FM2011 Demo - Same Problems Year After Year

[LincolnCanary]

I've got to say I read these comments and wonder if some of you guys have downloaded another demo.

The player interaction is a little limited, sure. But it's far better than what was in place previously. And those of you encountering player revolts because of your discussions must be doing something wrong. I have similar outcomes as SSGTroyer with my players. I wonder how many of you are trying to be ruthless before actually building a relationship with your players?

[Neil Brock]

I do quite like the game,and I would always buy the new release coz its always been my fav game,but its just `same old,same old` really isnt it?

However the biggest issue for me is that time and time again,after installing,the bloody thing just wont work and Ive had to resort to downloading swiftshader just to get mine to work,which cant be right surely.SI shouldnt 3rd party downloads to get it to work.Im sure I will have the same issues on Nov 5th.

To be fair most of the people who have this issue are running a graphics card under minimum spec - however despite this we are working on something which will resolve this issue for the majority of people suffering with it. Cheers.

[Sharpy07]

I've got to say I read these comments and wonder if some of you guys have downloaded another demo.

The player interaction is a little limited, sure. But it's far better than what was in place previously. And those of you encountering player revolts because of your discussions must be doing something wrong. I have similar outcomes as SSGTroyer with my players. I wonder how many of you are trying to be ruthless before actually building a relationship with your players?

Thats a good point. Like IRL u couldn't just walk into a club having built no relationship with any of your players and then start demanding everything under the sun from them. Once u've built up a relationship with them and they become ur favoured personel, the converstations between manager and player would be alot smoother.

[Pete S]

Well, after reading this whole thread, I thought I actually reply to the OP.

Personally, I haven't had a single player sent off in eight friendlies, eight league matches, and three Carling Cups ((we got knocked out by ManU, away, 1-0) heck, I don't even have anyone with more than 2 yellows). My Reading side is sitting third in the CH, 6-1-1, 15 goals scored to 4 conceded...I'm not losing games in the closing minutes. My STs aren't that good at finishing, so I'm not put off by some of the shocking misses I've been seeing. Based on my experiences, I'd say the second part of your post has something to do with the way you're playing the game, because if I can do it using the same program you are, than so can you. Either I'm doing something you're not, you're doing something I'm not, or both.

As to player interaction, I've had positive and negative reactions...more positive than negative, and I firmly believe I can control the output as long as I control the input. I don't know my players well enough yet, and won't get to know them well enough in the demo. Yes, player interaction can destroy a squad in seconds. But any @sshol!c manager can do that IRL. We should have the ability, too... My problem is that, even though I talk to three or four players after every match, I'm told in my profile that I "rarely" talk to them. Horsehockey. But maybe late September isn't enough time for my profile to develop a history. I hope that's the case, anyway...

Good points made here. As I play the demo more and more, I have found the sendings off and other niggles with the ME have largely gone away. I have not changed tactics, so it must be something to do with player motivation or something like squad gelling, I think?

Also, I am finding that I can handle player interactions much better now but I still think the entire feature is far too crude to be in the game and completely defies logic and realism. The rest of the game looks about the same overall, when weighing up the plusses/minusses, so I think the big debate is whether it is worth buying FM11 just to get the data update. The jury is still out on that one, as far as I am concerned but I am pleased to see that many others are really enjoying the demo - good for them!

[Matt_no_7]

I've got to say I read these comments and wonder if some of you guys have downloaded another demo.

The player interaction is a little limited, sure. But it's far better than what was in place previously. And those of you encountering player revolts because of your discussions must be doing something wrong. I have similar outcomes as SSGTroyer with my players. I wonder how many of you are trying to be ruthless before actually building a relationship with your players?

Well here is how it pans out.

-Player comes to me wanting a chat, unhappy about the teams form.

-Given 2 options, either be bullish and say there is nothing wrong or ask them to give you a chance in so many words.

-Player either calls your deluded for thinking things are fine or decides he cannot work with you feeling you've disrespected him or demands to see changes in the teams form straight away thus leaving you with only the lines that claim they are being disrepectful which only angers them more, leaving them not wanting to work with you and from there it just snowballs as more get unhappy. Rince and repeat...

