'six-plus-five' Ruling - how would it effect your game?

[Neji]

If asked around 2/3 years ago, I would have been in trouble but now I try to buy English where I can. So I may struggle in some saves but mostly wouldn't be too bad.

[backpackant]

We could add this to the Challenges forum. Play YOUR team as if this rule is in place. Would make managing Chelsea and Man U a bit more interesting.

[Corporal_Curse]

well, in my game with Manchester United, the rule would be a catastrophe. For my best first team i have 9 different nationalities.

[Mike7077]

For my Man. United team, it would be a disaster. To an already pretty cosmopolitan team, I have added three Argentinians, a Ghanaian and a young Spaniard and a Nigerian. I did try to sign an Englishman, but was quoted a price of £84m! I baulked at that and signed my Nigerian instead. Foreign players are cheaper and I hate to reduce the field of talent I look at when identifying targets.

If Blatter had his way, I'd be in a lot of trouble!

[Macyst]

The world is now borderless and so as football. By imposing this rule will discriminate tons of talented players. I don't want to say this but it's somewhat a kind of racism in the form of discrimination from nationality. Also, this will worsen the transfer market, say English players price will be even more expensive. Also, some European country football standards will drop as they have declining birth rate. Where will they get those quality players from? Not everyone is equally talented by the same training.

I always think that any kinds of discrimination should Not be allowed; now the nationality discrimination is being revived from football, namely Blatter.

On the other hand, UEFA's home grown rule is actually excellent; that will promote both local youth system while not affecting/discriminating anyone.

[Macyst]

Forgot to relate my post to FM!

As for FM, rich club will still be fine since they can still buy the best players of the nation regardless. Most of the talented players will still be lured to the rich club like Chelsea and Man Utd. The like of Rio, Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Carrick, Hargreave, etc. If you play big clubs, it won't affect you much since you can still splash the cash.

I'm playing Barcelona now and I'm building and buying Spanish players back to the club. Romos, Torres, etc. They all come since I have the money. Again, what Blatter hopes to solve will not be done by this foolish rule because rich clubs will buy the best in anyway.

[htygyr]

what people don't realise is that it wouldn't increase the number of talented english players, it would increased the number of experienced players, doesn't mean they will be good

bad players won't become good playing all the time, they would need talent beforehand.

and peljam the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

[Dreaded Walrus]

It will be interesting to see what happens if the six-plus-five rule goes ahead with regards to dual-nationality players.

If a player is, say, English and American, would they count as English? If so, let's say Cristiano Ronaldo spends a few more years here. Would he count as English for the purposes of this rule?

If not, let's say that for dual nationality players it's based off the national team they play for. Would you get Woking and Chelsea bemoaning the fact that the Younghusband brothers decided to go and play for the Philippines and therefore not count as "English", and would rather them spend their careers as players not good enough to play for England, therefore just not play international football?

Regardless, as the EU has said, Sepp Blatter's proposals go against EU laws on freedom of movement, as you cannot stop someone from working freely for you based on their nationality, so long as they are an EU national.

The "home-grown" rule UEFA are planning on implementing interests me a lot, and should be both challenging and rewarding. Let's just hope that the youth aspect of this game gets quite a bit of improvement up until that point.

As for how this rule would affect me, I'm unsure. Some games (particularly lower league), I have mostly English players, while others I have mostly foreign players. I hope the EU can dissuade Blatter from going ahead with his proposals, though.

[llama3]

Originally posted by Mike7077:

I did try to sign an Englishman, but was quoted a price of £84m! I baulked at that and signed my Nigerian instead. Foreign players are cheaper and I hate to reduce the field of talent I look at when identifying targets.

Mate now this is why Arsene Wenger buys foreign players at Arsenal. I mean look at an example - Bakary Sagna, cost £6m from Auxerre last summer, now can you name any English right-back who has player nearly as well and would cost a reasonable fee? no chance.

Wenger is sensible with finances, thats why we have so many foreign players. Arsenal do actually have some good young Englishmen coming through, people like Henri Lansbury, Jack Wilshere and Kyle Bartley are all looking very promising.

[MTC]

the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them.

[safc4eva]

It would seriously affect my SAFC game because I only have 3 English first-teamers. But on my edited database for an experiment I'm starting in the Conference North and will try to become the no.1 team in Europe with only using English players and staff.

