People dont want 3d engine because they have no faith in si

ive been reading what people think about 3d match engine being implemented in fm

at first i thought people were just being difficult

and saying they dont want it just for the sake of it

but more and more

it seems that people keeping on saying they dont want it

because of stuff like

'its gonna be too buggy'

'they want it to be perfect first'

'si cant even get a 2d engine right'

etc

i think its quite weird that people have no faith in SI for creating a 3d match engine

after they have created such a good game...

any replies???

ive been reading what people think about 3d match engine being implemented in fm

at first i thought people were just being difficult

and saying they dont want it just for the sake of it

but more and more

it seems that people keeping on saying they dont want it

because of stuff like

'its gonna be too buggy'

'they want it to be perfect first'

'si cant even get a 2d engine right'

etc

i think its quite weird that people have no faith in SI for creating a 3d match engine

after they have created such a good game...

any replies???

I don't think it's cause they have no faith i think it's cause it's like plastic surgery. POINTLESS!

Its not that we don't have faith in SI, I think its more to do with technology generally not being advanced enough to pull it off to standards high enough to compliment the game. There hasn't been a single 3D football match engine I've ever enjoyed seeing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kain:

Its not that we don't have faith in SI, I think its more to do with technology generally not being advanced enough to pull it off to standards high enough to compliment the game. There hasn't been a single 3D football match engine I've ever enjoyed seeing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Technology isnt the issue- even consoles can display a realistic game of football, so the processing power is certainly there.

I would love a 3D engine...as long as it was optional. If it sucks, then back to my blobs.

I have 100% faith in SI or I wouldn't buy their products.

The reason that I, and probably many others, don't want a 3D engine is primarily not that it's pointless, but the fact that it's not worth buying a new computer potentially just to be able to use an arguably unneccessary feature.

In economics terms, it's all about the opportunity cost.

It was more to do with it needing so many different, um.. graphics (I know that's the wrong word, can't think of the one I want) to avoid it looking repetitive and limited, like every other 3D engine I've seen out there. Players can pass/turn/go on runs with more than 2-3 different ways, but that doesn't come across on the games I've seen. I would imagine the amount of memory/processing power etc. needed to be able to cope with that would be a fair bit more than the current standard.

I could be wrong though, I confess to not really knowing a lot about these things.

why do people keep on saying it will be repetitive

i cant see how upgrading from 2d to 3d will make it more repetitive

explain please...

if si are going to ever do a 3d match engine it has to be good. now i like the 2d match engine we have, i dont want si to try a 3d engine and it look ****. to do a 3d the graphics and pictures must at a very good standard, and frankly this isnt important for the game we have.

In 2d, it doesn't really come across whether a player is always passing in the same style, using the same part of his foot, if tackles always look exactly the same, because they're just dots. 3d would take a lot more work.

Well it's an intresting point. And i have to admit that indeed i rather have an 2D-engine in which SI has some expertise, than a brand new 3D engine. I had FIFAM2007 and there the 3d engine just sucked for 500%. It was annoying, unrealistic, heavy for your processor and graphical card. 3D engine is too much work for sometingh that isn't worth all the trouble

The match engine is 3D already.

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it? Really? Do you watch football on the TV or do you listen to it on the radio because its good enough?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jakobx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it? Really? Do you watch football on the TV or do you listen to it on the radio because its good enough? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I listen to it on the radio, because you can do other things at the same time, and the commentators aren't as bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jakobx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it? Really? Do you watch football on the TV or do you listen to it on the radio because its good enough? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not the same situation.

Choosing between TV and radio is a free, effortless choice.

Choosing between a 2D and 3D engine in FM could mean a boat-load of extra work on SI's part. And us dealing with the always sloppy beginning stages of a new system.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jakobx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it? Really? Do you watch football on the TV or do you listen to it on the radio because its good enough? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I watch football and other sports on the internet.

