Rainmaker v2 and Silk & Steel v2.......... A Combined Arms approach to FM

[Kuek]

KUEK should try Rhys Turner at Newcastle!

i sold sissoko and yoan gouffran and bought demba ba lol... i think i bought too much players. sold a few.. unsettle my team ? second season ... lying in 4th place... 15 points behind league leaders =.="

lol

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr U, any tips with regards to Team Talks? Do you bother with them at all? If you do, is it something you leave to the Asst Mgr?

Started a new season with Luton using your tactics and tips this season. Only 11 games in and too early to make any conclusions - plus the squad Ive inherited is absolutely garbage!

Team Talks

Pre-Match - Leave to Assistant Manager

Take over at half time.

DEFAULT POSITION

Losing - Assertive - Far from happy

Drawing - Assertive - Far from happy

Winning by 'only' 1 goal - Assertive - Far from happy

Winning by 2 goals - Assertive - Kick on

Winning by 3 goals+ - Assertive - Pleased

As you can see, i'm rarely happy!

If you are a small team and playing one of the top teams i might be a bit 'nicer'..... but not much.

If you get on a poor run I would back off a bit in a few of the Team talks...... but not much!

[DJ Sir Matthew]

However, at least in FM, I consider the Complete Forward/Attack to be a modern day reinvention of the Poacher, all of the advantages of the Poacher with none of the drawbacks, lethal goal scorers yet with the ability to create as well as score goals

So, if I understand you correctly, for all player roles in your tactic, you have the key attribute (15+), secondary key attributes (12+) and then all necessary attributes for that role according to FM (10+). Would that be a 'sound' approach to find the best players to fit into the role?

[Mr U Rosler]

So, if I understand you correctly, for all player roles in your tactic, you have the key attribute (15+), secondary key attributes (12+) and then all necessary attributes for that role according to FM (10+). Would that be a 'sound' approach to find the best players to fit into the role?

Pretty much. At 'elite' level i.e Champions League contenders you will need better than that i.e Primary attribute 17+, secondary 14+.

Obviously the higher the level the more money you have the more you can 'fill out' the roles.

Take the Box to Box midfielders.

I have suggested Passing, Work Rate, Tackling, Team work if you then add high Flair & Creativity to that you have a monster on your hands.

Same if you added Flair & Creativity to your complete forward.

But it would be ridiculous to have a great long list of attributes for every role from the get go as many of us are working thru the lower league and those players simply aren't available to us.

But once you are established at a high level you can start to get really choosy and 'flesh out' the roles according to how you want them to play.

[Mr U Rosler]

Hello, Rosler. Update: After being promoted 3 times in a Row with Rimini (started in Italy C2), I got to Serie A with a media prediction of 20th.

I am in December, currently 5th, I am very happy but I trust your work and will make the switch during the New Year's break.

My only fear with v2 is that you kept 'retain possession' in it. My huge success with S&S, with both Flamengo and Rimini, was based on a 'without retain possession' customization of mine. I'll give it another shot, though, so I can give proper feedback after the season ends.

I will also most likely create another customized version of S&S, with counter+direct passing, for when I face huge monsters who will have higher possession no matter what. I will also let you know how that goes as well.

'Retain possession' is only one the away/underdog tactic. Once you become established at the top level of the top division (which we all will sooner or later ) you will likely only start with that tactic 5 or 6 times a season.

You can of course 'tweak' to your liking.

[Timych]

Take the Box to Box midfielders.

I have suggested Passing, Work Rate, Tackling, Team work if you then add high Flair & Creativity to that you have a monster on your hands.

So, for b2b what is more important? Passing or Tackling?

[burnum]

After a couple of days playing with v2 I still don't realize much of a difference. I play with FC Bayern, we have by far the best squad in Germany. I've won the Bundesliga last season so the tactics work.

BUT: I'm still struggling to score a lot. I usually win my games 1-0 or 2-1 and I'm highly dependent on my CBs scoring from set pieces. For some reason I can't get my CF to score (yes, he has all the qualities you expect for that role, 18 acc, 18 pace, 16 fin, 17 comp, 4.5 stars overall). I will continue to use your tactic and not jump ship because I really like the basic setup of the tactic. But I somehow need to start scoring more goals from open play.

[Mr U Rosler]

So, for b2b what is more important? Passing or Tackling?

