possible to have over 60%+ possession every game?

I'm struggling to do it as Bayern Munich.

I use Control + Flexible and for team instructions I have low tempo, shorter passing, retain possession, work ball into box but in my last game (against Shakhtar in the UCL), even though I won the game 1-0 (via a penalty), they had 57% possession while I only had 43% AT HOME! WTF! This sort of thing would NEVER happen in real life. In fact, all season long (around 11 games so far), my highest possession percentage is 61% against a second division team in the domestic cup.

What instructions am I missing?

Correct, it wouldn't happen in real life. But then in real life they wouldn't be using your tactic .

Try posting your full tactical details and I'm sure someone will be able help.

Don't use Control.

There seems to be some oddity going on at this point in time where the AI finds too many breaking occasions after winning possession in Control mentality. This results in players pumping the ball forward, disregarding more sensible passing options around them. No way to build up play in a, well, controlled fashion like that, sadly. While the general speed of transitioning feels fine, the frequency is way off.

That said, if you want to play in Control, make sure to reduce playmaking roles as far as possible. Every "more risky passes" will ruin your play in the big picture. Don't overdo your attacking roles either, "support wherever you can" is better suited for a patient approach.

I don't understand how possession works in this game.

A number of facts about my set up which I think lend itself to possession football: I am Juventus, a very good team who most others wouldn't try to outplay; I am, in keeping with conventional wisdom, using a cautious mentality (standard) so as to not rush things; I have modified this to play shorter passing at a lower tempo; I am using a 4-3-3 shape so I have three players in the most important part of the pitch for possession - midfield. Despite this my possession stats are very unpredictable. I will go from 60-ish percent against Lazio to 50 percent against weaker teams like Palermo.

Weirdly, I have found 4-4-2 to be an effective possession system. When I come up against a 4-4-2 this is when I actually have the least possession (given my set-up ensures a spare man in midfield all the time I fail to see why this is the case); and conversely when I line up with my counter-attacking 4-4-2 I have been able to have the majority of possession in games such as away to Roma (incidentally playing three in midfield).

It makes very little sense to me.

Usually the more defensive mentalities are better suited for possession based tactics.

Attacking mentalities means taking risks, risk taking is anti-possession football.

Just beat Olympic something 7-2 in the Euro Super Cup, so what does it matter if I had sub 50%. Too little possion and it's time for a tactics change, to much and you want to change tactics too.

BTW: Passing someone to death seem to have been phased out as a good strategy with the changes to the ME in 15 and even more so in 16.

Edit: Woops, sure it's possible to have 60-70%, but you're lucky if you score goals, you going to be winning 1-0 games most of the time and that means it's really easy to be loosing instead.

Game against Malaga as Barcelona, they scored two goals, none of my players dropped a single .1 in score, they just got lucky goals. My tactics was way to much possession and I ended up passing the ball around and never scoring goals. Barca has good players, so I got away with it for my first season, but now it's clear to me FM16 hate possession and I've adjusted my tactics to have more risks and the start of the second season is silly high scoring matches so far.

Don't use Control.

There seems to be some oddity going on at this point in time where the AI finds too many breaking occasions after winning possession in Control mentality. This results in players pumping the ball forward, disregarding more sensible passing options around them. No way to build up play in a, well, controlled fashion like that, sadly. While the general speed of transitioning feels fine, the frequency is way off.

That said, if you want to play in Control, make sure to reduce playmaking roles as far as possible. Every "more risky passes" will ruin your play in the big picture. Don't overdo your attacking roles either, "support wherever you can" is better suited for a patient approach.

Not noticed this to be honest. I used a control almost exclusively for an entire season in conference north and averaged 58-65% possession stats. I also used several attack duties, and had no trouble building play up patiently. There is a bit of undesirable directness at times, but with the right roles/duties, and TI you can achieve it.

Its all about Balance, i am using Control and i have good stats to prove it can be done, Yeah i have those matches where am not controlling the game but it's the AI countering me so i counter them. And am scoring some good chances yeah i have games where its 1-0 but a wins a win.

