Getting The Best Out of Lone Striker?... discussion.

[Bigshow1985]

i have played fm for years right back to the earliest championship manager days, and loved and succeeded in every game eventually, as i like to fiddle about with classic tactics until i find a formula that works best for different scenarios. but this year i held off playing fm until it had been patched up and was more a ''complete'' game.

so far i have almost got things how i want them tactically but there is one thing i am finding hard to get right and not sure if its a problem widespread or if im missing something, and that would be GETTING THE BEST OUT OF A LONE STRIKER.

I am Tottenham and finished 5th first season and have two top quality strikers in Edison Cavani and Radamel Falcao. Although i have two quality opperatos up top to choose from i find that at times the movement, forward runs and willingness of the strikers in FM13 is pretty limited, and thats with upping forward runs to OFTEN OR MIXED, free roles and high creative freedom. neither seems to make a difference. i have even tried using them as target men with run onto ball etc and nothing seems to work that well. i also find that wingers even with through ball on OFTEN they run with it and look to get shots off at goal before looking for any striker.

so my question is this, has anyone else had these problems with lone strikers not getting into enough opportunities in goal scoring situations? and if so ifd like to see how if it all you combated the problem.

many thanks in advance.

[achilles-the-victorious]

Lone in what sense? Completely alone? Like 4-5-1, but no midfield support runs, alone? Personally, I had great success in my most recent season getting goals from across the entire squad, almost (fullbacks still score very few, as they are tasked with staying back even on attacking set pieces).

My top scorer was my main striker, a powerful striker, pretty good leap, great header, with a bit of flair and dribbling ability. 14 pace + acc. Played up top as the lone striker, in a 3-4-3, but there was an AMC (Advanced Playmaker) and two wingers (one support, one attacking) helping out, not to mention fullbacks getting forward, and the occasional run from midfield.

He actually was tied for top scorer with my AMC, who also managed 14, from about 26 league appearances. Not great, but the team managed 108, so the goals were coming from all parts, like I said.

[Bigshow1985]

yeah im playing with a lone striker with two wingers and 3 central midfielders with two more attacking minded to get forward and support the ''front 3'', with one holding and shielding the two centre backs from counter attacks. i just find that strikers in the game as a whole dont look to get in behind defenders and seem very static at times and ball watch. i had cavani in the last fm and he was always looking to get in the channels of defenders and more impportantly with runs forward on often he would be looking to make runs in behind. and i have tried everything to my knowledge that i would have done in fm over the years to get my forwards more attacking minded.

[SpartyOn]

Try the opposite. Give your lone striker a support duty. I'd go complete forward/support for Cavani.

The problem is that by making your lone striker more and more attack-minded, you're isolating him more and more from the rest of play. All he's looking to do is make that last run behind the defense. Let him come deep to get the ball, drag defenders out of position and play teammates in. It will give your whole offense better movement and flow, and your striker will still score plenty.

[achilles-the-victorious]

Try the opposite. Give your lone striker a support duty. I'd go complete forward/support for Cavani.

The problem is that by making your lone striker more and more attack-minded, you're isolating him more and more from the rest of play. All he's looking to do is make that last run behind the defense. Let him come deep to get the ball, drag defenders out of position and play teammates in. It will give your whole offense better movement and flow, and your striker will still score plenty.

Admittedly this is something SI was trying to tone down, the through ball to the pacy lone striker. So no matter what you won't have the same success with this strategy as you would have had in earlier versions of FM (like FM11, for e.g.)

[Bigshow1985]

i dont have him on high mentality, i alter his mentality to drop deep if the opposition isnt players a defensive midfielder as there is room for him to operate in and will give him a higher mentality if they do play a DM. i just find at times when your midefielders or wingers have the ball in decent position for a through ball the striker at times seems very immobile and doesnt look to get in behind defenders enough. most goals seem to come from crosses for strikers in fm13.