Maybe it is just me BUT others see an issue too and i think it comes to down the small amount of opening lines for said conversations that leaves it looking like it will only ever head one way.... the bad way. Don't get me wrong i enjoy the game and have enjoyed all the previous versions, always buying on release day and not really suffering any displeasure from the various release bugs but this is a forum, people have opinions and SI i'm sure will look into them.

I mean even if it is a bad game on release it will still come only 2nd behind F1 2010 which really is a farce lol

[Rega]

Just cannot see all that much difference, might just stick to the 10 version. And I've never done this before, I've always got the latest version.

I agree with you Chappers. I've gotten every version since CM2 but I'll leave this one a while. I'm not saying that the new one is a "bad" game but there isn't that much different to 10 and the new stuff, in my opinion, doesn't add that much to warrant me paying out my hard earned cash. Maybe after a patch or two I'll see.

[Sunlock]

Also, I am finding that I can handle player interactions much better now but I still think the entire feature is far too crude to be in the game and completely defies logic and realism. The rest of the game looks about the same overall, when weighing up the plusses/minusses

Should probably never have been in the game, it would take loads of resources to make dynamic.

It would help a lot though, if one was able to sort out the issues between both players, and managers, even the assistant gets the rough edge now and then. Now I haven't played the demo yet, working on that, so it is based on previously versions.

EDIT: However sometimes things just don't work out, thats fine, should just be options for the better.

A far more nagging issue is that even though it's obvious that they are far worse players than those playing, they still don't get why they don't play. Very few unsatisfied players ever make it back on the team, mainly be course they get angry. But I hope that is fixed in this upcoming one, I kinda doubt it though. ( a fix for that could be adjustable wages for backups. )

[jayahr]

The demo is taken from the code that will be in the final version. Therefore, any problems that's in the demo will be in the released game. It's not a case of "it's a demo, therefore it'll be rubbish and the full game will be great". If there's something in the demo that makes you angry, and you pay money for the full game, it'll still be there until around Christmas at least.

What narks me off is that, year after year, the community cries out to SI to hold back on the half-baked features for the next release and instead improve upon the previous release, and fix the bugs found after the final patch. Once that's done, then think about introducing new things. But they don't listen, and instead repeat the same behaviour every year. Problems that have been complained about after 10.3 haven't been fixed from what I've seen in the demo, and instead things have gone backwards, including the match engine. All for the sake of having dumbed-down, repetitive, mini-game conversations with player's and their agents. No thanks.

Unfortunately, as I've said in previous years is that SI take advantage of the gap between release date and Christmas to use the community as testers - they said themselves last year they couldn't get enough testers as applicants complained the pay was too low.

It's also the first time for me in 10 years that I'm not going to buy it, and probably won't be buying any future versions either because it's just the same thing every year. Everything's gone backwards and they're relying on us to make something we - by release date - paid money for, better. Of course, this is the free demo, but the point is we're a pretty loyal fanbase, some of whom put in pre-orders as soon as the release date's announced, hoping that this time SI will have listened and things will be better, and I feel like SI are taking advantage somewhat.

We shouldn't be used as guinea pigs to help them make money. I've Beta tested in the past, but if I were to do it again, I'd expect some sort of payment due to the amount of effort I've put into helping SI fix things - hours and hours isn't an exaggeration, and all so that I can get my paid product to work properly. The "payment" shouldn't be "there, your game's fixed" - I've just paid money for it AND spent hours finding bugs to make it playable, and you're treating it like I've got it all for free. It's insulting, really.

[/rant]

If really SI never got it right then pre-ordering every new version of the game blindly clearly makes the customer look more stupid than SI.

Everybody agrees that FM10 is the best yet, so SI can't be heading the completely wrong way. I agree, there have often been balancing issues with new features and the game has in most cases needed a patch or two to reach its full potential. But at least from SI we do get those and are not left alone as we are by others.

If you can't stand playing a game which you don't think is perfect yet, then why don't you just wait until the early Febraury patch before buying and continue enjoying FM10? Then you will most probably still pay less than 10 cents per hour played if you play as much as most of the people on here. Still a great deal.

