Has anybody found a way to counter the goalies ball over the top...

I like this game. I really do. I like the new features. I love the new 3D because it's better than I ever thought it could possibly be (I was one of the ones that said we didn't need 3D last year).

I'm just can't get into it this time around, and I've been trying to understand why.

The latest match I played just cleared it up for me.

I lost 5-0 to Brighton at home in an FA Cup second round match. Actually, I didn't lose. I quit the game before the end of the match in sheer frustration.

I think all but one of the goals I conceded was a goalie/defender's ball that soared over every player on the pitch and landed at the feet of a Brighton striker (right at his feet...not even a header down). That striker then ran on towards goal and easily slotted the ball past my keeper. Where was my defence, you may ask? Well they were on tight man marking as well as being asked to defend a bit deeper. Still, though, they stood still and gawped when they saw the striker run on to this ball.

It looked almost, to me, as if they were expecting the ball to be somewhere else. Almost as if they thought 'that doesn't happen in many football games..a ball that accurate and that long 15 times a match'.

It's getting old. 75%+ of the goals I concede are over the top balls from a goalie or defender. I have tried everything to counter it and yet they still manage to get opportunity after opportunity in the same fashion.

I can't get into the game because I can't get past this one very obvious flaw. It's almost as if the game is cheating.

I hate to rant like I am. I'm usually the one that steps in and takes SI's side on ranty topics, but this time it is wrong. The activation problems weren't really something I got uppity about. The injury problems that people think is a killer isn't really. Bournemouth have a disastrous record with small injuries and I think it's about spot on this time. The number of goals scored is about right. Last year, and the year before, there were way too many goals.

This ball over the top is a killer for me. Unless there is a cast iron way that someone can point out to me that fixes it and protects against it.

It doesn't work like this for my strikers. A ball flies over the top and they can run on to it but there is always a last man to stop them, or the goalie saves easy.

Sorry to rant, but maybe this is helping to clear my frustration.

It's quite clearly a bug. Happens numerous times a game.

Deepest defensive line with a DM? Also not so tight with the marking?

wait for SI to sort the match engine out its 1 of MANY BUGS

Deepest defensive line with a DM? Also not so tight with the marking?

Happens when I don't tight mark. There's the deepness of my frustration. For the Brighton game I had a DM to counter a threat but these balls over the top evade any DM. They evade anyone.

Sorry, it's the frustration. Maybe I'm getting old and crankier. I just can't get past this one.

I had this problem too. And, like you, was getting very frustarted by it! At the minute im trying my centre backs with backward arrows and it appears to be working!

wait for SI to sort the match engine out its 1 of MANY BUGS

Yes I think FM09 goes on hold till a patch for me.

i could live with minor bugs but match engine is so bad the game has become unplayable for me

This ruins the game for me. I don't seem to concede too many, but my goalkeepers get assists all the time. Its pathetic to be honest. even telling them to give the ball to a fullback doesn't stop it.

between that and random long balls over the top bouncing off of goalkeepers like they're a wooden plank and they have some serious work to do.

Like i've stated before, why on earth didn't they just use the FML match engine and leave it alone. FM09 plus FML's ME = perfect game. Apart from the stupid, stupid transfer mentalities of managers but thats another discussion.

Deepest defensive line with a DM? Also not so tight with the marking?

Nope, tried that and still lose goals to this bug, i have logged a thread in the bugs forum AND the tactics forum but cannot stop this.

I'm trying my centre backs with backward arrows and it appears to be working!

Nope, my tactics have both my DC's in my 4-4-2 formation with forward runs set to rare (back arrows) and still they stand and look as the ball flies over their head whilst speedy gonzalez runs in and scores.

To me this is the biggest bug in the game as it affects EVERYONE.

sweeper?

now i'm clutching at straws

I just had a shot hit the post, their defender picks it up in his own 6 yard box and hoofs it up the field, my team has a low, defense mentality yet they do nothing as a runner runs a full 70 yards and scores 2 seconds after I just hit the post.

It is really gay this bug!!!!

sweeper?

now i'm clutching at straws

Aye, I heard someone tried that but it means a 5 man defence with 4 defenders and one sweeper.....

i aint had this problem yet i find it best to use the default tactics

To me this is the biggest bug in the game as it affects EVERYONE.

It doesn't affect me. I've scored one or two goal like this (and missed many chances) but I haven't conceded a goal this way yet.

