Ajax - When Real Life Meets Football Manager - FM14

I answered this already in the quote you used

Just wanted to make sure. For I thought if you saw a spirited HOYD and a Resolute one. You would take the resolute one. Or if you see any staff with model citizen you would take them over the other staff members. I also thought that since it is easier to gauge the professionalism stat than the ambition stat. You would take stat that are more professional.

Following and reading about events at my own club, Hearts, this past 7 days made me think of this thread, the Ajax approach and linked subjects.

Hearts Background

For those who perhaps dont know much about the Hearts situation, the club just exited administration, after nearly 18 months. Previously bankrolled by the excentric (im being polite...) Lithuanian banker Vladimir Romanov, they accumulated huge debts by spending beyond their means to bring modest success (a couple of cup wins and regular European football). With the debts being to the banks owned by Romanov, which were both also placed in administration, Hearts were able to escape the liquidation fate of Rangers and instead escape with a 15pts penalty, and a season with a signing ban meaning it was a team of kids. Relegation inevitably followed.

As they come out of administration, the clubs new owner, a shrew businesswomen and Hearts Supporter recognised that whilst she is an excellent business expert, she is not a football expert and should not try to be one. She has appointed Craig Levein as Director of Football, with complete control over all football aspects of the club. Outside of Scotland, Levein is probably best known for a reasonably average spell at Leicester 10 years ago, then a somewhat ill-fated spell as Scotland Manager more recently.

Craig Levein at Dundee Utd and his approach

What is probably less well recognised outside of Scotland, is the job Levein did in his last club job. At Dundee Utd. On the pitch he brough success, but it was off the pitch where his biggest impact was made. Levein was actually appointed as Director of Football as well as first team Manager at Utd (and was also given a place on the clubs board) and his main legacy was the step change he made to the clubs approach to youth development and coaching. This is where the comparisons to Ajax/this thread start to come in.

Levein's major observation, over 2 years as manager, was that when youth team players were promoted to the first team squad they had a shocking lack of basic ball skills. They made be athletically ready, but they didnt have the basics of first touch, technique, composure. Levein's view was that by the time a youth team player hits the first team, those should all be developed to the extent where only background level of training is needed on them. As a player reaches the first team, his development should then switch to the tactical aspects of the game, reading of the game, organisation, set pieces, leadership.

Levein/Cathro Youth Development

The solution was to start coaching youngsters in these basics as soon as they enter the club - the 9 - 14 age groups were identified as key and a little known young Scottish Coach was brought in to manage all aspects of this age group. Ian Cathro was only 22 when appointed to the role, but he was clearly from a very different background to the traditional Scottish Coach. There is a very interesting article about Cathro here.

During his time at Dundee Utd, Cathro was responsible for bringing through most of the current exciting batch of youngsters who are now first team regulars, including probaly Scottish Footballs best young young prospects in Ryan Gauld and John Souttar. More recently, he probably confirmed he is not your average Scottish Coach, by accepting a role as Assistant Manager at Portugese side Rio Ave. He is now set to John Hearts under Levein and take up a position as Head of Youth Development, again with his primary focus being on the younger age groups.

The New Hearts

So that brings us on to the "New Hears" and what Craig Levein is trying to build. Reading his interviews, and looking at what he did at Utd (and the impending arrival of Cathro), his aims for the club are:

1) Develop a universal approach to football from top to bottom - At every level the coaching staff will follow the same footballing philosophies/approach to the game. The recruitment team must also follow the same approach, so that any signings integrate to the club style and philosophies.

2) Create a conveyor belt of talent for backroom staff - The next hearts manager after Robbie Neilson must come from within, and the next after that. This is a crucial part of the overall approach and as Levein mentioned, not seen in British Football since Liverpool in the 70's and 80s.

3) Further enhance an already impressive youth system - focusing heavily on technical training for the younger age groups and have the youth development benefit from the universal approach to football throughout the club

One of the more detailed interviews Levein gave is here

Creating this in Football Manager

The reason i posted this in this thread, is because i believe there are a number of similarities in what Hearts want to create and what Ajax have. I would try to use some of the principles Cleon and others have posted to make it happen in FM. There are, of course, limitations, such as the obvious one of minimal influence over the coaching of u16's.

Firstly, i have edited the default 14.3 DB. I have relegated Hearts, promoted Rangers into the Championship (to better reflect the difficulty of the first season) and i have brought Hearts out of Administration, removed the transfer embargo and created Ann Budge as a fairly run of the mill chairwomen. I have added Craig Levein as DOF, Ian Cathro as HOYD and Robbie Neilson has been appointed U20's coach (since i am taking his real job!). I have also edited the "preferred formation" of all 3 of those staff members to be 451.