Tackling.

[Mr U Rosler]

After a couple of days playing with v2 I still don't realize much of a difference. I play with FC Bayern, we have by far the best squad in Germany. I've won the Bundesliga last season so the tactics work.

BUT: I'm still struggling to score a lot. I usually win my games 1-0 or 2-1 and I'm highly dependent on my CBs scoring from set pieces. For some reason I can't get my CF to score (yes, he has all the qualities you expect for that role, 18 acc, 18 pace, 16 fin, 17 comp, 4.5 stars overall). I will continue to use your tactic and not jump ship because I really like the basic setup of the tactic. But I somehow need to start scoring more goals from open play.

Not sure what to suggest. I was scoring well with Chelsea 89 league goals and pretty good with Norwich and i'm very free scoring in my current save although thats non-league so is obviously quite different.

You are not the first to mention this so I acknowledge that the problem does/can exist.

Difficult to analyze something i'm not seeing myself. Normally when a top striker is not scoring rather than question him i look at the supply of chances he's getting. perhaps your midfield could be more creative? How is your false 9 is he assisting & creating the chances he should be? I've notice a re-trained AMC does well in this role, i did it with Mata someone else with Ben Arfa. What are you full backs like, are they getting forward and putting good crosses in?

At elite level, which you are now, you need genuine quality in midfield. High passing, flair, creativity across all 3 roles. The MC/A is key as someone mentioned, Hazard was outstanding at Chelsea. A superstar here would help (you probably already have one).

Perhaps the German League is different, i'm not sure if their is a particular formation which gives you trouble? For sure every team will 'park the bus' against you but they did against my Chelsea team and we managed to get thru them.

Beyond that, there are limits in the ME at the moment and limits to what i as one individual can achieve.

Let me know if you get a 'break thru'.

[MTM1977]

Finally got a player who will be able to help with long throws.

A quite promising left back, with 17 on long throw attribute. Put him immediately to train flat bullet throw, hope he learns it quickly

[Mr U Rosler]

Finally got a player who will be able to help with long throws.

A quite promising left back, with 17 on long throw attribute. Put him immediately to train flat bullet throw, hope he learns it quickly

He will. You'll be in for a treat

[burnum]

Not sure what to suggest. I was scoring well with Chelsea 89 league goals and pretty good with Norwich and i'm very free scoring in my current save although thats non-league so is obviously quite different.

You are not the first to mention this so I acknowledge that the problem does/can exist.

Difficult to analyze something i'm not seeing myself. Normally when a top striker is not scoring rather than question him i look at the supply of chances he's getting. perhaps your midfield could be more creative? How is your false 9 is he assisting & creating the chances he should be? I've notice a re-trained AMC does well in this role, i did it with Mata someone else with Ben Arfa. What are you full backs like, are they getting forward and putting good crosses in?

At elite level, which you are now, you need genuine quality in midfield. High passing, flair, creativity across all 3 roles. The MC/A is key as someone mentioned, Hazard was outstanding at Chelsea. A superstar here would help (you probably already have one).

Perhaps the German League is different, i'm not sure if their is a particular formation which gives you trouble? For sure every team will 'park the bus' against you but they did against my Chelsea team and we managed to get thru them.

Beyond that, there are limits in the ME at the moment and limits to what i as one individual can achieve.

Let me know if you get a 'break thru'.

I was questioning my CF as well as his supporting cast but I can't find an answer. My team consists of a bunch of star players, here's an overview:

GK: Neuer - world class

DL: Alaba - world class

DR: Lahm - getting old but still solid

DCs: 2 young regens, one quick guy and one big guy who scores a lot from corners

DMC: Javi Martinez - fits the mold perfectly

BBM: Kroos and a regen who is a Brazil international - both are very good, maybe not world class

MCa: Nicusor Stanciu - has developed into one of the best players in the world. 18/19s all over the board, only lacks top speed/acc

F9: Götze - retrained from AMC, basically my version of Mata, Götze scored 17 last season, he's not the problem

CF: Giovanni Simeone - Argentina international, has everything you look for but still doesn't score a lot.

Stanciu, Götze, Alaba and my big centre back are my star players. Looking to maybe get a new DR & CF (if he won't start scoring).

[MTM1977]

CF: Giovanni Simeone - Argentina international, has everything you look for but still doesn't score a lot.

