ME and probably have some sort of UEFA coaching license

[noikeee]

Forgive me if i come across as a person that just wants to *Win everything* But, Although i love the depth FM gives, I dont want to spend hours Scouting, Tweaking tactics and having private chats with every players thats slightly unhappy, Im sorry but for a game to be THAT indepth id have to give it more of my time than actually living in the real life, Its like having another fulltime job with more stress, All i want is FM to go back to what it was something even a casual player could stick on and actually enjoy, It seems if im not willing to put in hours and hours and detail pretty much everything, There really is not point in playing, As if i dont do these time consuming things my team loses moral my tactics fail and well that says it all, What happened? I know people cried for more indepth things but seriously all this extra indepth ie: Media, Moral, Hidden stats, Everything its killed the game for me, And i refuse to go back to an outdated game just to have that *Fun* again, Its like Si Games is trying to make the most detailed simulator around, Its not like if i win a league or cup on FM im going to learn anything in RL... And again, Rant over.

Yeah I sort of understand, I can keep up with this level of detail because my social life during the year is boring but I can definitely see that it's not for everyone, and the media/chatey/psychological side of the game has become a bit too much of a central aspect of the game (and it's only going to get even worse with the tone thing). But like I said an assman with 20 for motivation is handy if you don't want to care too much about that. It's also not rocket science to learn a little bit about team talks, it's all about managing the team in the sweet spot between complacency and nervousness, while trying to remain positive to optimize morale.

Also, SI staff would typically show up at this point of the thread and say "why don't you buy Handheld, it's simplified for people like you". But I agree it's not the same thing.

However I think it's a bit too much to ask for an easy game tactically, and at the same time wanting to feel rewarded by getting success through your tactics. Notice that SI can't please everyone because while lots of people feel like you, there's also lots of tactical geeks like me who love the challenge.

[Andy Anon_2]

1. Never tweak tactics. 4-3-1-2 works.

2. Interactions - When they're down build them up. When they're up demand them down.

3. Buy players only who work for team (teamwork), are determind to do well and work hard.

4. Buy the best players you can afford.

5. Defenders positioning, marking, jumping, tackling.

6. Midfielders pass the ball.

7. Strikers off the ball, pace, finishing.

8. Wingers went out with Alf Ramsey. Don't need them.

It's not that much an overcomplicated game.

[Roady99]

Dont get me wrong i do love a challenge when it comes to tatics, But when a challenge turns into a nigh impossible mission i say enough is enough, I dont expect every tatic i create to win me matchs nor do i expect my first attempt to be good/easy, But what i do want is after a year of playing, To be able to actually *Think* I know enough to win 1 peice of silverwear, Ive tried so many suggestions from this forum its boardering on the absurd, I dont want a game thats going to take me 5 hours to play one match nor do i want to have to read up on team talks, Player motivation, Correct staff or what each attribute for each position means, The game takes long enough without all these factors as it is, I dont mind spending hour after hour on a game thats challenging, But no one where no matter what i do i acheive nothing but a headache, Maybe its because im getting old and my patience is thining....

[Roady99]

1. Never tweak tactics. 4-3-1-2 works.

2. Interactions - When they're down build them up. When they're up demand them down.

3. Buy players only who work for team (teamwork), are determind to do well and work hard.

4. Buy the best players you can afford.

5. Defenders positioning, marking, jumping, tackling.

6. Midfielders pass the ball.

7. Strikers off the ball, pace, finishing.

8. Wingers went out with Alf Ramsey. Don't need them.

It's not that much an overcomplicated game.

Now if only it was that simple aye , Id have won everything by now, But alas its not

[joetheref]

You remind me of me Roady, started a game with Barcelona and finished 3rd in Champions League group stage, thought I'd win the Europa League at least but drew Man City and lost

[laBOMBA]

There's two ways of playing this game.

1) Building your tactics slowly over the course of a career or even more than one career.

