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  1. Could you explain the differences between a FB on attack and a WB on support? I understand that a WB offers better support going forward whereas a FB starts from a deeper position. My theory always was that a FB on attack duty bombs forward as soon as he sees the chance, although he starts from a very deep position. Basically he needs to be able to run up and down the flank all game. In comparison I always thought a WB on support duty starts a bit higher in his basic position but doesn't bomb forward as far and as often (due to being on support duty and not attack duty). Obviously my logic is flawed. Could you explain what the difference is between those positions?
  2. @Experienced Defender I could really need your help here... After some testing, the Regista system seems to work half-decently but the Halfback system is completely useless.
  3. I'm trying to make 2 versions of a 433 work (4141 DM Wide in exact FM terms, but it plays like a 433). The 2 systems look similar on paper but there's a big difference in how they (should) play. I'm testing both systems with Bayern. They're the strongest team in the German league, they have the squad to play a possession based 433. If I can't make it work with Bayern, I'm basically lost and shouldn't bother trying with other teams... What am I trying to achieve? - 2 different tactics from the same shape/formation to attack opponents in different ways - functional possession: Winning games is, of course, the main goal. But we want to play in a dominant way. I don't need to completely dominate possession but I'd prefer if we kept 50+ percent possession in most games. Being dangerous but also keeping possession a bit. - replicate the way Bayern have generally played over the last decade under Van Gaal, Guardiola, Heynckes and now Flick (I'm aware there are differences in how they played under the different managers but the general emphasis on 'dominant football', patient buildup until an opening comes up has always been the same). Both systems employ 'Positive' mentality and a split pressing block. All front 5 players (with the exception of Thiago) have a PI to press more. I use 'dribble more' and 'be more expressive' (both only apply to the attacking phase in the final third) as it suits my players. But this is not something I insist on. If it helps to enhance performance, I'm more than willing to change this. Non negotiables in the playing style: - Play out of defense - GK distribution to defenders & fullbacks - Work ball into box - The use of either a 433 or 4231 system Here are my 2 systems: The first one (433 Halfback) spreads the ball around with a Playmaker and attacks the opponent on the flanks. The second one (433 Regista) makes use of a creative passer from deep to funnels the buildup inside to the Regista. 433 Halfback: A HB to protect the 2 CB, while both FB run up and down the flanks to provide natural overlaps on the wings (thus no additional overlap TI). Thiago as the focal point in MF in as the sole playmaker and a BBM next to him to provide runs from the center. Both wings on support duty as they should provide double-teams with the attacking Fullbacks. However, Gnabry is a bit more of a finisher (IF role) while Coman is more of a dribbler/creator, so I have him as a IW. Lewandowski can basically morph into any role you want him to play, but for a possession based style I thought a deeper role like DLF-a should do well. The idea is to attack teams down the flanks and use Thiago in a central role to spread the ball around. Maybe I should add 'focus play down left/right flank' TI with the natural overlaps on the wings? 433 Regista: Same TI as above but different roles. Thiago is in a Regista role and should be THE focal point of our buildup play (think Xabi Alonso or Pirlo). He's basically our Quarterback. Both Fullbacks are in IWB roles to screen and protect the Regista. In front of the Regista are 2 runners from deep who should attack space between the lines. Müller has 20 'off the ball' and outstanding mentals in general, with 18 'stamina' and 19 'natural fitness', so he can run up and down the seams all game. With Müller in an attacking role to create overloads on the left with Coman, I've set Gnabry to an attacking duty on the right. Lewandowski remains in his DLF role. Maybe I should add 'focus play through the middle' TI with the Regista and both IWB in central areas? That was my way of thinking. So far the results have been fairly poor, so I need your help to improve both tactical setups. At the moment I'm struggling even against teams like Köln or Paderborn (1-1 in both games, with around 42 percent possession). What am I doing wrong? What do I have to change to make it work?
