i bet nobody can asnwer this with certainty

after seeing various threads with the 39th game, where 2 teams have identical points, goal dif and goals for, and people were saying it goes to a play-off and one man said it didnt in his game for a champions league spot (possibly lying)

anyway my question is, and its completely hypothetical, but what if man utd, chelsea and arsenal all finished with equal everything. what way would a play-off work then, or would it be a game of rock/paper/scissors??

after seeing various threads with the 39th game, where 2 teams have identical points, goal dif and goals for, and people were saying it goes to a play-off and one man said it didnt in his game for a champions league spot (possibly lying)

anyway my question is, and its completely hypothetical, but what if man utd, chelsea and arsenal all finished with equal everything. what way would a play-off work then, or would it be a game of rock/paper/scissors??

The chances of 2 teams having identical records is small, never mind 3 teams.

i doubt it would go to a play off it would be on head to head or alphabetical order ?

i know the chances are ridiculously slim, and i mean if head to head records were identical what would happen. is their an official ruling the premier league have on such an occurence does anyone know?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jakey_q:

i doubt it would go to a play off it would be on head to head or alphabetical order ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wouldnt go to alphabetical order, thatwouldgive an unfair advantage to teams which names start with A. It wouldbe a race, whoever can re-name their club A!

It would go to head-to-head after goals scored, then i dont know what would happen if there was 3 teams all the same TBH!

A Mini league would be created in which each team played all the others tied with it.

Lets say for example...

Chelsea Played 2, won 2, lost 0, drew 0 6pts

Man U played 2, won 1, Lost 1, drew 0 3 pts

Arsenal played 2, won 0, lost 2, drew 0 0pts

If somehow two of the teams or all still had the same points then goal difference... then replay the mini league.

OR

it couls just go down to how each team performed against its tied rival...

If Man united beat both teams but still finished with the same points as them they would go through.

How do u know that doyle? ( not saying that your wrong) just is it a guess or whats your source?

IRL there are a number of areas where the teams can be seperated if it gets to it. I believe after head-to-head records, its yellow cards, and then overall discipline record (in keeping with the rules of the EUFA fair play league), and can go on down to things like number of corners. If the teams can't be separated it is decided on a drawing of straws.

However, if such a situtation would arise then a play-off league would be the way it was dealt with to ensure relative fairness (it's not that fair, because the overall winner is the team who had the best form in the last few games).

You can be sure that the FA or the EPL will have a tie break rule down to the last possibility in their rules.

I think Geoff is right, but... I think it goes as far as discipline.

For eg. Points, GD, Goals F, Goals A, Head-to-Head, yellow cards/ discipline and then it goes to a coin toss.

Its not relevant to the original question, but Major League Baseball has an interesting tie-breaker for the three-way-tie case.

They go to a playoff, as you might expect, but instead of doing a mini-league as Doyle outlines, only two games are played, single-elimination, such that you get:

A at (the winner of B at C)

Allocation to A, B, or C is done by drawing straws: the winner gets to choose whether they want to be A, B, or C. Obviously, B is a poor choice, but the question "Would you rather be away for one game, or at home but have to win two" has made for plenty of entertaining pub conversations!

to be honest with the amount of money and how competetive todays game is that it could be settled by a couple of yellow cards or a coin toss!! imagine fergie losing the title on tevez taking off a shirt after scoring

According to the Rules of the Premier League, if at the end of the season two or more Clubs are equal on Points, Goal Difference and Goals Scored, and their league position must be determined for Championship, Relegation and Qualification for other competitions, then:

"the Clubs concerned shall play off one or more deciding League Matches on neutral grounds, the format, timing and venue of which shall be determined by the board" (Page 22 of the EPL Handbook PDF).

Yellow cards, coin tosses and Head to Head don't apply.

So the certain answer is that there would be a play off series. But the actual format of it won't be decided until it happens.

It would go:

Points

Goal Difference

Head-to-Head Results

Goals Scored (highest wins)

Goals Conceded (lowest wins)

Games Won

Games Lost

Home Games Won

Away Games Won

If, in a million to one chance, all of those were equal (and head-to-head results works like an aggregrate game including away goals, so the chances of not being able to split them using this is VERY slim), then the Premier League would announce their way of settling things.