But it's up to you anyway.

btw I for myself won't be buying FM11 as I'm having lots of fun with FM10 and see not enough reason to quit it, but I'm already looking forward a lot to FM12

[Kriss]

Well personally I hate the intereaction, just as I've always hated the press interaction and team talks but that's because they're so totally inadequate, if we have to have them they should be a huge piece of work with so many options that you rarely see the same thing twice.

The option is for somebody to develop an AI that can actually react spontaneously, not gonna happen in my lifetime though and it would probably take over the world if they managed it:D

Mind you if you think this interaction is bad try Civ V, you have two options there yes/no:mad:

As for the ME, it's never going to please everybody and given the nature of rl football you could claim it's totally effective if it never pleases anybody lol.

[Sunlock]

I just played a few matches with At.Madrid, and I must say the ME is awesome, however the last minute thing with bad teams scoring is indeed still present. Not a huge problem though, just needs to stall the game in the end, as one would against a far better team. The interaction regarding player problems actually looks kinda promising, though its rather premature so far to conclude. It might end up being really cool, and I agree the last edition was a step forward...had a few years off FM, but the love is returning.

More assistant manager setups for the interacting is all there is needed, for those of us, who only wants the metal.

EDIT: The assistant feedback feature, is very nice, and some good steps regarding training as well.

[englandmanager]

i wonder if people complain when fifa bring out the same version year after year, with minor changes and enough bugs to build an ant farm

[crouchaldinho]

Well personally I hate the intereaction, just as I've always hated the press interaction and team talks but that's because they're so totally inadequate, if we have to have them they should be a huge piece of work with so many options that you rarely see the same thing twice..

I've got to say, I'm not a big fan of this interaction stuff either. It's putting me off FM11 and this, along with the lack of other new features of interest for me personally, could well see me sticking with FM10 this year.

I'm a bit like a broken record, always talking about the imagination factor of this game, but it's so important to me and such a big reason for my addiction to the series. These press conferences and player interactions aren't adding anything to my experience in terms of my imagination and they're just making me a bit bored and frustrated really. That's honestly just how I feel.

[Sunlock]

i wonder if people complain when fifa bring out the same version year after year, with minor changes and enough bugs to build an ant farm

Last time I played that was in 97

[Federico]

I'm just bothered by the ME. I can stand everything of the game... press conference, players interactions, bubbles, moods... everything.

What i wouldn't really like to watch is players running away from ball, players missing easy goal on empty net from 6 yds (sometimes it looks like there is a "miss the easiest goal" contest..), crazy match stats, supergoalies (but mine of course), ununderstandable shots or ununderstandable non-shots.....

Everyone has is own opinion and that's fair. I just dislike the ME, no improves despite the many suggestions FML beta-testers keep posting on the main forum. There are issues not fixed yet in years. It's really bad, and slow, almost boring. Whatever your indications, players won't follow them. What do i set a tactic for? i don't know, probably im a bad manager right? i guess i am if i concede 1 goal on 1 shot on goal and i can't score any on 10 or more. I read something was already told about man mark and defenders movement, so i wont bother you furtherly.

Eventually i will keep playing FM08 or FM09.

I'm really disappointed by the last 2 version of the game. This year we won't eat sausages and beer together, SI.

[crouchaldinho]

This year we won't eat sausages and beer together, SI.

I'm up for some sausages and beer Federico if you're stuck for company.

[Guest]

People QQ to much now days. Makes me a sad panda.

[crouchaldinho]

I didn't understand anything you just said viiralx. :confused:

[Federico]

I'm up for some sausages and beer Federico if you're stuck for company.

you're welcome mate

[SCIAG]

I didn't understand anything you just said viiralx. :confused:

I think it's supposed to be a pair of crying eyes.

[Igorchete]

Last year many people said the game was unplayable however by 10.2 most of the serious problems were corrected and 10.3 was pretty enjoyable (even withstanding the media module)

That actually means that you pay for the game on 5-th November, but get a playable version in end of January!

Wow, that's genius!

[crouchaldinho]

I think it's supposed to be a pair of crying eyes.

Ah, right. And the panda?

[Kriss]

I've got to say, I'm not a big fan of this interaction stuff either. It's putting me off FM11 and this, along with the lack of other new features of interest for me personally, could well see me sticking with FM10 this year.

