Am I that bad as a manager?

[Kakidaniel]

Alright, let me start from the beginning. I recently bought FM20 and has played the game a couple of hours and really gotten into it. I was planning to take over Leicester several weeks before the game released so I had everything planned when the game started for the first time. I was really hyped over the game and looked forward to take Leicester to a CL-spot. I started the game, loaded a handful nations and took over Leicester, had a great pre-season and.. BOOM. I was in the relegation zone in mid-december. What the hell happened, I thought. For me the tactical-side of the game always was the most interesting one and I have been really good to make tactics, but this was just.. Horrible.

I made a new game and took over Leicester again, but I changed the tactic and even made two so I had one backup(I always only use one). And again; I had a great pre-season and when it came to the "real deal" my team was swept away by the worst team in the league. I lost 5-1 to Aston Villa who was placed last in Premier League for an example. How in earth did I became SO BAD at the tactics? I am truly missing something but I really don't know what.

Let's take an example. I want Jamie Vardy to be the main goalscorer but as a lone striker he gets marked away which I know he would. But when I make the wingers collaborate to help him he is beginning to run to the wingers position to get the ball, and then several defenders is on him and he loses the ball. I tried to use long passes behind the enemy lines which worked for about two games, then it stopped working.

I am so freaking frustrated and don't know what to do right now. It's Leicester for god's sake but they're playing like a sunday league-team. Am I that bas as a manager?

[Tetsuro P12]

Fact is you need to exploit the game, adapt your attitude to what the game expect. Watch player movements (both yours and opponents in TV mode for 90 minutes), see where you leave space (both when attacking, if your players are left alone, and defending, if your players don't cover all the spaces). Keep attention with presssing (more pressing more space left behind the player) and tempo, don't overdo direct passages. Also check for morale, since it can also be a morale problem.

[Kakidaniel]

5 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Fact is you need to exploit the game, adapt your attitude to what the game expect. Watch player movements (both yours and opponents in TV mode for 90 minutes), see where you leave space (both when attacking, if your players are left alone, and defending, if your players don't cover all the spaces). Keep attention with presssing (more pressing more space left behind the player) and tempo, don't overdo direct passages. Also check for morale, since it can also be a morale problem.

I am, and that's the problem. When I start a new game, or take over a new team I watch the games and try to tweak. But what do you do when it's perfect in pre-season and pure **** when it's the real deal?

[dcaine100]

Please post a screenshot of your current tactic we may be able to help point you in the right direction

[Tetsuro P12]

33 minutes ago, Kakidaniel said:

I am, and that's the problem. When I start a new game, or take over a new team I watch the games and try to tweak. But what do you do when it's perfect in pre-season and pure **** when it's the real deal?

In pre-season you are playing against weak teams. After you do play against better teams and away. Away you can lose even against somewhat weak teams (not one star... three and a half, or even three). After some losses morale can plummet. Anyway post your tactics, as dcaine said.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Tetsuro P12

[frukox]

29 minutes ago, dcaine100 said:

Please post a screenshot of your current tactic we may be able to help point you in the right direction

Yeah we would like to help you. Please do so.

[FMunderachiever]

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

Alright, let me start from the beginning. I recently bought FM20 and has played the game a couple of hours and really gotten into it. I was planning to take over Leicester several weeks before the game released so I had everything planned when the game started for the first time. I was really hyped over the game and looked forward to take Leicester to a CL-spot. I started the game, loaded a handful nations and took over Leicester, had a great pre-season and.. BOOM. I was in the relegation zone in mid-december. What the hell happened, I thought. For me the tactical-side of the game always was the most interesting one and I have been really good to make tactics, but this was just.. Horrible.

I made a new game and took over Leicester again, but I changed the tactic and even made two so I had one backup(I always only use one). And again; I had a great pre-season and when it came to the "real deal" my team was swept away by the worst team in the league. I lost 5-1 to Aston Villa who was placed last in Premier League for an example. How in earth did I became SO BAD at the tactics? I am truly missing something but I really don't know what.

Let's take an example. I want Jamie Vardy to be the main goalscorer but as a lone striker he gets marked away which I know he would. But when I make the wingers collaborate to help him he is beginning to run to the wingers position to get the ball, and then several defenders is on him and he loses the ball. I tried to use long passes behind the enemy lines which worked for about two games, then it stopped working.

I am so freaking frustrated and don't know what to do right now. It's Leicester for god's sake but they're playing like a sunday league-team. Am I that bas as a manager?

Most likely situation is you have good ideas but cant communicate them into FM Language.

FM isnt a particularly intuitive game. Lets be real, its not a "good" game.

Post the tactic up and im sure there will be some great recommendations

[Kakidaniel]

This is my latest tactic I have been using the previous month. It works ok but there's still major problems as Vardy doesn't score and we are weak against the worse teams. I'm surprised we even won a few the past weeks..

However, it's in swedish language. But I think you will understand it anyway by looking at the pictures.

