These forums

[Dayle Wood]

Originally posted by Crazy Paving:

has anyone else noted the Irony of the above posts?

A thread to discuss the problems of the Forums and people come on being abusive and brainless. You couldn't make it up.

Which posts on this page are you talking about?

[Crazy Paving]

The ones from How much wood would a..etc.

Although having re-read them have I just fallen foul of my not getting the sarcasm.

Shall i just be quiet???

[Jimbokav1971]

I don't think he was being sarcastic at all.

[Jimbokav1971]

There is just no point using GQ at all at the moment.

The first page is full of useless carp threads and some really good threads have demoted off the firt page never to be seen again.

I have the game.

I have the game too!

When will I get the game.

What will you do when you get the game.

Should I play the game and wait for the patch?

I want to continue with FM07 but don't know what to do.

Have I mentioned I 've got the game.

How come others have got the game and I haven't?

Have you really got the game?

Who will you be?

Who won't you be?

FFS !

[Guest]

You forgot a few.

I've just bought a new PC & want to show off thread.

I've had the same PC since CM01/02 can I run all the leagues?

How Many leagues can I run? (just in case you didn't see me showwing off the first time)

[chopper99]

Also, it doesn't help that the rules for this forum are no longer stickied at the top.

I started a thread about this a couple of days ago but it's been pushed down to about page 3 by now.

The forum rules really need to stand out and people really need to start reading them. After reading and participating in this thread I've been trying my best to be nice to everyone but the number of repeated, useless threads is getting annoying now.

[Lermon]

Big rules section at the top of the forum, and deleting threads/replies that cross that.

If OFT is too disrputive then dividing into two of football and non football related may help divide the community up if that is a problem.

[FrazT]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

There is just no point using GQ at all at the moment.

The first page is full of useless carp threads and some really good threads have demoted off the firt page never to be seen again.

I have the game.

I have the game too!

When will I get the game.

What will you do when you get the game.

Should I play the game and wait for the patch?

I want to continue with FM07 but don't know what to do.

Have I mentioned I 've got the game.

How come others have got the game and I haven't?

Have you really got the game?

Who will you be?

Who won't you be?

FFS !

Jimbo- beleieve me mate, this is a good time to have a break from the forums because, as you rightly said above, the standard of threads is apalling and will stretch the patience ( and civility ) of most regular users.

[Ter]

There is always the initial "release" excitement and influx of new users with something to say. Isn't really an awful lot we can do about that.

[Kriss]

This has been the most civilised release period yet on these forums.

No doubt this thread influenced that.

If there was a way to compel "search before you post" it would be ideal, but that isn't going to happen so we need to be a bit patient till it calms down.

[JustinCase88]

I'm very impressed by the mods on these forums, they are consistent.

On other game forums the mods delete all critical posts as trolling,spamming or off topic. But leave all the off topic praise posts. They allow 100's of praise threads, but no critical threads.

This forum is moderated fairly, fair modding is getting rarer and rarer on official game forums.

Very refreshing to be here.

[Patje.lol]

Originally posted by FrazT:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

There is just no point using GQ at all at the moment.

The first page is full of useless carp threads and some really good threads have demoted off the firt page never to be seen again.

I have the game.

I have the game too!

When will I get the game.

What will you do when you get the game.

Should I play the game and wait for the patch?

I want to continue with FM07 but don't know what to do.

Have I mentioned I 've got the game.

How come others have got the game and I haven't?

Have you really got the game?

Who will you be?

Who won't you be?

FFS !

Jimbo- beleieve me mate, this is a good time to have a break from the forums because, as you rightly said above, the standard of threads is apalling and will stretch the patience ( and civility ) of most regular users. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. And don't forget all those topics where people moan about the game, after testing it for 5 minutes or 2 matches.

[dafuge]

Any chance of the records thread being stickied this year?

[Ter]

I think we've got more than enough stickies at the moment. Once everything calms down I suppose we could put a link to it in the forum header or something.

[dafuge]

Nice one, I didn't mean immediately, there's plenty of other things that have priority at the moment.

[dafuge]

Taken from another thread:

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

I was going to make some comments about the personal insults being thrown around on this thread. But the new forum rules that are a coming will take care of them in time. Until then, I can only apologise for some of the idiots on these forums to those of you who aren't idiots.