[htygyr]

Originally posted by MTC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah but as you can only pick 5, if u have 6 forigners, then one can't play everyweek due to the law therefore its illegal

[WerderBremenYank]

It wouldnt effect my Werder team at all

I've got a team full of germans, except for Henri Saivet and Ken Okada, a Japanese regen striker.

[The Chosen One]

Originally posted by The Lambs:

I currently have only 3 first team starters in my world class Premier team, so it would require me to sign a few more players.

After a quick search, I could fill one of my striker roles with a player coming through my youth team and my 3 rotating Defenders are all English. As one of them can play DR as well I would be up to 5 players.

I would have to dip into the transfer market for the midfield.

I would welcome this rule in real life. Arsenal only started with one English player on the pitch in a third of their Premier League games this year, hence the reason Wenger is so opposed to it.

Of the big four, Man Utited were the best with 4.28 English players in their starting line up.

Only Aston Villa and West Ham had more than an average of 6 players starting the game.

498 players started premier games this season, only 170 of them were English. This is an average of 3.9 players. Spain had 6.9 Spanish players starting each game and Italy had 7.3.

It is no wonder that Capeelo says we have a small pool of players to choose from. Bring the rule on I say, if only to watch Wenger wet his pants.

It's not only Arsene thats opposing the rule I am sure many many people in the UK are against this rule. It is rather to stupid to say you can get 6 english players who can constanly start in the game. No offence but we all know how eager all these big teams are to get English players and how much they can offer them but simply the chances of finding are rather slim. The fact that Man U had to spend so much to get them suggested that demand is just simply too high.

Rio Ferdinand - 30 M pounds

Wayne Rooney - 25 M pounds

Carrick - 18 M pounds

Owen H - 18 M pounds

Speaking of Arsene, mind you he produced many english players over the course but they were not simply good enough. David Bently couldn't cope with the competition and let's face he was never close to Pires (when he was in his prime) and Freddy Lju. Pennant became a stripper: getting drunk in the middle of the night and hence ending up in the jail.

England will never produce as many good players as Brazil because let's face it Brazilians littely drink, sleep, and smoke football.

The idea, 6+5, is good but I think 6 players is just too much... may be 3+8 would be good.

ANd hey the rule would only come affect in around 2013... so who knows who is still playing FM.

By the way, wasn't it Blatter who said gay footballers should come of the closet? (A relief for Ronaldo) so who is even listening this guy.

[Heisenberg]

Considering the length of time we're looking at for this to happen (2013, as The Chosen One stated above) I think it'd be fairly easy, even for Arsenal, to implement. They have a number of good youth players coming through who'd be ready by then if they're kept, and it's worth noting that Wenger actually bought some of them as youngsters

With regards to my Arsenal team (I'm currently in 2011) if I had the 2 year bracket I'd manage it I think. I currently have 3 regular English starters and three players who are up and comers I use as cover and for cup games. I could manage it, but I'd not perform as well

[T.R.F.C]

i think it will just mena that clubs will start to rade other european teams for there 14 year olds are offering them a chance to move to england because this way they will count as british by the time they get into the first team

[mizan]

It wouldnt be that hard for me in my game.

I started the ENGLISH challenge- to have a squad full of English players. I started with Arsenal.

I have to say it was very hard to sell people like Fabregas.

One thing though, there is a lack of good English players, also the transfer fees are ridiculous.

I paid £20m for Michael Johnson £30m for Agbonlahor and Richards! I wanted Gerrard, Liverpool wanted £70m!!

If this rule goes through, the big four will fight it out for the top Englishmen and their prices would be inflated.

As a challenge, its great but it is agonising not being able to sign the likes of Aguero and sell Fabregas and Co!!

[Pyu]

Read up on the Bosman ruling. Other than allowing players to move for free, it did alot more by banning restrictions on EU nationality players.

Don't really know what Blatter is smoking since the top European clubs will never stand for it. Even if all the clubs swallow it, you can just wait for a player who can't play because of these rules to file a court case and it will all break down like a house of cards.

As for the problem of lesser English players breaking through, I would say go fix the stupid problem at the root. Its not as simple as foreign players taking away the places - look at Spain and Italy, they don't have this problem even though they have to work with the sudden influx of foreigners. You still have players like Bojan, Silva, Navas, etc, coming out.

Placing a quota wouldn't suddenly make the English team become world beaters. FFS, fix the coaching, the youth development system and get rid of the catchement restrictions.