2) Downloading a tactic or a set of tactics that work for other people.

1 is far more rewarding, but 2 is far less time-consuming. If you lack patience then don't even try 1. I'm puzzled as why 2 isn't working for you though. Where are you getting your tactics from, and are you following the instructions? These days there's very few plug-and-play tactics, often people offer a little assistance in the form of a few different variations of the tactic and instructions on when to use each. And which kinds of players fit the tactic.

If you're following all that and still tripping up, then it gets weirder, perhaps it's a teamtalk/morale issue? Morale is so overpowered in this game. Hire a assman with motivation of 20 or nearly 20, and let him do all the talking to the players and press.

Couldn't agree more with 1)

There is never a perfect tactic that makes you win everything and you need to constantly adjust depending on opponents and players in your squad

[Andy Anon_2]

Now if only it was that simple aye , Id have won everything by now, But alas its not

It's worked for me years. I don't win everything. That would be unrealistic. But I'm good.

Get the basics squared away and you're away. My 1-8 are the bible of basics. They work

[Roady99]

Couldn't agree more with 1)

There is never a perfect tactic that makes you win everything and you need to constantly adjust depending on opponents and players in your squad

Soo many conflicting bits of advice, This is why i try to avoid looking on here for tatical advice, One person says never tweak tatics, Others say you need to keep adjusting them, Some say dont buy lots of players, Others tell me buy the best. At the end of the day when i first started playing CM/FM id never even come online to even consider looking for advice on tactics and such, But as time goes on i find myself more on here and less on the game due to the fact i can never get into a game im constantly rubbish at, Now i know im no Fergie, But id like to think i watch/play enough football myself to know what i want from a team, But trying to implement it on this game at get it to work is nigh on impossible, If i get the attack right my defence act like a pub team, If i shore up my defence i cant score, If i dont tweak my tatics they eventually fail, If i do tweak them my team never gets used to the tatics, If i dont buy good players i fail, If i do buy good players the team doesn gel, Moral has no basis what so ever, Meaning by that one minute the team is superb next they are all ready to jump off a bridge without even muttering a word to them, Team starts winning constantly they become overly complacent, Team losing constantly well says it all ... And again, Rant over.

[Roady99]

It's worked for me years. I don't win everything. That would be unrealistic. But I'm good.

Get the basics squared away and you're away. My 1-8 are the bible of basics. They work

Winning everything would spoil it for me, But winning that pointless cup no prem team actually takes seriously would be nice once JUST once lol, Saying that qualifying for it would be nice too!

[wwfan]

Firstly, don't buy into the morale is over important argument. The effect of morale has been consistently reduced in the ME over the last few versions of FM. There are always tactical solutions.

Secondly, if you always buy lots of new players, particularly if they don't speak the language, you are going to have a flaky team that doesn't perform consistently for at least six months. Results will be somewhat random. Use the team blend match preparation to overcome this as quickly as possible.

Thirdly, learn some tactical basics:

• If you are using a system in which most of your players play deep, use a less aggressive mentality
  
• If you are using a system in which most of your players play high, use a more aggressive mentality
  
• Be prepared to drop into a defensive mindset away from home or to see out tight games, especially when the team isn't well gelled
  
• Be prepared to lengthen your passing in bad weather conditions
  
• Trust the TC. Don't manually tweak sliders, ever, unless you are 100% sure why you are doing it
  
• Learn how the shouts work. They can impose a style of play or be used to counter conditions or opposing formation. Develop combinations that seem logical for you for various scenarios.
  

Fourthly, learn some expectations management:

• If the team is flaky and ungelled, never build up pressure. Always use 'take the pressure off' team talks and press conference options
  
• If the team is well-disciplined and professional, always build the pressure up in team talks or press conferences (with the occasional 'casting doubt' if you are on a long run of good form)
  
• If the team is somewhere between the two, use the match odds to determine which option best suits
  
• When morale is very low or very high, be more willing to reduce or exert pressure, no mater the nature of your squad
  
• Make sure you know how to boost your key performers in one-to-one conversations with them (do they respond to 'take pressure off' or 'add expectations')
  

Finally, visit the tactics forum to get extra help when you run into brick walls. You will generally get good advice.