Developing a universal approach top to bottom - Football Manager - This is something lots of people have posted about on these forums, and at the basic level it is not too hard to accomplish. The initial actions to do this are:

a) Ensure that all 3 teams (Senior, Reserve, U20) play the same tactics. By tactics i specifically mean mentality/approach (eg team and player settings). Formation is less important, but we will play the same formation across our 3 teams anyway

b) Implement a form of the "squad management" mentioned in the OP - The ajax was splitting into right and left footed players and having a set number of players covering 2 positions each (the OP details this properly). I havent fully settled on my approach for this yet, but it needs to be strictly followed at all levels to ensure the squad depth is balanced and players at all positions have the chance to move up the ladder.

c) Recruitment - Whilst we are youth foccused, it doesnt mean we will never sign players. Of course we will. Each signing must fit into our style of play and approach. We are going to be possesion based, so signings will fit into a specific profile.

d) Coaches preferred syles - This is going to be hard to implement in FM, but ideally all of our coaching staff would have the same "Preferred playing style", "Preferred Mentality" and "Preferred Marking Style". I am less fussed about formations again. I couldnt find anyway to edit these in the ingame or pre-game editor for my existing staff which is a shame, and i am not sure they are dynamic in game for anything other than human managers? I will try to sign only staff members who match my clubs preferred Style and Mentality, or are one notch away from it (eg – Adveturous vs Attacking is not a big jump so I would accept this. Cautious v Attacking is and wont work)

2) Create a conveyor belt of talent for backroom staff – This is also going to be a little bit hard to implement, since I intend to be the manager throughout! However I will attempt to always promote from within to fulfil more senior positions as staff leave (e.g. look to move up U19 Manager to Reserve, and Reserve to Ass Man etc). I will also attempt to sign young staff with potential, although there appears to be no way to assess this in game? Also staff CA development is something I have never seen explored or explained in FM?

3) Further enhance an already impressive youth system – This is the one I think I can have the biggest impact in creating in-game. Some of the keys to this are:

a) Look to improve Junior Coaching, YRN and Youth facilities whenever possible – Self explanatory, but we are going to be focused on youth development and these are the building blocks

b) Implement something akin to the Ajax approach of introducing 3 youth products to the first team squad each season. I will also look for a rough 80/20 split between youth and experience in the first team squad.

c) Focus player recruitment on players 18 and under. Whilst my main focus is our own youth, its clear that Scotland doesn’t have a huge talent pool. Although by increasing YRN and having good scouting knowledge we might get some youngsters from abroad, I will supplement this by targeted u18 signings. Of course, the key will be that each must fit our desired player profile

d) Training and development – The most important factor by miles. Several subfactors to this:

d.1) Attribute training – I want to focus initially on the basics for young players, ala Levein/Cathro at Dundee Utd. So for each youth player/signing, the first 12 months training will be rotation of:

First Touch

Technique

Composure

Passsing

(these are my personal choice/judgement of “the basics”)

d.2) PPMS – Players will be taught PPM from year 2 onwards, and will be taught only those which fit into a framework, by position, which matches our footballing approach (matrix yet to be created)

d.3) Tutoring – I will use this where possible, but financial constraints mean I cant carry too many experienced players, so wont be able to tutor everyone. It can be applied anytime in a players development for me.

d.4) Positional re-training – In addition to the odd case where I identify that a player would be better in a new position, for a club the size of hearts its going to be important to have players who can handle multiple positions. I will aim for a ratio that 80% of my squad can cover more than one position in our system at least “adequately”.

And so far, that’s what I have. A combination of a desire to see the “New Hearts” vision become reality, my own ideas, and a lot of borrowing from Cleon/Ajax. Clearly there are a lot of other things I have yet to settle on, such as how to approach training for the first team, but I am more inclined to think that should be “bespoke” and based on the players development needs and the teams needs.

Now that’s one long ramble isn’t it……..

When you train youngesters/reserve, do you set their individual training workload to Heavy? (like Central Defender::Heavy for example)? Do you care if they are happy with their workloads at all? I noticed AI manager to go "heavy" with youngsters whenever I click the button, but myself I typically prefer to go average or even light (assuming I am training new positions and weaker foot).

Professional players, (and others), won't care about heavy workloads, they'll just get on with it. Hence why Cleon puts so much emphasis on tutoring for the benefits certain personalities give you.