I don't want a 3D engine because there will be problems and will take a lot of time to implement into the game, when they could be refining old features (like board confidence), and adding some minor new features for FM09.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kain:

It was more to do with it needing so many different, um.. graphics (I know that's the wrong word, can't think of the one I want) to avoid it looking repetitive and limited, like every other 3D engine I've seen out there. Players can pass/turn/go on runs with more than 2-3 different ways, but that doesn't come across on the games I've seen. I would imagine the amount of memory/processing power etc. needed to be able to cope with that would be a fair bit more than the current standard.

I could be wrong though, I confess to not really knowing a lot about these things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Variation is down to programming not memory or processing power.

The limit is genuinely the developers- as even the Fifa and Pro Evo 3D engines will scale to run on even low end 3D hardware.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by disasterd:

why do people keep on saying it will be repetitive

i cant see how upgrading from 2d to 3d will make it more repetitive

explain please... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try watching the Fifa Manager match engine- imo its pretty good, and its hard to explain but play a few games and you will realise what people mean.

Saying that the repetition is certainly not down to technological limits, just developers not having unlimited time to make similar situations or movements different enough to avoid the feeling of repetition.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kain:

In 2d, it doesn't really come across whether a player is always passing in the same style, using the same part of his foot, if tackles always look exactly the same, because they're just dots. 3d would take a lot more work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats correct, but its nothing to do with current technology being inadequate for the task- which is the oft used reason for 3D being a non-starter.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

I had FIFAM2007 and there the 3d engine just sucked for 500%. It was annoying, unrealistic, heavy for your processor and graphical card. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The irony in here is that FIFA Manager is actually much, much easier on your CPU than Football Manager. Which takes a crapload of processing power (or either patience) if you start it with a database of bigger size.

Still, I don't want to join this debate. I like FMs match engine. Just saying.

Actually, I agree no I think about it. I DONT have faith that SI would get it right, look at the confidence feature.

If they began making it now, Id like to see them get it right and THEN introduce it.

I can only imagine how much angrier I'd be at the game if I saw my players making stupid non-sensical mistakes in 3d like running away from the ball or everyone standing stock still for 3 seconds for no reason.

That's why I don't support the addition of a 3d match engine.

3D would be class watching the bad tackles and stuff

Pro Evo: arguably the best 3D match engine

FM: no doubt the best football manager game

Does anybody think these two may cooperate sometime in the future to bring us the best FM with 3D match engine?

I will be thrilled to see that happen

If not a true 3d engine Id be happy with a quality audio engine. ie a geniune full audio commentary. Something done right, not just a few lines audio repeated endlessly.

Would be a lot less work than making a 3d engine worthy of this game but would add a whole new level of realism to it.

Would also go a ways to alliviating the complaint that you cant really tell whats happening ... and if your focused on watching the ball you cant be be readign the text at the same time. Good audio commentary would solve both.

Myros

I'd be interested in the age split between the for and against camps. I'd expect a healthy U21=for and +21=against or ambivilent.

Not a dig at kids, I hasten to add, but there are a lot of youngsters on the forums posting mock-ups of what they'd like the game to look like (perhaps hoping SI offer them a job, perhaps not).

Graphics on FM match engines have been almost pointless since it started. The 2-D engine was a massive step forward but was never intended to be part of the gameplay. It helps you analyse movement etc (when it works), and media interraction - such as the flawed offside questions - merely came out of that.

For me, a 3D match engine would be little more than window dressing, and yes it would become repetitive on today's machines (heck, I found Pro-Evo repetitive after a month of playing). In a world where many gamers play FM, Pro Evo, Fifa Street, on many different platforms, it's understandable that a lot of them would want better visuals. But FM is about strategy, it's about building and nurturing a team, and although it's not totally realistic (and never will be) it's still more important to get the strategy part of the game right before evolving the "look".

A 3D match engine would be nice, yes, if it worked and didn't slow the machine down too much, but bear in mind how much strain FM08 puts on machines pre-2006, it definitely WOULD slow machines down.

Bottom line: it's not necessary in the slightest, but IF it worked I'd be happy to have it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jakobx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it? Really? Do you watch football on the TV or do you listen to it on the radio because its good enough? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I listen to the radio. All the matches on the TV are Big 4 anyway and I have no interest in that.