Intriguing

[Michael F]

was about to post that, you beat me too it Dafuge, should be interesting.

[Miles Jacobson]

It can't come soon enough in my opinion, but there's still a lot to sort out unfortunately.

[gavnoble]

Looking forward to seeing what the forthcoming changes will mean to this place.

[James07?]

that'll be the final nail in the Daaaaave coffin then

[James07?]

btw, do these new forum rules apply to OTF? If so, wouldn't it be fair to put this thread in their too? Or is it part of the plan to keep people who don't bother posting in GQ in the dark?

[dafuge]

The LLM forum is a bit strange

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by dafuge:

The LLM forum is a bit strange

I could explain but........

Have a look for "Brody is a poof" in the stickied history in LLM.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:

The LLM forum is a bit strange

I could explain but........

Have a look for "Brody is a poof" in the stickied history in LLM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried searching and just found masses of spam

[Ter]

btw, do these new forum rules apply to OTF? If so, wouldn't it be fair to put this thread in their too? Or is it part of the plan to keep people who don't bother posting in GQ in the dark?

OTF will most certainly be part of our discussions

[James07?]

closing it or charging for it?

[Vane]

One of the things I've noticed is that SIG gets way more stick on its forums than BGS does on the CM forums. On the CM forums, most of the knockers have finally left. But on FM they're alive and well and ready to tell SIG what a shoddy job they've made of FM 2008, which is of course nonsense.

[Dokko]

Admin.

Seriously couldn't get my old account to work, tried everything, followed the correct steps, but account just wouldn't log back in.

Old user name is: Stevedox, wouldn't mind it back, could you have a look into it once the rush is over.

Thanks.

[Kriss]

Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:

The LLM forum is a bit strange

I could explain but........

Have a look for "Brody is a poof" in the stickied history in LLM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried searching and just found masses of spam </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope I'm forgiven for this bit of trivia, just to satisfy Dafuge's curiosity.

Originally posted by iajafer:

Back in the long distant past, when LLM was in its infancy, a Phoenix risen from the ashes of CMC, a fresh faced Scottish bloke was nearing his 1000th post.

Back then there were many wonderful posters who have long since vanished, only to reappear for fleeting moments and then disappear back to the depths of CMC.

One of those posters was a scrumpy-guzzling t­osspot called Brody, an inhabitant of Somerset and a Wurzel if there ever was one.

The comment was made that the handsome Scottish bloke was about to make this kilo-post...the first ever toted up solely in LLM...and questions were asked what would appear in it to mark the occasion.

Brody was seen to post "He'll probably call me a poof" as this was a common occurence in the halcyon days.

The day arrived, the post was made, and almost as a casual throwaway remark it was Post Scripted "Oh, and by the way...Brody. You're a poof".

And so, from that day until this, LLM tradition decrees that the multiple of 1000 posts will be celebrated with the somewhat corrupted but nonetheless well meant phrase..."Brody's a poof"

[dafuge]

Cheers Kriss, that clears it up.

I still find it a little odd how that forum seems to have a completely different outlook on spam/postboosting compared to the others. Then again, I only look in there every now and again, maybe it's not always like that.

[Kriss]

Originally posted by dafuge:

Cheers Kriss, that clears it up.

I still find it a little odd how that forum seems to have a completely different outlook on spam/postboosting compared to the others. Then again, I only look in there every now and again, maybe it's not always like that.

Our mods are strict when they need to be, the members are even stricter but not unreasonably.

I think it's fair to say we laugh at ourselves more than others.

[DaveC]

Yes, a lot of people ask the same questions, and yes it is frustrating for all you old hands, but the answer is simply not to reply to it .

Or to be constructive. I have played since CM2 or there abouts but don't post often as you are usually slacked off or insulted. some gays are great, Frankie7 springs to mind and always helps but so many other people just jump down the throats of mant posters. Ignore if you can't be positive, help if you can ?

Common Manners ??

[DaveC]

Obviously that should have been some GUYS not GAYS !!!

[dafuge]

Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:

Cheers Kriss, that clears it up.

I still find it a little odd how that forum seems to have a completely different outlook on spam/postboosting compared to the others. Then again, I only look in there every now and again, maybe it's not always like that.

Our mods are strict when they need to be, the members are even stricter but not unreasonably.