I use standard mentality with short passing and low tempo as PSG and while I'll have a game here ant there where I'll dominate possession (60ish %) there also be a lot of games, especially against bottom feeders in the league away where I'll have like 35% possession which is baffling. I mean, I'll win the game but still it's crazy for a team like Bastia to be able to have 60% against PSG team. I also use more closing down with higher line so I'm not sure how the players of Bastia and similar teams are able to dominate on the ball that much against Pastore,Verrati,Di Maria etc.. I think something's off in the ME. Anyway, I've stopped trying to have possession, I'm 8th in the league with 50% average but I am also winning regularly so..all is good.

Hopefully this will be adressed in the patch.

I use standard mentality with short passing and low tempo as PSG and while I'll have a game here ant there where I'll dominate possession (60ish %) there also be a lot of games, especially against bottom feeders in the league away where I'll have like 35% possession which is baffling. I mean, I'll win the game but still it's crazy for a team like Bastia to be able to have 60% against PSG team. I also use more closing down with higher line so I'm not sure how the players of Bastia and similar teams are able to dominate on the ball that much against Pastore,Verrati,Di Maria etc.. I think something's off in the ME. Anyway, I've stopped trying to have possession, I'm 8th in the league with 50% average but I am also winning regularly so..all is good.

Hopefully this will be adressed in the patch.

Having a good team with decent players doesn't guarantee you possession - it really is all down to how you set them up. The same goes for the OP who is playing as Bayern.

Think about it for a moment - the AI uses the same ME as you do. If the AI can set up Bastia to get 60% possession against your PSG, there is no reason why you can't set up PSG to also dominate possession. So how is it an issue in the ME?

No need to wait for a patch to update the ME. If you want more possession, change your tactic .

Yeah possible of course. I`m using 4-2-3-1 Counter mentality with short passing and low tempo as Dortmund. You have to try my formation. If you wanna try my tactic here ! http://dosya.co/n7gc85gfyn8d/4-2-3-1_Kontra_38D8CB1F-B8C0-495E-BBAB-3010222F6F06.fmf.html

You`ll see.

The underlying issue is that if you have a good team and you want possession (for whatever reason), then you will likely face teams using a Mentality in the Defensive to Counter range; they will sit deep and play low tempo, low risk football, and because pressing in the game isn't hugely oppressive, they by default will rack up plenty of time on the ball.

Having a good team with decent players doesn't guarantee you possession - it really is all down to how you set them up. The same goes for the OP who is playing as Bayern.

Think about it for a moment - the AI uses the same ME as you do. If the AI can set up Bastia to get 60% possession against your PSG, there is no reason why you can't set up PSG to also dominate possession. So how is it an issue in the ME?

No need to wait for a patch to update the ME. If you want more possession, change your tactic .

Please. Even if I put retain possession, combined with low tempo and short passing, it doesn't give me possession. I have 5 players in midfield. I press hard. But somehow Bastia's guys are like Barcelona in keeping the ball. I don't care, I'll win the game 9 times out of 10 but to me, sorry, thats just unrealistic and I'm sure will be adressed.

I am playing a structured - counter tactic with play out of defence and work ball into box and get between 55-60% possession most games and doing well. my worst games when the opposition defends results in still getting a low 50% possession.

Please. Even if I put retain possession, combined with low tempo and short passing, it doesn't give me possession. I have 5 players in midfield. I press hard. But somehow Bastia's guys are like Barcelona in keeping the ball. I don't care, I'll win the game 9 times out of 10 but to me, sorry, thats just unrealistic and I'm sure will be adressed.

It is an "issue" that exists since FM14. Possession is hard to achieve, I find it unrealistic too. 55-60% is generally quite high in FM terms. I also have problems with accepting that fact though

I made a tactic with leeds that has 65-70% every game. Its not the best tactic in terms of results but possesion is good. Happy to post if anyone wants it?

I made a tactic with leeds that has 65-70% every game. Its not the best tactic in terms of results but possesion is good. Happy to post if anyone wants it?

It's a bold statement

Post it, because if it is true, it might allow people to see what sort of things need to be considered if they want to increase their possession levels.

I am afraid that the possession bug returned and is here to stay...Every single year except the last one we had the "possession" issue...

No matter what team you have even the best in the world you can't get possession more than 60% which of course is unreal and is really annoying for people like me who like to play possession football...

In FM 2015 I was playing with Panathinaikos a 4-2-3-1 Attacking and not only I was winning pretty easily but my possession would not drop below 65%...This is the answer to people saying that only defensive strategies produce high % of possession..