Radio commentary is often very, very good anyway.

Why do you feel you need 3d graphics on FM? Answer honestly.

in answer to the previous guy, im 16 and i think its a load of **** to have a 3D match engine. Audio commentary? forget it, it would be repetitive and full of problems.

the only thing they COULD do is tilt the 2D pitch at a slight angle and make the players a more "taller" shape. Now we can see the real height of the ball in relation to the players. ATM you cant tell whether the ball is going over the goal or into the bottom corner. (this would technically make it 3D but we could keep the great 2D engine thats working great)

1) I'm a pretty casual FM player. I minimise quite often to do otehr stuff. A 3d engine will surely slow this down.

2) name a 3d engine that does not have bugs

3) 2d is perfectly fine. I can see what my players do right and wrong. that's all I use it for

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alexanqi:

Pro Evo: arguably the best 3D match engine

FM: no doubt the best football manager game

Does anybody think these two may cooperate sometime in the future to bring us the best FM with 3D match engine?

I will be thrilled to see that happen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch an AI v AI match on Pro Evo and you we see just how poor the Pro Evo match engine is at replicating a realistic game of football. It might be the best 3D engine out there at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's any good at producing realistic football matches.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alexanqi:

Pro Evo: arguably the best 3D match engine

FM: no doubt the best football manager game

Does anybody think these two may cooperate sometime in the future to bring us the best FM with 3D match engine?

I will be thrilled to see that happen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pro Evo is made by Konami.

FM is published by Sega.

KOnami won't allow Sega/SI the rights for the Japanese league so why would there be any prospect of the two cooperating to improve FM?

Why would any maker of a football sim game work with SI/Sega to improve the match engine on a football management sim? The only thing FM has to offer is the management part and no football sim is going to need that.

The only way FM would ever gain a 3d engine is if SI made it themselves. Whether that is necessary seems to be a subjective point of view. Pluses seem to be coming from the newer, younger crowd as the norm; perhaps people who commonly play games like Pro Evo.

I would expect that may who have been playing FM for years, and stick to it as opposed to Pro Evo etc, are more than happy with a 2d engine.

FMs claim to fame has never been luxurious graphics to compete favourably with the football sims. It has been that FM is the leading reproduction of realistic football management. The stats are the most up to date and accurate and the world is the most realistically modeled.

The game doesn't need to look amazing because it plays amazing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Pluses seem to be coming from the newer, younger crowd as the norm; perhaps people who commonly play games like Pro Evo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know the age of the posters? Or are you just guessing?

I think saying that you dont want it because FM isn't about graphics is, quite frankly, stupid. What would better graphics hurt?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 2) name a 3d engine that does not have bugs </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Name a 2D engine that doesnt have bugs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">How do you know the age of the posters? Or are you just guessing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a general impression that this poster, and I, seem to get. So it's part guesswork, part life experience. I'm sure there ARE youngsters who agree it's silly and some older chaps who'd like it, but this 3D thing, and some of the dafter ideas on here, seem to stem from a lack of understanding about the nature and limitations of computing (such as expecting perfection on one of the most complicated games on the market). Not that this 3D thing is a BAD idea; it's simply not adding anything to the game. At least not yet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> What would better graphics hurt? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any pre-2006 computer's performance.

My sanity, wading through the million "bug" and abusive comments on these forums from people who think it should be better than it is - or more commonly, more to their individual taste.

The amount of time programming this will take away from developing the features that people actually NEED in order to play the game.

There are probably others too, but asking "what would they hurt" is the wrong question. "What would they add?" is more relevant and the answer is "a bit of novelty at the start of the game", but would get old very quickly.

A better question is, "How IMPORTANT are better graphics on FM?"

I think most people know the answer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Name a 2D engine that doesnt have bugs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 2D aspect is just a visual representation of the ACTUAL match engine, and one that already slows down many older computers. A 3D one will just eat your RAM like a hungry dog.