It doesn't affect me. I've scored one or two goal like this (and missed many chances) but I haven't conceded a goal this way yet.

i have scored a few like that aswell

I have some success with having my CD zonal marking and my DMC zonal tight marking. Both DC have excellent positioning attributes. It seems to work with the long ball from the keeper happening maybe 1 every dozen or so games. It doesn't stop the AI trying it, its just when it does my CD (rather then concentrating on the man (man marking) is setting himself up to defend his area (zonal marking). Also have your GK closing down a bit more as well, this should shorten the gap between your GK and your backline. Hope this helps, it seems to work okay for me. I tend to conceade most of my goals from crosses , where as all my crosses get constantly blocked by the first defender.

It is not all the time but does happen too often, I'm glad others are not experiencing this issue, what tactics are the guys that are not getting this using?

I'm really thankful that this hasn't turned into an all out argument like many discussions do here.

I maybe ranted a bit in my original post but I didn't want this to turn into a big heated argument. I definitely didn't want people to start threads like the 'sign here if you are stopping playing until a patch comes out'. I was frustrated with my last game so my post maybe turned a little more ranty than I'd have liked.

If you read this thread please don't start antagonistic and abusive posts using my words. I want a discussion on a problem that I think affects everyone; not an excuse to get ridiculous and overly angry.

Thankfully the petitiony thread got locked.

Someone mentioned a sweeper. I often play a win back formation with the most central of my defenders playing almost in a sweeper position. I was still affected by the ball over the top.

There's been some great suggestions here and I'm not gonna let myself give up on a game I think is good. Gonna try more ideas.

A very sensible post from you anagain,

let us see if we can try and "combat" this bug as we await the next patch that will hopefully fix this issue.

This is annoying. But at the same time i scored 7 times like this at least( 7 were the times my gk made an assist, couldnt bother to check my defenders), so it keeps it in balance as its not only your defense the ones that is pathetic. Still, this should be improved greatly, cant be that the defenders are that stupid.

Another thing that is bothering me deeply is the stupid own goals of the other team (luckily my team never gave away a goal like this, if not i would have cracked my wall several times with my fist) In my last 6 matches i scored 4 own goals, in two of them the keeper went out of the box looking for the ball and kicked it to the back of one of its players, the ball then went towards the goal. Another time the same happened with the gk going out when it was not necessary because a defender was closer to the ball that my striker, result the keeper hits the ball right into my attacker head into the goal.( i know this doesnt count like an own goal but it should ). Another one were two defenders in the small box going for the same ball, an easy ball, and im still not sure what they did, but the ball crossed the line.

I know the feeling brother. Ive changed my tactics to try and adapt to this. I play a 4-4-2. Arrows from both my CB backwards, deep defensive line and no tight marking. It isnt perfect, but i don't concede as many as i used to before i changed.

I had this problem too. And, like you, was getting very frustarted by it! At the minute im trying my centre backs with backward arrows and it appears to be working!

Backward arrows set their forward runs to rarely, so unless you want centre backs to join the attack it's a sensible thing to do.

do people still not know that arrows now control forward runs?

Backward arrows set their forward runs to rarely, so unless you want centre backs to join the attack it's a sensible thing to do.

First thing I did with a 4-4-2 tactic............still concede to goalkeepers hoofing it....

Can't say i've had this problem, i have my two CB's making backwards runs, maybe that's somthing to do with it, although i'm sure you've tried that also.

I've also only ever scored once from a keeper hoofing it up the pitch, Adebayor ran onto it and chipped the keeper from the edge of the box, so at least it was a good goal.

The fact i'm Arsenal might help as well though

I am having a similar problem too, however the shoe (appears) to be on my foot. My keeper must have at least 5 assists.

Although i can't say its bothering me (me being the benefactor), i definitely agree that it is happening far too often.

In general, I think as far as a 3d match engine goes, it is very good but after watching it for half a season there are still serious flaws with it. It it a massive step in the right direction though!

It is a bug and will be fixed. However, a workaround is to use OI to 'Close Down Keeper Always'. It only happens after he has dropped the ball to his feet. Closing him down will disrupt his kicking preparation and make the long ball far less accurate.

I've been wondering why the computer's team seems to have a different set of rules. My strikers are useless. Their's are clinical. Mine are world class, their's on paper are rubbish.

