These forums

[rorschach2u]

the "wishlist" proves my point exactly, i just found it a few minutes ago by sheer luck...

after spending a couple of hours yesterday searching through editor threads, "searching "suggestions" & "questions" i found nothing.

there's nothing on the front page that would point to it & nothing in GD.

i stopped looking at the top of the page having read something about the mac patch & then seeing the message for those with technical issues so i switched off.

thanks for the responses.

[Nomis07]

Suggestions for future versions

Individual ideas on one subject should be posted in their own topic. Please name your topics sensibly and give an indication of what it is about. If you want to list ideas then please use this Wishlist topic

Other than that at the top of this page :confused:

[glamdring]

Too easy Summat ain't worth doing if it ain't a challenge. If it ain't a challenge in itself then tha 'as to make it into one in some way

[Glenn Wakeford]

the "wishlist" proves me piont exactly, i just found it a few minutes ago by sheer luck...

after spending a couple of hours yesterday searching through editor threads, "searching "suggestions" & "questions" i found nothing.

there's nothing on the front page that would point to it & nothing in GD.

If you looked at the top of the browser window you will see this:

Suggestions for future versions

Individual ideas on one subject should be posted in their own topic. Please name your topics sensibly and give an indication of what it is about. If you want to list ideas then please use this Wishlist topic

It includes a link to the wishlist thread.

[rorschach2u]

If you looked at the top of the browser window you will see this:

Suggestions for future versions

Individual ideas on one subject should be posted in their own topic. Please name your topics sensibly and give an indication of what it is about. If you want to list ideas then please use this Wishlist topic

It includes a link to the wishlist thread.

it not showing up when you search "suggestions" is pretty stupid.

i found it by luck... i didn't expect something like that to come after info on technical issues.

the fact that it doesn't show up when you do a search for "suggestions" just proves my point about the problems i was having finding the right threads.

[Glenn Wakeford]

it not showing up when you search "suggestions" is pretty stupid.

i found it by luck... i didn't expect something like that to come after info on technical issues.

It's not at the top of the search result page, but it's at the top of the GQ forum page, and at the top of every thread page. It's not hard to miss. In order to get to that search page you had to have been at a page that had that information already on it.

[rorschach2u]

It's not at the top of the search result page, but it's at the top of the GQ forum page, and at the top of every thread page. It's not hard to miss. In order to get to that search page you had to have been at a page that had that information already on it.

ikt follows technical information. i wasn't looking for that so i read a little & moved on.

it says "suggestions for future versions"

if it doesn't show up in a search for "suggestions" that's just stupid. no 2 ways about it.

yeah it's there i found it earlier & was surprised (& glad) to have found it.

i was just unlucky & that's fine. i'm not complaining about it being there but it not showing up in a search for "suggestions" is, as i said, stupid.

it should be the top result that's all

that example just shows what i mean by these forums being confusing

[Mike7077]

I would say it's exactly the type of post we're trying to stamp out.

You might want to make that clear to the likes of Bigwig.

[Glenn Wakeford]

It's not all technical information: it's a noticeboard. If you didn't read the noticeboard properly you can't go round saying the forums are confusing. This information is placed at the top because it is the most commonly requested information. The information you needed is at the top of the screen since we (as Westerners) read left-> right, top-> bottom, and the heading is in bold. It can't be made much clearer without posting it in size 20 font.

[bill b]

I’m not quite sure why OTF always gets pinpointed at being an unwelcome place as the unwritten rules are pretty much the same as in the other forums.

If you go straight into OTF without a feel for the place and start posting threads about random rubbish then of course you’re likely to get flamed because it’s not the done thing. You might think that’s being hostile or unwelcome but it’s no different to the other forums.

If someone bought the game and heard there’s an upcoming patch so registers and posts in GQ asking when this patch will be out they’ll likely be subjected to abuse before the thread gets closed and they haven’t a clue what they did wrong.

Similarly if someone likes to play in the lower leagues and sees the LLM forum then they might naturally think they can start posting there about their experiences and I doubt they’d receive a warm welcome either.