[BiggusD]

Dont get me wrong i do love a challenge when it comes to tatics, But when a challenge turns into a nigh impossible mission i say enough is enough, I dont expect every tatic i create to win me matchs nor do i expect my first attempt to be good/easy, But what i do want is after a year of playing, To be able to actually *Think* I know enough to win 1 peice of silverwear, Ive tried so many suggestions from this forum its boardering on the absurd, I dont want a game thats going to take me 5 hours to play one match nor do i want to have to read up on team talks, Player motivation, Correct staff or what each attribute for each position means, The game takes long enough without all these factors as it is, I dont mind spending hour after hour on a game thats challenging, But no one where no matter what i do i acheive nothing but a headache, Maybe its because im getting old and my patience is thining....

Yeah SI has moved away from that game. It is no longer there. You can have success without doing all the detaily stuff, but you wouldn't know why you succeeded then. Basically, if you cannot be bothered reading up on the reasoning behind the scenes you will have success and failure based on assumptions and superstition.

The first thing you will need to do is to rid yourself of the notion that a loss means you did something wrong. This may not be the case at all. Even if you do everything right you may still lose. A striker who is having a severe goal drought can be brought back into scoring form by telling him that he isn't under pressure to score, but this doesn't always work, and even if it does it could take a while. The tactic may not be what's wrong when you lose, since sometimes they just score first and the match will become a struggle no matter what you do. What appears as you being ass-whooped from the highlights may actually be them counter-attacking all the time. "Big chances" missed may not be so big anyways.

Many human managers expect to see the kind of football the team is playing when in super-form all the time! Maintaining such a form over time is very difficult without a team of determined professionals, and quite frankly Burnley (iirc) has none of those. It takes 5-10 years to build something like that, not 6 months.

If you uploaded your savegame, maybe someone could take a look at it to see if they (I) can spot any obvious problems.

Hell, I can upload my Las Palmas save (2022) for you if you want to try the game at its easiest. I can't imagine how anyone could screw that up (I am just playing it to see how my "interventions" at Liverpool and other clubs are going, as Las Palmas is run by itself).

[Roady99]

Hell, I can upload my Las Palmas save (2022) for you if you want to try the game at its easiest. I can't imagine how anyone could screw that up (I am just playing it to see how my "interventions" at Liverpool and other clubs are going, as Las Palmas is run by itself).

Uploaded said savegame here http://www.mediafire.com/?hmy4ctfshevt745 Although please dont take any note of the current formation as by this time i had already given up lol

[wwfan]

First of all, you're 6th after 16 matches. Why is that an issue? I was expecting mid-table mediocrity. I'm assuming you promised the earth in the pre-season budget chat and are not delivering?

Secondly, you have only one go to tactic in your match preparation. No aggressive or defensive alternatives when you need them. Limits your options and only harms your own team. I'd have an aggressive 4-2-4 and a defensive 4-2-2-2 available as well.

Thirdly, you have your Assistant Manager doing everything by default, which means you are unable to properly exert or reduce pressure. He was being extremely critical even after a good performance in which the team was unlucky to only draw. Not what you need with a young, flaky squad.

Fourthly, in your starting eleven, only one player has played for Burnley for more than one season. It's also an extremely young team and a number of players don't speak English. Flakiness is going to be guaranteed. I played one match and your defence is so ungelled it is untrue.

Fifthly, you have a very poor duty set up, which will result in no movement between the lines. Both of your FCs are pushing high, neither of your FBs are providing support out wide.

