Has anybody found a way to counter the goalies ball over the top...

[Jimbokav1971]

IIRC wwfan mentioned it in a thread(cant find it now though) - that there is some issues regarding the GK hoofing the ball past defence, and that SI had acknowledged it.

I think that what SI usually do is acknowledge that people have "reported" a bug and that they will look into it.

[Jimbokav1971]

You lot make me laugh.

First it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's.

Then it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

Then it was chances created as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

Something that I have enountered far more than this, is my Ass Man reporting that a large % of kicks/clearances from my GK are not reaching their intended targets, 100% of my games so far this season, (despite quick throw to DL and passing distance set to minimum.

A thread reporting this is already in the bugs forum.

Mickyboy (testing team), does acknowledge that this is a known issue and is under review.

He also asks for more example of this. Why don't some of you post in there and give him the evidence he is looking for?

[supersaint]

I think that what SI usually do is acknowledge that people have "reported" a bug and that they will look into it.

That might be, just tried to give a reason why someone stated that it was acknowledged:P

TBH I dont care, its not an issue for me anymore (after changing CD for my goalie) - if it is a flaw in the ME I feel pretty confident that its gonna be dealt with.

[sirdez24]

You lot make me laugh.

First it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's.

Then it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

Then it was chances created as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

I've actually scored a fair few more than the opposition in this manner, so it's not a complaint that the "AI is cheating". It's just something I noticed from pretty much the first game I played. I can't speak for others, but I can speak for wwfan, who stated in this very thread: "It is a bug and will be fixed."

Not a showstopper and I can certainly live with it.

[sirdez24]

That might be, just tried to give a reason why someone stated that it was acknowledged

Post #30 in this thread.

[supersaint]

Post #30 in this thread.

I knew Ive seen him saying that

(cant see the forest for all the trees, or was it the other way around)

Anyways... It can be dealt with (both CD and OI), so as I said - not important for me anymore.

[greco]

i play an attacking style, thats my nature, that sometimes lead me to be exposed at the back when pushing up, to counter this i just move my DL back 1 notch, that usually helps, if long balls behind the DL, are getting too dangerous..

in regards to my assist´s, i have 38 assists, with 1 going to the keeper, which isnt that bad..

there are some smaller issues, but this is hardly a gamebreacker.. as wwfan stated, increase the closing down, that perhaps would help..

[jack_man]

Deffo a problem but even when i set me team to play short they do it so if both teams do it im not really bothered.

[anagain]

Thanks for the ideas people. I'm definitely going to try wwfan's workaround and see how it goes.

Jimbokav: I know I got ranty in my original post. I have already said that, and that I didn't really want people to get narky and start making accusations that this is all unwarranted. I'm not one of these people that has a general dislike of SI. I think they do a damn good job with FM every year. But...

...It is a bug. I don't believe I need facts and figures to back up the fact that it has happened to me. You can believe me or not.

It has happened to other people. You can believe them or not.

You lot make me laugh.

First it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's.

Then it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

Then it was chances created as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

I think I covered the lot in my original post. You're nitpicking and making it look like people are changing the whole point.

The general problem here is that there is a bug concerning far too many balls played over the top and defenders not being able to deal with them. I only posted after being 5-0 down to Brighton with 4 of the goals coming from the problem I identified. It frustrated me and I felt the need to write something.

I'm not going to beg for a patch. I merely wanted some feedback to see if anyone had found a workaround. I don't consider myself a tactical genius and I'll take all the help that is offered.

It's even worse when I'm being constantly beaten by a bug.

Sorry for my original rant. Maybe I should re-word it.

[PaulC]

I've fixed a contributory factor to this kind of goal being too commonplace in 9.2 for what its worth.

Some defenders are pushing up just after a long kick and giving the attackers a slight advantage. Its not happening all the time and can be avoided with good defenders, but its a bug all the same and you will see an improvement.

[Dimony]

I've fixed a contributory factor to this kind of goal being too commonplace in 9.2 for what its worth.

Some defenders are pushing up just after a long kick and giving the attackers a slight advantage. Its not happening all the time and can be avoided with good defenders, but its a bug all the same and you will see an improvement.

Any update on an expected availability for the 9.2 update?

[homerjnick]

The best thing I've found to counter this...

Mainly to do with oppo instructions.