I would assume it'd be a mini-league, all played at neutral grounds (which would be an amazing money spinner for the FA), but no announcement has been made because that situation has never happened.

There would be 3 games on neutral venues, with potentially a final between the top 2 if they are equal going to extra time and penalties...

would it go to diciplinary record for that season ?

Surely after a while, someone would give up on this and give the top 2/3 join recognition as title winners!

perhaps itll come down to school boy rules....heads or tails?

tanks cavenagh!

Teams receive three points for a win and one point for a draw.

The bottom three teams will be automatically relegated to Championship.

If two or more teams finish level on points the team with the better goal difference will finish higher.

If two or more teams have the same points and the same goal difference, the team which has scored the higher number of goals will finish higher.

If two or more teams finish level on points, goal difference and goals scored, and the championship, a relegation place or European qualification is at stake, they will then play off to decide who finishes higher

If two or more teams are level before the end of the season on points, goal difference and goals scored, then alphabetical order will determine the team finishing higher

forgot to add that bit, its from the rule book, so yes i can answer with certainty.

I can answer this question with certainty.

I certainly can't answer this question

No, but really, it goes down to bookings and the fair play league.

it cant be yellow cards, the same referees arent used for every game.i know you could say the same about goalsbut most of he time thyre defeinate, the referee usually lets things go if he can.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

If two or more teams are level before the end of the season on points, goal difference and goals scored, then alphabetical order will determine the team finishing higher

forgot to add that bit, its from the rule book, so yes i can answer with certainty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rubbish.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Play-offs

31. If at the end of the Season either the League Champions or the Clubs to be relegated or the question

of qualification for other competitions cannot be determined because 2 or more Clubs are equal on

points, goal difference and goals scored, the Clubs concerned shall play off one or more deciding

League Matches on neutral grounds, the format, timing and venue of which shall be determined by

the Board. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the official Premier League handbook

are you blind read the post before if it is deciding any thing major, playoff if not alphabetical.

so quick trying to score points by making someone look you didnt open your eyes

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

are you blind read the post before if it is deciding any thing major, playoff if not alphabetical.

so quick trying to score points by making someone look you didnt open your eyes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I'm not blind thanks, no need for that.

Yours mentions before the end of the season, then says 'finishing' - slight contradiction

Subject to Rule B.31, if any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points, have the same

goal difference and have scored the same number of goals in League Matches in that Season they

shall be deemed to occupy the same position in the table.

i meant to put both of them in, they ocuppy the same position but alphabetical with who above and whose below.yellow cards play no part

"Subject to Rule B.31"

I posted B.31...

I can say with certainty, that it is settled with a thumb war.

You can guarantee that if there were inseparable teams IRL there would be a play-off game or mini-league because that's the way that the EPL could make most money out of it. It makes far more sense for them to play a game at Wembley to decide the title because it would be almost the same as having another FA Cup final. I'm only surprised they haven't already put the idea of end of season play-offs out there in the style of American sports or the Super League.

You can guarantee that if there were inseparable teams IRL there would be a play-off game or mini-league because that's the way that the EPL could make most money out of it. It makes far more sense for them to play a game at Wembley to decide the title because it would be almost the same as having another FA Cup final. I'm only surprised they haven't already put the idea of end of season play-offs out there in the style of American sports or the Super League.

haha you are all noobs the answer is where they are ranked in europe if arsenal are 5th and chelsea are 3rd and man u are 2nd then it will end up man 1st chelsea 2nd and arsenal 3rd

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by the best at fm 2008:

haha you are all noobs the answer is where they are ranked in europe if arsenal are 5th and chelsea are 3rd and man u are 2nd then it will end up man 1st chelsea 2nd and arsenal 3rd </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rubbish.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds:

"Subject to Rule B.31"

I posted B.31... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

btw i wasnt saying if it decides a play off or something they occupy the place, just if its mid table. and im guessing prize money is split evenly

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds:

"Subject to Rule B.31"

I posted B.31... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

btw i wasnt saying if it decides a play off or something they occupy the place, just if its mid table. and im guessing prize money is split evenly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alphabetical order is only used mid-season, not to decide positions at the end of the season - as this would be unfair. Yeah, I would assume the prize money is split evenly, or that they would both receive the higher amount.