You've committed the common error of packing your squad with young talent and expecting that will be enough to succeed. You aren't actually doing anything else in your managerial role. No man management, no tactical management, no media management. you are just pressing continue and hoping to do well. It's an old cliche, but fail to prepare and prepare to fail.

My advice is to build the two extra go to tactics and take over the expectations management from your Ass Man. Slow down the actual matches and change things around when it is obvious the team is not going to do well. Actually manage the team a little. Another 20% effort on your part will result in the team going on to win the league.

[llama3]

If you cannot do anything else, then here is my basic 4-4-2

Balanced philosophy, all team instructions default

goalkeeper - defend

central defender - defend x 2

full back - automatic x 2

wide midfielder - attack x 2

central midfielder - defend

central midfielder - support

deep-lying forward - support

poacher - attack

now if you cannot get some consistency with that then you are doing something seriously wrong. now that formation will obviously not work for every team, but i would be stunned if it didnt give you a base to work from

[pauly1616]

Completely agree with the opening post, for me the tactical side of the game has become impossible to intuit. A quick look through "match analysis" has convinced me that the players are not even remotely doing what I think I'm asking them to do, for example when I play 20/20 width and tell wingbacks to hug the touchline then look at their 'average position' in match analysis I'm amazed. I find 11.3 reasonably unplayable as well too as I've built a side based on counter attacking with quick small strikers and playing through the middle, and I find the number of 1v1's missed to be just absurd. The problem remains the ambiguity, the inter-connnectedness of the sliders and their effect on each other is counter-intuitive, mis-labelled and often just seems contradictory. Things should be simplified and re-labelled so we can clearly understand what we're asking again.

Also this:

Trust the TC. Don't manually tweak sliders, ever, unless you are 100% sure why you are doing it

is a symptom of what I'm saying above. If we're at this stage then it's truly a sad day for Football Manager.

[Guest]

I know exactly what the OP means.

Its not so much tactics anymore like the old days, but its team team talks.

I had the exact same problem and I made the exact same post. I would win every home game and lose every away game, and was left scratching my head what I was doing wrong. I was baffled and had to come to the forums and ask for help. I soon discovered it was my team talks causing the performances.

I dont want it to be that, its the worst part of the game, its boring, its badly simulated (it cant be simulated) made into the one of the most important parts (far too important part).

I'm not saying team talks are more powerful than tactics, but team talks have gone from not even existing, to being a very important part of the game.

And you can be confused by wether it was the tactic that lost or the team talk.

Its a change that some pre team talk FMers arent that keen on.

[wwfan]

It isn't team talks. There are too many people looking for a simple solution on these forums. Every single time I've seen a game, pkm or tactical file for a user complaining in the manner of the OP, the user is doing a number of things badly.

1: He often has a completely ungelled squad full of new signings, many of whom are young and don't speak the language

2: He often has some serious tactical deficiencies (in the OP's case, a lack of movement between the lines)

3: He has no alternative tactics to employ if his starting tactic isn't doing the job

4: He plays the matches so fast and on key highlights, resulting in him having no read on the match and being unable to change things around

5: The Assistant Manager is set up to do pretty much everything

6: Consequently, other than buying players, he doesn't do much more than press continue

The only element of the game the user actually changes is the team talks. Hence, it is the only element of the game that CAN change things. If he actually embraced other elements, team talks would become a minor weapon in his armoury.

If you could win consistently in FM simply by doing the above, it wouldn't be a very good game. It does require a modicum of thought and effort.

[boppa]

It isn't team talks. There are too many people looking for a simple solution on these forums. Every single time I've seen a game, pkm or tactical file for a user complaining in the manner of the OP, the user is doing a number of things badly.