Have you taken private chat, criticise form and tell him that if he doesn't score, someone else will take his place?

That often helps for me, if striker isn't performing as expected.

edit:

Also, check his body language during matches. If he looks complacent, uninterested or nervous, then different methods in team talks are necessary for that guy.

[Mr U Rosler]

Ok, Season 1 with the Tonbridge 'Massive'. Things going well but cant shake off Eastleigh although i have 2 games in hand. With only 1 auto promotion place cant afford any slip ups.

[McPie]

Uwe,

Could you possibly recommend any PPMs for the roles within the team?

[Mr U Rosler]

Uwe,

Could you possibly recommend any PPMs for the roles within the team?

Will think about that. sometimes they do more harm than good.

I'd at least get your strikers doing something, Place shots or Hit with power if possible.

To be honest, even when they have these you'd be hard pressed to notice this in game at the moment.

[burnum]

Uwe,

Could you possibly recommend any PPMs for the roles within the team?

Ask your DR & DL to 'get forward whenever possible' and your F9 to 'come deep to get ball'.

I'd be interested to know which PPMs are well suited for the MCa and the BBMs.

[McPie]

I'm really glad you mentioned the "does more harm than good" comment. I've quite often found this.

Like most things I think when it works good it works great but when you learn a player a PPM it can often go horribly wrong (and it's not quick to reverse!)

Like Burnum I'm really curious about the midfielders. Strikers/defenders are quite guessable I suppose.

The B to B midfielders and the central midfielder have such varied roles, and at lower league level I feel like I could get that little bit extra out of them sometimes with a well placed PPM (or two) - providing the player is up to the job of the skill in question

[Mr U Rosler]

I dont think i'm going to allow myself to be drawn into this one at this point.

I think most PPM's are more player dependent than role dependent.

For example if your MC/A is quick and a good dribbler then 'knock ball past opponent' and 'run with ball' would make sense. But not everyone's MC/A will be suitable for that.

I think 'positional' PPM's are OK. i.e get further forward for MC/A and FB's and 'come deep' for F9.

[Sam Johnson]

To be honest, this is not working at all with Watford. I play the Rainmaker at home when favourites and Silk away and almost every game the other team reach 15 shots.

[Mr U Rosler]

To be honest, this is not working at all with Watford. I play the Rainmaker at home when favourites and Silk away and almost every game the other team reach 15 shots.

Not a massive amount to go on here.

When you say 'not working at all' could you elaborate. What is your media prediction and where are you in relation to that? As a tester i'm sure you're diligent enough to have run this for at least half a season?

Screenshots are always helpful even when its 'bad' news.

[burnum]

To be honest, this is not working at all with Watford. I play the Rainmaker at home when favourites and Silk away and almost every game the other team reach 15 shots.

Are the tactics fully fluid?

[Sam Johnson]

I am not a tester any more so I am not sure why that is still there! But yes, if I got that as a report when I was working there I would ask for a bit more!

So...media prediction is 4th. The Watford squad has a lot of talent to be honest, Troy Deeney is doing very well.

Was 13th in January but am now 5th in February...picked up a lot of wins. But it all seems very "fortunate", by that I mean there are a lot of games where I feel it should have been at least a draw i.e. they get 15 shots a match on average. I had a 5-0 home loss to Charlton and have no idea why that happened, no injuries to speak of for example.

Perhaps it is the nature of the Championship, everyone beating everyone etc

[Mr U Rosler]

I am not a tester any more so I am not sure why that is still there! But yes, if I got that as a report when I was working there I would ask for a bit more!

So...media prediction is 4th. The Watford squad has a lot of talent to be honest, Troy Deeney is doing very well.

Was 13th in January but am now 5th in February...picked up a lot of wins. But it all seems very "fortunate", by that I mean there are a lot of games where I feel it should have been at least a draw i.e. they get 15 shots a match on average. I had a 5-0 home loss to Charlton and have no idea why that happened, no injuries to speak of for example.

Perhaps it is the nature of the Championship, everyone beating everyone etc

Ok, i had a few heavy defeats out of the blue early on but not recently.

When you are on a good 'run' those 50/50 games do tend to go in your favour, but you probably have a bit more insight into that than me

Non league there are fewer shots per game 8 for me 4 for my opponent would be typical but the conversion rate is higher so you get some high scoring games.