Oh well.

An obvious bug, ridiculous really. There are two other killers for me. 1. Players wanting to pass back to the keeper from all over the pitch although judging by how amazing his assist record is I guess I can understand why. The second are the backpasses that go just past the post and turn into a corner. Loads of them!

Dreadful really, I'm not even taking into account players running the wrong way or throwing balls straight out from a throwing or defenders wanting to chase up the field for no reason.

Aye, I heard someone tried that but it means a 5 man defence with 4 defenders and one sweeper.....

That might have been me. I had massive troubles beating West Brom - who were struggling at the bottom of the table - with a Man City team who were scoring plenty and had been unlucky to lose to Arsenal and Liverpool (consecutive matches, too). They had a terrible knack of sending the ball over my defence to a place where my defenders couldn't close them down, or my defence would fail to make crucial tackles. I couldn't work out how to defeat them in about 10 attempts so I tried a 1-4-2-2-1 with the sweeper as the first 1. It seemed to work well enough, mainly as my defence now outnumbered their strikers heavily, allowing better closing down and their strikers just never got the room.

Can't say how well it would work in this situation, however, as I was after all using PL defenders with good pace and tackling, but it worked for me.

It is a bug and will be fixed. However, a workaround is to use OI to 'Close Down Keeper Always'. It only happens after he has dropped the ball to his feet. Closing him down will disrupt his kicking preparation and make the long ball far less accurate.

Nice! i will definitely try that! thanks!!

yeah, this thing and all the 35 yard screemers into the top corner is frustrating

The best thing I've found to counter this...

Mainly to do with oppo instructions.

GK and both / all Centerbacks - Close Down Always.

All Strikers and any attacking midfielders - Tight Marking Always, Close down always. It really seems to have limited the issue.

I have set Goalies Closing Down to 15 - after doing that I have not had more than 1 goal against me(IIRC) from GK hoofing up. The few highlights that comes up now shows GK coming out, the FC trying to drag him to by move to the side - but now finally the DC is in place and it runs out in nothing.

I do have other things that frustrates me though - but what to expect in Conference League

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the option to close down the oppo GK is three set choices?? (Never, No Instruction or Always) - How have you set a slider. I'm not trying to be picky or anything, perhaps its just something in the game I don't know about

heh.. no i meant my own gk;) - to make him come out and catch ball or scare striker if you know what I mean:)

LOL I thought I was the only one

And the play seems always to start the same way - a backpass from a midfielder half-way across the field, then a long punt and then a striker finsihing it off, cause goalkeepers are useless.

something ive done might help out here

i look at the opposition strikers beforehand and work out whos the fastest (easy lol) and then get your fastest centerback with around the same pace and acceleration as the striker who would be doing all the damage with the gk long ball, get ur CB to mark him closely and if the striker gets the ball, my CB usually nicks it off him or flusters him well enuf that he misses the goal completely

its working for me

It's quite clearly a bug. Happens numerous times a game.

It does't happen to me numerous times a game.

As a result, it is less clear that it is a bug.

i could live with minor bugs but match engine is so bad the game has become unplayable for me

Wheher the match engine is poor, very poor, or awful awful, what it doesn't do is make he game unplayable.

Frustrating certainly, but absolutely 100% NOT unplayable.

A bug that makes the game unplayabale would result in your game ending for one reason or another, like the confidence bug in FM08 (where you got sacked for achieving long term expectations too early), or the lower league attendance bug, (where you were sacked for the poor financial state of the club despite staying within agreed budgets).

Nope, my tactics have both my DC's in my 4-4-2 formation with forward runs set to rare (back arrows) and still they stand and look as the ball flies over their head whilst speedy gonzalez runs in and scores.

To me this is the biggest bug in the game as it affects EVERYONE.

I have seen it happen, (don't get me wrong), but really not that often at all, (twice in my first season that I can remember).

So it certainly doesn't happen to everyone and as a result it is something that once again might be contributed far more to poor tactics than poorly written code.

With each team in the Conference North currently having played 38 games of the 2009/10 season, (that's 836 games played by individual teams), and 418 games in total as each game is players by 2 teams simultaneously, then I can compare the total number of Conference North games playes so far, (418), and divide it by the the total number of assists attributed to Conference North GK's, (56). This will give me the average number of games it takes in order for a GK to provide an assist, (and just for the purposes of this demonstration I will allow you to assume that 100 of GK assists are creeated in this manner, (they are clearly not as only one third of my GK assists have come in this manner).