1: He often has a completely ungelled squad full of new signings, many of whom are young and don't speak the language

2: He often has some serious tactical deficiencies (in the OP's case, a lack of movement between the lines)

3: He has no alternative tactics to employ if his starting tactic isn't doing the job

4: He plays the matches so fast and on key highlights, resulting in him having no read on the match and being unable to change things around

5: The Assistant Manager is set up to do pretty much everything

6: Consequently, other than buying players, he doesn't do much more than press continue

The only element of the game the user actually changes is the team talks. Hence, it is the only element of the game that CAN change things. If he actually embraced other elements, team talks would become a minor weapon in his armoury.

If you could win consistently in FM simply by doing the above, it wouldn't be a very good game. It does require a modicum of thought and effort.

all fair points WWFan

and i regard you as one of the most learned tactical experts on this forum

but obviously some people play the game differently to others. some people dont have the time or patience to set up a range of detailed tactics, to understand the ins and outs of tactical football, to watch entire games or to bother with the much hated team talks

i agree its a football management game and therefore all these elements are important. and i personally would like to watch a full game and tinker with the tactics in order to get the win. however from my personal experience, often the changes made mid game are barely noticeable to the average punter. we can change settings and hope for the best but it will appear nothnig has happened.. and if a manager is not astute enough to notice that such and such needs to be done, its obviously only a game of luck in order to jag the right combination of 'tactics' at any one time

[wwfan]

all fair points WWFan

and i regard you as one of the most learned tactical experts on this forum

but obviously some people play the game differently to others. some people dont have the time or patience to set up a range of detailed tactics, to understand the ins and outs of tactical football, to watch entire games or to bother with the much hated team talks

i agree its a football management game and therefore all these elements are important. and i personally would like to watch a full game and tinker with the tactics in order to get the win. however from my personal experience, often the changes made mid game are barely noticeable to the average punter. we can change settings and hope for the best but it will appear nothnig has happened.. and if a manager is not astute enough to notice that such and such needs to be done, its obviously only a game of luck in order to jag the right combination of 'tactics' at any one time

There's patience and there's not bothering

It takes about 5 minutes to put together a set of three match prep tactics in the TC. If you go Attacking, Standard and Defensive, even for the least astute manager, it isn't going to be difficult to work out which one you should start a match with. Add in the most basic knowledge that a short passing game is going to struggle in bad weather and you'll have a relatively solid starting position.

I've been playing through the save the OP uploaded. He's left himself in the following position:

1: Too big a first team squad (26 players) with no squad management (none of these players play reserve football), meaning if he has to rotate players in, they are always severely lacking in match fitness

2: No back up tactics, meaning he is at a severe disadvantage against the AI, which will, after 16 games, have three match trained tactics for its squad.

3: A poorly designed tactic with some random manual slider tweaks

4: A 48-month transfer paying policy, which is sucking money out of the club

5: A total unwillingness to play experienced players, meaning the team falls apart under even the slightest of pressure

6: A young, ungelled squad, nearly all of whom have low morale because the team is under-performing based on pre-season expectations, being managed by a low reputation manager who doesn't do any man-management work

7: He plays the games at almost the highest match speed, which leads me to the conclusion he doesn't actually do any in-match management at all

However much one wants to defend the casual player, this is a total lack of thought and effort. He's bought some young, talented players, built one tactic, and presses continue. Consequently, he is underachieving. If he wasn't, I'd argue that FM wasn't a good game at all.

Now, he's obviously willing to spend effort to build and download a number of tactics. Rather than expend effort in these areas, he could do it in game. If he did and slowed down game progression a little bit, he'd reap the rewards and start enjoying FM again. As it is, he's left the Burnley side in a terrible state.

[boppa]

well i cant really disagree with you there at all

all good points, well made

i guess the only advice i could give to the OP, if he chooses to play that way, which many people do, is to play Man City or Barca and have a little fun that way. Surely even the most inept manager cant lose with Barca! lol

[wwfan]

He's basically put himself in an untenable position. He's having to do all the work he should have done in the first three months of the season in months 4-6. Every other team is relatively well acquainted with their tactics by now. Burnley's squad is still all over the shop if they want to play aggressively or cautiously. That means that in pretty much every match he's at a tactical disadvantage.