Check Bayern Barcelona etc... They play attacking football and they conquer the possession thing...So unless a patch comes out it is IMPOSIBLE to play possession football...

You cant have 20 shots on target versus 0 from your opponent and your possession is 48%...Totally unrealistic...

Don't know if there is a bug, but I am getting frustrated seeing cross-field hollywood balls being flung around, particularly by wing backs, or anyone creeping along the box. Usually they get intercepted, or the pass somehow makes its way through 16 bodies, and I can find no reason for these passes. They go against instructions, there are players available for more sensible passes. My first thought is it must be down to the 'pass into space' instruction... Hmp.

Alekos:

With Manchester United I averaged 62% over the course of a season.

- 4231

- Control

- Fluid

- Short Passing

- Low Tempo

- High block (as in, high defensive line)

Yes, the tactic probably results in fewer goals than super-tactics that regularly get you 120+ in the league. And you get caught on the break with depressing regularity. But it works.

Remember to set goalie to 'roll out' to CBs.

Alekos, the ME changes between version of the game, and indeed between the three updates we get each year too; you can't compare to 2015, especially now that teams can counter over aggresive play. Also, I'm not sure the Greek league has the strength in depth to be a true measure anyway. If you'd tried that approach in Italy or Spain, it would possibly not have the same effect.

Alekos, the ME changes between version of the game, and indeed between the three updates we get each year too; you can't compare to 2015, especially now that teams can counter over aggresive play. Also, I'm not sure the Greek league has the strength in depth to be a true measure anyway. If you'd tried that approach in Italy or Spain, it would possibly not have the same effect.

while effective counter attacks are a welcome addition, I will still argue that they need to be toned down or at least the efficiency of them needs to be toned down. Right now, any team can counter you with brilliant counter attacking play like they are Fergusons last CL winning team. Even the shiity teams are able to play phenomenal counter attacks, but in reality, how many times will you see a super effective counter attack beeing made against a top club who is playing bottom feeders and tehnically inferior opposition? Not that often, but in this ME you'll see it almost every game if you try high def. line.

while effective counter attacks are a welcome addition, I will still argue that they need to be toned down or at least the efficiency of them needs to be toned down. Right now, any team can counter you with brilliant counter attacking play like they are Fergusons last CL winning team. Even the shiity teams are able to play phenomenal counter attacks, but in reality, how many times will you see a super effective counter attack beeing made against a top club who is playing bottom feeders and tehnically inferior opposition? Not that often, but in this ME you'll see it almost every game if you try high def. line.

I don't see it in every game. If you do though then surely it could be down to how you play? Just because you see something happening all the time doesn't mean it's an issue that is wide spread or needs to be tuned down based on that evidence. I've seen your systems you've posted and it's no surprise you get countered time and time again, you want to be aggressive in your approach yet at the same time you expect not to be countered constant. You can't have it both ways.

Playing a high line wouldn't trigger a counter on it's own only if a team over commits men going forward. I have a feeling you could be confusing a counter attack with through/direct/long balls in behind of a high line. Both different things.

There's something wrong about it, I don't know whether is the ME or the names given to some tactic stuff that are confusing.

I think it is mental that in order to keep possession you had better to choose an standard or counter mentality instead of the control one. What about my defensive line? What about my high pressing?

I am sure most of the people don't give a **** about keeping the ball (as long as they win matches). However, It´s the way I like to play. Playing possesion football would make me get poor scorelines? then I think ME is not realistic at all.

Edit: Plus possession football is not just important to attack it allows me to defend better because when you play good possession football your team is going forward together and if they lose the ball they can get it back quicky. I think one of the reason pressing is not working 100%.

There's something wrong about it, I don't know whether is the ME or the names given to some tactic stuff that are confusing.

I think it is mental that in order to keep possession you had better to choose an standard or counter mentality instead of the control one. What about my defensive line? What about my high pressing?

I am sure most of the people don't give a **** about keeping the ball (as long as they win matches). However, It´s the way I like to play. Playing possesion football would make me get poor scorelines? then I think ME is not realistic at all.

I use control and keep high possession percentages game in and game out. Sorry to repeat the old line here, but it is tactical, as it is clearly not impossible if I and other can do it without having to use standard or counter.