The tactic:

Sweeper Keeper (Support)

(Right) Wingback (Support)
Ball Playing Defender(Defend)
Ball Playing Defender(Defend)
(Left) Wingback (Support)

Central Midfielder(Defend)
Central Midfielder(Support)

(Right) Winger(Support)
Treqartista(Attack)
(Left) Inside Forwad(Support)

Advanced Forward(Attack)

 

It's not perfect, I know, but it's under progress and as I sad it seems like the best thing I came up with so far. Don't know what it says about me as a manager, but yeah..

[Kakidaniel]

The eleven players I've chosen in the pictures is my main 11, if that's not clear.

[Tetsuro P12]

It's a pretty offensive setup, looks like you lack in the defensive phase (you are open to counterattacks). I don't understand the language but it looks unbalanced. You don't need to check everything, you give too many instructions, especially in 'Utan Ball', and 'Omstallingar'. Uncheck, or they will act like imbeciles. Also, do you see that yellow guy? It isn't good at playing in that position.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Tetsuro P12

[BigV]

Your set up is quite similar to mine or has been quite often. I'd suggest moving attacking to positive. Attacking with your Team instructions and roles seem a little off. Your wing back need to be support or lower, if you have a winger on the right I'd suggest WB-D or Fullback support. I've had better uses not "overlapping" because it's already attacking and your roles of WB already do that often when available, it hinders your wide players waiting for wingbacks to running over. 

Having tielemans as a DLP or AP would be best as he can run games, ball usually goes through him so maybe change his role? BBM might be useful too but maybe test that because CM-S is a very general role. 

I can defintely see what you're trying to do, Short passing having 2 solid cm's for support the defence and having wing backs that are "complete" in doing both attack and defend. Having a fluid attack to support vardy. 

The ME can be ishy for you too, morale seems to be a heavy burden so if they're on normal or below they tend to be useless at times unless you boost them. My Point is that I think you're too attacking and no one is getting a foothold in that midfield, no one is spraying passes or good ones to your attack so theirs some sort of disconnection- (try tielemans on DLP-S). 

Could you show your bottom thing for the defensive parts? the one with line of engagement/Defensive line, pressing etc. I could help you on that side. 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

This is my latest tactic I have been using the previous month. It works ok but there's still major problems as Vardy doesn't score and we are weak against the worse teams. I'm surprised we even won a few the past weeks..

However, it's in swedish language. But I think you will understand it anyway by looking at the pictures.

The tactic:

Sweeper Keeper (Support)

(Right) Wingback (Support)
Ball Playing Defender(Defend)
Ball Playing Defender(Defend)
(Left) Wingback (Support)

Central Midfielder(Defend)
Central Midfielder(Support)

(Right) Winger(Support)
Treqartista(Attack)
(Left) Inside Forwad(Support)

Advanced Forward(Attack)

 

It's not perfect, I know, but it's under progress and as I sad it seems like the best thing I came up with so far. Don't know what it says about me as a manager, but yeah..

I don't understand the language in these screenshots, but what I can clearly notice is - you are using way too many instructions, which is the most likely cause of your tactical issues. Best tactics are usually pretty simple, especially in terms of instructions.

[Linus_Shepard]

why two BPD? Seems from your other instructions(witch there are way to many off) you want to play out from the back and play possesion fotball. Seems a common misconception. BPD are actualy more likly to try direct passes and take risk.

Also take new screenshots in English this time so it will be more easy for the tactics guys on the forum to understand.

[sporadicsmiles]

I love the terminology in whatever language that is, as an aside!

Let's take the tactic from offense and then from defense.

Offense.

The main issue I see here is you are absolutely loading the final third with players, but it is unclear who is making space for whom. What is the overall plan here? How do you envisage scoring goals? I can imagine you get players bunched up on the central defenders a lot. Then your only real outlet is the wide areas with the wingbacks. You do not really have any runners trying to get into space. Your AF(A) will tend to keep CBs back, and that should give your T(A) some space to work in (unless there are a bunch of DMCs floating around). The IF will likewise push the opposition right back back, and create space for the wing back on the same side. I could see crosses from the left being reasonably dangerous. On the right you create an overload with the winger and fullback, which I also like to use. In this case, however, I do not see how you plan to exploit that overload. I also do not see what the trequartista is for here. What is the thought behind using this role?

The midfield is pretty much there to act as a screen and a pivot in this tactic, but it is pretty passive. Take care of PPMs too, because having one that encourages a player forward would not be good here. For the way you are set up, this midfield pairing makes sense. However, what do you want these players to do?

I echo others in saying you have too many TIs. I will not tackle them all (partly because I cannot understand them). Instead, ask yourself how you want to play, and which ones you absolutely need. These are the ones you should keep. Remember that TIs should be used when needed more than always be active. They are something you should be using to change your play during a game to take advantage of something, or stop something undesirable.

Defense.