And there are hardly any bugs on FM08's engine as it is, just things people "don't like". Folk complain about closing down, long-shots, bad reffing decisions (just like real life), and a lot of other stuff, but most of it is tactics and can be solved in the appropriate forum. Have played my current save to 2013 so far and have yet to find anything I can't resolve with a bit of thought. Is it 100% realistic? No, and never will be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bongo-Bongo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alexanqi:

Pro Evo: arguably the best 3D match engine

FM: no doubt the best football manager game

Does anybody think these two may cooperate sometime in the future to bring us the best FM with 3D match engine?

I will be thrilled to see that happen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch an AI v AI match on Pro Evo and you we see just how poor the Pro Evo match engine is at replicating a realistic game of football. It might be the best 3D engine out there at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's any good at producing realistic football matches. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats down to the AI though- not the technology as many single out as being the reason why 3D cannot be done.

Also remember Pro-evo is designed to play a 8 or 10 minute game and not a full 90, therefore the AI will never play a realistic game with true ebb and flow, otherwise in those few minutes you would never see any goals.

Would be interesting to see what they would come up with if a full 90 was the base design for the Pro-evo engine rather a fraction of 90 minutes.

Regardless of this my faith in SI has been severely dented this year- and the fact that things that should be nailed on such as offside still do not work is unforgivable- as you see players flagged or not flagged seemingly randomly. Ive just beaten Liverpool 2-1 "thanks" to Torres being flagged offside when he had never stepped off and was 5 yards on when he received the ball- when it annoys me when I benefit from it then it is truly bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Name a 2D engine that doesnt have bugs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 2D aspect is just a visual representation of the ACTUAL match engine, and one that already slows down many older computers. A 3D one will just eat your RAM like a hungry dog.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it wont, unless you have an ancient PC.

PC gaming has always been about scalable gaming- therefore the 3D would simply run at lower settings (as you can run Crysis on oldish hardware even though its bleeding edge), or even just stick with the 2D.

Any gamers machine that is struggling with a 2D engine that is now 6 yrs old really has no right to complain, as they are missing the entire point of PC gaming.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

I'd be interested in the age split between the for and against camps. I'd expect a healthy U21=for and +21=against or ambivilent.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seriously doubt it. I am over 30 and i would prefer a 3d engine. Just because you are old doesnt mean you are against progress.

I repeat,

The match engine is 3D already.

I don't mind if they decide to put a 3D engine in, but I feel it would slow things down for no real reason, for that reason I would likely stick with the blobs.

Not to mention even PES/FIFA running on 360 don't come close to having the amount of variation and realism I would like to see in a 3D match engine for FM, so I really doubt FM could achieve what I would expect.

The 2D blobs do the job fine, they move to the right places and your mind feels in the rest.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

Why do you feel you need 3d graphics on FM? Answer honestly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So that i can see whats going on. Im sorry but two blobs overlapping and one of the blobs emerging with the ball doesnt tell me anything about what happened. I want to see where the ball is in 3d, i want to see what moves the players are trying to make and why they fail. In current 2d engine i can not make any good conclusions about the players.

Some of you are mentioning the bugs that would be present. Well..how about SI hires some competent programmers. Other game developers don't seem to have much problems creating NEW games every three years. Im sure SI should be able to make at least substantial upgrades every year. AFAIR i read somewhere that the current match engine is already calculated in full 3d. All that is missing then is replacing this early 80's graphics with technology that is at least from the mid 90's. We dont need crysis level graphics. Something that works even on a five year old computer should be more than enough.

Sorry but if your going to press for fully 3d represented matches then I have to ask, what is the point of graphics from the 90s or early 2000s at the latest?

I can't imagine how graphics of that standard would come across as any better at representing what is happening than the current pitch representation.

SI don't have any problems creating new games every year, so I don't understand why you seem to be suggesting there is a problem creating them. They may not have added the so-called promised land of a fully 3d engine but they have radically increased the management features on hand over a number of years. If they were to turn their back on progressing graphical features over statistical and management features then you have to argue that that would mean a step back on the great progress that FM has made.