Alekos, the ME changes between version of the game, and indeed between the three updates we get each year too; you can't compare to 2015, especially now that teams can counter over aggresive play. Also, I'm not sure the Greek league has the strength in depth to be a true measure anyway. If you'd tried that approach in Italy or Spain, it would possibly not have the same effect.

Well you are right that the ME has been updated since FM2015 last patch but what I am trying to say is different...I dominate every game in Greek league(which of course cannot compete with most european)but my possession is pretty low..I don't have problem winning as I said but I might have 20 shots versus 0 and the possession is only 48% for me....In FM 2015 when you had so many chances your possession was very high as it should be!

I also read somewhere in here from a mod that as the game it is you cannot create a possession tactic...

You can also change tempo to much lower to achieve a greater deal of possession but it is very blunt in attack as it is so I would imagine this would only make it worse.

It is an "issue" that exists since FM14. Possession is hard to achieve, I find it unrealistic too. 55-60% is generally quite high in FM terms. I also have problems with accepting that fact though

That's untrue, until previously you could pass yourself (or the opposition) to death. You could employ it as a genuine time-wasting tactics, in particular against lesser opposition (less individual quality plus often no real urgency/risk to win the ball back tactically). Only recently installed the 2016, I immediately notice differences too. Not sure if it's partly an upgrade to AI decisions (previously if you're a decent team, the AI would very very readily just sit back for prolonged spells of a match, sometimes even when going behind on the score table). Haven't looked at the details. But if you can't really much dominate Stoke at home when they're like down to 10 men and you're Tottenham, then that looks disctinctively differnt to before.

I picked up that there was a bug, but the number of passes are majorly weird too, with Tottenham having less than 400, and Stoke more than 500. I'm well aware that more aggressive mentalities means more urge to go forward, and that it is easier to play keep-ball if players actually stay deep and / or you have outlets deep, that's why this immediately sticks out even after my first actual brief playing session. Here's to you FM 2015 (also notice the number of passes). If you insisted on it, this worked against good teams too: http://i.imgur.com/6eq2Ua6.jpg . With AI opponents it's always been the case that they tend to pick wrong mentalities, i.e. Bayern are always heavy favourites, so AI Guardiola goes attack, plus plenty of attack duties all over the shop (too many players looking to make forward runs a plenty and compressing final thirds rather than staying deeper), which is part of the reason why such teams never dominated as in real football, Barca too (though that was off-set somewhat by the underdogs just dropping off so readily, see paragraph #1). Haven't actually looked at patterns of play much yet though.

In general as for the EPL, the numbers seem overall fully comparable though (check your FM 2016 league stats in the team stat tab). On FM 2016, City and United sit at the top with 56% and 54% each, which is reasonably high-ish for teams managed by AI. It's also fully comparable to actually real-life stats. http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/5826/Stages/12496/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2015-2016

FM 2015

If SI have taken out the tendency of players to look for backwards and lateral options in less forward pushing mentalities rather than playing forward in general, that would be a bad choice in my opinion. Play was fairly forward pushing beforehand already, in particular in terms of how ready the backs cleared their lines and how the ball was rarely played back to them to re-build. However the weird number of passes underdogs down to ten seem to be able to collect seems to be pointing to something else. Maybe they don't sit back as readily as before too. Playing against Reading with Arsenal now, which would have been an instant domination in 2015 or before. 50/50 game. Wow. Up next, the mighty Hong Nam.

This somewhat reminds me of Beta/Early FM 2013, where the issue was closing down. The patterns of play, even between amateurs and professionals, was like this, regardless of tactics: Team A wins the ball, team B retreats. Team B wins the ball, Team A retreats. Doesn't look like that here though. It seems the AI does what I on occasion did in earlier iterations. Simply passing the ball around endlessly to waste time. They tried in previous versions too, but in particular lesser opposition wasn't able to just keep the ball like that.

Well you are right that the ME has been updated since FM2015 last patch but what I am trying to say is different...I dominate every game in Greek league(which of course cannot compete with most european)but my possession is pretty low..I don't have problem winning as I said but I might have 20 shots versus 0 and the possession is only 48% for me....In FM 2015 when you had so many chances your possession was very high as it should be!