I'm a bit like a broken record, always talking about the imagination factor of this game, but it's so important to me and such a big reason for my addiction to the series. These press conferences and player interactions aren't adding anything to my experience in terms of my imagination and they're just making me a bit bored and frustrated really. That's honestly just how I feel.

There should be an option to completely disable them imo, I totally agree with your imagination factor stance.

[socceroonie]

I've got to say, I'm not a big fan of this interaction stuff either. It's putting me off FM11 and this, along with the lack of other new features of interest for me personally, could well see me sticking with FM10 this year.

I'm a bit like a broken record, always talking about the imagination factor of this game, but it's so important to me and such a big reason for my addiction to the series. These press conferences and player interactions aren't adding anything to my experience in terms of my imagination and they're just making me a bit bored and frustrated really. That's honestly just how I feel.

Agreed. This is a game with a great match engine and so many fun things about it-- why would I want to spend more time doing what is essentially a multiple choice quiz?

That said, here is how you could fix the conversations:

1. Lower the stakes of the conversations. Make it so depending on how the conversation with the player goes, the player gets slightly happier or slightly more annoyed with me, rather than ecstatic vs. instantly wanting to be transfer listed.

Right now, the stakes of talking to one of my players is so high, and the penalty for saying the wrong thing is so dire, I feel like I have to save before every conversation. Or better yet, never converse with anyone ever-- it's not worth the risk. I doubt this is what SI is going for.

2. If the players have different personalities, why do they all sound exactly the same? Why do they all have the same dialog? This would be a great opportunity to give the players some personality by giving them different dialog trees depending on what their in-game personalities are. Is the guy loyal? Make him sound loyal. Is he ambitious? Give him some dialog that sounds ambitious.

This would have the added benefit that the way the player talks would give you some hint as to how to approach him. "Aha, this guy sounds like a prima donna. I'll use my kid gloves."

Would this be a lot of work? I don't really think so. Just hire a guy to write more dialog. You wouldn't need unique dialog for everyone in the game. Just make 5 personality types or so, and write five different versions of every player-dialog line in the game. Totally a problem you can throw money at. Give Barney Ronay and Barry Glendenning a weekend and ten grand and your game is instantly better. Or some other writers, I don't know. But it's penny-wise and pound-foolish not to spend more money here for the first patch. You might make this feature something that sucks you into the game more, rather than pulling you out of it.

I am also playing Fallout: New Vegas right now, and it has lots of multiple choice-style dialog that's really fun and engaging. Why? Because they spent a ton more time and money writing said dialog. Which isn't really what FM is about, but if you're going to put conversations in a game, you have to live up to the standard of other games on the market or people are going to be disappointed.

3. FM games suffer, in my opinion, from a lack of feedback to the player. If a player's not playing well, there's a lot of reasons why that might be -- he's homesick, he needs to settle in, his morale is low, he's being used wrong tactically, he hates his contract, and so on -- and if you're not among the top 1% of FM players in the world, it's tough to figure out exactly what is going on. Occasionally, the assistant manager will come and warn you a player is unhappy about something, and that's great. But I was hoping the conversations could give us another way to find out what's happening in a player's head.

I wish I could say "You're not playing well, what's going on?" and have the player say, "I'm a little bothered because I haven't scored in a while, and the pressure from being in the press is really affecting my form." And then I could say, "carry on then," and I'd know a little more about what's going on in what can be a very complex game.

Point 3 is less of a big deal, and may or may not even be a good idea, but points 1 and 2 I think are pretty important.

[BungleFish]

I've got to say, I'm not a big fan of this interaction stuff either. It's putting me off FM11 and this, along with the lack of other new features of interest for me personally, could well see me sticking with FM10 this year.

I'm a bit like a broken record, always talking about the imagination factor of this game, but it's so important to me and such a big reason for my addiction to the series. These press conferences and player interactions aren't adding anything to my experience in terms of my imagination and they're just making me a bit bored and frustrated really. That's honestly just how I feel.

i totally agree with this, imho fm/cm has always been half about your imagination (probably why all my matches are played with just the commentary), for me fm is a feel good game (oh you just took brighton to the champions league final? amazing etc etc) but some of the latest features take away from the pleasure and just end up feeling like a never ending, boring chore (press conferences are my main bugbear here) this is probably the reason why cm00/01 has never been removed from my comp and still gets played alongside the newer games

oh and the panda thing is a south park reference as far as i know

[crouchaldinho]

Thanks for clearing that up BungleFish.

