WojciechZed Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 So I have had a few players now who have long hair in real life but when I watch games in the 3D match engine, they have short hair. So I'm wondering is long hair an issue for the Football Manager creators? Have you seen long hair? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiotom92 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 It's ridiculous, isn't it? The 3D match engine was first implemented 10 years ago, yet there's still only two hairstyles modelled in the match engine - short hair or no hair.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifty Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Does this really affect your enjoyment of the game? I can safely say I had never even thought to check if players hairstyles match their 3D counterpart, let alone find it ridiculous that they don't match. You could always only buy players with short hair? That would surely prevent this game breaking bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preveza Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 yEP, ruins immersion for me too. ME is stagnating way too much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFuller Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Personally, this doesn't ruin immersion for me too much. Also, it seems that people are still confusing the Match Engine with the Graphics Engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifty Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, CFuller said: Personally, this doesn't ruin immersion for me too much. Also, it seems that people are still confusing the Match Engine with the Graphics Engine. And confusing Football Manager with Hairstyle Manager How anyone can say the game is ruined because their left back has got short hair on the pitch and long hair in their picture is beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovis Dexter Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 I think it's pretty good that the players' ethnicity and hair colour is shown correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 As an assistant researcher I can just imagine the updates going into SI every 6 weeks when someone has a haircut, hair gel, hair dye, hairband, pony tail, curls What next, beards, mustaches, sideburns, stubble? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earnie is God! Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Nope, they are just asking for the player on the pitch to match the picture provided by the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovis Dexter Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, MrPompey said: As an assistant researcher I can just imagine the updates going into SI every 6 weeks when someone has a haircut, hair gel, hair dye, hairband, pony tail, curls What next, beards, mustaches, sideburns, stubble? You'd have to issue a new Pogba every week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanche12 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Only Commentary or 2D best!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifty Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Earnie is God! said: Nope, they are just asking for the player on the pitch to match the picture provided by the game. They're not though. They are saying it's an "issue", "ridiculous" and "ruins immersion". Thats massively different to saying "Hey SI, I've noticed that some my players with long hair in their profile pic only have short hair on the pitch. Can that be looked at for FM 20?" We're not playing the Sims. Ethnicity, hair colour and player size is really all that you need to determine who is who on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Earnie is God! said: Nope, they are just asking for the player on the pitch to match the picture provided by the game. "ruins immersion" is the phrase used The picture provided by the game will never match the player on the pitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Will always stick to the 2D engine anyway but I imagine this kind of thing would be difficult to implement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WojciechZed Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Grifty said: Ethnicity, hair colour and player size is really all that you need to determine who is who on the pitch. Why is hair colour important but not hair length? I'm not saying they should be implementing hundreds of different hair styles, but surely long isn't that difficult? You can give yourself an afro as a manager for crying out loud. 29 minutes ago, ajt said: Will always stick to the 2D engine anyway but I imagine this kind of thing would be difficult to implement. Why would it be difficult to implement? Again, before somebody attacks me and says I am not a programmer, then asks if I can do better, it's long hair. For crying out, it's hair, but just, long. Is it really that complicated for the graphics team? By the way, hair colour is sometimes wrong in this game. I have seen players who have never had anything other than dark hair in real life, with blonde hair in this game. I have also heard others talk of how people's ethnicities are wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Because they would need to match it to the players? Or do you mean you just want some variation not true to life? Maybe I'm just selfish since I don't use 3D (other than for goal replays), but I would much rather them concentrate on the match engine and other QOL improvements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 9 hours ago, CFuller said: Personally, this doesn't ruin immersion for me too much. Also, it seems that people are still confusing the Match Engine with the Graphics Engine. unfortunately both are stagnating somewhat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFuller Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said: unfortunately both are stagnating somewhat That is your opinion, and I respectfully disagree. I'd be interested to know what exactly you were expecting by now, especially with regards to the graphics engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WojciechZed Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, ajt said: Because they would need to match it to the players? So? If they can match the right skin colour, why can't they match hair length? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 If you look at FM or CM as it was it started from commentary only. The game evolves because of the demand or wants of the FM playing community, and to an extent want makes the game fresher and more detailed each version. Its a commercial product at the end of the day but it needs to meet the wants of what people want If hair length and every thing else is considered overall as a big demand then it will change for the community. I suppose the way to look at it is that there are a limited number of changes that can be made for each version. Imagine it as development points in terms of effort and cost. Change happens because enough people want change. SI have a New Features request thread, suggest the change If I am honest then yes it would be great to see Christian Burgess with his pony tail, maybe his his boyish beard and before he left Matt Clarke with a receding hairline but does that take priority over the game becoming more like real life in other facets. Its a balance - you choose and vocalise what you want - I do believe SI will listen Will the FM community prioritise that over other changes - there lies the conundrum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 If this issue is a concern for the community, then make a thread in the Features Request forum and it will be looked at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Morgan Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 If my memory serves me correctly I remember the legend David James saving a shot once with his afro, so hair style could well be the difference maker between 3 points or 1! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 19 hours ago, CFuller said: That is your opinion, and I respectfully disagree. I'd be interested to know what exactly you were expecting by now, especially with regards to the graphics engine. Leaving the ME aside,which has it's own issues what I would be looking for in the graphics engine with the 3D now being 10 years old would be some enhancements on FM16 which looked fairly realistic with decent looking stadiums with rust on the roofs of older stadiums, puddles on the surrounding track when it rained, pitch conditions being effected in wet weather mud on players shorts etc, snow on the pitch, just about the right balance of replica shirts in the crowd, dressings on headwounds. There are probably others which have slipped my mind. In my opinion the graphics started to go backwards in FM18, unrealistic looking stadiums with picnic tables, a plethora of large exit tunnels, poor looking floodlights, all the crowd looking identical with 99% wearing replica shirts, no weather effects either on the players or pitch. I am not expecting FIFA graphics but it appears that a good base in FM16 has been ditched for something which for me seems less realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WojciechZed Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 I haven't played FM16, but it sounds great if what you say is true. I wonder why, rather than advancing, they have gone backwards with this. Was it only FM16, or did FM 17 also get this right and then from FM18 for some reason it went downhill? To be quite honest, speaking in general, this is the reason I was skeptical about the 3D match engine in the first place. As soon as I knew they were going to do it, I thought 'why'? The 2D match engine was improving year after year and if they had concentrated only on that, perhaps it would be amazing by now? The first two problems I could see with a 3D match engine, before it was introduced, was stadiums looking like their real life counterparts and players looking like they real life counterparts. Again, not expecting amazing graphics with players that look almost identical to the real thing, but at least to generally resemble them from a distance. Having seen so many stadiums that do not look anything like their real life counterparts, as well as players, it just reiterates to me that there was no need to go 3D. For me personally, yes, having a player who has long hair in real life, not having it in FM, or seeing a bald Nainggolan, because they don't know have the mohawk hairstyle in FM, is frustrating, not the most frustrating thing for sure, but frustrating nevertheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, WojciechZed said: I haven't played FM16, but it sounds great if what you say is true. I wonder why, rather than advancing, they have gone backwards with this. Was it only FM16, or did FM 17 also get this right and then from FM18 for some reason it went downhill? To be quite honest, speaking in general, this is the reason I was skeptical about the 3D match engine in the first place. As soon as I knew they were going to do it, I thought 'why'? The 2D match engine was improving year after year and if they had concentrated only on that, perhaps it would be amazing by now? The first two problems I could see with a 3D match engine, before it was introduced, was stadiums looking like their real life counterparts and players looking like they real life counterparts. Again, not expecting amazing graphics with players that look almost identical to the real thing, but at least to generally resemble them from a distance. Having seen so many stadiums that do not look anything like their real life counterparts, as well as players, it just reiterates to me that there was no need to go 3D. For me personally, yes, having a player who has long hair in real life, not having it in FM, or seeing a bald Nainggolan, because they don't know have the mohawk hairstyle in FM, is frustrating, not the most frustrating thing for sure, but frustrating nevertheless. I didn't buy FM17 because of denuvo, but it looks more or less the same as 16 with some enhancements such as vanishing spray. It would appear that the graphical artwork for FM18 was changed completely and is the poorer for it. There are licence issues for stadiums looking like the real thing, but they certainly looked more realistic in FM16. Even the 2D doesn't look as good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dap1987 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 06/07/2019 at 22:52, MrPompey said: If hair length and every thing else is considered overall as a big demand then it will change for the community. I suppose the way to look at it is that there are a limited number of changes that can be made for each version. Imagine it as development points in terms of effort and cost. Change happens because enough people want change. SI have a New Features request thread, suggest the change Ahh yes, I can see the slogan now - "Football Manager 2020 - Our Players Have Ponytails Too" If people think this is a serious issue then SI should probably just give up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 06/07/2019 at 19:54, WojciechZed said: So? If they can match the right skin colour, why can't they match hair length? perhaps you could contact the researcher for your club and confirm to him the length of each players hair ready in case this becomes a future feature Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WojciechZed Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Don't get it, why wouldn't people want the 3D match engine to look as realistic as possible? Why always shoot down or mock those who suggest improvements? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifty Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 58 minutes ago, WojciechZed said: Don't get it, why wouldn't people want the 3D match engine to look as realistic as possible? Why always shoot down or mock those who suggest improvements? No ones said it shouldn’t be as realistic as possible, just questioning why people say it’s essentially game breaking and ridiculous. There was no suggestion of improvement just “why isn’t this perfect wah wah wah” is how it came across Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WojciechZed Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 It isn't game breaking, but it is a bit absurd that you only have two types of hair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 53 minutes ago, Grifty said: No ones said it shouldn’t be as realistic as possible, just questioning why people say it’s essentially game breaking and ridiculous. There was no suggestion of improvement just “why isn’t this perfect wah wah wah” is how it came across Read the posts again I don't see anyone saying it is game breaking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifty Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said: Read the posts again I don't see anyone saying it is game breaking Not in as many words. They are saying it's an "issue", "ridiculous" and "ruins immersion". It's hair for god sake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autohoratio Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Would long hair on players be a nice addition? Yes. Is it a priority that should be added asap? Not in the slightest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Grifty said: Not in as many words. They are saying it's an "issue", "ridiculous" and "ruins immersion". It's hair for god sake. I can see your point of view, but the thread has expanded somewhat to how realistic the graphics engine is looking which I believe is affecting immersion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said: I can see your point of view, but the thread has expanded somewhat to how realistic the graphics engine is looking which I believe is affecting immersion The graphics engine is actually quite new - FM18. You're referring to graphics though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 As Fraz said earlier, might be best to add this as a feature request. There are licencing issues regarding likeness of a player. Whether long hair is too much of one, I don't know, but if it's posted as a feature request, it can at least be reviewed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 A feature request has been raised, so I will close this now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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