[Sussex Hammer]

I play classic tactics so not sure how the TC would play this but I play a 4-4-1-1 and a 4-1-4-1 and had major issues with a lone striker. However I then withdrew his mentality to the same level as my AM and the whole team defends very well now and attacks as a unit. Not scoring loads striker wise but the rest of the team pitches in and Fletcher has 13 and Carroll about 8 I think so if they end up as 16 and 11 that's probably reasonable for mid table strikers.

[agentvinz]

Try the opposite. Give your lone striker a support duty. I'd go complete forward/support for Cavani.

The problem is that by making your lone striker more and more attack-minded, you're isolating him more and more from the rest of play. All he's looking to do is make that last run behind the defense. Let him come deep to get the ball, drag defenders out of position and play teammates in. It will give your whole offense better movement and flow, and your striker will still score plenty.

What happen if I have poacher like Gomez, Chicharito etc who can only score? I don't think giving them support duty make sense?

[hursty2]

What happen if I have poacher like Gomez, Chicharito etc who can only score? I don't think giving them support duty make sense?

You shouldn't, in theory, be playing them as a lone striker. Poachers prefer to have a player to play off.

[wwfan]

Generally, poachers don't offer enough all round play to be a good lone striker. Nor do target men. AFs can be effective if they range ahead of an AMC, but will be isolated without this high central support.

[yonko]

I agree. Strikers like Gomez, Chicharito, etc. who can only score, require the use of a AMC behind them or a combination with another striker. Strikers suited to playing the lone role require more versatile attributes and qualities.

[Kenco]

Try the opposite. Give your lone striker a support duty. I'd go complete forward/support for Cavani.

The problem is that by making your lone striker more and more attack-minded, you're isolating him more and more from the rest of play. All he's looking to do is make that last run behind the defense. Let him come deep to get the ball, drag defenders out of position and play teammates in. It will give your whole offense better movement and flow, and your striker will still score plenty.

This is good advice. I play a DLF on support duty (Suarez/Jovetic) in my 4231. My three AM players are all on attack, so my striker will drop deep and make space for the others to get in to. My strikers currently have about 10 goals in 12 this season while my left wing has 12 in 12 and right wing has about 7 in 12.

I would try not to focus too much on getting the best out of one position, but to get the best out of your team as a whole.

[yaşar]

Kenco could you write it down your hole tactic roles pls gk,dr,dl...

[Bigshow1985]

with a few tweaks after looking at the players preffered moves who i am playing AML, AMR and STC i altered their creative freedom to suit. considering i am only in my second season and i only had cavani from january in first season and falcao only since end of first season, i have decided to see how they will play once they learn the language of english. i havent really considered it to really hinder a player too much in previous fm's but this fm may be slightly different. i do remember reading somewhere SI were going to make it more like real life football so this may be the problem with my strikers at the moment. i will get back and let you's know if i think this may be the problem.

[Timothy.]

I think the issue BigShow is a couple of things

1. Firstly they altered the match engine this year so that wheras before a striker could easily run past the defence onto a throughball, this year it is meant to be more realistic in that they have to run round the cb's therefore needing quite a lot of space.

2. You are playing with Spurs 2nd or 3rd season, and have managed to sign Cavani and Falcao therefore you must be doing pretty well, I imagine the opposition are sitting quite deep against you. This means there would naturally be less space to run in behind. I'd be tempted to play Falcao on Advanced forward and Cavani as AMR with mixed runs forward, high run with the ball and limited through balls, no cross ball. That means that Falcao would drag the cb's back and Cavani and Bale would have lots of room to run into through the centre. They can then play the ball into Falcao there with neat interplay or get into a shooting position.

It's a difficult one because my whole system revolves playing the lone striker with a Treq and Adebayor was doing pretty well with it, but I was 7 points clear in January and I couldn't resists signing Falcao, but he doesn't play the same role as well, so I'm trying to tweak this forward role as well!.