[Igorchete]

I've got to say, I'm not a big fan of this interaction stuff either. It's putting me off FM11 and this, along with the lack of other new features of interest for me personally, could well see me sticking with FM10 this year.

I'm a bit like a broken record, always talking about the imagination factor of this game, but it's so important to me and such a big reason for my addiction to the series. These press conferences and player interactions aren't adding anything to my experience in terms of my imagination and they're just making me a bit bored and frustrated really. That's honestly just how I feel.

I totally agree.

No matter how much we and SI wish to achieve realism in the series, we mustn't forget a very important factor, this game is about having fun!

Whether having fun for you means taking your local side to the greatest heights, or tinkering around with the editor to make some cool/fun competitions (like me), this player interaction doesn't add to the fun.

Yes, it's realistic if it's made correctly (and it's not at the moment), but we're not real managers, we'll never be (99% of us actually), and most of us don't have the time to make conversations with all our players, i personally play 2-3 hours a day, 4 at weekends, and i get annoyed if i don't pass a season in one day, with this player interactions, press conferences, it will take weeks to finish a season, and you'll spend most of your time doing those annoying questions all over and over and over again and again and again.

[Vic Taylor]

I don't think the features discussed should be taken out. Rather they should be improved to an acceptable level. If they were done right, then press conferences and interactions would be a great feature for the game. Imo it's not the actual features that are the problem, but the way they're implimented and their level of quality.

[Kain]

Personally, the current situation with talking to players feels a lot like the first 2D match engine did. Its clearly the way forward for the game, and within the next version or two, it could become so good that older games will just feel far too simplistic without it. For this current version though, it detracts enjoyment from the game for me, and is the main reason I'm giving this one a miss.

[Igorchete]

Personally, the current situation with talking to players feels a lot like the first 2D match engine did. Its clearly the way forward for the game, and within the next version or two, it could become so good that older games will just feel far too simplistic without it. For this current version though, it detracts enjoyment from the game for me, and is the main reason I'm giving this one a miss.

The 2D match engine is/was a key feature, and the time invested in making and improving it was really worth it, just like improving the 3D match engine is now.

But player interactions are not that needed, and no matter how much they improve it, it will surely become a very boring part of the game after a few seasons.

[Vic Taylor]

What I find amusing is that more player interaction was one of the most asked for features on these forums, and now everyone's saying it'll make the game boring, before the game's even been released. SI just can't get it right!

[HarryMills]

It's not the feature, for me anyway it's the way it's been implemented.

[Space_Buggy]

...fully agree with all these comments......I too for the first time am seriously thinking of changeing my mind and not buying the game. The game has definitely gone too 'deep' and I cant quite put my finger on what exactly I dont like about it (or maybe should I say not as keen).

I can remember in the early days thinking of my tactics/formation/new signings at work (and no I certainly was'nt a teenager). Maybe the game should be limited to a set number of years or something like that.

The other thing which bothers me is , just when the game is getting right after patching etc. I'm always thinking theres a new version coming out soon and then I can't be bothered with it. Maybe the game should come out every 2 years or something? After all even Fifa is getting monotonous and surely we all know that 'features' are held back for each year.

My two pence worth......

JT

[edgar555]

What I find amusing is that more player interaction was one of the most asked for features on these forums, and now everyone's saying it'll make the game boring, before the game's even been released. SI just can't get it right!

Good post Vic

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[JamboJen]

Personally, the current situation with talking to players feels a lot like the first 2D match engine did. Its clearly the way forward for the game, and within the next version or two, it could become so good that older games will just feel far too simplistic without it. For this current version though, it detracts enjoyment from the game for me, and is the main reason I'm giving this one a miss.

I agree with your first part, although I actually quite enjoy the player interaction.