When you train youngesters/reserve, do you set their individual training workload to Heavy? (like Central Defender::Heavy for example)? Do you care if they are happy with their workloads at all? I noticed AI manager to go "heavy" with youngsters whenever I click the button, but myself I typically prefer to go average or even light (assuming I am training new positions and weaker foot).

I must have answered this about 100 millions times in this thread. I also say what I set training levels too under the training section.....

Following and reading about events at my own club, Hearts, this past 7 days made me think of this thread, the Ajax approach and linked subjects.

Hearts Background

For those who perhaps dont know much about the Hearts situation, the club just exited administration, after nearly 18 months. Previously bankrolled by the excentric (im being polite...) Lithuanian banker Vladimir Romanov, they accumulated huge debts by spending beyond their means to bring modest success (a couple of cup wins and regular European football). With the debts being to the banks owned by Romanov, which were both also placed in administration, Hearts were able to escape the liquidation fate of Rangers and instead escape with a 15pts penalty, and a season with a signing ban meaning it was a team of kids. Relegation inevitably followed.

As they come out of administration, the clubs new owner, a shrew businesswomen and Hearts Supporter recognised that whilst she is an excellent business expert, she is not a football expert and should not try to be one. She has appointed Craig Levein as Director of Football, with complete control over all football aspects of the club. Outside of Scotland, Levein is probably best known for a reasonably average spell at Leicester 10 years ago, then a somewhat ill-fated spell as Scotland Manager more recently.

Craig Levein at Dundee Utd and his approach

What is probably less well recognised outside of Scotland, is the job Levein did in his last club job. At Dundee Utd. On the pitch he brough success, but it was off the pitch where his biggest impact was made. Levein was actually appointed as Director of Football as well as first team Manager at Utd (and was also given a place on the clubs board) and his main legacy was the step change he made to the clubs approach to youth development and coaching. This is where the comparisons to Ajax/this thread start to come in.

Levein's major observation, over 2 years as manager, was that when youth team players were promoted to the first team squad they had a shocking lack of basic ball skills. They made be athletically ready, but they didnt have the basics of first touch, technique, composure. Levein's view was that by the time a youth team player hits the first team, those should all be developed to the extent where only background level of training is needed on them. As a player reaches the first team, his development should then switch to the tactical aspects of the game, reading of the game, organisation, set pieces, leadership.

Levein/Cathro Youth Development

The solution was to start coaching youngsters in these basics as soon as they enter the club - the 9 - 14 age groups were identified as key and a little known young Scottish Coach was brought in to manage all aspects of this age group. Ian Cathro was only 22 when appointed to the role, but he was clearly from a very different background to the traditional Scottish Coach. There is a very interesting article about Cathro here.

During his time at Dundee Utd, Cathro was responsible for bringing through most of the current exciting batch of youngsters who are now first team regulars, including probaly Scottish Footballs best young young prospects in Ryan Gauld and John Souttar. More recently, he probably confirmed he is not your average Scottish Coach, by accepting a role as Assistant Manager at Portugese side Rio Ave. He is now set to John Hearts under Levein and take up a position as Head of Youth Development, again with his primary focus being on the younger age groups.

The New Hearts

So that brings us on to the "New Hears" and what Craig Levein is trying to build. Reading his interviews, and looking at what he did at Utd (and the impending arrival of Cathro), his aims for the club are:

1) Develop a universal approach to football from top to bottom - At every level the coaching staff will follow the same footballing philosophies/approach to the game. The recruitment team must also follow the same approach, so that any signings integrate to the club style and philosophies.

2) Create a conveyor belt of talent for backroom staff - The next hearts manager after Robbie Neilson must come from within, and the next after that. This is a crucial part of the overall approach and as Levein mentioned, not seen in British Football since Liverpool in the 70's and 80s.

3) Further enhance an already impressive youth system - focusing heavily on technical training for the younger age groups and have the youth development benefit from the universal approach to football throughout the club

One of the more detailed interviews Levein gave is here

Creating this in Football Manager

The reason i posted this in this thread, is because i believe there are a number of similarities in what Hearts want to create and what Ajax have. I would try to use some of the principles Cleon and others have posted to make it happen in FM. There are, of course, limitations, such as the obvious one of minimal influence over the coaching of u16's.

Firstly, i have edited the default 14.3 DB. I have relegated Hearts, promoted Rangers into the Championship (to better reflect the difficulty of the first season) and i have brought Hearts out of Administration, removed the transfer embargo and created Ann Budge as a fairly run of the mill chairwomen. I have added Craig Levein as DOF, Ian Cathro as HOYD and Robbie Neilson has been appointed U20's coach (since i am taking his real job!). I have also edited the "preferred formation" of all 3 of those staff members to be 451.