[tommonufc]

Generally, poachers don't offer enough all round play to be a good lone striker. Nor do target men. AFs can be effective if they range ahead of an AMC, but will be isolated without this high central support.

I agree. Strikers like Gomez, Chicharito, etc. who can only score, require the use of a AMC behind them or a combination with another striker. Strikers suited to playing the lone role require more versatile attributes and qualities.

Would disagree with this wholeheartedly. I've had great success playing a poacher from a 4-1-4-1 - the definitive answer is more down to getting support to that player.

If your playing a defensive/counter approach, with no runners coming from your midfield, your loan poacher will struggle.

But I've played a pretty open, attacking approach, with two inside forwards, an attacking midfielder, and advanced forward in a 4-1-4-1, and a poacher played as a loan striker hasn't struggled at all.

The poacher was Adam Campbell, in the 3rd season, so far from a well-rounded player in terms of creativity, and very little physical presence.

[achilles-the-victorious]

Not to be a right *****, but isn't that a 4-2-3-1 you are describing? With an AMC, two inside forwards, and a lone striker?

I set up my attack the same way, except with winger duties instead of inside forwards, everyone gets among the goals.

Would disagree with this wholeheartedly. I've had great success playing a poacher from a 4-1-4-1 - the definitive answer is more down to getting support to that player.

If your playing a defensive/counter approach, with no runners coming from your midfield, your loan poacher will struggle.

But I've played a pretty open, attacking approach, with two inside forwards, an attacking midfielder, and advanced forward in a 4-1-4-1, and a poacher played as a loan striker hasn't struggled at all.

The poacher was Adam Campbell, in the 3rd season, so far from a well-rounded player in terms of creativity, and very little physical presence.

[wwfan]

Not to be a right *****, but isn't that a 4-2-3-1 you are describing? With an AMC, two inside forwards, and a lone striker?

I set up my attack the same way, except with winger duties instead of inside forwards, everyone gets among the goals.

I'm also a little lost. You said your tactic had an AF and a poacher?

I'm actually playing a 4-4-1-1 with an AF as the lone forward ranging ahead of a playmaker AMC and it works well. As long as you have an AMC doing the 2nd striker's job, the lone forward won't get isolated. No AMC and he will. So, if you are using a 4-2-3-1, then your poacher won't be getting isolated. If it is a genuine 4-1-4-1, then I'm surprised he's playing well.

[tommonufc]

Claiming to have an AF and a poacher was just a typo

This is a 4-1-4-1, right? Plays more or less like a 4-1-2-2-1/4-2-3-1 depending on me fielding an AP or DLP alongside the AM. Have tweaked the winger instructions to get them cutting inside, and playing like inside forwards.

This was taken for another purpose, but was basically outlining a similar point. Both of the wingers come inside and support the lone forward - who is a poacher. 4-1-4-1 into a 4-3-3, thus not having a isolated poacher.

[wwfan]

I can see how that would work. Sissoko looks a little detached though. Do you get him moving up into the hole behind the front three?

[tommonufc]

He doesn't really get into that space no, he drives into the box - sort of classic Lampard, he's scored 52 in 131(8) from that midfield role - so fulfills a second striker role from the CM position.

Can't remember how the above move played out, but if the right back gets the cross in Sissoko will be moving into the box, to then make the team shape something like a 4-2-4.

[ShirazS]

I'm also a little lost. You said your tactic had an AF and a poacher?

I'm actually playing a 4-4-1-1 with an AF as the lone forward ranging ahead of a playmaker AMC and it works well. As long as you have an AMC doing the 2nd striker's job, the lone forward won't get isolated. No AMC and he will. So, if you are using a 4-2-3-1, then your poacher won't be getting isolated. If it is a genuine 4-1-4-1, then I'm surprised he's playing well.

Hey wwfan,

Out of interest, what role and duty do you play the AMC as?