There's no doubt the player interaction could be massively improved, but like the 2D and 3D MEs did, this has to start from somewhere and it's not going to be perfect straight away. It is definitely too heavily weighted towards confrontation at the moment and it can be frustrating but it is also rewarding when you can solve a player's problem with a quick chat and he immediately starts performing better.

From reading some of the comments it seems there are so many different ways people want to play the game. Someone earlier said they can play one season in a few hours and find the interactions and press conferences annoying because it slows them down. I spend most of my time here on the FM Stories subforum and there are folks there who take months to play a season. There are people who start a new game at Rangers/Celtic/Man Utd/Man City/Barca/Real and buy all the best players by doing a quick "player search". There are others who play by the LLM "rules" and therefore probably make the game a lot harder for themselves but for them it is more realistic.

I'm closer towards the LLM way of playing because I want to play the game as if I really am the manager. For me, that means talking to my players, turning up at all the pre-match press conferences and getting my scouts to find me the next superstar instead of searching for a player with "17 shooting". Yes, the PCs and conversations can be improved but I have confidence in SI that they will be.

Hopefully next year the "set-piece creator" will be just that and there are other various little things which I think can be adjusted to make things more realistic - but they can't all happen at once.

Because of the level of detail SI is going into, maybe they do need to start putting options in the preferences to "turn off conversations/press conferences" etc so that those who don't want to use them can ignore it in the same what that they have attribute masking etc.

The game has changed a hell of a lot since the days of CM and even since the first FM so SI won't keep everyone happy. Personally I'm pleased with the way things are going but I can understand why some people aren't.

I've not bought the game since FM08 mainly because I have a save I absolutely love on it and still have unfinished business. I'll almost certainly buy FM11 though, despite it's flaws, because the demo so far has given me a lot more enjoyment than it has frustration.

[Wakers]

Getting the Assistant to do them is 'turning off' the feature - they just need to do it properly so that the assistant can't annoy the whole team every week. Granted it doesn't happen very often, but when it does it can completely ruin the game.

[sheeshy]

I'm still not having any of these issues, and I am growing to love all of the new features.

What am I doing differently?

[edgar555]

I'm still not having any of these issues, and I am growing to love all of the new features.

What am I doing differently?

Having an open mind?

[paganizer]

This is something that puzzles me to be honest. Surely this game makes you guys quite a bit of money, can't you afford to just hire more staff?

Exactly what I'm thinking. The game has been released as almost unplayable or atleast in a very unsatisfying state for many years now. Change som schedules, hire more staff.. do something. Change is the key, when you keep failing at the same things.

Personally I kinda dislike your (neil brock) two posts. They kinda give me the impression that you forgot who made FM2011 the succes it is today.. all the loyal fans. Instead of listening to some very valid concerns/arguments from long time fans, you come up with excuses of long working hours and small team. That's just weak and unprofessional.

[edgar555]

Exactly what I'm thinking. The game has been released as almost unplayable or atleast in a very unsatisfying state for many years now. Change som schedules, hire more staff.. do something. Change is the key, when you keep failing at the same things.

Personally I kinda dislike your (neil brock) two posts. They kinda give me the impression that you forgot who made FM2011 the succes it is today.. all the loyal fans. Instead of listening to some very valid concerns/arguments from long time fans, you come up with excuses of long working hours and small team. That's just weak and unprofessional.

If you don't like it there's always CM. More to the point show me how 10.0 was unplayable. Thats right, you can't. Next!

[Äktsjon Männ]

Having an open mind?

Not noticing genuine issues with the game = having an open mind? How exactly do you work that out?

[Wakers]

10.0 was the one with horrific injuries wasn't it?

[Neil Brock]

Exactly what I'm thinking. The game has been released as almost unplayable or atleast in a very unsatisfying state for many years now. Change som schedules, hire more staff.. do something. Change is the key, when you keep failing at the same things.

Personally I kinda dislike your (neil brock) two posts. They kinda give me the impression that you forgot who made FM2011 the succes it is today.. all the loyal fans. Instead of listening to some very valid concerns/arguments from long time fans, you come up with excuses of long working hours and small team. That's just weak and unprofessional.