Developing a universal approach top to bottom - Football Manager - This is something lots of people have posted about on these forums, and at the basic level it is not too hard to accomplish. The initial actions to do this are:

a) Ensure that all 3 teams (Senior, Reserve, U20) play the same tactics. By tactics i specifically mean mentality/approach (eg team and player settings). Formation is less important, but we will play the same formation across our 3 teams anyway

b) Implement a form of the "squad management" mentioned in the OP - The ajax was splitting into right and left footed players and having a set number of players covering 2 positions each (the OP details this properly). I havent fully settled on my approach for this yet, but it needs to be strictly followed at all levels to ensure the squad depth is balanced and players at all positions have the chance to move up the ladder.

c) Recruitment - Whilst we are youth foccused, it doesnt mean we will never sign players. Of course we will. Each signing must fit into our style of play and approach. We are going to be possesion based, so signings will fit into a specific profile.

d) Coaches preferred syles - This is going to be hard to implement in FM, but ideally all of our coaching staff would have the same "Preferred playing style", "Preferred Mentality" and "Preferred Marking Style". I am less fussed about formations again. I couldnt find anyway to edit these in the ingame or pre-game editor for my existing staff which is a shame, and i am not sure they are dynamic in game for anything other than human managers? I will try to sign only staff members who match my clubs preferred Style and Mentality, or are one notch away from it (eg – Adveturous vs Attacking is not a big jump so I would accept this. Cautious v Attacking is and wont work)

2) Create a conveyor belt of talent for backroom staff – This is also going to be a little bit hard to implement, since I intend to be the manager throughout! However I will attempt to always promote from within to fulfil more senior positions as staff leave (e.g. look to move up U19 Manager to Reserve, and Reserve to Ass Man etc). I will also attempt to sign young staff with potential, although there appears to be no way to assess this in game? Also staff CA development is something I have never seen explored or explained in FM?

3) Further enhance an already impressive youth system – This is the one I think I can have the biggest impact in creating in-game. Some of the keys to this are:

a) Look to improve Junior Coaching, YRN and Youth facilities whenever possible – Self explanatory, but we are going to be focused on youth development and these are the building blocks

b) Implement something akin to the Ajax approach of introducing 3 youth products to the first team squad each season. I will also look for a rough 80/20 split between youth and experience in the first team squad.

c) Focus player recruitment on players 18 and under. Whilst my main focus is our own youth, its clear that Scotland doesn’t have a huge talent pool. Although by increasing YRN and having good scouting knowledge we might get some youngsters from abroad, I will supplement this by targeted u18 signings. Of course, the key will be that each must fit our desired player profile

d) Training and development – The most important factor by miles. Several subfactors to this:

d.1) Attribute training – I want to focus initially on the basics for young players, ala Levein/Cathro at Dundee Utd. So for each youth player/signing, the first 12 months training will be rotation of:

First Touch

Technique

Composure

Passsing

(these are my personal choice/judgement of “the basics”)

d.2) PPMS – Players will be taught PPM from year 2 onwards, and will be taught only those which fit into a framework, by position, which matches our footballing approach (matrix yet to be created)

d.3) Tutoring – I will use this where possible, but financial constraints mean I cant carry too many experienced players, so wont be able to tutor everyone. It can be applied anytime in a players development for me.

d.4) Positional re-training – In addition to the odd case where I identify that a player would be better in a new position, for a club the size of hearts its going to be important to have players who can handle multiple positions. I will aim for a ratio that 80% of my squad can cover more than one position in our system at least “adequately”.

And so far, that’s what I have. A combination of a desire to see the “New Hearts” vision become reality, my own ideas, and a lot of borrowing from Cleon/Ajax. Clearly there are a lot of other things I have yet to settle on, such as how to approach training for the first team, but I am more inclined to think that should be “bespoke” and based on the players development needs and the teams needs.

Now that’s one long ramble isn’t it……..

A cracking post, nice to see you creating your own dynasty with the club you support

Thanks Cleon, already made my first change to my approach. Whilst looking at my initial squad, clearly i dont have a fresh "intake" in season one, so i picked the players U18 and split them into Tier 1 and Tier 2 prospects, based in the main on Ass Man feedback, and looking at an 11/11 split (although i am quite a bit short initially as the starting squad is small).