[Roady99]

First of all, you're 6th after 16 matches. Why is that an issue? I was expecting mid-table mediocrity. I'm assuming you promised the earth in the pre-season budget chat and are not delivering?

Secondly, you have only one go to tactic in your match preparation. No aggressive or defensive alternatives when you need them. Limits your options and only harms your own team. I'd have an aggressive 4-2-4 and a defensive 4-2-2-2 available as well.

Thirdly, you have your Assistant Manager doing everything by default, which means you are unable to properly exert or reduce pressure. He was being extremely critical even after a good performance in which the team was unlucky to only draw. Not what you need with a young, flaky squad.

Fourthly, in your starting eleven, only one player has played for Burnley for more than one season. It's also an extremely young team and a number of players don't speak English. Flakiness is going to be guaranteed. I played one match and your defence is so ungelled it is untrue.

Fifthly, you have a very poor duty set up, which will result in no movement between the lines. Both of your FCs are pushing high, neither of your FBs are providing support out wide.

You've committed the common error of packing your squad with young talent and expecting that will be enough to succeed. You aren't actually doing anything else in your managerial role. No man management, no tactical management, no media management. you are just pressing continue and hoping to do well. It's an old cliche, but fail to prepare and prepare to fail.

My advice is to build the two extra go to tactics and take over the expectations management from your Ass Man. Slow down the actual matches and change things around when it is obvious the team is not going to do well. Actually manage the team a little. Another 20% effort on your part will result in the team going on to win the league.

All very good points, But like i said when i uploaded the savefile, DONT pay attention to anything as by this time i gave up, Yes your points are valid about the team ie: Age/Gel etc etc, But id also point out the fact that it doesnt matter to me if its a team that hasnt been touched or been touched at all, You can go on saying how i dont have enough tatics but as i have stated sooo many times i have created/downloaded so many its untrue and the reason there are none left in the drop down box are that i deleted them all out of frustration, This is not the only save where i havent got what i considered decent form, You can say 6th is ok, But for the team that was assembled i dont think 6th is any where near good enough regardless of team gelling. Tell me that im asking too much or wanting too much, But as i say this is not the only save that i have had problems with i could take control of the best club in the world and ulitmatly fail

[Roady99]

It isn't team talks. There are too many people looking for a simple solution on these forums. Every single time I've seen a game, pkm or tactical file for a user complaining in the manner of the OP, the user is doing a number of things badly.

1: He often has a completely ungelled squad full of new signings, many of whom are young and don't speak the language

2: He often has some serious tactical deficiencies (in the OP's case, a lack of movement between the lines)

3: He has no alternative tactics to employ if his starting tactic isn't doing the job

4: He plays the matches so fast and on key highlights, resulting in him having no read on the match and being unable to change things around

5: The Assistant Manager is set up to do pretty much everything

6: Consequently, other than buying players, he doesn't do much more than press continue

The only element of the game the user actually changes is the team talks. Hence, it is the only element of the game that CAN change things. If he actually embraced other elements, team talks would become a minor weapon in his armoury.

If you could win consistently in FM simply by doing the above, it wouldn't be a very good game. It does require a modicum of thought and effort.

Right, I know im going to get god knows how much flack for saying this, BUT i dont want to spend hours and hours between matches analysing EVERYTHING, I want to have a fun enjoyable game, This is a game no matter how many people tell me its a *Simulator* Im sorry but my life will not revolve around FM and if im to do everything that is *Required* To succeed id spend an enternity per season, I dont want to handle press conferences, Talk to players, Creat god knows how many tatics for god knows how many scenarios, I want to buy players press that space bar/ Click continue and ENJOY a game like i used to beable to.