If someone thinks there’s a bug so have a rant in the bugs forum they’ll more than likely be told off for not going through the proper channels and similarly if someone wants a good tactic to play with Hull City so goes into T&TF asking for a good tactic to keep hull safe then they’ll probably get abuse.

OTF is no different that if you want to post there you get to know what it’s like first. Someone mentioned it being like a saloon but you wouldn’t burst into a saloon waving and shouting to get attention when you would be better accepted to just ease yourself in and get a feel for the place.

On a side note while OTF is classed as somewhere people form GQ might not want to go you may want to ask yourself why GQ isn’t somewhere OTF users want to go. It’s a two way street and can’t all be blamed at one userbase.

Excellent post. Nail hit on the head imo

[rorschach2u]

It's not all technical information: it's a noticeboard. If you didn't read the noticeboard properly you can't go round saying the forums are confusing. This information is placed at the top because it is the most commonly requested information. The information you needed is at the top of the screen since we (as Westerners) read left-> right, top-> bottom, and the heading is in bold. It can't be made much clearer without posting it in size 20 font.

like i keep saying, i don't have a problem with the wishlist being up there, i just put it down to bad luck on my part. although it's completely understandable to me how it would be easy to miss as all the attention is drawn to the technical stuff so i just figured it was all that, having been put in the frame of mind, from all the talk going on about problems with installing, activation and all that from the front page of the forums.

i'll say it again, that's not a problem, but the wishlist not showing up first when you search for "suggestions" is just plain stupid, no 2 ways about it.

i'm not complaining here or trying to make an issue. i found what i was looking for a while ago & just commented on the absurdity of the "wishlist" search example...

i would've LIKED to have gotten some better feedback in the beginning from other users but that is also not an issue, now i'm enjoying my game & looking forward to getting involved with the forums. they are complex & that can be a good thing, once you get a feel for them.

[GunnerReece]

I like these forums

[Neji]

I like these forums

Welcome

rorschach2u, you bring a good point up. Unfortunately, I think the search software is a bit tough to change, maybe something that one of the vB guys have a hack for or something?

[canvey!!]

I've started 5 threads in OTF. None of which have been flamed.

The concerned girlfriend thread is probably a bad example as it was mainly drivel. I like to think that OTF regulars are just less tolerant of drivel than GQers.

Oh, and, btw, I seem to have become the foremost authority in the French GQ section.

[Neji]

I don't buy the 'drivel' arguement. Take the night thread for example.

It's ok OTF though. Not as bad as I thought.

[Wlv]

I think the main problem with the links being up the top of the screen is when you load the forums you automatically look at the main bulk of text, even though there are up the top and some of it in upper-case red writing, it's still difficult to spot. Perhaps changing the lay-out slightly will help this, i.e is it possible to spread out an important threads topic over two lines (assuming each thread topic takes one line), meaning the text is literally huge

[CaptainPlanet]

It can't be made much clearer without posting it in size 20 font.

Incidently the top of the FMO section has big words in massive font saying READ STUFF FIRST.

Maybe it's time to try that here.

[Mike7077]

I hereby declare my withdrawal from the GD vs OTF debate. It's tired me out today and I'm bored of it.

[ahmufcwafc]

Any news on the social group? On a side note, I've noticed that all the dead social groups were removed today. So only the CSE group is left now.

[Mike7077]

Just had a really helpful response in OTF in a thread I think could be very interesting. Guess it's not all bad..

[Pawel_lfc]

less chatter here, more fixy fixy, yeah?

god knows it needs it.

[TheOriginalJez]

less chatter here, more fixy fixy, yeah?

god knows it needs it.

Sure, come on fellas we've got our orders - lets take over SI Towers and see what we can do! haha

[Mike7077]

less chatter here, more fixy fixy, yeah?

god knows it needs it.

You must be playing a different game to me.

[super_imps]

Oh dear god, if you people are this scared by a fairly docile internet forum, what the hell do you make of the real world?

Grow a pair, the lot of you.