I decided to spreadsheet them all, of course . I created a matrix of the 4 key attributes i mentioned for each, with a view to tracking how those progress month on month. In doing this, it highlighed that i had some players who had, for example, 14 for technique already at age 17. However they maybe have 7 passing. So the uniform approach of giving them a monthly rotation across the 4 attributes isnt best suited to that case. I dont need his technique to develop further at that age (it hopefully will naturally, but not via specific training).

So instead i have settled on an approach where i will set a threshold of 12 for each of these 4 attributes, and a player must have 3 of the 4 at 12 before he can move up a tier. This means i will target those which need most development. For some, it will just be a rotation across the 4 for training, for others it might be 3 months intensive on one area.

I will alter the "threshold" level as i move up, but given that i am in the second level of scottish Football, for now 12 is a good level.

Im sure i will have other learnings along the way!

I've decided that finally I will be updating this thread with some new stuff from this Ajax save after not playing it for months. Luckily I kept the save and have lots more updates I want to give in terms of player development etc

Looking forward to that one, gonna bookmark this I think.

I got a youngster who's next Batistuta in all regards, but he has lungs of an asthmatic. I spied his future stats and saw that the best he can do in Stamina is 9 points (and twice that in all other attributes). Should I just scrap this guy, not bother making anything out of him?

What do you do when you get a "cursed" player, who has great potential attributes overall, but in one thing he just is terrible and will never catch up, making him very vulnerable on the pitch? Do you set him to train against his curse (like in the above example: stamina) for his entire life?

His stamina can go higher than 9 there is no ceiling. I'm guessing you used a 3rd party tool that predicts what the attributes can become? It's wrong as it doesn't take any training into account and just does a random guess which is always wrong. You cannot predict what attributes someone will get.

So theoretically I can get everyone to 20... jumping reach for example? Even starting at 1 jumping at the age of 15?

So theoretically I can get everyone to 20... jumping reach for example? Even starting at 1 jumping at the age of 15?

Not jumping reach because that's tied to a players height/heading so it will always be linked with that. But in terms of other attributes yes, the key thing is how much PA someone has and how much CA is used. Even someone who has reached full potential can still see more increases in attributes but this then comes at a cost of other attributes. So someone maxed out (potential wise) might gain 1 in tackling so this will be taken from other attributes so you might see tackling rise but crossing decrease etc

Not jumping reach because that's tied to a players height/heading so it will always be linked with that. But in terms of other attributes yes, the key thing is how much PA someone has and how much CA is used. Even someone who has reached full potential can still see more increases in attributes but this then comes at a cost of other attributes. So someone maxed out (potential wise) might gain 1 in tackling so this will be taken from other attributes so you might see tackling rise but crossing decrease etc

Just wanted to follow up on that jumping reach. I remember I previously had someone (I think it was Phil Jones) on a jumping reach training scheme for ages without it rising much above mediocre. He's not the biggest CB in the world, but he's not short. Is this attribute really capped based on a player's height, or is there flexibility and this was because of some other reason?

Just wanted to follow up on that jumping reach. I remember I previously had someone (I think it was Phil Jones) on a jumping reach training scheme for ages without it rising much above mediocre. He's not the biggest CB in the world, but he's not short. Is this attribute really capped based on a player's height, or is there flexibility and this was because of some other reason?

Capped by a players height yes, so someone 180cm isn't ever going to get above 15 for example. Height is included in the jumping reach calculations.

Capped by a players height yes, so someone 180cm isn't ever going to get above 15 for example. Height is included in the jumping reach calculations.

What about for taller players? For instance, Ronaldo (at 186) can seemingly jump considerably higher than Dimitar Berbatov (at 189) or Ibrahimovic (at 195). I would go so far as to suggest Ronaldo should probably have a jumping reach of 20...

Would a 184 player be capped to 17 or so, no matter their "explosiveness"?

Does anyone have any insight into coach development in FM? And whether such a thing even exists? As i mentioned in my long post about Hearts, it is something they are puting central to there club and it seems to me to be a massive gap in FM? The question i have are:

• We know that all staff have a CA and PA (the pre-game editor shows this). Is there any possible way in game to make any judgement on a staff members PA/CA? CA i guess you could look at the overall stats but i can see no way to judge whether a staff member has good PA??
  
• What are the ways to "develop" a coach and improve his CA/coaching stats? Is there anything other than sending them on course (and is it correct assume that the coaching courses should improve the coach?)
  
• Are coaches preffered playing style and playing mentality dynamic? E.g if i have a staff member who prefers "direct" playing style, and he spends 3 years in my club where every level plays "short", will he change/learn?
  
• Do the above mentioned "attributes" have any impact in game? I previously thought that on a HOYD those could impact the type of youth intakes, but hard to understand exactly how?
  