Lastly I have to reiterate that FM isn't about looking great. It never has been and doesn't need to be. FIFA and management games like it have that base covered. Of course those such games fail in terms of features and realism. I favour content over beauty. I know many games from the 90s and early 2000s that are so much better than games made these days. They don't look as good but they are better because the game's makers haven't sacrificed story-telling and content improvements over the game looking beautiful. As I have played MMOs more than any other game, bar FM, I will bring up EQ versus Vanguard and WoW. EQ may not have looked as good as the others but is was by far a better game. The best looking games are not always the best games.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I have every faith in SI. I just don't want a 3D engine. I see no point because the current match representation is more than good enough. Why change it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by disasterd:

ive been reading what people think about 3d match engine being implemented in fm

at first i thought people were just being difficult

and saying they dont want it just for the sake of it

but more and more

it seems that people keeping on saying they dont want it

because of stuff like

'its gonna be too buggy'

'they want it to be perfect first'

'si cant even get a 2d engine right'

etc

i think its quite weird that people have no faith in SI for creating a 3d match engine

after they have created such a good game...

any replies??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO its nothing to do with having faith. Its jut not as important as other things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

Lastly I have to reiterate that FM isn't about looking great. It never has been and doesn't need to be. FIFA and management games like it have that base covered. Of course those such games fail in terms of features and realism. I favour content over beauty. I know many games from the 90s and early 2000s that are so much better than games made these days. They don't look as good but they are better because the game's makers haven't sacrificed story-telling and content improvements over the game looking beautiful. As I have played MMOs more than any other game, bar FM, I will bring up EQ versus Vanguard and WoW. EQ may not have looked as good as the others but is was by far a better game. The best looking games are not always the best games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said that any better myself.

currently i dont want a 3d match engine because i dont see that it can be done effectively by anyone yet.

this is nothing against SI. for me it's common sense.

part of what i see the benifits of having a 2d match engine which would need to be transported to a 3d match engine is the ability to see the whole pitch at one time.

i'm pretty sure the whole point of the 2d engine was to allow you to see whats going on in a tactical sense and make chagnes.

if you can't see the whole pitch in one go then you can't do that.

it would be good to see the hight of the ball abit easier though. but i dont think a full 3d engine is needed for that.

Look thread opener, you don't say things like that because you have only seen a few comments on this thread. Utter prat

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

Sorry but if your going to press for fully 3d represented matches then I have to ask, what is the point of graphics from the 90s or early 2000s at the latest?

I can't imagine how graphics of that standard would come across as any better at representing what is happening than the current pitch representation.

SI don't have any problems creating new games every year, so I don't understand why you seem to be suggesting there is a problem creating them. They may not have added the so-called promised land of a fully 3d engine but they have radically increased the management features on hand over a number of years. If they were to turn their back on progressing graphical features over statistical and management features then you have to argue that that would mean a step back on the great progress that FM has made. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was just saying that it doesn't have to be state of the art graphics since its only a management game. I want a 3d engine so that i can see the match better not just to look pretty. OF course there is no good reason to make the game look ugly by todays standards so im gonna post a link to how latest fifa looks like. You can google an earlier version if you like. I checked out fifa 2000 and it looks a bazillion times better than FM. Hell, even football manager on ZX spectrum had players with legs.

Here is an example of how fifa looks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENHaxk7vsPQ&feature=related

Here is how FM looks:

You cant say that FM gives you more information about the match than the fifa's representation. In fifa you can see the players passing, tackling, dribbling etc. In FM you just see gigantic blobs sliding around.

About SI creating a new game every year. They dont. We've been playing the same game for quite a few years now. Yes i know its sold for a full price, but dont forget that the only difference between the versions is a couple of buggy ill thought out features. Some of them slightly improve the gameplay while some of them ruin it a bit. Might as well call it FM05 service pack 3. Im sorry but i have been seriously unimpressed by the progress they have made the last few years. I hope its because they have been making radical changes to the game that for some bizarre reason weren't yet ready to be included in the game.

not having played fifa that much (because i dont really like it)

but the on pitch players react to your directions of the control pad.

if they tire they move slower, if they're fit they move faster.

there are far more stats,combinations of stats even, in FM that need to be related to how a player reacts on pitch.

these all need to be calculated.