When you say your opponent is getting 15 shots against you, if say 9 or 10 of those were long shots that would mean, to my eyes, the tactic is forcing them to shoot from distance so its working.

But perhaps I view everything through rose tinted glasses

[Mr U Rosler]

OK, thats Skrill South put to bed.

Predicted to finish 17th - won the division with 101 points and 108 goals scored in 42 games.

Complete Forward - 37 League Goals in 39 starts + 14 assists

False 9 - 20 goals and 12 assists in 35 starts. not bad considering his finishing is 4, pace 7, passing 7

Now to rip the team apart.......................

[jamesh2k]

right with blackpool got back to back promotions winning both league 1 and the championship by a considerable margain and scoring loads and not conceeding many, keep it going we all appreciate these tactics (Y)

got 20 mill to spend in the prem, and they have doubled the wage budget

[Cheesey1975]

am about to give it a go with a level 11 side

walsall wood

midland football alliance

part time etc

[widowmaker-]

Well ive just started February and after the shaky start we talked about the season has panned out well.

The 12 games unbeaten has lifted me to 6th in the prem after lurking around 10/12 at the start. My players looked lost but now ive just had Clyne win player of the month and Balanta won the young player along with me as manager of the month

This and i still feel i need 3 MC the progress my team. i play Lallana as CM with Ward-prowse and Honda as the BBM.

Just thought I'd share.

[burnum]

I've been playing with your Fulcrum tactics for a long time now (since ME 14.1 came out). All the different versions have always been very successful for me in various saves. BUT: I'm really starting to believe this tactic can only take you to a certain level and has its limits when you have a very dominating team. I've managed to turn SC Paderborn from an average Bundesliga 2 team (German 2nd Div) into a CL regular, even winning the Bundesliga title on one occasion. Then I switched teams and moved to FC Bayern, one of the best teams in the world and by far the strongest team in Germany. I've gotten a 160 million Euro transfer budget and transformed what already was a very good squad into a monster squad that should absolutely dominate the Bundesliga. Still the results I'm getting (halfway through my 2nd season with Bayern) are very similar to those I achieved with my (much lesser) Paderborn squad.

In conclusion I think this tactic has its weaknesses when it comes to dominating inferior competition. I can go to Bernabéu and beat Real Madrid 3-0 and then the next week I can only get a draw at home against Kaiserslautern or I lose at Stuttgart.

Don't get me wrong, this is the best tactic I've played so far in FM14 and I owe most of my success in various saves to this tactic and I really like the setup of the tactic (clear description what is needed for the positions). Still, when managing a dominant team which is by far the best in its respective league (like Bayern, PSG or Celtic) I think I might try some other tactics in the future.

Thoughts???

[Mr U Rosler]

Well ive just started February and after the shaky start we talked about the season has panned out well.

The 12 games unbeaten has lifted me to 6th in the prem after lurking around 10/12 at the start. My players looked lost but now ive just had Clyne win player of the month and Balanta won the young player along with me as manager of the month

This and i still feel i need 3 MC the progress my team. i play Lallana as CM with Ward-prowse and Honda as the BBM.

Just thought I'd share.

Well done mate, hang on in there and you ALWAYS get rewarded with a monster unbeaten run. Just have to keep the faith

[Mr U Rosler]

I've been playing with your Fulcrum tactics for a long time now (since ME 14.1 came out). All the different versions have always been very successful for me in various saves. BUT: I'm really starting to believe this tactic can only take you to a certain level and has its limits when you have a very dominating team. I've managed to turn SC Paderborn from an average Bundesliga 2 team (German 2nd Div) into a CL regular, even winning the Bundesliga title on one occasion. Then I switched teams and moved to FC Bayern, one of the best teams in the world and by far the strongest team in Germany. I've gotten a 160 million Euro transfer budget and transformed what already was a very good squad into a monster squad that should absolutely dominate the Bundesliga. Still the results I'm getting (halfway through my 2nd season with Bayern) are very similar to those I achieved with my (much lesser) Paderborn squad.

In conclusion I think this tactic has its weaknesses when it comes to dominating inferior competition. I can go to Bernabéu and beat Real Madrid 3-0 and then the next week I can only get a draw at home against Kaiserslautern or I lose at Stuttgart.