[Roady99]

well i cant really disagree with you there at all

all good points, well made

i guess the only advice i could give to the OP, if he chooses to play that way, which many people do, is to play Man City or Barca and have a little fun that way. Surely even the most inept manager cant lose with Barca! lol

So basically, Because i do not want to spend the time with all the detail, Im restricted to 2 teams to *Enjoy* a game? Well that is pretty pointless is it not? Remember the old days when you could Enjoy FM without spending a whole day just setting up tatics and attending press conferences?

[wwfan]

All very good points, But like i said when i uploaded the savefile, DONT pay attention to anything as by this time i gave up, Yes your points are valid about the team ie: Age/Gel etc etc, But id also point out the fact that it doesnt matter to me if its a team that hasnt been touched or been touched at all, You can go on saying how i dont have enough tatics but as i have stated sooo many times i have created/downloaded so many its untrue and the reason there are none left in the drop down box are that i deleted them all out of frustration, This is not the only save where i havent got what i considered decent form, You can say 6th is ok, But for the team that was assembled i dont think 6th is any where near good enough regardless of team gelling. Tell me that im asking too much or wanting too much, But as i say this is not the only save that i have had problems with i could take control of the best club in the world and ulitmatly fail

Few questions:

1: Were you using match prep at all? From what I can tell, you haven't touched it as no formation or strategy even seems remotely gelled. I don't have the option to use aggressive or cautious tactics when they are the best option as nothing seems to have been trained.

2: What do you do in matches? At the speed you play, it looks to me like you'd be doing nothing at all.

3: Have you ever tried to run a simple 3 tactic match prep strategy in which you rotate the tactics depending on your expectations of the match? Or is your tactical downloading / building all based around discovering one super tactic that works for all matches in all conditions?

4: Yes, you have a good squad. But it is not gelled, it is too big, it is too young, you aren't training tactics, you aren't man managing and you aren't media managing. Don't you think that 6th is pretty good given the above?

[wwfan]

Right, I know im going to get god knows how much flack for saying this, BUT i dont want to spend hours and hours between matches analysing EVERYTHING, I want to have a fun enjoyable game, This is a game no matter how many people tell me its a *Simulator* Im sorry but my life will not revolve around FM and if im to do everything that is *Required* To succeed id spend an enternity per season, I dont want to handle press conferences, Talk to players, Creat god knows how many tatics for god knows how many scenarios, I want to buy players press that space bar/ Click continue and ENJOY a game like i used to beable to.

That's fair enough, but you have to manage something. You aren't doing any man-management, any media management or trying to develop any form of sophisticated tactical strategy. You are just buying young, talented players. It is not going to be enough. You have to actually do some managing to some extent to succeed!

[axehan1]

mate when are you going to understand that what you want is not EVER going to happen.do yourself and everyone else a favour and boot up an old champ manager game and enjoy that.we are now in the fm age which is ever evolving.we get the point that you are useless with tactics(although i'm still scratching my head as to how you couldn't get any success playing as man city?i mean my 5 year old managed to win the bloody premiership with them by buying a few players and just pressing the continue button).Hang on a sec.....isn't that all you have ever wanted to do with this game?Man,maybe you are right with your threads name,do us all a favour and hang up your fm boots....PLEASE.

[Roady99]

Few questions:

1: Were you using match prep at all? From what I can tell, you haven't touched it as no formation or strategy even seems remotely gelled. I don't have the option to use aggressive or cautious tactics when they are the best option as nothing seems to have been trained.

2: What do you do in matches? At the speed you play, it looks to me like you'd be doing nothing at all.

3: Have you ever tried to run a simple 3 tactic match prep strategy in which you rotate the tactics depending on your expectations of the match? Or is your tactical downloading / building all based around discovering one super tactic that works for all matches in all conditions?

4: Yes, you have a good squad. But it is not gelled, it is too big, it is too young, you aren't training tactics, you aren't man managing and you aren't media managing. Don't you think that 6th is pretty good given the above?