[iamweesel]

I think the argument between the GQ v OTF just sums up the real world

[Nomis07]

Oh dear god, if you people are this scared by a fairly docile internet forum, what the hell do you make of the real world?

Grow a pair, the lot of you.

It's cretinous comments like that, that put people off OTF. No-one has claimed to be scared of OTF, if anything they just don't like the way some of the OTF members get on, it doesn't put me off using OTF, but that doesn't mean I like the place.

Some OTF members really know how to sell the forum to people who don't use it as much

[GillsMan]

Oh dear god, if you people are this scared by a fairly docile internet forum, what the hell do you make of the real world?

Grow a pair, the lot of you.

Yeah thanks mate. I've been sticking up for OTF and then you wade in here and tell people to grow a pair. See people like Bigwig have come in here and extolled the virtues of OTF in a sensible reasonable manner. It's a shame you're seemingly incapable of doing the same.

[djwilko6]

Yeah thanks mate. I've been sticking up for OTF and then you wade in here and tell people to grow a pair. See people like Bigwig have come in here and extolled the virtues of OTF in a sensible reasonable manner. It's a shame you're seemingly incapable of doing the same.

Well his location seems to be pretty accurate to himself...

[Mike7077]

Oh dear god, if you people are this scared by a fairly docile internet forum, what the hell do you make of the real world?

Grow a pair, the lot of you.

Grow a brain cell. That would be a start. There are some great people in OTF, as I've recently discovered. But you prove that many of us were right about the cretinous cabal who dominate it.

We're not scared of it! Nobody is going to beat us up or steal our money. But guess what? We are mature enough to want internet forums to be welcoming places where views can be freely expressed and moronic behaviour clamped down upon. I wager you stopped developing mentally somewhere around the age of 14.

[CaptainPlanet]

Oh dear god, if you people are this scared by a fairly docile internet forum, what the hell do you make of the real world?

Grow a pair, the lot of you.

*facepalm*

[super_imps]

You see, this is why people don't come into GQ. People come on and make valid points and get shouted down and abused just because they're not part of the so called "in crowd". It's not a very nice place to be and I think this needs sorting.

[CaptainPlanet]

"Grow a pair" is not a valid point.

[GillsMan]

You see, this is why people don't come into GQ. People come on and make valid points and get shouted down and abused just because they're not part of the so called "in crowd". It's not a very nice place to be and I think this needs sorting.

If you think your first post constituted a "valid point" then you need to think again son. Seriously, stop trolling. If you have anything sensible to say, say it. If not, please don't post. Thanks.

[iamweesel]

You see, this is why people don't come into GQ. People come on and make valid points and get shouted down and abused just because they're not part of the so called "in crowd". It's not a very nice place to be and I think this needs sorting.

I've never seen anyone getting "abused" over here

Where have ya

And the part which I've bolded

I always think that this place has constituted healthy discussion

[djwilko6]

You see, this is why people don't come into GQ. People come on and make valid points and get shouted down and abused just because they're not part of the so called "in crowd". It's not a very nice place to be and I think this needs sorting.

Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself, telling people to "grow a pair" will get you...less favourable responses.

[Mike7077]

super-imps is trolling, guys. The last point he made is exactly what we've been saying about OTF. He thinks he's being clever.

[iamweesel]

super-imps is trolling, guys. The last point he made is exactly what we've been saying about OTF. He thinks he's being clever.

Isnt that what all OTF'ers think???

[Mike7077]

Isnt that what all OTF'ers think???

I've been over there a little bit lately. There's a contingent who definitely think that way, but it's not as bad as I thought it was.

[iamweesel]

I've been over there a little bit lately. There's a contingent who definitely think that way, but it's not as bad as I thought it was.

Maybe

but i've faced stick before,and I didnt like it

[super_imps]

super-imps is trolling, guys. The last point he made is exactly what we've been saying about OTF. He thinks he's being clever.

Well noticed.

[bflaff]

There is value added to OTF if you can make people laugh, or if you are able to offer useful info to other users. If you can do that, most good posters don't really care if you came from GQ, or have a low post count, or have any other supposed fault.