Don't get me wrong, this is the best tactic I've played so far in FM14 and I owe most of my success in various saves to this tactic and I really like the setup of the tactic (clear description what is needed for the positions). Still, when managing a dominant team which is by far the best in its respective league (like Bayern, PSG or Celtic) I think I might try some other tactics in the future.

Thoughts???

Burnum, I trust and value your opinion as i know you always tell the truth.

I agree with a squad of world class players and these tactics you should dominate your league.

The tactics are clearly great for moving thru the leagues, evidence for that is everywhere. I smashed the Prem with Chelsea who are a 'big rep' team and i didnt encounter difficulties at all, someone won the Prem season 1 with Newcastle which makes your issues perplexing.

I think you should try some other tactics, perhaps Mr Houghs to see if that resolves your issues. I'd be interested in your progress.

Things may change post patch, there does seem to be a bias towards underdogs and counter attacking in this build which may be working against you.

good luck & god bless

[burnum]

Burnum, I trust and value your opinion as i know you always tell the truth.

I agree with a squad of world class players and these tactics you should dominate your league.

The tactics are clearly great for moving thru the leagues, evidence for that is everywhere. I smashed the Prem with Chelsea who are a 'big rep' team and i didnt encounter difficulties at all, someone won the Prem season 1 with Newcastle which makes your issues perplexing.

I think you should try some other tactics, perhaps Mr Houghs to see if that resolves your issues. I'd be interested in your progress.

Things may change post patch, there does seem to be a bias towards underdogs and counter attacking in this build which may be working against you.

good luck & god bless

Before maybe switching to another tactic I'll finish my current season with Bayern (probably tomorrow) because I don't want to change tactics in the middle of a season. Maybe I'll try out some other tactics then and get back to you with the results.

As you've mentioned the patch - any idea when the patch might come out?

[burnum]

Do you think it could help to switch Rainmaker v2 to 'Much higher tempo' and 'Be more expressive' when teams are parking the bus and I'm dominating? Tried it in 2 matches against weak teams (Dresden & 1860 Munich) and I've won both games 4-1. Could backfire and open up chances for opposing counter attacks, though.

[drhay53]

So just an update and some thoughts from me.

I started with Bath in Skrill South and won the league by 20 points with over 100 goals. It was an easy season. Also won the FA Trophy. In the Skrill Premier, I had a horrible October/November slump and left the FAT and FA Cup early. After one particularly tough loss an "unlucky" team talk worked to perfection and we won 9 out of the next 10 games (I also started using the 2 tactics differently, as I'll explain in a minute). Late in the season we were challenging for the league title, behind the league leader by only 6 points after previously being behind by 17 only a month earlier. Even though they had a run of bad form, 2 straight draws eliminated us. But on the last day of the season a late goal in a different game gave us the 2nd place finish. We were predicted 22nd and made only two signings in the mid-season window.

We breezed through the first playoff round, but in the final we were down 2-0 at halftime. I was mentally preparing for another year in the Skrill Premier, but we amazingly scored 3 second half goals with Rainmaker to win promotion to league 2. After 11 games we're sitting 7th.

The way I've used the tactics as a massive underdog:

Away: Silk & Steel.

Home: Rainmaker only if we're favorites with odds better than 2.00. Silk & Steel otherwise. Very rarely Rainmaker.

U Rosler's instructions for the 2nd half if winning or behind.

I have found that Rainmaker is not very effective as a starting tactic for my squad, frequently losing games that I should win. With Silk and Steel, we usually win in the end. Sometimes we don't score until 70 minutes in, but I prefer that to conceding early and chasing the game, which is what usually happens to me with Rainmaker. Keep in mind my team is still full of part-timers so I'm sure one day Rainmaker will work for me. But for now I extremely rarely use it as a starting tactic.

[Nesrevi]

This is an amazing tactic...I just finished my season with Tottenham and lost a total of 5 games in all competitions..Only changed to Silk and Steel somethings, the rest i play with Rainmaker..

Won the PL, Europa League, FA Cup and League Cup..Im sure as hell sticking with this

[powelly-lad02]

Decided to set myself a new challenge after getting Leeds promoted.

Went back to Vauxhall who i had previously used with my own tactics before losing the save to an old computer.

So far doing an incredible job!