Regards

Shiraz

[wwfan]

AP/S. I also have a 4-4-2 variant in which my AF becomes a CF/S and I bring in a poacher to play alongside him, and a 4-1-4-1 when the lone striker plays as a CF/S or DLF/S.

[ShirazS]

In my 4-2-3-1, I have a similar setup. The ST is an AF-Attack and the AMC is AP-Support. It is doing really well, I have a Winger-Attack on the Right and IF-Attack on the left with DLP-S and CM-D in central midfield.

[Bigshow1985]

well the results i had once the players mastered the language was much what i hoped for. cavani and falcao started to link up alot more with players and there movement seemed much better, and more importantly started scoring alot more too. so in this fm the language being learned by said player seems to have more of an affect than in previous games.

[Football Manager.]

Advanced forward is the best lone striker role. Source: thousands of hours of gameplay.

[Cleon]

Advanced forward is the best lone striker role. Source: thousands of hours of gameplay.

It all depends on how you've set the players up around him. So the source ​isn't really an accurate measure though.

[Bigshow1985]

i agree with cleon, a set role for a player cant be the best solution without the players around him being played in a certain way to get the best out of him. for me as i use the old classic tactics and dont use the TC i often tweak my strikers mentality to alter wether they stay high up the pitch looking to get in behind defence or if they come deep to drag defenders out if position. and all that depends on what formation the opposition is playing and what players i have playing in my midfield and out wide.

[gregt or smokey]

Just played my first ever season of FM 13, with Southampton. Ricky Lambert up top as the lone striker; Target Man on support, he scored 23 goals and surprisingly had very few assists, only 3. I played a 4-2-3-1 formation with the AM and Wingers all on attack. (And a BWM and AP in the centre.)

I was surprised to see this many goals coming from a player with 10/11 for pace, given how previous FM's have usually favoured a pacy front man. But after seeing how effective he was I am constantly on the lookout for a similar player, which has led me towards the likes of Stracquilarsi and Andy Carroll.

Anyone else had success with a big target man?

[tajj 7]

Just played my first ever season of FM 13, with Southampton. Ricky Lambert up top as the lone striker; Target Man on support, he scored 23 goals and surprisingly had very few assists, only 3. I played a 4-2-3-1 formation with the AM and Wingers all on attack. (And a BWM and AP in the centre.)

I was surprised to see this many goals coming from a player with 10/11 for pace, given how previous FM's have usually favoured a pacy front man. But after seeing how effective he was I am constantly on the lookout for a similar player, which has led me towards the likes of Stracquilarsi and Andy Carroll.

Anyone else had success with a big target man?

I've had success with that Target man, got him to score 31 league goals first season in a 4-1-2-2-1. Lambert plays that role well because of his PPMs, so even as TM on attack he'll drop deep and link play because that's what he does in real life. He also has decent AM ability (passing creativity, decisions etc are all around 14/15 IIRC)

You'll need to start thinking about replacing him though because he declines pretty quickly as any player who doesn't have decent natural fitness seems to do once they hit 31/32.

[Tinkerman84]

I've had success with that Target man, got him to score 31 league goals first season in a 4-1-2-2-1. Lambert plays that role well because of his PPMs, so even as TM on attack he'll drop deep and link play because that's what he does in real life. He also has decent AM ability (passing creativity, decisions etc are all around 14/15 IIRC)

You'll need to start thinking about replacing him though because he declines pretty quickly as any player who doesn't have decent natural fitness seems to do once they hit 31/32.

I strongly advice Haris Seferovic to play as a TM on a support duty.. if you have decent support from midfield he is great..

[Guest]

Likewise, and also Kozak too.

[Football Manager.]

It all depends on how you've set the players up around him. So the source ​isn't really an accurate measure though.