You are going to be very vulnerable to a counter attack with this tactic. Particularly with both FBs pushed up high and using counter press. This will mean they try to engage players after losing the ball rather than falling back into position. This will often leave your CBs completely isolated. This is far, far too aggressive. Especially if you are playing against a team who has two players up front, or who are counter attacking down the flanks. This is probably why you lose to lower ranked sides who look to play predominantly counter attacking against you. In a 4231 you need to take care of your flanks and the area in front of your defenders in a way you do not have to in a 4141. The lack of a DMC really can hurt. Id pay a lot of attention to make sure the CM(D) is acting as a proper screen and is also acting as proper defensive cover if on of your CBs have to chase a player wide. If a team can drag your CBs apart, you will  be cut open without this cover.

Again, ask yourself what is your defensive plan. What do you want each and every player to be doing when you lose the ball? This determines what your instructions for a transition should be. What do you want them to do when you are defending? This will help sort out their roles and the defensive instructions. Imagine in your head that you have just lost the ball and are open for a counter attack. Think what every player should do, and try to set them up accordingly.

And remember if you keep seeing the same things happen, make changes to stop them happening. Especially in defense. If you concede a lot of similar goals, you have to change to stop it. It will not get better on its own.

[Justified]

Maybe keeps things a little more simple? It sounds like you want to get Vardy to score, ok that's fair enough. However you're not helping him at all. You've got a high line and high engagement, effectively trying to push the opposition into their half. There will be no space for him to use at all. Maybe first pull back one notch each and see how that works, if that doesn't work then maybe lure out the opposition with a low engagement line to make space for Vardy to score.

But I echo a lot of which has been said here, you have way too many instructions. If I was a player and was told in possession "We're going to play out of defence, look to overlap however hit balls into space but make sure you play short passes and keep the tempo of our attack low. Once we get to the box work it inside however do so by running with the ball"; I'd say I have no idea what your aim is. On top of that I have a set of instructions for my role in the team and how do they tie in with what my manager wants me to do.

Honestly, the more simple you keep it the easier you'll find the game. Sometimes taking a pre-set and "unpeeling" it like an onion actually works as well as you don't need all the instructions on each pre-set, they're just there to show you what you can use.

[frukox]

1 hour ago, Justified said:

Maybe keeps things a little more simple? It sounds like you want to get Vardy to score, ok that's fair enough. However you're not helping him at all. You've got a high line and high engagement, effectively trying to push the opposition into their half. There will be no space for him to use at all. Maybe first pull back one notch each and see how that works, if that doesn't work then maybe lure out the opposition with a low engagement line to make space for Vardy to score.

But I echo a lot of which has been said here, you have way too many instructions. If I was a player and was told in possession "We're going to play out of defence, look to overlap however hit balls into space but make sure you play short passes and keep the tempo of our attack low. Once we get to the box work it inside however do so by running with the ball"; I'd say I have no idea what your aim is. On top of that I have a set of instructions for my role in the team and how do they tie in with what my manager wants me to do.

Honestly, the more simple you keep it the easier you'll find the game. Sometimes taking a pre-set and "unpeeling" it like an onion actually works as well as you don't need all the instructions on each pre-set, they're just there to show you what you can use.

@Kakidaniel I also echo everyone here. They all have good points. Change your mentality to Balanced and start with a clean slate and tweak as you go. This way, you can read what each instruction does and how they interact with each other by watching matches in full detail. Generally, if you want Vardy to be the focal point of attacks you need to support him in as many ways as possible. Actually, for a good tactic you need three and a half goalscoring ways. For example, 

1) could be any kind of passes by an any AM on attack duty who are going to join the striker in the attacking phase as soon as possible

2) byline crosses from a right winger who will join the striker as soon as possible to create space horizontally by drawing one or two players

3) through-balls and crosses from a left inside forward who are going to join him later in the attack

4) crosses from left and right full backs

5) precise through balls from one of your capable CDs.

6) set-pieces

7) penalties

As you see the kind of support is mostly direct which generally requires space in the final third. By lowering the LOE and playing at least a medium tempo you can increase the space your striker are going to work with. The reason is the fact that AF, P or PF(A) strikers shine with space in the final third.

Edited December 9, 2019 by frukox

[Kakidaniel]

Many thanks to all of you guys who has came up with very interesting thoughts. You explain very good.

About the thing with many instructions - I agree, but at the same time this is the best tactic yet where we performed pretty well with 3 wins and 1 loss. But of course, there are lots of improvement I can make after all.

Sorry about the "wrong" language in the pictures and also that I seemed to miss the last instruction-pic and replaced it with the second.. Not that great. However. I post all the pictures one more time but in english. I will now look into your tips and try to implement some of them in my tactic. I've learned alot.

[BigV]

What I said before still applies fortunately. Because you've got a Vhigh defensive line move your LOE to higher in my opinion. Seems like your midfield is getting over ran as they're too high and realistically should be sitting back covering your defence regardless of your role. OR lower your pressing intensity. Theory states that with a high LOE your midfield is bypassed leaving your defense open, your wingbacks on attack technically join your attack so your 2 cb's are going to be ran riot- check where assits are coming from opposition, likely to be from wide positions. 

Is there much need for a much higher line? whats your thinking behind this? I'd suggest standard line or high line of defense. Simply because the ME with long balls has been ishy and quite easy to conceed, you're making it easier for the AI to score basically. 