It wouldn't be alphabetical, without reading the whole of the thread I'd assume it'd follow the Italian leagues. This would mean going to a 3 way playoff 'league'. Each team plays twice against the others and the winner overall comes higher in the league

I assume all this stuff would also come into play if records between 3 teams were not all identical, but were in the follwojng kind of situation:

Team A bt Team B, Team B bt Team C, Team C bt Team A

on head to head records. In that case, even if one team won 5-0 and the others were just 1-0's or whatever you still couldn't split 3 teams based on head to head record.

i just meant alphabetical purely cosmetically like

7 aston villa

7 newcastle

ITS 2 DO WITH COEFFENCICS OR SOMETHING IT THERE PLACE IN EUROPE AND ITS NOT RUBBISH SCOTTY WALDS ITS JUST UR A DUMBASS WHO DONT NO WHAT HE IS TALKING BOUT SO UP URS M8

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by the best at fm 2008:

ITS 2 DO WITH COEFFENCICS OR SOMETHING IT THERE PLACE IN EUROPE AND ITS NOT RUBBISH SCOTTY WALDS ITS JUST UR A DUMBASS WHO DONT NO WHAT HE IS TALKING BOUT SO UP URS M8 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why should we take what you say as being the truth, when a) you use all capitals, b) use text speak, c) refer to no sources and d) give out abuse?

Co-efficients only apply in the Champions League and UEFA Cup group standings, and not the Premier League.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by Scotty Walds:-

Why should we take what you say as being the truth </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at his screen name. How could you not believe him?!?

I would hope they just give the league to Manchester United. It's the smart thing to do.

they only go for a play off game if relegation, promotion, the title or continental qualification are at stake, according to fa rules if none of those are at stake i.e. 9th and 10th place then the 2 clubs are deemed to have occupied the same place in the table.

its co-efficentis (i think thats hoe you spell it not sure tho) it happend to me i was chelsea and arsenal and i finished with the exact same stats but i won the league due to a 3 year run of winning in europe i would provide a screen shot but i overwrite the save as 2014 got boring

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by the best at fm 2008:

its co-efficentis (i think thats hoe you spell it not sure tho) it happend to me i was chelsea and arsenal and i finished with the exact same stats but i won the league due to a 3 year run of winning in europe i would provide a screen shot but i overwrite the save as 2014 got boring </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure? What were your results between you and Arsenal?

Of course you overwrote the save

I emailed the Premier League, and got the following reply:

"Thank you for your email. Where teams are equal on points, the number of goals scored and goal difference then there will be a play off. The Premier League does not look at the head-to-head record."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D. Doyle:

A Mini league would be created in which each team played all the others tied with it.

Lets say for example...

Chelsea Played 2, won 2, lost 0, drew 0 6pts

Man U played 2, won 1, Lost 1, drew 0 3 pts

Arsenal played 2, won 0, lost 2, drew 0 0pts

If somehow two of the teams or all still had the same points then goal difference... then replay the mini league.

OR

it couls just go down to how each team performed against its tied rival...

If Man united beat both teams but still finished with the same points as them they would go through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would seriously doubt that a mini league would be created. i am sure it is alpabetical as the last resort.

This has happened with teams lower down the league where records are identical - they go to alpabetical order.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds:

I emailed the Premier League, and got the following reply:

"Thank you for your email. Where teams are equal on points, the number of goals scored and goal difference then there will be a play off. The Premier League does not look at the head-to-head record."

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok now that settles it.. Thanks Scotty Walds

I'd be quite happy to go for the alphabetical rule, as long as it wasn't applied in reverse order!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D. Doyle:

OR

it couls just go down to how each team performed against its tied rival...

If Man united beat both teams but still finished with the same points as them they would go through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would happen like that not a could.