In any case, the above statistics suggest that, (in my game), (in Conference North), (so far in the 2009/10 season), a GK provides an assist every 7.46 games.

Now that does seem too high when compared to the Premiership football that many of you will be used to watching on TV, but is not outrageously high when compared with the lower standard of football that is my staple fare. Still a little high, but not overly so and certainly not something that would suggest that game is bug ridden and unplayable as a result, (as has been suggested in this thread).

Look guys, I am often quite critical of this game, (FM08 in particular got a pretty harsh slating from me), but if you are going to criticise stuff then start providing facts and figures to back it up rather than making ridiculous comments that you obviously are unable to back up.

Compare my stats based on all teams in Confrence North, to this claim made by anagain, (based on goals conceded by 1 particular team in 1 particular game and you will see what I mean).

It's getting old. 75%+ of the goals I concede are over the top balls from a goalie or defender. I have tried everything to counter it and yet they still manage to get opportunity after opportunity in the same fashion.

I can't get into the game because I can't get past this one very obvious flaw. It's almost as if the game is cheating.

If it's a problem then back it up with facts and figures, not wild accusations and lies.

As for those of you that have suggested barrows as a way to counter this, do any of you know what a barrow, (or a farrow for that matter), represents? It absolutely does NOT represent a backwards run.

Jim, are you talking about scoring or just the instance of strikers getting through on goal from a long punt?

I barely ever concede from it, as the resulting shot is usually put into the stands or at the keeper, but from what I have seen of the game, defenders can't deal with long balls through the centre, usually from the keeper.

Can't say i've had this problem, i have my two CB's making backwards runs, maybe that's somthing to do with it, although i'm sure you've tried that also.

I've also only ever scored once from a keeper hoofing it up the pitch, Adebayor ran onto it and chipped the keeper from the edge of the box, so at least it was a good goal.

The fact i'm Arsenal might help as well though

No you don't.

Jim, are you talking about scoring or just the instance of strikers getting through on goal from a long punt?

I barely ever concede from it, as the resulting shot is usually put into the stands or at the keeper, but from what I have seen of the game, defenders can't deal with long balls through the centre, usually from the keeper.

I'm talking about goals scored scored as a result of a long ball over the top from a GK.

This is the title of the thread.....

Re: Has anybody found a way to counter the goalies ball over the top...

And this is what people in this thread are suggesting happens every game.

I am approaching the end of my first FM09 season and it looks like I am about to be relegated, (rock bottom), so don't anyone thing for 1 minute that I am a tactical God, but with 4 games remaining I have managed to keep 9 clean sheets already this season.

And this is what people in this thread are suggesting happens every game.

It does happen every game, there just isn't a goal scored from it every game. I got the impression the thread starter just quoted an extreme example to illustrate the issue. I'm talking about strikers getting through on goal from a goalies punt because the defence can't deal with it, which happens an awful lot. Whether they finish or not is another matter.

Regardless it appears it's been acknowledged as a match engine flaw so hopefully it will be tweaked in the next patch.

I have only dealt with ststs/info on assis from GK's but am quite happy to do the same for defenders if anyone still thinks that 75% of goals come in this way.

First I will look at goals that I have scored this season.

Total assists 33.

GK & DEF assists 14. ( I have included DM's in this and also a D/WB/ML)

MID Assists 14.

SC assists 9.

Now considering all my set-pieces are taken by GK's and DEF's I don't think that the above is too unreasonable.

Why doesn't someone do an analysis of all clubs in all divisions in all leagues in all seasons and then provide some data to back up their claims if they honestly believe that the figures banded about in this thread are true.

It does happen every game, there just isn't a goal scored from it every game. I got the impression the thread starter just quoted an extreme example to illustrate the issue. I'm talking about strikers getting through on goal from a goalies punt because the defence can't deal with it, which happens an awful lot. Whether they finish or not is another matter.

Regardless it appears it's been acknowledged as a match engine flaw so hopefully it will be tweaked in the next patch.

You mean a defender misjudging a long ball happens every game:D?

Acknowledged as a match engine flaw by whom:confused:?

IIRC wwfan mentioned it in a thread(cant find it now though) - that there is some issues regarding the GK hoofing the ball past defence, and that SI had acknowledged it.