GK and both / all Centerbacks - Close Down Always.

All Strikers and any attacking midfielders - Tight Marking Always, Close down always. It really seems to have limited the issue.

I hate having to do that for every match though....

[Wakers]

You lot make me laugh.

First it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's.

Then it was goals scored as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

Then it was chances created as a result of long balls from GK's and DEF's.

Something that I have enountered far more than this, is my Ass Man reporting that a large % of kicks/clearances from my GK are not reaching their intended targets, 100% of my games so far this season, (despite quick throw to DL and passing distance set to minimum.

A thread reporting this is already in the bugs forum.

Mickyboy (testing team), does acknowledge that this is a known issue and is under review.

He also asks for more example of this. Why don't some of you post in there and give him the evidence he is looking for?

Because its already been logged, I did this a couple of weeks ago, as I said earlier, if you would actually read.

[Dicko99]

I've fixed a contributory factor to this kind of goal being too commonplace in 9.2 for what its worth.

Some defenders are pushing up just after a long kick and giving the attackers a slight advantage. Its not happening all the time and can be avoided with good defenders, but its a bug all the same and you will see an improvement.

what about the long shots?

[anagain]

I've fixed a contributory factor to this kind of goal being too commonplace in 9.2 for what its worth.

Some defenders are pushing up just after a long kick and giving the attackers a slight advantage. Its not happening all the time and can be avoided with good defenders, but its a bug all the same and you will see an improvement.

Thanks, Paul C. That's good to know.

I wouldn't say the advantage is slight from what I've seen though. I assume it is going to be accentuated if you are playing a higher division side with much better players too. Such would have been the case with me playing Brighton.

I'm not going to push SI to release the patch now, now, now; but how about 9.1b, or soemthing? Just a minor update to fix this.

[PaulC]

We havent set a date for 9.2 yet, but it should be before Xmas depending on how testing goes.

Regarding long shots, assuming you mean strikers taking them too liberally, we don't have it as a high priority bug at the moment. In fact until proven otherwise we have it down as a tactical issue. Having said that, some changes have been made in 9.2 that could in theory mean less long shots from strikers, at least. Always worth checking your players' PPM's if this issue is problematic for you, and also worth watching a couple of games in full to get a better idea of why other options arent being used.

[anagain]

also worth watching a couple of games in full to get a better idea of why other options arent being used.

Does it really help to watch a full match? I never really have done due to the time it takes. It takes me long enough to run through a game as it is. I doubt I'd get through more than 2 or 3 seasons a year if I watched every match of full detail...not that anyone's suggesting every match.

Does it show highlights of the match, but a lot more, or the actual whole match? Is it a 90 minutes thing?

I'm scared I might get settled on full matches and rarely see out a season.

[Wakers]

We havent set a date for 9.2 yet, but it should be before Xmas depending on how testing goes.

Regarding long shots, assuming you mean strikers taking them too liberally, we don't have it as a high priority bug at the moment. In fact until proven otherwise we have it down as a tactical issue. Having said that, some changes have been made in 9.2 that could in theory mean less long shots from strikers, at least. Always worth checking your players' PPM's if this issue is problematic for you, and also worth watching a couple of games in full to get a better idea of why other options arent being used.

What about defenders taking long shots?

Surely if you have your tactics set up so that its restricting the ai defenders from doing anything other than shooting from 30 yards, you shouldn't be punished for it by seeing players with 5 long shots scoring wonder goals?

[Jonfun1980]

We havent set a date for 9.2 yet, but it should be before Xmas depending on how testing goes.

Regarding long shots, assuming you mean strikers taking them too liberally, we don't have it as a high priority bug at the moment. In fact until proven otherwise we have it down as a tactical issue. Having said that, some changes have been made in 9.2 that could in theory mean less long shots from strikers, at least. Always worth checking your players' PPM's if this issue is problematic for you, and also worth watching a couple of games in full to get a better idea of why other options arent being used.

I think you should put a sticky up saying you hope to get the patch out before x-mas and maybe a progress of what as been fixed. It will stop so many we need a patch threads starting.

[anagain]

Well I played my Brighton game and I set my team to close down their goalies and defence. It worked a treat. I still lost, 1-0 to a complete defensive faux pas, but there was only one memorable ball over the top. That was from a defender (I think) and my sweeper come defender cut it out fine.

