FM2011 Demo - Same Problems Year After Year

[SSGTroyer]

I thought that was FM10 too, but it could easily have been 09.

Almost every version has had people complaining about the number of injuries. I have yet to experience any of it. Neither version was terribly unbalanced, but SI did make a slight tweak in the length of minor injuries in 10.1

[Vic Taylor]

Good post Vic

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

As they've always been. Someone'll always complain.

For the injury thing. I can safely say it wasn't 09, as I'm still playing that unpatched and there aren't any kind of injury bugs either way. In fact I've never noticed any bugs with it.

[SmurfDude]

re player interaction: I look at it this way; for years I've always been annoyed that I have no way of even trying to talk to an unhappy player, he was just unhappy and as a manager I had no control over this. Now we at least have a way of trying to change that. I don't particularly care what is said, or how repetitive those lines of text get - I'm more interested in the outcome and reaching a logical conclusion. I don't want to read paragraphs of in-depth dialogue, I just want to (try to) resolve the unhappiness issue with a few clicks of a button. I also believe it shouldn't be a concrete way of making a player happy, there of course should be times when you as a manager make things worse, it's all part of the dynamic ever changing world of football.

Now I've not tested it out, I'm just giving my opinion on what I think of the feature in theory. I know I'll like it no matter how mundane and uninteresting the text is, as long as it serves its intended purpose. I see it as infinitely more important than press conferences, which serve very little purpose other than to flesh out the role the media play, and they do need to be in depth.

[Wakers]

Almost every version has had people complaining about the number of injuries. I have yet to experience any of it. Neither version was terribly unbalanced, but SI did make a slight tweak in the length of minor injuries in 10.1

That was it. Every minor injury resulted in a player being out for two weeks, and people were getting 2 or 3 per game. That was my experience of it anyway.

[paganizer]

FM2010 had ctd bug at release. A pretty bad one too. I still have my game autosaving each week/matchday.

What annoys me the most is the ME, which doesn't seem to work decently until 6 months after release. And that's every year.

[Kain]

re player interaction: I look at it this way; for years I've always been annoyed that I have no way of even trying to talk to an unhappy player, he was just unhappy and as a manager I had no control over this. Now we at least have a way of trying to change that. I don't particularly care what is said, or how repetitive those lines of text get - I'm more interested in the outcome and reaching a logical conclusion. I don't want to read paragraphs of in-depth dialogue, I just want to (try to) resolve the unhappiness issue with a few clicks of a button. I also believe it shouldn't be a concrete way of making a player happy, there of course should be times when you as a manager make things worse, it's all part of the dynamic ever changing world of football.

Now I've not tested it out, I'm just giving my opinion on what I think of the feature in theory. I know I'll like it no matter how mundane and uninteresting the text is, as long as it serves its intended purpose. I see it as infinitely more important than press conferences, which serve very little purpose other than to flesh out the role the media play, and they do need to be in depth.

Completely agree with this, and its why I'm not critizing SI too much for it. Not being able to talk to players who are upset has to be one of the most complained about issues with the FM over the last few years.

[eddymunster]

10.0 was the one with horrific injuries wasn't it?

Ye, 09 was unplayable because you literally couldn't play it thanks to the on-line registry.

[Neil Brock]

Ye, 09 was unplayable because you literally couldn't play it thanks to the on-line registry.

To be fair that was due to a number of issues explained at the time - the game itself wasn't too bad when you could actually get into it!

[eddymunster]

To be fair that was due to a number of issues explained at the time - the game itself wasn't too bad when you could actually get into it!

Ye loved 09, hate steam forever.

[Pete S]

re player interaction: I look at it this way; for years I've always been annoyed that I have no way of even trying to talk to an unhappy player, he was just unhappy and as a manager I had no control over this. Now we at least have a way of trying to change that. I don't particularly care what is said, or how repetitive those lines of text get - I'm more interested in the outcome and reaching a logical conclusion. I don't want to read paragraphs of in-depth dialogue, I just want to (try to) resolve the unhappiness issue with a few clicks of a button. I also believe it shouldn't be a concrete way of making a player happy, there of course should be times when you as a manager make things worse, it's all part of the dynamic ever changing world of football.