What are you trying to achive, explain what type of play you want and how you want your defenders/defence when losing the ball to show, maybe it'll be more clearer. 

[Experienced Defender]

11 minutes ago, Kakidaniel said:

To be completely honest, your tactic is what I call a "recipe for (defensive) disaster.

Just look at your defensive team instructions: 

- much higher DL

- much higher LOE

- extremely urgent pressing

- get stuck in

- tight marking

- counter-press

And all this under the Attacking team mentality. Plus 2 attacking wing-backs in a top-heavy formation without a DM (4231). Plus overlaps on both sides, which make these 2 WBs even more attack-minded, leaving your flanks extremely vulnerable when you lose the ball.

Such an aggressive way of defending does not make you defensively solid and stable. It makes you an easy prey for being hit on the counter. 

And the attacking part of your setup does not help, either. But that's another story. You should first look to fix the defensive side of your tactic before anything else.

[BigV]

@Experienced Defender Out of curiosity if he had the best players, could that tactic work, looks very much like a liverpool kinda tactic with gegenpress. Leicester could work on it and become much better IRL so the way FM does it could be completely different. But in general I agree, Could work 4/10 times though completely camp in their box and push them all the way back. Extreme but effective on less occassional times. 

[Experienced Defender]

7 minutes ago, BigV said:

@Experienced Defender Out of curiosity if he had the best players, could that tactic work, looks very much like a liverpool kinda tactic with gegenpress

Even Klopp does not play this aggressive any longer, believe me. No matter how good players you have, a degree of balance must exist if you want a tactic to work. Unless you download (or create yourself) an exploit tactic, but that's an entirely different story.

[Kakidaniel]

I hear you, and I understand exactly what you guys mean. BUT. This tactic worked best of all my tries, which is pretty strange. But I don't say it's good, but the best working tactic so far which can change quickly. 

The other tactics(which is long gone in the paper bin and not in my memory) where more balanced and not so many instructions. I was a really good at this part of game on the previous game(FM19) but this really took the worst out of me and I felt that I'm on route one again, of some reason. 

So why I didn't post my tactic immediately was because I felt that I have tried 'em all but none was working. But with your inputs(all of you) I've got some really interesting ideas and thank you for that. Cheers!

[BigV]

2 hours ago, Kakidaniel said:

I hear you, and I understand exactly what you guys mean. BUT. This tactic worked best of all my tries, which is pretty strange. But I don't say it's good, but the best working tactic so far which can change quickly. 

The other tactics(which is long gone in the paper bin and not in my memory) where more balanced and not so many instructions. I was a really good at this part of game on the previous game(FM19) but this really took the worst out of me and I felt that I'm on route one again, of some reason. 

So why I didn't post my tactic immediately was because I felt that I have tried 'em all but none was working. But with your inputs(all of you) I've got some really interesting ideas and thank you for that. Cheers!

Each game has ME differences that CAN/COULD affect games and results, each FM game is different. You need to adapt to the game but also adapt to "modern football", I jumped from fm17 to 19 and my tactics were awful as they were the same, used the perfect 19 one in 20 and that didn't work either. You need the players to work a certain way, like you're aggreesively pressing, can they press? is their workrate, aggression, determination, natural fitness, stamina, decision making good enough to do it? each and every thing you do changes the way you play BUT you need the perfect fit for it to work. You can use similar tactics and tweak it during seasons to better it but im pretty sure it's very hard to use the same stuff each year and year out. 

[Kakidaniel]

Okay, so I've been playing eight games now against really bad and really good team with mixed results. I have made an interesting tactic but I need your opinion about it and I have several questions also that you guys hopefully would answer.

1. My OMC(Maddison/Pérez) doesn't perform and is often just an extra player in the offense. What can I improve  here?
2. My team doesn't mark tight, even if I make them do it. Therefore the opponents have lots of time to do whatever they want with the ball.
3. When Vardy doesn't score, no-one scores, and Vardy doesn't score that many. What do I lack?
4. I have trouble with my defense where the opponents offense just run away from them, even if they are on the right side etc.

[Nikitas]

Hello there,

Just to give you some advice from my personal experience in this game.

The 4-2-3-1 is a "heavy" formation in FM. Also, wingers on the AML/AMR positions with an attack duty tend to stay high up on the field and do not track back to help defending. Probably that is why you see unmarked players. Basically, you are defending with 6 players. Players on the AML, AMC, AMR, ST positions tend to stay high up on the pitch, especially on balanced and higher mentalities.

The way I visualize your team defending is this:

Balanced mentality + more urgent press: Your front 4 sit between the opposition's defence and midfield. They are asked to press more but since there is no higher LOE they always stop at some point. This gives the opposition time to break through your front 4. Once the ball has reached the opposition's midfield your wingers defend less because they are on attack duty. Now you are defending with 6 players + the attacking midfielder (who still doesn't defend too much). You ask from your 7 players to mark tighter but in the meantime the opposition's full backs have come to play (still your attacking wingers don't come back to mark them). You are defending with less players that is a problem. Your defenders must be really good to overcome this numerical disadvantage.