I also read somewhere in here from a mod that as the game it is you cannot create a possession tactic...

I don't really see the conection between shots and possession.

Possession is calculated differently in real life than it is in FM. In FM it is calculated easily by time your players have the ball. In real life it is calculated like this:

In high-level soccer matches, time of possession is tabulated through an automated calculation that is based directly on the number of passes each team executes over the course of one game. Each pass is calculated and plugged directly into this equation. The total number of passes are then divided by the total number of passes in the game to get a percentage for the total.

So you can have 200 more passes than the other team but still less possession in FM.

I have noticed a situation where the AI goes down to ten men and their possession increases actually increases as they play more defensively. I find it bizarre that more cautious = more possession. Obviously this is true to an extent - but only to an extent. In real life playing defensively to me suggests ceding possession and territory.

I have noticed a situation where the AI goes down to ten men and their possession increases actually increases as they play more defensively. I find it bizarre that more cautious = more possession. Obviously this is true to an extent - but only to an extent. In real life playing defensively to me suggests ceding possession and territory.

Well no, it depends on the style of defending, plus just ceding possession (hoofing it clear) means just inviting more pressure. It's partly balancing and partly a style of defending thing. I've taken a look and it seems that even the weakest of teams appear to be able to waste time and recycle too easily, whilst when you win the ball back even on a moderately aggressive mentality such as counter or standard it's naturally eventually pushing forward in whatever tempo and passing style you wish. So the ball moves into the attacking third eventually, move is intercepted, time wasting underdog picks it up and passes it around unchallenged. I like winding down the remainder of a clock by playing keep-ball in deep areas myself, and this definitely needs to be part of the deal, but it appears too easy even for the lowliest of opponents now. It is the lowliest of opponents that employ it from minute 1.

Alekos:

With Manchester United I averaged 62% over the course of a season.

- 4231

- Control

- Fluid

- Short Passing

- Low Tempo

- High block (as in, high defensive line)

Yes, the tactic probably results in fewer goals than super-tactics that regularly get you 120+ in the league. And you get caught on the break with depressing regularity. But it works.

Remember to set goalie to 'roll out' to CBs.

How well you doing on your save mate? looking to create a new tactic and was looking at a control tactic for away games but tempted to use it for home games too, how differently do you setup away from home? Do you play with more expressive? Just looks like because of the low tempo it might take you a while to create chances, work ball into box too?

@Svenc - your stats look ok, but here are stats from my FM15 save.

http://i.xomf.com/nlfdm.jpg

http://i.xomf.com/lpdnv.jpg

http://i.xomf.com/szjhr.jpg

http://i.xomf.com/xzjvz.jpg

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/108/Tournaments/5/Seasons/5970/Stages/12770/TeamStatistics/Italy-Serie-A-2015-2016

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/81/Tournaments/3/Seasons/5870/Stages/12559/TeamStatistics/Germany-Bundesliga-2015-2016

Not even Barca and Bayern have 60+%. The difference is that you could achieve high possession rates, but AI teams didn't quite manage to do the same. Not even the most dominant ones (Real being UCL winner in 2015 and 2016, Barcelona in 2017, Chelsea 2018). Real-life stats look significantly different in Germany and Italy.

I don't really see the conection between shots and possession.

I think Svenc with thoses pictures said it all....

@Svenc - your stats look ok, but here are stats from my FM15 save.

http://i.xomf.com/nlfdm.jpg

http://i.xomf.com/lpdnv.jpg

http://i.xomf.com/szjhr.jpg

http://i.xomf.com/xzjvz.jpg

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/108/Tournaments/5/Seasons/5970/Stages/12770/TeamStatistics/Italy-Serie-A-2015-2016

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/81/Tournaments/3/Seasons/5870/Stages/12559/TeamStatistics/Germany-Bundesliga-2015-2016

Not even Barca and Bayern have 60+%. The difference is that you could achieve high possession rates, but AI teams didn't quite manage to do the same. Not even the most dominant ones (Real being UCL winner in 2015 and 2016, Barcelona in 2017, Chelsea 2018). Real-life stats look significantly different in Germany and Italy.