22 games 17 wins 5 draws scoring 49 goals and conceding 22 with 56 points, 12 ahead of second place.

Got knocked out of the FA Cup in the first round by Coventry, losing 1nil at home, and about to go into a replay for the FA Trophy 2nd round against Lincoln so will be interesting to see how we go. I have predominately been using S&S and grinding out matches which is looking pretty good. Lets hope the team who were expected to finish 22nd can win the title!

[Mr U Rosler]

Do you think it could help to switch Rainmaker v2 to 'Much higher tempo' and 'Be more expressive' when teams are parking the bus and I'm dominating? Tried it in 2 matches against weak teams (Dresden & 1860 Munich) and I've won both games 4-1. Could backfire and open up chances for opposing counter attacks, though.

Definately worth a prolonged test. Might be ideal for elite teams.

[jimbob1000]

Hey Rosler, having tried just about every tactic going since patch 14.2 onwards i came back to yours.

Your tactics have NEVER let me down, but i tended not to use them simply because of the formation and the fact that i like to play as West Ham and i don't have the personnel in the first season(not enough strikers, too many wingers)

So i decided to have a go with Cardiff.

My problem with EVERY save i've attempted since 14.2 is that it keeps producing these kind of results.................

I'm not talking now and again either, i'm talking up to 80% of matches played.

As you can see Chelsea made just 1 chance to my 7 and they scored 4 goals???????????????????????

I am NOT blaming the tactics, but i wondered if there could be anything I'M doing wrong? as this is happening in every single saved game i have played since patch 14.2.

I also tried Mr Hough's new tactic with exactly the same issues.

I'm at the point of quitting FM for good, but thought i'd ask here first whether it could be something i'm doing wrong that will stop these kinds of results happening constantly?

Thanks

[lil ole me]

I have had great success using the other versions of your tactic Rosler, even if i was using Man Utd, by 2020 was here it was purely my own players and was constantly winning everything.

I felt i needed a new challenge and resigned.

I was unemployed for 6 months and have just been approached by newly promoted Norwich who i have just found out,have just been taken over by a tycoon ......Now to make Norwich the 'new' Man Utd.

So far, so good.....we were predicted to finish 11th

[Finknottle]

Mr Rosler, Might I be allowed to tell you of my thoughts about the two tactics, please? I've been messing around until the January update/patch is released. I used tactics of my own and your two, so I haven't got further than the first season with any. My tactics don't matter but feedback for yours certainly does and these are my thoughts.

In the Skrill League, using Southport, I found S&S first class. getting Southport into the play offs. Not bad considering their projected finish of bottom. However, I found things different using Liverpool, should finish 6th.

Using your thread instructions, I found that LFC were some players short of your prerequisites and with only £19 million to get in two or three top players plus wages etc, it meant that I could get in only two and they were cover for Enrique, so I could offload Cissokho, due to his wages and Moses, same.

Out of twelve league games I won only three and lost five, albeit to Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchesters City and United and Tottenham. This got me thinking that S&S and Rainmaker2 are, at present, superb at getting your team to near the top of the Premiership. It seems, to me at least, that unless you have the ability to bring in absolute top players your tactics reach their ceiling.

There appear to be two ways forward from here, especially with regard to LFC. The first is to try to get the required amount of money for transfers and wages to bring in the players required. Not easy, as keeps being proven IRL, with LFC.

The second is to improve your first class tactics. I'm glad that I don't have to do that. I wouldn't know where to start, so I shall happily leave you to do that. Hee! Hee! If you find that my remarks are out of order, please forgive me and 'file' them. Kind regards.

[burnum]

Out of twelve league games I won only three and lost five, albeit to Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchesters City and United and Tottenham. This got me thinking that S&S and Rainmaker2 are, at present, superb at getting your team to near the top of the Premiership. It seems, to me at least, that unless you have the ability to bring in absolute top players your tactics reach their ceiling.

There appear to be two ways forward from here, especially with regard to LFC. The first is to try to get the required amount of money for transfers and wages to bring in the players required. Not easy, as keeps being proven IRL, with LFC.

The second is to improve your first class tactics. I'm glad that I don't have to do that. I wouldn't know where to start, so I shall happily leave you to do that. Hee! Hee! If you find that my remarks are out of order, please forgive me and 'file' them. Kind regards.