Now I've not tested it out, I'm just giving my opinion on what I think of the feature in theory. I know I'll like it no matter how mundane and uninteresting the text is, as long as it serves its intended purpose. I see it as infinitely more important than press conferences, which serve very little purpose other than to flesh out the role the media play, and they do need to be in depth.

This is a very fair point well made here. As the OP of this thread, I have to say that I am beginning to come round to this opinion myself - I just wish it was better executed and that it was an option you could switch on or off at the beginning of the game, so that those who want it can use it and those that don't like it can forget about it.

The thing that particularly threw me initially was that my asst mgr recommended I talked to a whole load of players on day 1, who all became really upset when I did this, with all the conversations appearing to be directed to an inevitable, confrontational end. So the problem seemed to be very poor advice from the ass man, combined with a rather crude private chat feature - this made me feel cheated i.e. just an excuse to ensure that I started off with a really bad situation. As I have played the game for a few (in game) months and got some good results, the players seem to respect me more and react less extremely when I criticise them and, even if they do, I can often talk them round with another chat a few days later. This seems a bit more realistic, although poorly realised in this first attempt IMO. I only have one player who is still upset and refuses to talk to me but he is not in my plans anyway, so happy to let him fester in the reserves until I can offload him elsewhere.

So, overall, I think the new interaction has promise and can be realistic in some situations but I think it needed more polish before being put into the game, which still brings me back to the title of the thread and original argument.

[Pete S]

Good post Vic

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Agreed but there are also plenty of people who don't want it and I am sure many that did want it expected something a little better than this. This is why I support SI making player interaction and media handling etc an option at the start of the game, if possible. Glad some people seem to be enjoying the game, though. Even I am beginning to warm to it!

[Alekos]

Initial impressions are that this is one of the worst FMs ever released. What gets me is that we get the same problems each year and SI never seems to learn (or care?). For instance:

- New features are poorly designed and tested, resulting in a significant detrimental impact on enjoyment and playability. This year we have the utterly dreadful Player Interaction feature, which can destroy the entire squad in about 5 mins (see my other post on this for more details).

- Poor match engine, riddled with issues. My experience so far has seen countless players from my team mising open goals in the 6 yard box, far too many sendings off and the AI constantly getting much better results than they deserve, largely through persistently scoring straight after I score or in the last seconds of a game, despite them playing very badly for the rest of the match.

Hopefully, it will grow on me but this is the 1st time I have ever considered not buying the game on its release.

Disagree with everything you wrote....There are other issues that need to be fixed....I have no problem scoring goals, 1 total send off in 15 games in a few words none of the above has happened to me...

Lots of people because they can't score, win etc. blame the company as a result the developers lose time from focusing on the REAL issues....

[Poil Brun]

Just do like I do, and buy all your games three months after their release. Why buy a game at an higher price, unpatched (and sometimes unplayable, or unenjoyable) and with no community mods? Most people in forums seem to believe that you must have a game on its release, but there are may advantages in being patient!

[Pete S]

Disagree with everything you wrote....There are other issues that need to be fixed....I have no problem scoring goals, 1 total send off in 15 games in a few words none of the above has happened to me...

Lots of people because they can't score, win etc. blame the company as a result the developers lose time from focusing on the REAL issues....

I am pleased you are enjoying the demo. I am geting more into it now myself but still think the player interaction is poorly realised and not ready for release. Also, for the record, I only lost 2 league games up to the end of the 6 months on the demo so my concerns have nothing to do with losing or being bad at the game. The sendings off and predicatable opposition goals also disappeared after about 10 games - must be to do with squad gelling or morale, as I haven't changed tactics. I am just not overly impressed with this version of the game but I can understand why others are enjoying it and good luck to them.

[sheeshy]

Having an open mind?

I didn't want to say that, so thanks

It's never going to please everyone, but if you stop looking for perfection, maybe you'll change your tone slightly.

[edgar555]

Spot on dazbowsk! Im sick of edgar555 slating people for having an opinion! The guy is so far up SI's arses its untrue!

And you are who exactly? If you want to get personal then PM me. As I said to dazbowski, if you look at my posts you'll find that I am capable of praise/criticism/ambivalence towards SI in the right places. Unlike most people in the GD section who are generally just haters here for a whinge. Just because I can take a balanced view of things I'm pompous and an arse kisser? Right.

So once more remind who the hell you are to judge me?

EDIT: So the post I've quoted has been removed. By jmeast or by a mod? Would be pleased if it was a mod, hopefully they'll start dealing with the muppet show that is GD.