I am interested in opinions and evidence from others games, but really more interested in links to official guidance or answers on these topics? I apprecaite there are certain things that SI wont want to "give away" but these seem like fundamental parts of the game, which i struggle to find any guidance on.

brilliant mate brilliant

Great thread!

A quick question:

After my tactics familiarity is full and I already set the individual training for my players... how should I set the scheduling bar in the training section for the rest of the season in your opinion?

currently its set on my save to 40% spending time on match preparation.

this is good?

Does anyone have any insight into coach development in FM? And whether such a thing even exists? As i mentioned in my long post about Hearts, it is something they are puting central to there club and it seems to me to be a massive gap in FM? The question i have are:

• We know that all staff have a CA and PA (the pre-game editor shows this). Is there any possible way in game to make any judgement on a staff members PA/CA? CA i guess you could look at the overall stats but i can see no way to judge whether a staff member has good PA??
  
• What are the ways to "develop" a coach and improve his CA/coaching stats? Is there anything other than sending them on course (and is it correct assume that the coaching courses should improve the coach?)
  
• Are coaches preffered playing style and playing mentality dynamic? E.g if i have a staff member who prefers "direct" playing style, and he spends 3 years in my club where every level plays "short", will he change/learn?
  
• Do the above mentioned "attributes" have any impact in game? I previously thought that on a HOYD those could impact the type of youth intakes, but hard to understand exactly how?
  

I am interested in opinions and evidence from others games, but really more interested in links to official guidance or answers on these topics? I apprecaite there are certain things that SI wont want to "give away" but these seem like fundamental parts of the game, which i struggle to find any guidance on.

They tend to develop with age naturally and the only influence you have is sending them on coaches. You can kind of gauge if someone can improve or not by how they do on courses, if you have someone struggling then chances are they've reached their potential.

They're not dynamic either no. Also what do you mean impacts youth intakes? I already wrote about this in the thread and explained what influences their PA, CA etc. The staff will influence the newgens personality types that's why its important to have like minded staff. Also their preferred formation might influence the type of players you get if that's what your asking. I.e if staff was full of people with 3-5-2 as their preferred formation then it's unlikely you'd get many fullbacks compared to midfielders etc.

Great thread!

A quick question:

After my tactics familiarity is full and I already set the individual training for my players... how should I set the scheduling bar in the training section for the rest of the season in your opinion?

currently its set on my save to 40% spending time on match preparation.

this is good?

I explained this already in the training section, I said;

Remember that because I am focusing on individual attributes or roles that I set general training slider to match training 20% or less and give the players heavy focus for their role. It's also important I leave it on balanced due to the reasons explained in the training section of this thread.

If you are focusing on pure player development and want to spend more time on it then you have match training as low as possible. I actually don't have any match training for most parts as I don't need it but I say 20% for those who can't live without it.

Do you have any good numbers on how PA translates into the amount of attribute points at player's disposal? Something like PA = 190, then ~750 points total to be distributed among player's attributes?

Also, in my current save I keep getting brilliant strikers with every new youth intake, which is annoying, as I only need like three or four every decade. Never get a high rating defenders or midfielders. How much do I need to alter my coaching team to change that?

Do you have any good numbers on how PA translates into the amount of attribute points at player's disposal? Something like PA = 190, then ~750 points total to be distributed among player's attributes?

Also, in my current save I keep getting brilliant strikers with every new youth intake, which is annoying, as I only need like three or four every decade. Never get a high rating defenders or midfielders. How much do I need to alter my coaching team to change that?

You can't break it down like that because higher the attribute the more CA it costs and not all attributes cost the same CA anyway. So going from like 17 to 18 will cost more CA than going from 1-2 etc.

Get coaches and staff who are like minded then and have the preferred formations that give you a better chance of the type of players you need.

I was thinking of signing Cavani for head of youth development. He's of Spirited personality and his coaching style is fitness. Seems to prefer mixed 422 formations as well. His stats all around are pretty terrible, as far as being a coach goes. His judging of ability and potential is terrifyingly low.

Is there any way I could predict from his stats what kind of regens he's going to be delivering to me? I'd presume I am going to get regens with rather quite good hidden attributes, since his spirited-ness is going to impact that. But will their physical stats be better due to his fitness style? And won't his ability/potential blindness affect them in any bad way?

If you read the thread properly (the personality, facilities and staff sections) then you'll see I posted already how you get better regens and what influences them. The stats a player comes through with are nothing to do with staff its all explained under the facilities section. Your staff influence the positions and personality only.