I think it's fair to say we laugh at ourselves more than others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They seem to be strict on enforcing the LLM rules, but not the general forum rules though. The mods seem to encourage postboosting, whereas on other forums it is a yellow card offence.

Saying that, the LLM forum seems to have far better mod coverage than this forum at times, which is a little strange.

[Vane]

Originally posted by DaveC:

Obviously that should have been some GUYS not GAYS !!!

Ah, too late. You've outed him now!

[Kriss]

They seem to be strict on enforcing the LLM rules, but not the general forum rules though. The mods seem to encourage postboosting, whereas on other forums it is a yellow card offence.

Potboosting is a running joke in LLM, the mods will happily knock off 250 karma points if they think you're actually doing it to increase your post count.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They seem to be strict on enforcing the LLM rules, but not the general forum rules though. The mods seem to encourage postboosting, whereas on other forums it is a yellow card offence.

Potboosting is a running joke in LLM, the mods will happily knock off 250 karma points if they think you're actually doing it to increase your post count. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess there's an awful lot of in-jokes in that forum then, to me it just looks like a load of spam.

[Kriss]

Spam mmmmmmm

[Jimbokav1971]

I'm approaching 1/3 of the way towards ignoring Brody completely .

[blythgeordie]

i agree that certain things have been getting a bit out of hand.while not wishing to put too much criticism on the moderators i think certain things (bullying) for example has been allowed to continue without been acted upon.why cant the (decent) people who contribute to the forums whether on a regular or casual basis police this themswlves.one way would be to put an icon in a posted message so that it gets reported to the mods more quickly and can get stopped before it gets too bad.one yellow card gets you a weeks ban two yellow cards gets you a months ban or something like that. sorry for rambling on a bit.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by blythgeordie:

one way would be to put an icon in a posted message so that it gets reported to the mods more quickly and can get stopped before it gets too bad

This exists already, it is the little triangle with an exclamation mark in it in the top right hand corner when you post.

[chrisbamb]

I'll give forth my 2 cents here.

I've not really been part of the Forums for a period of time due to life commitments. However, I have from time to time come back for a quick fix and see what's happening. I generally spent most of my time (when I was a regular poster) in the Challenge/Sign Up Thread once it was introduced.

I generally went back to GQ every now and then but just found that the section was in general disarray!! Pointless, meaningless threads. People just wailing on other people and not much being done about it. I reported one post many months ago I found highly offensive and even mentioned the fact within the thread and nothing happened.

Even in the Challenge/Sign up section (not very well modded) I found myself getting p*&^%d off with the amount of drivel and off topic stuff that was spoken there. Again this seemed to go unpunished, probably due to the amount (or lack of) Mods available to police it.

Other Forums are a lot less tolerant and I think in order to keep a good well balanced Forum you guys from SI really NEED to start making a stance and making examples of people in order to get the message across that you won't tolerate any more BS on the site. Until that, you'll have to put up with the mindless, pointless, drivel spouting threads and the bullying/harassing/racist posts that have been happening for quite some time.

I think it's good that you seem to finally making a stand and saying that's it, enough is enough and I commend you on this course of action. However, the only way to fix it is to get rid of the prats that make it that way and let the genuine people get on with it.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

[dafuge]

I'm not sure if you've been in there recently, but the challenge/sign up/holiday forum isn't suffering from as much of the drivel as it used to, possibly due to the exit of a few individuals.

There still isn't a moderator dedicated to the forum, but it sounds like there might be one soon.

[blythgeordie]

sorry dafuge i didnt make myself very clear on that.what i meant was another icon for the more offensive (bullying) type of posts.cheers

[Antonin]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

...the forums seem to have been changing a lot over the last 18 months, and it's got to the point where I don't think they're very nice anymore.

...What they aren't a place for is to sling around personal insults, not listening to other people or destructive criticism.

Well, I've been coming to this forum since 2001, and it has ALWAYS been this way.

I rarely post here because it's impossible to get help on how to become less frustrated as a FM/WWSM player.

It's impossible to offer constructive criticism without being shouted down.

It's impossible to say you don't like some aspect of the game without getting insulted and shouted down.

It's impossible to suggest possible future options (like a "never get fired" button at the start of the game) without getting insulted and shouted down.