  4. That sounds exactly what I'm looking for and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Feel free to teach me/us - whether in this thread or in an own related topic...
  5. Ok, switched wingers to IW-s (AML) and IF-a (AMR) and changed width back to normal. In addition I changed LOE from normal to higher to help with possession numbers. Switched to your suggested Mezzala/RPM duo. Mezzala at support duty for the moment but might switch to attack if I don't get enough runs up front. I do understand that tactics should be measured by goals scored against goals conceded first and foremost and chances created against chances conceded to a lesser extend. My obsession with possession numbers is just a personal pet-peeve because I like dominant possession football since Louis van Gaal brought that kind of football to Bayern ten years ago (which was followed up by Heynckes and Guardiola). I simply like it and so I try to make it work on FM20. But I do realise I might be a bit 'nerdy' about it ;-) Don't get me wrong - I don't want pure possession. I want a tactic (preferably a 4123, but a 4231 would also be ok) that combines possession football with a lot of created chances and solid defense. I'm not sure if that's possible, but that's exactly why I'm asking for help. With the tweaks mentioned above I beat Leverkusen 2-0 at home after two late goals. 15-8 shots, 4-2 CCC but only 50/50 possession.
  6. @Experienced Defender You've helped me achieving my goal of being able to defeat those 532 formations. Even better, you've shown me a way to make my tactics more efficient through better (more balanced) defense. If I could ask for one more favour - let's try to turn this 4123 base into a possession-heavy tactics. Basically I'm looking for Guardiola-style football in a tactic that works on FM20. I can't seem to get possession numbers in the 60+ percent region. So let's kind of evolve this topic to 'I need help to make a possession-style 4123 work' ;-) Here's my first take: Reasoning behind it: Team Instructions: Playing with Bayern I am heavy favourits in most matches, thus Positive mentality. Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defense and Work Ball Into Box were chosen to increase possession and create a slow buildup. Extremely wide width was chosen to stretch defenses as far as possible and create space inside or in the half-spaces. GK Distribution to CB or FB was chosen to stop GK hoofing it and build-up from the back. I added Counter-Press to instruct my players to try to get the ball back quickly if it's lost (kind of like Guardiola's 6-second-rule). Higher DL and Offside Trap should go hand in hand, especially with pacey defenders like Hernandez & Süle (both have 17 pace). Also set up a split press with more pressing by my front 5. I purposely left out Be More Expressive to use it more on a situational basis whenever I struggle to break down a defense. In a pure Guardiola-style tactic it should probably be added. Roles: SK-s: High DL with offside trap on positive mentality needs a keeper who is aggressive sweeping out of his box. Neuer is the perfect fit for the role. Might even go with SK-a as long as I have Neuer. CD-d: Both centre-backs in a normal role. I don't want BPD to avoid the long balls. Just move the ball to midfield (or the IWBs) and defend... IWB-s: Both wing-back in an inverted role to create Pep's famous W-shape in the back-5. The IWBs are basically wider defensive midfielders. DM-s: Still undecided on this role, so I left it as a pretty generic role. Also thought about using a Halfback against good teams or against teams with 2 true strikers. Also thought about a Regista against lesser teams. AP-s: The David Silva role; playmaker with forward runs and a creative passing outlet. BBM-s: The Kevin de Bruyne role; a bit deeper than the AP and also takes on more defensive duties. Thought about RPM-s but I wanted to avoid 2 playmakers next to each other. Does that make sense? W-s & W-a: Stretch the defense as wide as possible, basically touchline players with the license to find space. Midfield setup could create overloads on left, so AMR is set to attack duty to finish off. F9-s: Drop deep and drag defenders out of position to create space for the wingers and midfielders to attack. With all that laid out - it doesn't work. 42 percent possession at home against a decent but still clearly inferior Leverkusen side has nothing to do with possession-oriented football. What am I doing wrong?