I said what I said to counteract some people saying "we released the game in a state because we know we can patch it" - I have absolutely no problem with people posting legitimate issues and concerns as we do look into them. Likewise for the second post we're looking into an issue to help people who shouldn't even actually be able to support the game! And have to completely disagree with anyone who says the game is 'almost unplayable' and has been for many years. Again we're more than happy to listen to constructive criticism about our game. We're aware it's almost impossible to make everybody happy, but we try to make a game as many people as possible will enjoy.

[dazbowski]

If you don't like it there's always CM. More to the point show me how 10.0 was unplayable. Thats right, you can't. Next!

What a pompus man you are, so because you don't agree it means you're right? 10.0 was poor, it was only the first day patch made it playable (to a point) and i'm one of the many who believe although the game shouldn't be perfect it should be playable from the box as lots of people don't know/use updates.

Your attitude is endemic of people who think the sun shines out of SI's bottom's, it doesn't. Just because they make the game we love doesn't mean the don't make huge mistakes. I sincerely believe unless some early issues in FM11 demo get sorted this could be pretty poor till the 2nd (3rd?) patch which would be unacceptable.

[Wakers]

While I don't think the demo has enough in it to make me want to buy FM11 immediately, it's certainly not as bad as previous demos (notice they don't have to release two different demos this time because the first effort was so crap). There are a fair few improvements that have been made that actually work, there are some that are iffy (player interaction), but no new feature seems to break the game within 2 weeks.

My criticism at the moment is that every new version seems to have the same recurring problems, as the OP said. Man marking, closing down, split defences, one on ones - issues with these always seem to be present in the first version of the new game, fixed or at least improved by the time patch number three is out, and then re-introduced sometime in the development of the new game.

Maybe there is something there that SI need to look at, from a procedural point of view when they are working on the ME, perhaps priorities are in the wrong place, or perhaps it's something as simple as working on different aspects of the ME in a different order.

Personally I'm not buying another FM until the regens and manager AI have been fixed, at least in such a way that your immersion in the game doesn't come crashing down like a ton of bricks when you realise that neither Ferguson or Wenger have bought any young players in the last 5 years, or that there are no regenerated goalkeepers that are at championship level, let alone premier league level. Obviously I can't be assured of that with a demo, so I need to hear from people who get into the long term games with the release day patch.

[crouchaldinho]

I've got to be honest, I felt that FM10 was absolutely playable out of the box Dazbowski. Much better than many previous versions in the series.

[dazbowski]

I've got to be honest, I felt that FM10 was absolutely playable out of the box Dazbowski. Much better than many previous versions in the series.

With the terrible injury/fitness issues? Or was that 09?

[Wakers]

With the terrible injury/fitness issues? Or was that 09?

I thought that was FM10 too, but it could easily have been 09.

[Theres only one GV!]

I have seen few bugs. I for once have avoided the bugs forum and feel the game is very good. I can't see anything major. I had one thing where it said I was praising myself. The game crashed once. Thats it. I don't see half the problems that have been mentioned. I have had a few sendings off but I am playing with "Get stuck in" So its to be expected. I haven't had many people missing open goals. I have had a couple of issues with players getting annoyed in Player interaction but that is what it was made for! Sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn't. If it was released as it is. I wouldn't be bothered, if its patched though I won't complain

[edgar555]

What a pompus man you are, so because you don't agree it means you're right? 10.0 was poor, it was only the first day patch made it playable (to a point) and i'm one of the many who believe although the game shouldn't be perfect it should be playable from the box as lots of people don't know/use updates.

Your attitude is endemic of people who think the sun shines out of SI's bottom's, it doesn't. Just because they make the game we love doesn't mean the don't make huge mistakes. I sincerely believe unless some early issues in FM11 demo get sorted this could be pretty poor till the 2nd (3rd?) patch which would be unacceptable.

All I hear is blah blah blah. Yet you still can't tell me what was wrong with 10.0 on release. Not surprised in the least.

As for the 'your attitude...' bit. Please. Take a look around. I criticise SI when justified and praise when justified.

[crouchaldinho]

With the terrible injury/fitness issues? Or was that 09?

Probably 09, which seemed to be unbalanced in the lower leagues.

As I said above, I found FM10 the best version to play out of the box since I can't even remember when!