If you say the game is too hard, you get a firestorm of insults and "it's yer tactics, m8! You're just a crap manager!"

No matter how reasoned and polite and detailed your comments are, you are going to get insulted and shouted down.

Last week, there was a thread asking for "first impressions of the FM08 demo." Some guy said his first impression was that he did not like it, and somebody else replied that he should go away then and stop posting on this forum. This, again, was in a thread asking for first impressions.

My solution would be for SI to stop allowing such behavior. This will require them to ban, at least temporarily, some people who are their loudest cheerleaders.

But I would like to remind SI that those of us who offer suggestions and even criticism love the game as much as those "others" do, and would like to see it become even better, with enough options and depth and "realism" to please as many people as possible.

[chopper99]

Originally posted by Antonin:

It's impossible to offer constructive criticism without being shouted down.

It's impossible to say you don't like some aspect of the game without getting insulted and shouted down.

It's impossible to suggest possible future options (like a "never get fired" button at the start of the game) without getting insulted and shouted down.

If you say the game is too hard, you get a firestorm of insults and "it's yer tactics, m8! You're just a crap manager!"

No matter how reasoned and polite and detailed your comments are, you are going to get insulted and shouted down.

Last week, there was a thread asking for "first impressions of the FM08 demo." Some guy said his first impression was that he did not like it, and somebody else replied that he should go away then and stop posting on this forum. This, again, was in a thread asking for first impressions.

My solution would be for SI to stop allowing such behavior. This will require them to ban, at least temporarily, some people who are their loudest cheerleaders.

I certainly don't think the part I've highlighted in bold is true. Constructive critisism certainly doesn;t get shouted down in my experience.

There are some people who make some excellent points about the game and how it can be improved, and it's because of these people that parts of the game do improve.

The trouble is that their constructive comments get lost in wave after wave of non-constructive whinge threads. And it's these people who seem to be the worst, when you disagree with them and try to put your point across as to why you disagree they are the ones who seem to act like children and can't accept any other point of view. And from there the thread goes down-hill.

I think something should be added as part of the forum rules (which still aren't stickied at the top of this forum by the way) that instructs people on how to offer constructive critisism of the game. I for one do have a problem with some parts of the game but at the same time I'm fed up with the number of people just posting 'this game's crap' without offering any comments on how they think it should be improved.

[chopper99]

Going on from what I've just said, it's threads like this that I think really annoy people.

[leftback in the changing room]

Originally posted by Antonin:

A well thought out post deserves a well thought out response. And I hope UBBcode tags survive the 'post now' button (oh for a 'Preview Post' option...)

I rarely post here because it's impossible to get help on how to become less frustrated as a FM/WWSM player.

You'd see, I'd disagree straight away with this comment. It is not impossible to get help. In particular - without even suggesting the Tactics... forum - the postings of people like Amaroq have been a goldmine of information and help for even absolute beginners to football/soccer, never mind the FM series.

I intermittently post on here because there is very little worth reading. Better to wait for a month or so, after the game and patches have settled down and avoiding the knee-kerk reactions, when the big guns will have been putting some thought into the future of FMxx and start to debate well thought out suggestions for improvements.

There is help readily available. You need to know where to look and how to ask for it. Which brings me on to...

It's impossible to offer constructive criticism without being shouted down.

It's impossible to say you don't like some aspect of the game without getting insulted and shouted down.

I'd concede these points to a degree, although I'd disagree strongly with impossible. Many threads here do not come under the premise of 'constructive criticism' - they are out and out abuse. And often, the new features suggested are stream of consciousness ideas that are poorly thought out and not very well argued.

Nobody on here will consider that Dave C's excellent treatises on scouting coaching and youth development were anything other than carefully considered, well written and well received. And even if Dave can slip into, erm, quite aggressive prose at times, these factors were debated at length and in good humour.

Dafuge's "Legendary Manager" suggestion is another fine example of the GQ forum at it's best. Experienced players making sensible suggestions of additions and changes to the game.

It's impossible to suggest possible future options (like a "never get fired" button at the start of the game) without getting insulted and shouted down.

Could you expand on that idea? Bear in mind that compromise and debate is a two way street. The very thought of a "never get fired" button is anathema to LLM'ers, hardcore strategists and even some casual players who like the impression that 'the job is always on the line if things go wrong'. How could you argue them round to your point of view? A simple one line post saying "I think I should be able to choose to never get fired" or "My salary is useless - I want to but cars, houses and players with it" or "Why is there no 3D engine?" does not further debate.