I think it's just the other way round. The tactics are great at all levels unless you want to reach the absolute top. Countless users have proven that you can turn an average team into a league champion with this tactic in the right circumstances. Luck always plays a role - even small things can make a big difference (e.g. dominating all game but conceding a late equalizer or conceding an early red card to your star midfielder - things like that can change the outcome of a game, thus affect morale and affect the entire season). I think I could turn most teams into a league contender (top 3-5) pretty quickly. What I constantly struggle with is to dominate lesser opponents (those easy games when you should win big but only come up with a scrappy 2-1 or even a draw, despite having 22-3 shots on goal and 60 percent possession).

As for Liverpool, you're probably a bit short-handed in midfield for this tactic but you have a lot of good centre backs. I suggest using (and retraining) one of your centre backs at the DMC position (maybe Agger or Touré). They fit the mold as a big, physical destroyer in midfield and it frees up Lucas to move to one of the BBM roles.

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr Rosler, Might I be allowed to tell you of my thoughts about the two tactics, please? I've been messing around until the January update/patch is released. I used tactics of my own and your two, so I haven't got further than the first season with any. My tactics don't matter but feedback for yours certainly does and these are my thoughts.

In the Skrill League, using Southport, I found S&S first class. getting Southport into the play offs. Not bad considering their projected finish of bottom. However, I found things different using Liverpool, should finish 6th.

Using your thread instructions, I found that LFC were some players short of your prerequisites and with only £19 million to get in two or three top players plus wages etc, it meant that I could get in only two and they were cover for Enrique, so I could offload Cissokho, due to his wages and Moses, same.

Out of twelve league games I won only three and lost five, albeit to Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchesters City and United and Tottenham. This got me thinking that S&S and Rainmaker2 are, at present, superb at getting your team to near the top of the Premiership. It seems, to me at least, that unless you have the ability to bring in absolute top players your tactics reach their ceiling.

There appear to be two ways forward from here, especially with regard to LFC. The first is to try to get the required amount of money for transfers and wages to bring in the players required. Not easy, as keeps being proven IRL, with LFC.

The second is to improve your first class tactics. I'm glad that I don't have to do that. I wouldn't know where to start, so I shall happily leave you to do that. Hee! Hee! If you find that my remarks are out of order, please forgive me and 'file' them. Kind regards.

Thanks for the feedback.

With all due respect 12 league games is not a big enough test. I did a full season with Chelsea and a full season with Norwich which is a 76 game test.

So far guys on here have won the EPL season 1 with Tottenham and Newcastle as well as my comfortable win with Chelsea.

Yet I know its possible that in the short term, or even over a full season things can conspire against you to such an extent that you fall below your expectations. I even got sacked as Stockport manager in one early save after I was 14th after 9 games with an expectation of 3rd. I reloaded and got them from non league to Premier League in 8 seasons.

There will be variance amongst saves as there is more to the game than simply plugging in tactics.

There are a set of guys at FM base who have a testing league, they've pretty much had to abandon it as they have conducted tests of the same tactics twice and regularly find a 40 point variance over a season from one test to the next. 90 points one season, 50 points the next. A jump from 1st place to 14th place in a twenty team league.

I know this is not the case with yourself, but there are certain forum users who 'test' tactics and abandon them as soon as they run into any trouble. We are all great managers when we are winning, its when you face trouble that you 'earn your crust' and the men are separated from the boys. These individuals never get a long term save off the ground and are destined to continually fail. In fact the game to them becomes one of testing every new tactic until it loses a game and declaring it a failure. As i say, i know this is not the case with yourself.

Its very tempting to me to abandon my Tonbridge project and 'jump on' any team where the tactic doesn't apparently work, Liverpool, Dortmund etc and prove that it can! But i'll never win that way there will always be more teams than i can possibly test.

Point is for every person 'it doesnt' work their are 5 that find it does work. The fulcrum series is approaching 10,000 downloads, as people with negative experiences tend to be more vocal than those with positive experiences I like to think their is a silent majority out there who are happy with what they've got

[burnum]

In my personal opinion, the Fulcrum is THE best tactic for FM14 at the moment (and believe me, I've tested a lot of them). Like every tactic it can be exposed at times and sometimes it's frustrating to dominate games and still not score a lot and then conceding on a lone counter attack.