So I can clarify that the 'closing down opposition keeper' workaround does help.

It kind of makes sense to close down their defence and keeper from an attacking point of view anyway. If I had a better tactical knowledge I probably would have done it.

[Wakers]

But still, some people are ignoring the fact that you can't stop your own goalkeeper from doing this.

[sirdez24]

In the lower leagues it tires out your attackers much quicker too.

[Kritik]

I've fixed a contributory factor to this kind of goal being too commonplace in 9.2 for what its worth.

Some defenders are pushing up just after a long kick and giving the attackers a slight advantage. Its not happening all the time and can be avoided with good defenders, but its a bug all the same and you will see an improvement.

WOW, SI admitted it's a bug and didn't say it's your tactics

maybe the next step is to admit there is a problem with strikers not scoring/getting low ratings.

[wwfan]

WOW, SI admitted it's a bug and didn't say it's your tactics

maybe the next step is to admit there is a problem with strikers not scoring/getting low ratings.

No. That is tactical. The long kick bug happens to everybody although it is much more common at lower levels. Forwards not scoring only happens to some people. Personally, I believe they should be slightly more likely to score on one on ones and long shots should be slightly toned down, but neither are massive OMG!!11!! game killers.

[Kritik]

ok, so how come this issue didnt exist in previous versions ? What is the thinking behind making it this way ? To **** people off, to make the game harder ?

[wwfan]

ok, so how come this issue didnt exist in previous versions ? What is the thinking behind making it this way ? To **** people off, to make the game harder ?

It did if you weren't using a heavily arrowed formation that enabled the FC to unrealistically find space. For those of us that didn't employ multiple arrows (or even the farrowed MC/AMC to FC) it is a simple step forward. Defending is better which requires better build up play (the step forward), but it is more than possible to get the FCs to score and get high ratings.

Note, I'm not suggestign that arrowed formations were in any way cheating, just that if you relied on them you need time to adjust to the new way of doing things. As I stated before, I do believe a slight tweak is needed as well, but not a mjaor one.

[aka.arrogantio]

Might the tendency for keepers to always kick long even when encouraged to se short or mixed distribution be a contributory factor in too many long balls over the top?

My initial impressions were that "strikers not scoring" was down as much to reduced striker intelligence/movement (fewer runs into channels etc) as improved defensive intelligence. Either way it's better to have strikers having fewer chances and more of them coming from realistic opportunities such as crosses from the byline rather than strikers repeatedly finding far too much space. Funnily enough there weren't many people complaining "My star striker has an average rating of over 8 and scores a goal a game... sort it out SI" in previous versions.

[A Loyal Shot]

Try playing with a sweeper or a sweeper keeper (the latter is explained in the tactics guide on the tactics forum). I've scored some goals from that kind of ball but only when my number two has been in. I'm not sure it is a bug. Ruiz (my second choice keeper who plays that ball) might just have better vision and be able to see the break on when the opponents defence is pushed up high.

[Wakers]

Try playing with a sweeper or a sweeper keeper (the latter is explained in the tactics guide on the tactics forum). I've scored some goals from that kind of ball but only when my number two has been in. I'm not sure it is a bug. Ruiz (my second choice keeper who plays that ball) might just have better vision and be able to see the break on when the opponents defence is pushed up high.

Goalkeepers getting over 10 assists a season isn't a bug?

Why is everyone ignoring it when your own keeper does it?

SI Blinkers anyone?

[Johnny van Axeldongen]

We havent set a date for 9.2 yet, but it should be before Xmas depending on how testing goes.

Schoolboy error! God help us all if it's not; this forum will light up like a Christmas tree!

[MrPompey]

Zonal marking - look at your defenders pace and their strikers pace. If yours are slow and theirs fast then they have a great tactic. Also try centrebacks on tactics pointing arrows backwards

[Dicko99]

We havent set a date for 9.2 yet, but it should be before Xmas depending on how testing goes.

Regarding long shots, assuming you mean strikers taking them too liberally, we don't have it as a high priority bug at the moment. In fact until proven otherwise we have it down as a tactical issue. Having said that, some changes have been made in 9.2 that could in theory mean less long shots from strikers, at least. Always worth checking your players' PPM's if this issue is problematic for you, and also worth watching a couple of games in full to get a better idea of why other options arent being used.