People do get bored on OTF, though, which is probably why they're on it in the first place. So boorish comments are sort of unavoidable, even on innocuous posts, and even from people that are normally qg.

[chopper99]

Wow, I go on holiday for a week and 5 new pages get filled in this thread, mostly about OTF Vs GQ!

I'm disappointed I missed the thread that was moved to OTF, I think that would have been a very interesting 'experiment' to be involved in.

A while back in this thread I was one of the great detractors of OTF, but i think that like GD it's improving quite a bit. Established members are getting infractions for abuse now, which is something that was much less likely to happen a few months ago.

However (of course there's a 'however' involved), there are still some members over there who treat it like their forum that belongs to them and should not be invaded by stupid outsiders. This is only a minority of people, but it's enough people to still give the place a bad rep. As soon as these people accept the fact that the forum doesn't belong to them and that anyone is welcome to post in their on an equal footing, the better the place will be.

Like with any forum I like to get a feel for the place and a grasp of the rules and general attitudes before posting anywhere (unfortunately far too many people, both in GD and OTF, just jump in and post anything that pops into their head) and when I did this in OTF I've generally had a decent response. I've posted a fair few questions in there that have been answered by some very helpful OTF regulars. Unfortunatley there are still a few in there that feel it is their right to troll and put people down, particularly if they feel thay are more intelligent that the person they're talking to. They'll then go onto say that intelligent threads get pushed down the page to often, but this is partly because only people who have vast knowledge of the subject matter of the intelligent threads are accepted into them, leaving anyone who doesn't have encyclopedic knowledge of that subject left out or driven out.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that OTF is improving, and the wit and dark humour that make the place what it is need to stay. But some members need to be more open to more people posting in thread, even if those people might not have as much knowledge on a particular subject as you do. It might even extend thye discussion and lead to you educating someone about something you're interested in.

Keep the humour, lose the elitism.

[Glenn Wakeford]

Keep the humour, lose the elitism.

I think this is what everyone wants. The OTFers have mainly been complaining in this thread they don't want the humour of the place taken away. The GQers don't either, they just want it to be a more 'approachable' place to post.

[glamdring]

I stay away from the OTF forum for the simple reason that if I want to discuss all manner of random things a community who have in common only that they all play a football management computer game is not the place I'd choose to do it! I like to discuss aspects of the game and of football in general with some of the people in such a community, but to discuss totally off-topic things I prefer to do it in a smaller and more discerning group...in much the same way as I wouldn't chose to stand on the steps of Monument in the centre of Newcastle like a religious preacher and start discussing some subject with the world at large. Some people like that kind of discussion, open to all and sundry, but it's not for me.

I'd rather just be able to slip in the odd bit of frivalous banter in topics posted in GQ with people I've got to know on this forum, so long as it doesn't dissolve into a whole conversation taking the thread totally off-topic. It's the same reason why I tend to have discussions in the FMS Community thread because it's a smaller group and I know (to a decent level) most of the regular posters.

[Nomis07]

so long as it doesn't dissolve into a whole conversation taking the thread totally off-topic.

I.E. as long as no-one mentions Panathinaikos or Anorthosis Famagusta

[super_imps]

A while back in this thread I was one of the great detractors of OTF, but i think that like GD it's improving quite a bit.

I'd hazard a guess that you're one of the few who thinks that...

[Nomis07]

I'd hazard a guess that you're one of the few who thinks that...

I don't think so, there are a few GD regualrs in here who have sung OTF's praises. Both forums have their problems, I find GD particularly crap atm and will probably be sticking to OTF (and this thread) for the next few weeks.

[Mike7077]

Yeah, the GD forum is seriously lacking in threads of any great value at the moment.

[CaptainPlanet]

The inability to use the search function seems very apparant today.

[Nomis07]

It stinks Mike, last year was bad for complaints, but the odd good thread popped up and seemed to stay popular for a while, but not this year.

As for Lee Evans, he is the poor mans Norman Wisdom, that's doing Wisdom a disservice though, because I find him amausing from time to time.