So HoYD can be pretty much anyone, a random dude from all over the world, as long as he has one of desired personalities?

Also, what impacts the nationality of regens? I had English HoYD but never got an English regen. My coaches are from all over the world, but I still mostly get regens from San Marino and Italy every year.

So HoYD can be pretty much anyone, a random dude from all over the world, as long as he has one of desired personalities?

Also, what impacts the nationality of regens? I had English HoYD but never got an English regen. My coaches are from all over the world, but I still mostly get regens from San Marino and Italy every year.

Feeder clubs increase the chance of foreign players from that nation.

Shame that they are so broken. In the late 2020s my board isn't able to find a feeder anywhere, ever... Nor link up with the clubs I point them to...

You were right about my asthmatic guy, by the way. 50 games a season for two years, and he's way past of what that-software-thing predicted he'd ever be. :-)

Shame that they are so broken. In the late 2020s my board isn't able to find a feeder anywhere, ever... Nor link up with the clubs I point them to...

You were right about my asthmatic guy, by the way. 50 games a season for two years, and he's way past of what that-software-thing predicted he'd ever be. :-)

I think for San marino things work a bit differently. In year 2019 I have extensive youth recruitment, worldwide reputation and tons of foreign feeder clubs and foreign staff but regens are always only sammarinese and/or italian. And it's been the same at least since FM10. I'm pretty sure it's coded this way.

San Marino doesn't make for a good Ajax, apparently. Neither does Ajax, really, with the Dutch potential being so low and the rules of the league a little annoying.

Probably Germany is the best place to set up an academy. No limitations, good money and crowds, great potential. Where do you like to set up, if not in Holland? Russia, Turkey, Portugal?

Well, Germany is unappealing to young talents from South America and Africa. Not to say you can’t sign any but many won’t want to join. It’s a database setting. Russia has the same issue for those two regions. So those nations aren’t perfectly ideal for youth development.

Russia has foreigner rules of having no more than 7 foreign players. Which means you need to have at least 4 Russian players on the pitch at all times. And having Russian as a second nationality doesn’t count so it gets tough. It takes an awful long time to gain Russian nationality. Russia will generate from quality regens, from my experience, but not in large volume.

Portugal might be the best bet but I’m not as familiar with all the particularly rules. Having the same language as Brazil certainly helps in that regard.

There's an interesting aspect to that as well.

Portugal for example has a very small top league. So rather than playing 38 games a season, you have only 30 league games. That means you get pretty much a whole month worth of training more every year (8 match prep days + 8 match days + 8 rest days). Not to mention that with fewer games you can abandon match training altogether (the league isn't Premiership either), ride the right end of the slider all year. Which also generates extra attribute work (another 30 days, one for each match prep day you've scheduled to not happen).

Question is, whether it's more beneficial to players to play 8 extra games a season, or have 24 (8x3) more training days a season? Can you develop faster in Portugal than in, let's say England or Brazil, where fixture congestion is simply maddening at times? Is there more benefit to players from league games or from training work?

Well, Germany is unappealing to young talents from South America and Africa. Not to say you can’t sign any but many won’t want to join. It’s a database setting. Russia has the same issue for those two regions. So those nations aren’t perfectly ideal for youth development. Russia has foreigner rules of having no more than 7 foreign players. Which means you need to have at least 4 Russian players on the pitch at all times. And having Russian as a second nationality doesn’t count so it gets tough. It takes an awful long time to gain Russian nationality. Russia will generate from quality regens, from my experience, but not in large volume. Portugal might be the best bet but I’m not as familiar with all the particularly rules. Having the same language as Brazil certainly helps in that regard.

Most of my signings in Germany are from south America......

Are you a major club with a massive reputation? Because that seems to make a difference. It seems to override the preference, at least somewhat. At the start of a new game with Dortmund, I can generate interest from South American prospects and African prospects who have zero interest in moving if I start a new game with Stuttgart or HSV. I didn't realize there was a bias until someone pointed it out in the HSV thread. You can see in the editor by going to Germany and looking at Continental Transfer Preferences.

When setting the focus intensity to heavy for all players, can we expect them to be unhappy and as a result their training performances drop? Not every player mind, but a few here and there.

When setting the focus intensity to heavy for all players, can we expect them to be unhappy and as a result their training performances drop? Not every player mind, but a few here and there.

With General Team training on (Balanced) Low and Individual Training on Heavy, the overall player's workload is merely medium. There are always a few whingers but ignoring them is harmless in my observation. Most importantly for me, the amount of injuries is much less than I used to suffer, so it'd good news all round.