Match prep was on team gel and a set of tactics, I did get it all to fluid but the players all still ran around like headless chickens, There have been many times/Many save games when i have spent more than enough time setting up tactics/waiting for team gels heck times i dont even buy any players at all, But its been over a year now and my patience with the game has wore so thin its unbelivable, I put the match on that speed because quite fankly ive lost the spark that kept me going all those years ago, When i thought looking at a match would make a difference, I dont know how many times i have to say this but this Burnley savegame is only a hint of what things are like, I dont have any old saves as i deleted them out of pure annoyance.

[Roady99]

That's fair enough, but you have to manage something. You aren't doing any man-management, any media management or trying to develop any form of sophisticated tactical strategy. You are just buying young, talented players. It is not going to be enough. You have to actually do some managing to some extent to succeed!

As stated before, Its at the point now where i think, Why bother?

[wwfan]

Match prep was on team gel and a set of tactics, I did get it all to fluid but the players all still ran around like headless chickens, There have been many times/Many save games when i have spent more than enough time setting up tactics/waiting for team gels heck times i dont even buy any players at all, But its been over a year now and my patience with the game has wore so thin its unbelivable, I put the match on that speed because quite fankly ive lost the spark that kept me going all those years ago, When i thought looking at a match would make a difference, I dont know how many times i have to say this but this Burnley savegame is only a hint of what things are like, I dont have any old saves as i deleted them out of pure annoyance.

1: Can you explain your tactical strategy? When you say a set of tactics, what were they? How did you manage them in match situations? Did you use shouts to supplement them?

2: Gelling isn't the be all and end all. A team is easier to manage when the squad has gelled and the tactics are trained, but it is not enough in itself. Have you ever visited the tactical forum and read some of the theory threads? They will help you a lot.

3: More than enough time setting up tactics? Using the TC, it is a 5-10 minute job. You really shouldn't be spending much more time than that designing a set of three. Designing a good set piece routine takes a little longer. Your corner routine lost possession about 90% of the time, resulting in Burnley getting hammered on the counter. Even sorting that out would help a fair bit.

[Roady99]

1: Can you explain your tactical strategy? When you say a set of tactics, what were they? How did you manage them in match situations? Did you use shouts to supplement them?

2: Gelling isn't the be all and end all. A team is easier to manage when the squad has gelled and the tactics are trained, but it is not enough in itself. Have you ever visited the tactical forum and read some of the theory threads? They will help you a lot.

3: More than enough time setting up tactics? Using the TC, it is a 5-10 minute job. You really shouldn't be spending much more time than that designing a set of three. Designing a good set piece routine takes a little longer. Your corner routine lost possession about 90% of the time, resulting in Burnley getting hammered on the counter. Even sorting that out would help a fair bit.

I have read so much in the tactic forum its unbeleivable, Ive read alot of your stuff and it was your stuff that gave me the *Want* to succeed, My *Want* for my tactical setups (In previous saves) was to try and play a short passing pressing game, IE, Id usually have Control as my attacking setup with short passing, Usually playing a 4-5-1/4-3-3 with inside forwards, An achor man in DM, with a box to box and a playmaker, As this is how i like to think my team in RL play, (Liverpool), defence is made up of the two full backs on support, With the two CBs (Now i know alot of people like to have short passing to keep the ball, But ive always said to myself, I aint no Barca and i dont want my team to get themselves caught when defending so i like my CBs to punt the ball forward, Ala Carragher (Although i do shout at the tv when he does this), I also create a defensive tatic built around the same mould with *Counter* as the stratagey as i feel going too defensive with no counter will eventually lead to defeat anyway (As they say best form of defence is to attack) I dont actually have a standard tactic, I will usually use one of the two depending on form/match odds/opponents, To be fair i can see my tactics being a problem but with the fact with what im getting on here, Even if i did create a brilliant tactic i wouldnt know as i refuse to sit there and do press conferences/interact with players, So for me is there really any point if im not willing to take on this part of the game?