Haha i've played this game way too much for the last 10 years and it's a statement i stand by %100 taking into account the match engine from FM 10 till now and the introduction of the new TC.

my source is subjective. As is yours when you give an opinion on game experience. I don't claim to be some sort of oracle and have 1000's of worshiping followers, however i'm sure you'll tell you don't claim it either

[Cleon]

Haha i've played this game way too much for the last 10 years and it's a statement i stand by 0 taking into account the match engine from FM 10 till now and the introduction of the new TC.

my source is subjective. As is yours when you give an opinion on game experience. I don't claim to be some sort of oracle and have 1000's of worshiping followers, however i'm sure you'll tell you don't claim it either

Not sure why you have such attitude but either way it has no place in here.

I was correct in what I originally said. There is no best striker role as it all depends on other factors, the shape, the players roles and duties around him and so on. So not sure what your actual issue is, but none the less if you want to bitch and snipe then you'll not be around here much longer.

[Guest]

Haha i've played this game way too much for the last 10 years and it's a statement i stand by %100 taking into account the match engine from FM 10 till now and the introduction of the new TC.

my source is subjective. As is yours when you give an opinion on game experience. I don't claim to be some sort of oracle and have 1000's of worshiping followers, however i'm sure you'll tell you don't claim it either

If you had suggested it was an opinion then that would have been fine, but you have stated it as a fact and it is wrong(My opinion). I am having immense success with a poacher as a lone striker and have had(As others in this thread have stated) had immense success with a Target man too. Cleon built a team around a Trequartista lone striker in his/her Tottenham save with great success. If an AF works for you then bravo, but an AF has not worked for my team because my striker plays best as a poacher and my team are set up to feed him.

[PeeKay]

my source is subjective. As is yours when you give an opinion on game experience. I don't claim to be some sort of oracle and have 1000's of worshiping followers, however i'm sure you'll tell you don't claim it either

Show some respect! I have been playing FM/CM since the 90's, I've been registered on this site for over 10 years and I've have over thousand hours logged for FM13, yet never expect my word to be taken as "source" and I will always listen to advice given by Cleon.

However, back to lone strikers. A tactic that funnels attacks through a lone striker would be easier to stop. To take the simplest case would be a lone Poacher in a 5-4-1, high mentality, good pace, off the ball and anticipation attributes. He always looking to get on to a pass behind the defence or a loose ball in the box. I would ask my team to play deeper (reduces the risk of the player running behind) and tightly mark (counter Poachers off the ball attribute). These steps would reduce the risk caused by the lone Poacher and probably nullify the attacking threat of the opposing team.

So tactics that have a lone striker need other players to provide threat. A good combination is an Advanced Forward with an Attacking Midfielder. The AF pulls into the channels pulls a centre back wide or towards the goal and gives Attacking Midfielder space.

[Striker475]

I'm stuck with an AF/Poacher in a lone striker role right now. Playing as CS Sedan Ardennes in 2012/13. There's no money to speak of so it's impossible to acquire a target man/DLF, having to make do.

Based around the squad though, I've gone with a 4-2-3-1 Deep. What I do have though is quality midfield.

Thus:

-------------Advanced Forward-----------

--IF/Atk----------AP/Supp------Wing/Sup-

-----------------------------------------

---------DM/Supp-------DM/Def----------

The striker gets goals one of two ways - either from through balls from the AMC which are then finished by the striker, or VERY deep crosses from the right-side winger into the striker. By deep I'm talking into-the-six-yard-box - where the defensive line is coming up but doesn't get to cut it out. The AP distributes to any of the winger, the Inside Forward or the AF who are all capable of delivering in their roles. IF can score or pass (generally shoots) and can get behind the defense too before shooting on his inside foot.

[DEERHAUNTER]

The way I negated having a lone ST upfront was to make one of my forwards an AML to cut inside. Focused crossing down the right side of the team, and it meant the TM headed it onto my incoming AML. Only way I've successfully got my ST scoring/assisting lots!