Is it perfect? Probably not. You will lose some games, that's football. So let's try to find those last missing pieces to make it even better...

[Gareth Winter]

First of all a massive congrats and thanks Mr Rosler for you hard work and fantastic tactics.

I've been lurking in here for a while mainly due to the fact i like to play the LLM way and normally use my own tactics so should never really be anywhere near this forum . I stumbled across this tactic as it was similar to my own and what i was trying to achieve, but way more consistent. I'd been promoted and relegated and sacked twice due to my tactic not being consistent enough.

I will post a full update when i get home tonight and screenshots if i can. But using S&S and Rainmaker (Both versions) i have been able to take Bath City from the Skrill South all the way to the premier league. Finished 11th in my first season in the prem where i was predicted to finish bottom by a mile with no budgets etc. I really dont understand where people have all of their issues with this tactic as i have never had any at all. I dont even follow the player guides for it to be honest. Just use my scouts star ratings, and a bit of common sense.

[Kingstontom88]

Enjoying these tactics immensely. Had been promoted with Shrewsbury from League One, started the Championship in terrible form losing 7 of my opening 8 games but your tactics have helped me pull into the playoffs at the end of the season - beat Reading over 2 legs then edge out Brighton in the Playoff Final on penalties to get into the Premier League.

Very much looking forward to getting the squad sorted this summer so can finally get the perfect players for the positions. Great work!

[Mr U Rosler]

Reading between the lines on other threads i think with the new update we will see more of a distinction between high & low attributes and therefore good and bad players.

World class players will 'stand out' and act/behave more like world class players.

at the moment someone with 12 acc/pace can somehow keep up with someone with 18 acc/pace. my striker with 4 finishing scored 22 league goals from the F9 position last season.

Its like the attributes dont really make that much of a difference and everyone is a bit 'samey'.

It should help out the likes Burnum with his superstar team. It may have implications for those of us finding it simple to move up the divisions at the moment.

But thats the way it should be. Players win matches.

On a plus note it might mean recruiting to our key attributes is much more relevant than it is at the moment and will enable those of use with weaker teams to compete with the big boys in the division.

[widowmaker-]

^^^^^

In full agreement in regards to the player attributes. It would be great to sign a player because he's a speedster and then finding out you can't utilize his best attributes. Do you ever get tired of bringing a player in with all the looks of a top goal scorer only to find yourself moving him on 2 seasons later. Im aware this happens IRL but not to the same extent. I also get a buzz from bringing a player that is 'above my station' to a lower club it feels like ive achieved something but when they fail to live up to there attributes it just leaves me deflated. I keep my fingers crossed that the change will happen.

[Finknottle]

Mr Rosler, there was a good reason my season lasted only twelve games. Those pesky 'yanks' sacked me. Honestly! Hee! Hee!

[burnum]

It should help out the likes Burnum with his superstar team. It may have implications for those of us finding it simple to move up the divisions at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, climbing up through the leagues with a small club is usually what I've been doing on most saves for years. At the moment I just felt like changing it up a bit and going after the crown jewels with the big boys for once. I can already smell myself leaving Bayern and move to a smaller club in another country in the future, but first I want to try dominate European football like Bayern do in real life at the moment. Already checking vacancies on my save...

[GJHowell]

In my personal opinion, the Fulcrum is THE best tactic for FM14 at the moment (and believe me, I've tested a lot of them). Like every tactic it can be exposed at times and sometimes it's frustrating to dominate games and still not score a lot and then conceding on a lone counter attack.

Is it perfect? Probably not. You will lose some games, that's football. So let's try to find those last missing pieces to make it even better...

I agree with this. I said earlier in this thread (I think) that these are the most consistent tactics I've come across so far, and I think my frustrations are more with the match engine than the tactic.

I must admit though, I struggle to get anything like the return from my strikers that others are getting, and the ratings my players are getting are very average...but, I am getting results, so I guess I shouldn't be too picky!

Had a falling out with the board in my Bohemians save over the future direction of the club, so in a fit of pique I resigned - however, managed to then get the Scunthorpe job in League 2 - took over in 17th with the board expecting play-offs at the end of the season, and so farit's going ok. Luckily they have a bit of a transfer budget, and have managed to make some capacity in the wage budget, to line up a couple of deals for when the January window opens (November at present), so I'm hoping that will help us kick on.