With General Team training on (Balanced) Low and Individual Training on Heavy, the overall player's workload is merely medium. There are always a few whingers but ignoring them is harmless in my observation. Most importantly for me, the amount of injuries is much less than I used to suffer, so it'd good news all round.

Scary how simple some solutions on FM are. I've had the General Team training on medium, with the individual training on heavy - no wonder they were all whinging.

Feeder clubs increase the chance of foreign players from that nation.

I believe that it is the scouting knowledge, not the presence of feeder clubs alone which increases that chance. I cant put my finger on where i read it, but im sure it was confirmed by someone from SI ages ago. I also have anecdotal evidence of it myself. In my Russia youth challenge, i have never had any feeder clubs, but have had 2 brazilian scouts with full knowledge of Brazil for 4 years. In year 3 i got 2 Brazilian regens though in my intake.

I believe that it is the scouting knowledge, not the presence of feeder clubs alone which increases that chance. I cant put my finger on where i read it, but im sure it was confirmed by someone from SI ages ago. I also have anecdotal evidence of it myself. In my Russia youth challenge, i have never had any feeder clubs, but have had 2 brazilian scouts with full knowledge of Brazil for 4 years. In year 3 i got 2 Brazilian regens though in my intake.

By having clubs in those nations as feeder ones you increase the chance. The following has to be taken into conisderation too;

Coaches nationality, chairman, physios, scouts (the full staff) all influence nationality. You then have a higher chance of them having those nationalities.

Hey Cleon,

Great thread; thank you for the advice. On tutoring - does tuturing improve Determination and Leadership? Daniele De Rossi has just become available and I am thinking about getting him to tutor Aaron Ramsey as De Rossi has the higher reputation..

Thanks again.

Hey Cleon,

Great thread; thank you for the advice. On tutoring - does tuturing improve Determination and Leadership? Daniele De Rossi has just become available and I am thinking about getting him to tutor Aaron Ramsey as De Rossi has the higher reputation..

Thanks again.

No if you've read the tutoring section of the thread you'll see I categorically stated that determination is the only visible attribute that changes, the rest are all hidden

Hey Cleon,

Great thread; thank you for the advice. On tutoring - does tuturing improve Determination and Leadership? Daniele De Rossi has just become available and I am thinking about getting him to tutor Aaron Ramsey as De Rossi has the higher reputation..

Thanks again.

it does improve determination and personality, not sure about leadership though. De Rossi has excellent determination and personality if I'm not mistaken, so he'd be a good choice as a mentor. Be careful to the preferred moves though as he may pass his own PPM's during the tutoring so make sure they're desirable for your style and tactic (e.g. de rossi might have 'shoots from distance' PPM)

Cleon, does retraining cost ca/pa points?

No if you've read the tutoring section of the thread you'll see I categorically stated that determination is the only visible attribute that changes, the rest are all hidden

Ah think I misunderstood the part about the personality. So if I have a Leader or Born Leader tutoring a youngster, that youngster will not become a Leader / Born Leader themselves?

Cleon, does retraining cost ca/pa points?

No

Ah think I misunderstood the part about the personality. So if I have a Leader or Born Leader tutoring a youngster, that youngster will not become a Leader / Born Leader themselves?

They might do, it all depends on the player you are tutoring and what his current hidden stats are and what his visible attribute for leadership is. But if he lacks leadership then he'll never be a leader/born leader as he doesn't have the attribute to begin with.

I believe that it is the scouting knowledge, not the presence of feeder clubs alone which increases that chance. I cant put my finger on where i read it, but im sure it was confirmed by someone from SI ages ago. I also have anecdotal evidence of it myself. In my Russia youth challenge, i have never had any feeder clubs, but have had 2 brazilian scouts with full knowledge of Brazil for 4 years. In year 3 i got 2 Brazilian regens though in my intake.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375189-Scouting-Regions-Bug?p=9549663&viewfull=1#post9549663 SI about youth intake and scouting knowledge

They might do, it all depends on the player you are tutoring and what his current hidden stats are and what his visible attribute for leadership is. But if he lacks leadership then he'll never be a leader/born leader as he doesn't have the attribute to begin with.

Thanks Cleon. So my understanding is that if I want a future Captain then I tutor with a high Determination player and train Leadership at the same time.

I've noticed you can't really improve Aggression through tutoring or training. Are there any other attributes we should be aware of that are difficult to increase?

I've updated the thread from post 17 to 30 to add 5 seasons of development. Expect more updates soon.

Also added new stuff (Season 5) to post 32

Just added season 6 to post 32