Paul, Not so much strikers taking long shots its DEFENDERS and MIDFIELDERS always shotting from distance (for myself and AI opposition) with a high ratio going in. thank you for reply anyway.

[Wakers]

Zonal marking - look at your defenders pace and their strikers pace. If yours are slow and theirs fast then they have a great tactic. Also try centrebacks on tactics pointing arrows backwards

Another one ignoring your own goalkeeper - the problem works both ways ffs, stop posting about zonal marking and other rubbish.

[ambolt]

We havent set a date for 9.2 yet, but it should be before Xmas depending on how testing goes.

Great news, but do you know if there might be any "smaller" patches out before that, to fix showstopper bugs like the one making it impossible to run a sensible network game if one user is on a PC and the other one's on a Mac? As there's already a 9.1.1 patch out for the Mac, we wouldn't mind a 9.1.2 for this one.

[MrPompey]

Another one ignoring your own goalkeeper - the problem works both ways ffs, stop posting about zonal marking and other rubbish.

What the hell are you on?

Read the original thread title and then tell me why tactics for defenders on the receiving end of the opposing goalkeeprs ball over the top isn't relevant?

Why oh why do we get trolls on these board making statements like these to threads they haven't raised themselves

Amazing

[Wakers]

What the hell are you on?

Read the original thread title and then tell me why tactics for defenders on the receiving end of the opposing goalkeeprs ball over the top isn't relevant?

Why oh why do we get trolls on these board making statements like these to threads they haven't raised themselves

Amazing

Actually, I have raised this issue. Its just that someone else brought up your own goalkeeper doing it (as it is related, believe it or not) and then people say "well put your defenders on zonal marking" when it has nothing to do with it.

Anything else you want me to "troll" about?

Please point out where i said it wasn't relevant. My posts have been against those that say "its just a tactics issue" and dismiss it.

[MrPompey]

Another one ignoring your own goalkeeper - the problem works both ways ffs, stop posting about zonal marking and other rubbish.

Actually, I have raised this issue. Its just that someone else brought up your own goalkeeper doing it (as it is related, believe it or not) and then people say "well put your defenders on zonal marking" when it has nothing to do with it.

Anything else you want me to "troll" about?

Please point out where i said it wasn't relevant. My posts have been against those that say "its just a tactics issue" and dismiss it.

I didn't say it was a tactics issue!!! I actually responded to the OP's request for help to counter the GK's ball over the top e.g. I was attempting to assist the OP.

The comment you posted "the problem works both ways ffs, stop posting about zonal marking and other rubbish" is going rub people up the wrong way. Who are you tell me what to post and what not to post, its not even your thread? Perhaps you'd like to apologise so we don't hijack this thread anymore and can get back to resolving the problem.

It does seem like a bug but until its patched we need to be inventive to try to counter it in the meantime. Tactics appears to be the only option, hence my tactical suggestion

[Wakers]

I didn't say it was a tactics issue!!! I actually responded to the OP's request for help to counter the GK's ball over the top e.g. I was attempting to assist the OP.

The comment you posted "the problem works both ways ffs, stop posting about zonal marking and other rubbish" is going rub people up the wrong way. Who are you tell me what to post and what not to post, its not even your thread? Perhaps you'd like to apologise so we don't hijack this thread anymore and can get back to resolving the problem.

It does seem like a bug but until its patched we need to be inventive to try to counter it in the meantime. Tactics appears to be the only option, hence my tactical suggestion

Not going to apologise to someone who complains about being told what to post and then promptly tells someone to stop posting.

[MrPompey]

Not going to apologise to someone who complains about being told what to post and then promptly tells someone to stop posting.

LOL - It was for the benefit of the original poster so the thread could get back to the subject matter

If you care to read what I posted it was a suggestion. Perhaps re-read the posts and maybe you'll see see why I've reacted the way I did?

[anagain]

Let's not turn this into a personal argument.

[MrPompey]

Let's not turn this into a personal argument.

Agreed. I just wish some people would read the posts properly before they respond

[hoopsta]

i am giving up ive just lost 7 on the trot all from being at least 1-0 up and even 3-0 during one game and all i do is concede from long balls by the keeper or full backs...

it is totally ruining the game and anyone that says it doesnt is wrong as my house has just started playing and 4 hours in he has noticed the exact same thing

[Wakers]

Just as an experiment on this - i messed around with one of the saved game editors and gave all my players jumping 20. My goalkeeper got 7 assists in 4 games and they didn't get a ball over the top once

@ mrpompey - i suggest you also read through the thread. It might help you out a bit.