[Dan Madeley]

So edgar555, would you not agree that there are some really concerning problems with the game considering that it has been tested by the SI team and released as a demo for the public to play (which is the opportunity for everyone to play the game and decide whether they want to purchase it or not) - considering that the game is due for a full release in all major game stores in just over a week?

I look forward to hearing your response.

[edgar555]

So edgar555, would you not agree that there are some really concerning problems with the game considering that it has been tested by the SI team and released as a demo for the public to play (which is the opportunity for everyone to play the game and decide whether they want to purchase it or not) - considering that the game is due for a full release in all major game stores in just over a week?

I look forward to hearing your response.

I personally have not come across any game breakers. Of course I would agree that there are some issues that need resolving. However I think a lot of them are just a case of people needing to get a grip on reality, as sheeshy says a couple of posts up, if you stop looking for perfection you might find what is a rather decent game.

I think conversations need work but I also believe that SI are well aware of this and are working on it. I do however think that the progression of this will be over a couple of iterations of the game rather than in patches for 11.

ME wise it is very good and a fine upgrade from 10.3, again there are issues but if you are following Paul's ME thread you will see that they are well on their way to addressing the minor tweaks needed to get it even better.

Skin? I've hated all default skins since 07 and this is no different. Its not just the whiteness, I maybe am just old skool and liked the tree style. The dark skin will be available in a patch for all those that are forced into wearing sunglasses to play and as we all know the skinners will do their thing for the likes of me who hate what we get out of the box.

I think the transfer model is better but still a long way from perfect. I've mentioned this and really hope its looked at but I feel SI think its as good as it'll get this time out, they've covered themselves with Miles' blog about transfers and I still don't think that cuts it.

I hate that my home page now only has 2 customisable boxes.

But like I say all of these are continually being worked on.

When it works, this community is great, those that provide constructive feedback help SI to develop a game that we all play to death, as do the SI guys. However my main issue is people who come on here once a year at demo/release time and post rubbish like 'typical, same old SI, shoddy game, rubbish, grrr' and then walk away without expanding on their views or offering anything constructive.

I hope you find my answer agreeable.

[Internomad]

What? No.

(i've only played the demo for about 5 minutes),

You've just got to laugh at this.

[Internomad]

Exactly what I'm thinking. The game has been released as almost unplayable or atleast in a very unsatisfying state for many years now.

Why do people post this kind of rubbish? Do they realise what 'unplayable' means?

[Wakers]

You've just got to laugh at this.

Because taking things out of context is funny!

My point was made in reply to someone who said the demo is there for people to give feedback to SI, which is clearly wrong, regardless of how long I had spent playing the demo at the time.

In that very same post I had said that I had yet to form an opinion on the demo.

Trying to make others look bad only hurts yourself, young one.

[Wakers]

Why do people post this kind of rubbish? Do they realise what 'unplayable' means?

well the previous two releases were borderline unplayable out of the box. One had an injury/condition problem that ruined it for many, many people, and FM09 didn't work because SI went with a very foolish DRM policy.

[eddymunster]

'Unplayable' only applies to FM09 (and that was only for about 6 hours). However FM10 was released in an 'unsatisfactory state' as stated somewhere above, but was by no means unplayable.

After 09 was released, I was still unaware of patching, or even that these forums existed, but I played 9.0 until FM10. I have since read many, many threads saying this bug or that bug made 9.0 'unplayable'. I am proof that that is simply not the case. Unplayable is banded around far too easily on these forums.

But in fairness nothing should be sold in an unsatisfactory state, I can however understand how things slip through the net on a product as complex as this.

[roykela]

well the previous two releases were borderline unplayable out of the box. One had an injury/condition problem that ruined it for many, many people, and FM09 didn't work because SI went with a very foolish DRM policy.

And a bunch of crashes (FM10), which literally made it unplayable for a while.

[crouchaldinho]

I honestly thought FM10 was the most playable version out of the box since I can remember!

People keep talking about injuries/condition issues but that was a problem with FM09 on patch 9.2 or 9.3 (can't remember which). I specifically remember because I started a thread detailing some of the amazing injuries I was getting in my game.

FM10 certainly didn't have this problem on release. In fact, I believe they increased the condition and injury frequency on 10.2 because it was too low on 10.0.