Bayern in real life has 68% possession, Barcelona 61%, PSG 63% ....Small teams in every country have the lowest % of possession because they just can't hold the ball and they just hoof the ball clear..In FM2016 small teams play defensively have the most possession or at least equal with yours which is unreal...This is due to attacking and better teams do not press as much as they should be and leave the ball to their opponent to do their passing game...

same issue..i have %55 ball most in my home..i cant get ball possession even %50 away.i really didnt like ME fm 2016..

Bayern in real life has 68% possession, Barcelona 61%, PSG 63% ....Small teams in every country have the lowest % of possession because they just can't hold the ball and they just hoof the ball clear..In FM2016 small teams play defensively have the most possession or at least equal with yours which is unreal...This is due to attacking and better teams do not press as much as they should be and leave the ball to their opponent to do their passing game...

totally agreed..

Small teams in every country have the lowest % of possession because they just can't hold the ball and they just hoof the ball clear..In FM2016 small teams play defensively have the most possession or at least equal with yours which is unreal...This is due to attacking and better teams do not press as much as they should be and leave the ball to their opponent to do their passing game...

It's often a mix, see EPL sides such as Swansea who are always up the possession charts on a budget whilst still being nowhere near the top of the actual table -- if you dig further you'll see that they recycle possession in areas where there just isn't much pressure, first season under Rodgers in particular (i.e. keeping the ball for keeping the ball's sake). Additionally some Bundesliga opponents of Bayern set up in a way that a couple years ago you would have only seen in domestic Cup games between teams tiers apart: dropping off and hoping for the best, which means frequently Bayern have all the time and space in the world to pass the ball around the park. Still, pretty much.

That in FM 2016 non-league standard opponents can just keep the ball against CL sides and actually outpass them just tells the story. It's also completely new and unlike any previous iteration. There seems to be something wonky going on with pressuring opponents (in their half) wasting time and dawdling on the ball in deep areas which didn't at all previously. Whether they do it from the start, such as super heavy underdogs may do or during spells of a game which Stoke away at the Emirates might do when being cut down to ten or taking the lead / still being en route to gain a draw. Additionally, players with weaker mental stats used to clear it when they were reasonably pushed... this is something that's always been tweaked (work in progress, heh), as is evident by patch notes. You couldn't just hold your own by successfully trying to recycle possession with a much weaker side as far back as FM 2008 (which was my first). Additionally, in the game Bayern are frequent favourites and employ forward pushing aggressive tactics with lots of attack duties, compressing space hugely and funneling everything towards the final third, plus upon recently anyways, one forward is always on attack duty for the AI. In Guardiola's default 4-1-4-1 this means/meant isolating the forward from midfield pretty frequently. Additionally, the centre backs in particular are/were never much involved, no matter what anyone did as the back line clears the ball readily, and play rarely moves all the way back again to rebuild. Consequently, you never saw centre backs being the most involved in passing, such as Boateng is.

Bayern in real life has 68% possession, Barcelona 61%, PSG 63% ....Small teams in every country have the lowest % of possession because they just can't hold the ball and they just hoof the ball clear..In FM2016 small teams play defensively have the most possession or at least equal with yours which is unreal...This is due to attacking and better teams do not press as much as they should be and leave the ball to their opponent to do their passing game...

Which brings out pressing as a key issue of the ME since forever. There are exceptions among lower quality teams (Rayo Vallecano, Swansea), but generally, possession percentages for stronger, possession-based teams in FM are lower than they should be.

but is that due to the lower quality teams, or that the AI doesn't press as much in FM as their real-life counterparts (especially further up the pitch)

I saw once (can't seem to find it now) of someone trying to replicate some pressing styles (Klopp's seems to be popular) then they're pressing practically everyone, and my assistant rarely recommends that (maybe 2-3 and that's against table-topping Chelsea)

RTH is on the money here. Teams don't squeeze space toward the touchline to effectively mark support in wider areas and tend not to press back passes, so Contain/Defensive can accumulate big passing totals. Often, if you play as a superpower, you'll dominate possession early and get 1-2 goals, then the opposition will retreat into a defensive shell and start controlling possession by just sitting on the ball in deep positions. Adding to that, FM calculates possession by time elapsed since the last change of possession, not percentage of attempted passes, so all the dead time from set pieces and players holding up/shielding the ball help defensive sides pad their numbers.

Which is why ongoing comparisons to real life stats aren't really relevant.