[anagain]

i am giving up ive just lost 7 on the trot all from being at least 1-0 up and even 3-0 during one game and all i do is concede from long balls by the keeper or full backs...

it is totally ruining the game and anyone that says it doesnt is wrong as my house has just started playing and 4 hours in he has noticed the exact same thing

Just set their keeper and defenders to be closed down always. It worked for me.

Admittedly I have only played two matches since, but I barely saw the long ball in either. I lost both but the goals were all great play by the opposition or my idiotic and clumsy defenders.

[MrPompey]

Let's not turn this into a personal argument.

Just as an experiment on this - i messed around with one of the saved game editors and gave all my players jumping 20. My goalkeeper got 7 assists in 4 games and they didn't get a ball over the top once

@ mrpompey - i suggest you also read through the thread. It might help you out a bit.

What tactics did you have for your GK in terms passing and how did this affect your goal scoring chances? Why not take a saved position and run this test over 3 or 4 games and repeat with different variances to test how best to defend against it e.g.:

1) Center backs have average pace and high juimping

2) Center backs have high pace and high jumping

3) Centre backs have high pace and low jumping

4) 2 above plus zonal marking

5) 2 above with man to man marking

Would make for intersting reading as many FM09 manager's are seeing this issue and would be interested in how to counter pending a future patch fix

The second bit - Yep I have. The OP asked for suggestions of how to combat the long ball from the GK. Without mentioning if this was a bug or not I offered a tactical suggestion which you took great offence to. I suspect you thought I was coining the phrase "its your tactics" which you'll see it wasn't. I'm aware its a bug and this was a tactical suggestion to combat it. If we can't agree, then agree to disagree, life's to short to worry about this mate

[Wakers]

I would do that if i had more time. Sadly I have too much to do to test SI's game for them properly.

[Jimbokav1971]

Wakers. I have a little more time so I am trying something.

So far 6 clean sheets in 8 games.

[MrPompey]

I would do that if i had more time. Sadly I have too much to do to test SI's game for them properly.

I would but I work away in London mid-week so haven't got my FM09. I'm actually a software test manager for an international IT consultancy.

I've done beta test for SI before and Ive even proof read their manuals in the past for 2 or 3 editions for Marc Duffy.

I think sometimes the beta testing, in addition to their normal selection of people, should be given to a variety of different people e.g. tacticians, pick-up and play players, staticions etc so they they get a more varied response form different types

The problem I always feel is not necessarily the testing but:

a) the severity rating of defects and turnaround times

b) time allowed between demo and full release. lets face it so many issues were reported in the demo but SI had no / little time to fix them before going gold

c) simple attention to detail e.g. playing the Charity Shield the team named first are deemed at home and get game engine home advantage, the pitch looked naff when weknow Wembley for a final would have a pristine pitch in August, just like all the other grounds who you play away friendlies at

No doubt a balance between fixing issues and commercial reality. Sometimes its not a case of making a perfect product, but making a product thats imperfect but good enough to sell. I don't mean to undermine what SI do.

I've volunteered numerous times over numerous editions to understand more the dev and test processes. I've been in commercial software testing for a very longtime. I've bought every edition since the good old CM days when it first came out on the Amiga

Its a no-win situation for SI because if its not 100% then they will get bad feedback. In addition this years security protection has caused many people problems before they even played the game.

As i said before, if we can fnd a tacical solution before a patch we'll be happier with the game

[MrPompey]

Wakers. I have a little more time so I am trying something.

So far 6 clean sheets in 8 games.

Be sure to post your test results, this could be interesting

[hoopsta]

its not only the ball over the top thats a problem its the whole match engine....players doing stupid things Eg: my cf is 20 yards out with a chance for a shot and decides he wants to goto the corner flag for a dance...players not staying in there posistion ...eg my Lb keeps appearing on the right and opposing team will score from an attack down the left...my players always blasting the ball over the bar no matter how far out they are and opposing team will always make keeper work...my players cant seem to pass to each or getting knocked off the ball all the time

a very frustrated manager who has lost interest in the game already