If you say the game is too hard, you get a firestorm of insults and "it's yer tactics, m8! You're just a <snipped to avoid possible cardage> manager!"

Hmmm. I can think of several recent examples - the most pertinent and depressing being the infamous "I want to play like how I think Arsenal play, but not only do they not play like that but I'm going to ignore any advice given to me" life-sapping thread(s) that demonstrate the very WORST of GQ, from both sides.

For example - the classic "Uber 4-2-4" formation the AI uses when it is losing and wants to win. This has gained status it does not deserve because people don't make the necessary changes to their tactics. It's very simple (or at least it was in FM07) - the player inevitably leaves his full backs forward run tactics on "mixed" or "always". Thought through logically assuming a 4-4-2 formation - you attack and your full backs break forward. The AI, however, has left two wide men level (or just behind) the forwards. If the AI wins the ball back, he IMMEDIATELY has 4 attackers against your 2 remaining defenders. With those odds, is it any suprise the CPU will score so many goals in a short space of time?

It's quite simple. If you are winning ALL successfull managers IRL will make changes to their team. And they won't wait for the opposition to change first. Sun Tzu got that right. This isn't a Catenaccio thing.

In conclusion, I present the story of one angry poster demanding to know why he was letting so many late goals in. Several posters persisted with him, making enquiries about his tactics, players etc. After SEVERAL threads and many pages of text, he stated that he didn't change his tactic because he preferred to play PES on a console whilst the game was taking place. As Richard Littlejohn is wont to say, "You couldn't make it up".

No matter how reasoned and polite and detailed your comments are, you are going to get insulted and shouted down.

Well I'd hope that this reply and chopper99's below are testament to the opposite. Yes there is a problem with unnecessary abuse, but it cuts both ways.

Last week, there was a thread asking for "first impressions of the FM08 demo." Some guy said his first impression was that he did not like it, and somebody else replied that he should go away then and stop posting on this forum. This, again, was in a thread asking for first impressions.

Well that's wrong and shouldn't happen. Equally as wrong are all the helpful, polite posts being shouted down or abused because they don't agree with the OP. An accusation levelled at Dayle Wood being an all-time low on here.

If I was a first time visitor to this forum, having never played the game before, I would come away with the following impressions

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>I would never return

<LI>The game was fatally flawed, or awful, or both

It's almost impossible to praise the game without being dubbed a "Fanboy SI backside licker who is blind to the games miriad flaws" for the first few months after release. And there's something about "OMFG did SI even test this" threads that depreses the heck out of me - so what it does to the the SI staff I have no idea.

My solution would be for SI to stop allowing such behavior. This will require them to ban, at least temporarily, some people who are their loudest cheerleaders.

Strong moderation is vital for this forum. There aren't enough moderators - GQ would require 10, around the clock. And 'cheerleader' (which I feel to be as derogatory as "Fanboy" and other casually thrown about labels) or no, unnecessary abuse must not be tolerated.

But I would like to remind SI that those of us who offer suggestions and even criticism love the game as much as those "others" do, and would like to see it become even better, with enough options and depth and "realism" to please as many people as possible.

Indeed. I can't improve that summary so I won't.

[FrazT]

Well said.

It would be nice if sometime soon, perhaps after the release of the patch, Miles or SI would give us some feedback on the hundreds of mostly useful comments and what they are intending to do/alter with the forums. They started the debate and it would be good if they finished it as well.

[Guest]

I used to frequent these boards all the time (as GillsMan - I lost my login details when SI changed the log in process).

I stopped coming for the same reason as the SI guys - I found that too many people were too willing to be abusive. One thing I've found, especially among the prominent members, is that some people seem to try to be witty and put other users down.

I remember one post when I posted a suggestion that it might be fun to add "anti-cheat" measures into the game (e.g. if you do the old trick of taking over another team to buy their players on the cheap), the media speculation about the dodgy transfers could make your position untenable. Despite suggestion that this feature be optional and despite saying there was nothing wrong with cheating, I got absolutely flamed by all sorts of people for daring to make this suggestions - there were very few constructive comments.

Indicative of these forums, regrettably.