  7. Ok, so results basically show how effective a tactic is when simulating ('holidaying') games. How much does that correlate with actually playing the games?
  8. Not exactly an expert opinion but I do have a question about your testing. How do you play out the games? Do you actually play all the games, do you use 'Instant Result' or do go on holliday?
  9. I've had the same exact problem and discussed it in this thread:
  10. Thanks, I had my striker set to press more anyway. Now also added the BBM and both wingers (IF/IW), let's see if it improves performance and/or possession... If in need of a goal I usually change the AMR (usually Gnabry) from IF-s to IF-a. And I also change the role of the DMC based on opponent formation and in-game situation. Usually start him as either DM-s or DM-d (for tough away games), sometimes change him to HB-d if my opponent plays 2 true strikers. He's basically my "wildcard role" - the one role I change from game to game. One position I'm currently not overly happy with is the striker role. I have him set as CF-a because it suits Lewandowski's skill set. But whenever Lewa is not on the field (injured or rested) his replacement seems to struggle (as they're not really 'complete' forwards). My backups are Müller and youngster Arp. I've even experimented with Coutinho as a F9-s but it didn't work at all.
  11. LOE higher or standard doesn't make too much of a difference in terms of possession, maybe 2-3 percent. Could you explain what you mean with 'split block'?
  12. Ok, back testing yesterday's tweaks after getting help from @Experienced Defender. This is how my tactic looks now (after the tweaks): And this is what happened in my very first game after the tweaks: Won 6-0 at Augsburg, even with resting some of my regular starters. Stats show we were the better team but not completely dominant (22-15 shot, 7-4 CCC), so the result was probably higher than the stats would suggest. Possession was up from 40 to 49 percent but I'd still prefer higher possession. In a perfect world we could build a tactic from my 4123 base which gives me good results, realistic play and 60+ percent possession on average. Now it's time to find out if the result was due to the tweaks really working well or just a lucky one-off performance...
  13. Again, thanks for your advice. My thought behind the Dribble Less TI was to replicate the Guardiola style to a certain extend with a shorter passing game and heavy ball-circulation. I had my IF/IW (Coutinho/Coman left, Gnabry right) on PI to Dribble More. Will now implement some of your suggested tweaks to increase possession: - switched AP from attack to support - removed 'Dribble Less', only put a PI on my DM to dribble less (both centre-backs have it hardcoded already) - removed 'Counter' - removed 'Be More Expressive' with the option of turning it back on during a game if in need of a goal I'm not touching LOE at this time but that would be the next step if possession numbers are still too low. Will see how it all works together once I get back from work tomorrow afternoon. Thank you, you've been incredibly helpful.
  14. @Experienced Defender Thanks for your suggestions, they really helped a lot (from a small sample-size of 5 test games against Hoffenheim). Switching to a mid block really helped defensively. My testing with your suggested changes showed that my 'normal' base tactic (with the Wingbacks and IW/IF) somehow works better against that 532 than my Guardiola-inspired '532-beater' tactic (with IWB and Wingers). In theory that doesn't really make sense to me but as long as I've found a way to be successful against the 532 I'm content. Now one thing that still needs improvement after the changes to mid-block is possession. At home with Bayern against Hoffenheim I only average around 40 percent (should be more around 60 percent with Bayern at home). Don't get me wrong, your tweaks to my tactics have been tremendous - they just changed the way my team plays. Here are some ideas of how I might try to improve possession numbers (my board wants possession football as part of the club vision - and to be honest, I like possession football): - lower mentality to Balanced (do I still have enough urgency to break down defensive/cautious teams?) - lower tempo (not sure about lower tempo paired with shorter passing) - remove 'Be More Expressive' (although I think I have the right players to use it to my advantage with Thiago & Coutinho) - remove 'Counter' in transition (does it rob me of some some good chances?) Any ideas how to tweak the tactic to get possession up into the 50-60 percent range (Bayern averaged around 63 percent in real life last season)?
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