If you want your wingers to defend more put them on support duty or put them on the ML/MR positions. Of course, whichever way you pick will lead to other tactical issues that you have to think about.

[Experienced Defender]

50 minutes ago, Kakidaniel said:

This tactic seems like you are now trying to play more of a counter-attacking style of football. You are far less aggressive than you were in your first tactic - which is good - but I fear that the 4231 as a formation is not ideal for your new style of play. I mean, it can be adapted to be more defensively solid and counter-attacking, but it's more difficult to do than with a 442 or 4123 wide, for example. 

And you need the right type of players for any system to work. For example, Tielemans is a very good playmaker (not necessarily in terms of role, but his overall style of play), but are his defensive attributes good enough for a holding midfielder in a 4231? That's also a kind of factor you need to bear in mind when creating a tactic. 

The good news is that this tactic needs far less tweaking than the initial one. 

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

My OMC(Maddison/Pérez) doesn't perform and is often just an extra player in the offense. What can I improve  here?

When a good player underpeforms, it's in most cases down to the tactic. Okay, any player can occasionally enter a period of bad form, but I fear in this particular case it has to do more with your tactical setup than the player himself. I personally think that in this particular tactic, he would be better off as AM on attack duty than on support, due ti the counter-attacking nature of the tactic. Vardy as a PF on attack can push the opposition back-line, which can create the space for the AMC (Maddison/Perez) to attack and exploit from behind. So I would try him on attack duty and tell him to take more risks (PI), given that he has Vardy in front of him. 

 

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

My team doesn't mark tight, even if I make them do it. Therefore the opponents have lots of time to do whatever they want with the ball

First, tight marking - like any instruction - is no guarantee that it will work as you expect or hope. You can ask your players to do whatever you want, but the question is whether all of them are capable of executing a particular instruction. When it comes specifically to tight marking, it is not equally effective in all systems. It works better in more defensive (bottom-heavy) formations, but even then players can sometimes struggle to execute it properly. And generally speaking, using TM together with more urgent pressing is not the best idea, regardless of the system. So either remove the tight marking TI, or remove the more urgent pressing, and also improve your vertical compactness (i.e. reduce the distance between DL and LOE), so that the lines of your team would be closer together when defending. And don't use tight marking in combination with a high DL. 

 

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

When Vardy doesn't score, no-one scores, and Vardy doesn't score that many. What do I lack?

Again, as with the AMC, it's about the tactic as a whole, not the player. PF on attack is an ideal role for Vardy, so that's not the problem. 

 

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

I have trouble with my defense where the opponents offense just run away from them, even if they are on the right side etc

What exactly do you mean by "run away from them"? 

[Nikitas]

 

2 hours ago, Kakidaniel said:

1. My OMC(Maddison/Pérez) doesn't perform and is often just an extra player in the offense. What can I improve  here?

The attacking midfielder on a support duty stays somewhere outside of the box. As @Experienced Defender noted, since you are trying to counter, it would be more useful to put him on an attack duty so that he makes runs while Vardy is occupying the defenders ahead of him.

  

2 hours ago, Kakidaniel said:

2. My team doesn't mark tight, even if I make them do it. Therefore the opponents have lots of time to do whatever they want with the ball.

The 4-2-3-1 is a "heavy" formation in FM. Also, wingers on the AML/AMR positions with an attack duty tend to stay high up on the field and do not track back to help defending. Probably that is why you see unmarked players. Basically, you are defending with 6 players. Players on the AML, AMC, AMR, ST positions tend to stay high up on the pitch, especially on balanced and higher mentalities.

The way I visualize your team defending is this:

Balanced mentality + more urgent press: Your front 4 sit between the opposition's defence and midfield. They are asked to press more but since there is no higher LOE they always stop at some point. This gives the opposition time to break through your front 4. Once the ball has reached the opposition's midfield your wingers defend less because they are on attack duty. Now you are defending with 6 players + the attacking midfielder (who still doesn't defend too much). You ask from your 7 players to mark tighter but in the meantime the opposition's full backs have come to play (still your attacking wingers don't come back to mark them). You are defending with less players that is a problem. Your defenders must be really good to overcome this numerical disadvantage.

If you want your wingers to defend more put them on support duty or put them on the ML/MR positions. Of course, whichever way you pick will lead to other tactical issues that you have to think about.

 

2 hours ago, Kakidaniel said:

3. When Vardy doesn't score, no-one scores, and Vardy doesn't score that many. What do I lack?

Vardy is very fast so you want him to have space ahead of him. Also, you want him to be your main threat. That means that your wingers must be supporting him rather than attacking on their own. So the Attack duties on the wingers do not help Vardy. 

 

2 hours ago, Kakidaniel said:

Your tactic is a bit vague, try to be more precise with your mentality and team instructions. It is neither a truly counter attacking one neither an attacking one.

Since you want Vardy to be the main goal threat you need to utilize his best attribute (speed). Therefore, you need a direct style of play.

If you believe you can attack and you are not worried of the opposition's attacking ability go with an attacking mentality.

Remove the narrow instruction, you need space so stretch the field. Attacking mentality has fairly wide by default which I believe is fine, you can also give wide a try.

Have Gray on support duty in order to cross the ball and load the box with Vardy, Barnes and Maddison all on attack duty.

Add pass into space since you have fast players to make even more space for them.

DLP has hold position and shoot less often instructions by default. Maybe you want a more free roaming role (RPM, CM (S), B2B) that will push higher up the pitch and get on the end of loose balls thus providing an extra player in attack.

You can also put your left back on attack duty since Barnes will be more centrally thus creating space on the left.

Rest of the team will recycle possession and defend.

 

Now, if you want to play more safe you must change formation.

Switch to cautious mentality and employ a 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1 or 4-1-2-3. Those are the most common counter attacking formations. See which one best suits your players.

Lower your LOE and let the opposition team get higher on the pitch so that they leave space behind.

Press more urgent, you don't want them to play with ease once they have passed the LOE. Get stuck in is good also (if you have players with good tackling, bravery, aggression, strength even better).

I like tight marking but remove it for start and see how it goes. It is a demanding instruction and sometimes makes thing worse

If you are playing with 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 defend narrower to close the space between defense and midfield.

Put counter of course, remove regroup. It is only useful when you are very afraid of the opposition.

In possession you need higher tempo. Probably more direct passing also.

 

If the cautious mentality feels too defensive you can try a similar approach with LOE on balanced.

 

Whatever you choose Just remember: you have fast forwards you need space for them

[tyro]

If you are not sure about the tactic:

in previous games (pre-FM19) I would have said, start with few instructions and then add to them when you watch the game.

Now, at least that's the way I play it - look at your team and what formation and style will fit, the game actually helps you a lot with it, choose it as the base and see how it goes. Then tweak from there.

There is no point to start with a tactic with 50 million instructions and then try to figure out why things are going wrong. It could be any of those.

Pre-Season does not really show you how good you will do later. Your players don't take it seriously, the opponents don't take it seriously. They are there to build fitness and get your bars for the tactic up. I mean, if in pre-season you play a very low level team and cannot really win, then there is definitely something wrong, especially once your team starts gelling. You should win your pre-season games comfortably, unless you use them to test against bigger teams. Once the season starts, you want your guys to have good morale, fitness, and the tactic to be familiar. Then you see from there.

If something go wrong, the only way to fix it, you either pause the game when your guys have the ball and without the ball and see the movements and options, or you finish the game and analyze it after (or both). I think there was a thread on here where someone is analyzing the games with videos and what they are doing to change it. That's a good and practical start.

If you see your striker is being marked and cannot be effective, then either get him more support and draw the opponents to other players, or use another player to exploit that. Watch the match and see what's happening.

 

[Experienced Defender]

6 minutes ago, tyro said:

in previous games (pre-FM19) I would have said, start with few instructions and then add to them when you watch the game

This principle still applies. At least as far as I am concerned 

[Kakidaniel]

18 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

What exactly do you mean by "run away from them"? 

What I mean is that my players seem to just stand still or just not go for the ball which leads the opponent to just run past them. And it's so with everyone in my team when we are either defending och the ball is at a neutral place where it's a 50/50 duel. That's really frustrating.

 

I will come up with some new results later, in about 2 hours I think.

 

Cheers everyone for the help!

[Kakidaniel]

Alright, back to the drawingboard. This might be the worst one yet I have to present becuase it's not going well at all and I think I might get sacked soon.

I have read and tried to adapt the things you had to say but it's just **** right now. So, my dear friends, give me all you've got and tell me what I'm doing wrong!

 

1. My players wont chase the ball at all, they just look at it and meanwhile the opponents just get the ball and run past my players which often results in goals. Lots of them.

2. Vardy have scored twice(in the same game) and we have played six games. On the other hand Maddison/Pérez have scored 4+1 goals in this games, so that's positive.

3. The opponents has waaay to many shots against me. Southampton came up in over 40, they're in the relegation zone!

4. The right side is bad, the left is even worse. The central is ok, except my centre backs, they're as bad as the other defenders.

5. The long balls behind enemy lines are not always good, the opponents often gets the ball on their feet - but! when the ball gets past them Vardy and co. loses the ball or shoots right in the hands on the goalie..

 

Queston: Would it be better if my two CM's gets changed to DM, or, one gets to be DM and one stays as CM behind eachother?

[Kakidaniel]

I have seven games left this season. This is the final change I can make before i get sacked or entrusted again. So, tomorrow is the finale of the season.

[Experienced Defender]

53 minutes ago, Kakidaniel said:

 

53 minutes ago, Kakidaniel said:

So, my dear friends, give me all you've got and tell me what I'm doing wrong!

If you still insist on playing in the 4231 formation, then this is how I would set your team up:

PFat

IWsu            AMat            Wsu

DLPsu    BBM

FBat      CDde   BPDde    IWBde

SKsu

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - play out of defence (and nothing else)

In transition - counter (and nothing else)

Out of possession - higher DL, default LOE, default pressing, offside trap (and nothing else) 

However, I still think you would be better off with 4123 wide than 4231. But okay 

1 hour ago, Kakidaniel said:

1. My players wont chase the ball at all, they just look at it and meanwhile the opponents just get the ball and run past my players which often results in goals. Lots of them.

2. Vardy have scored twice(in the same game) and we have played six games. On the other hand Maddison/Pérez have scored 4+1 goals in this games, so that's positive.

3. The opponents has waaay to many shots against me. Southampton came up in over 40, they're in the relegation zone!

4. The right side is bad, the left is even worse. The central is ok, except my centre backs, they're as bad as the other defenders.

5. The long balls behind enemy lines are not always good, the opponents often gets the ball on their feet - but! when the ball gets past them Vardy and co. loses the ball or shoots right in the hands on the goalie..

Sometimes poor performances are not solely about the tactic. Given that you have been in a poor run of form, it's quite possible that your players' morale is low, as well as their confidence. They could well be disappointed in you as a manager. Check out team dynamics to see if that's the case.

[Johnny Ace]

I really don't associate Leicester with a Positive 4-2-3-1 to be honest, actually I see them as a bottom heavy, low lines, running from deep kinda team

There's all kinds of wrong with that 4-2-3-1 IMO, a BBM when you have a number 10, no defensive midfielder, an IF(A) looking to get into Vardy's position, the backline looks fine though   

In all the saves I've ran, Leicester have finished in the bottom half of the table, relegated the once too 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

If you still insist on playing in the 4231 formation, then this is how I would set your team up:

PFat

IWsu            AMat            Wsu

DLPsu    BBM

FBat      CDde   BPDde    IWBde

SKsu

Sorry, my fault. If you play Ndidi and Tielemans in CM, then "my" setup would actually look like this:

PFat

IWsu           AMat           Wsu

DLPsu     CMDe

FBat   CDde    BPDde    (I)WBsu

SKsu

MCL/DLPsu - Tielemans

MCR/CMde - Ndidi

DR/(I)WBsu - Ricardo (rather than Amartey)

[Kakidaniel]

Cheers, guys.

Okay, what do you recommend instead? 4-1-4-1 maybe? I've never had a good experience with wingers that low, how would a good setup be there? Isn't Vardy gonna get lonely upfront? How can I make Maddison help Vardy in that tactic?

 

E: According to the dynamics the players are really happy, strange but good.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Kakidaniel

[Justified]

Then don't play with 4-1-4-1 if you don't want to

Why not try 4-4-1-1? Team kinda looks perfect for that system.

[Kakidaniel]

6 minutes ago, Justified said:

Then don't play with 4-1-4-1 if you don't want to

Why not try 4-4-1-1? Team kinda looks perfect for that system.

Haha! It's not that I don't want to, but I've just never experienced good results with one. But of course, that can change. I've never been this bad at 4-2-3-1 for years, for an example. So everything can change

[Justified]

4-4-1-1 is pretty much the same but more defensively sound. Plus I think it's good for the football you're trying to play. Try it using the roles ED suggested as it still applies.

[Kakidaniel]

Alright, the first season is over and despite the setbacks I am still happy with the termination. I will post some screenshots here beneath so you can see how or season were.

1. I've never tried so many tactics/changes under one season. But in the end I think I might have found something and I really hope it's good.

2. Jamie Vardy became our best goalscorer in the PL with twelve goals. Four of them came in the last seven games.

3. We still concede a lot of goals, but we managed to score even more in the last seven games. We even got to keep two clean sheets.

4. Youri Tielemans made six assists, which were the best in our team in PL this season.

5. Jamie Vardy got offside 65 times, 14 more times than second place.

6. Vardy and Tielemans were the only two who got over 7 in average ratings. The worst ones were Pérez, Barnes and Albrighton - all offensive players.

7. We have major problems with the marking. The opponents still just run past my players which result in lots of shots and goals against us.

Goals for: 48 (+13 in cups) = 61
Goals against: 51 (+7 in cups) = 58

So, in conclusion..
A. The marking/wanting to get the ball is our worst problem.
B. Our second worst problem is the number of shots goals against us.
C. Of course the third one will be the goals for.
D. The last problem I think is my team are uneven; sometimes we win against a big team and sometimes we lose to the worst teams.

[BigV]

I used to love 4231, fm17 was my best use of it HOWEVER in 19 and 20 the CAM isn't as useful cause central play is off slightly so bear that in mind- I had to change to 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 wide to make up for it and worked, didnt like it but it was acceptable.

Here's a tip that might be useful. Against smaller teams or lower teams go on positive mentality. I dunno about "regrouping" and pressing, I find them 2 overlapping each other or at least when i first tried them and never went back to it maybe @Experienced Defender can clarify that. 

If you still stick to a 4-2-3-1 then maybe have Ndidi was a ball winner on defend or support. What EXdefender said was somewhat similar to what i'd say where the exception is your LOE. Why press so urgent and so high when they can bypass your midfield with ease? Lower your LOE and make them come out a little more so vardy can have more space behind or when maddison moves into the channel to cause problems. 

With your new tactic why are you going so direct? you're hoofing the ball without any cause, no point having a cm hoof the ball when only vardy can head it but most of the time lose out. Again what are you trying to achive, how do you want your team to play?!?! <--- Answer that and maybe we can actually help you. 

[Johnny Ace]

Hey, if its working, it's working!!

Still looks crazy offensive to me, like something you'd download designed to create crazy overloads & bombard the AI 

Like there, a CM & DMC on support just shouldn't work, attack duties on all 4 up top roles should leave you massively exposed, you're only leaving your CB's back during an attack. Then there's the Positive mentality & higher DL

But like I said, if it's doing well, stick with it 

[Kakidaniel]

Thanks BigV and Johnny Ace, here's my argument.

Why I have I'm playing so direct is because it's the best working so far. Vardy finally got the ball behind the opponents and, as you can se, he scored four times - three of them by running past them.

With support on the wingers, they achieved nothing. They just were there.. But I understand what you mean, but what should I do instead?

Haha, yeah thanks! Of course, but there's still lots of black holes I want to fill up and that's what you can read about in my last post

 

E: One more thing I've been thinking about. When a, for example, winger come into the box with the ball and Vardy is in a very good position he never gets the pass but instead the winger shoots which 9/10 results in off target, the goalie doesn't even need to save anything. How can I tell the players to bass to a player inside the box who will score 10/10 times?

Edited December 11, 2019 by Kakidaniel

[BigV]

4 minutes ago, Kakidaniel said:

Thanks BigV and Johnny Ace, here's my argument.

Why I have I'm playing so direct is because it's the best working so far. Vardy finally got the ball behind the opponents and, as you can se, he scored four times - three of them by running past them.

With support on the wingers, they achieved nothing. They just were there.. But I understand what you mean, but what should I do instead?

Haha, yeah thanks! Of course, but there's still lots of black holes I want to fill up and that's what you can read about in my last post

Fair enough if it works it works.

Yeah wingers in AML/R act like sitting players waiting for the ball rather than making the run (could use the PI to run ahead), in this case I think you could do that to either one of your wingers, preferably your LM as hes cutting inside. I'd also change your LB to W-S and your IW-S (with run forward as a TI) that way you're getting crosses from deep and from your forward like which vardy can get at. Ndidi-Defend that way you have a lob sided defence and cover, ndidi will drop almost like a CB at times but slightly ahead to break up play, support more or less just means hes getting more invovled in midfield and tielemans already does that himself as @Johnny Ace mentioned. 

That way there's some balance to attack and defend when needed, I'd also say check how ndidi is as a Ball winning midfielder at DM on Defend, could break up play alot more cause he's a machine. 

[Kakidaniel]

7 minutes ago, BigV said:

Fair enough if it works it works.

Yeah wingers in AML/R act like sitting players waiting for the ball rather than making the run (could use the PI to run ahead), in this case I think you could do that to either one of your wingers, preferably your LM as hes cutting inside. I'd also change your LB to W-S and your IW-S (with run forward as a TI) that way you're getting crosses from deep and from your forward like which vardy can get at. Ndidi-Defend that way you have a lob sided defence and cover, ndidi will drop almost like a CB at times but slightly ahead to break up play, support more or less just means hes getting more invovled in midfield and tielemans already does that himself as @Johnny Ace mentioned. 

That way there's some balance to attack and defend when needed, I'd also say check how ndidi is as a Ball winning midfielder at DM on Defend, could break up play alot more cause he's a machine. 

Thanks, I will try that under pre-season!

[Johnny Ace]

First off, I'd have Barnes on Support, Maddison on Support & Ndidi on Defend, just to balance the duties a little 

I'm thinking Pereira could get forward somehow, I don't know what he's like in game but he's pretty much a right winger in RL  

[BigV]

31 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

right winger in RL 

funny you should say that, he's a real attacking FB or a really good defensive winger. His tackling stats is like 5th/6th in the leagure, rare to see from wb these days unless you're AWB . But he's taking the EXdefenders route in saying the CAM supports vardy helping them both score and work off each other rather than maddison always trying to play him in and having little scoring effect pressuring vardy to score more- long balls useful way for acting like a 2 rather than a 1. 

[denen123]

 Can i suggest you watch these videos:

You might have the best setup but the player quality and PPMs play huge roles in selection process. Evans on a high line will give away long balls to opposition. You drop the line because of that. Also note that the most important part of tactic is the "out of possesion".

I'll just add this video for good measure. Don't copy it directly, as the owner would warn, but understand how and why:

https://youtu.be/9lLjZJg9aJQ

 

[Kakidaniel]

54 minutes ago, denen123 said:

 Can i suggest you watch these videos:

You might have the best setup but the player quality and PPMs play huge roles in selection process. Evans on a high line will give away long balls to opposition. You drop the line because of that. Also note that the most important part of tactic is the "out of possesion".

I'll just add this video for good measure. Don't copy it directly, as the owner would warn, but understand how and why:

https://youtu.be/9lLjZJg9aJQ

 

Cheers mate, I will definately look into everything!