[cice2]

This issue says something about the lateral thinking skills of football ruling body. The fact is EU law cannot be broken but UEFA law can be set. Therefore do not impose quota but deduct league points for team that cannot make the 6+5 average at the end of the season. That will break no law and forces teams to comply.

[jamiehex]

I have always hated Blatter. Sooner he passes the better.

[IbrahimAliMaher]

I think I would be screwed. I'm a championship club and have quite a few British players, but unfortunately most of them are Scottish, so unless they qualify under a UK passport I'd only have 5 members of my current first team squad that are English. There's a real dearth of English youth prospects in my game, apart from the odd kid in my reserves/U-18s that have come through the youth system I haven't been able to find any English players that are good enough, but there are plenty of Belgians, Scots and Dutch players.

[Simply Perfect]

Saying it would make no difference is not strictly true: FIFA is also proposing that it takes 5 years in every country to be 'nationalised'. So, the likes of Ronaldo won't yet be classed as home-grown, and I also believe that unless he's capped by England, will always be classed as one of the five.

What I'm wondering is, will the 6 in England be English or UK Passport holders?

[D. Doyle]

Originally posted by Nene_Park_Faithfull:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulHartman71:

tbh, in recent years the Scottish and Northern Irish national teams have played better than England's, if anything their leagues will get better.

I disagree, just look at the World Rankings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean the rankings in which england have dropped and scotland have gained?

the same rankings that pit england 1 place above scotland?

Give it time.

[mlp071]

Seriously , if you read world press, you will find that only EPL is against it.Not even English FA is against it.

Everyone else but them and some politicians in EU don't want the change.

It will be good change for world , and maybe not so good for EPL.Oh well...

And it doesn't look that anyone feels sorry for them due to Scudamore and his arrogance in the past.

I wouldn't have any problems, since i always play "all country " games , ex. if i play in Sweden , whole team is Swedish.

Only if i get to Top league in country , i maybe will get 2 or 3 non-nationals.

[Peljam]

Originally posted by htygyr:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MTC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah but as you can only pick 5, if u have 6 forigners, then one can't play everyweek due to the law therefore its illegal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends I suppose on what the definition of working is for a footballer. If playing matches is an integral part of it then you're right. If one player can't play because they are foreign, even for just one match, then it would be illegal.

If playing matches isn't though then it technically wouldn't be illegal as the foreign player could still work, they just wouldn't always be taking part in matches.

For example for my career I sometimes have to give presentations. It's part of the job but it's not always. Sometimes I don't have to do any, sometimes other people do them. I'm still working though.

I don't know how it's defined. In one sense if playing matches all the time, when fit, is part then why are there appearance fee's? Surely they would become redundant and could just be incorparated into the main wage. But then again, conditional work permits often hinge on the percent of games played, implying matches are an integral part of the the definition. Not my area of expertise

I hope the rule doesn't get brought in really. It doesn't seem the right way to go about it. I think any enforced quota in any sort of job is a bad idea. The best people should get the job, regardless of anything else. But I do think, to encourage the groth of home grown talent that teams who keep the faith with youngsters, English ones in this case, should be rewarded for it.

Then again other countries, some with smaller populations and less prestigious leagues, don't seem to have the English problem with having National side level talent.

[MTC]

Originally posted by htygyr:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MTC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah but as you can only pick 5, if u have 6 forigners, then one can't play everyweek due to the law therefore its illegal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's clearly a silly argument: By the same logic, as you can only pick 11 players, if you have 12 players, then one can't play every week therefore it's illegal to have only 11 players on the pitch…

…I'm off topic aren't I? Well this would make the game more difficult to play, but I wouldn't mind as I like the 6+5 rule.

[madog308]

this would be deadly for me. i could manage it but it would cost alot of money to buy the best british players. however i think i would get annoyed and just move to spain(where most of my team comes from) where they already have a only 3 foreigners rule

[YesYesOhYay]

i think it could actually make the game more realistic, because after 3 seasons with Bolton i was able to sign Ronaldinho!

so, this would mean that it is more likely that you would be buying players at the same level as your club, slowly progressing forward, like real life

[turn it upto 11]

would be a lot easier to change the homegrown rule like someone has already said, put it down the about 7 then at least the players will have grown up in england and be able to play for england, wheras signing someone at 15 and traing them to get round the rule the kid has alread ychosen to play for spain etc.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

would be a lot easier to change the homegrown rule like someone has already said, put it down the about 7 then at least the players will have grown up in england and be able to play for england, wheras signing someone at 15 and traing them to get round the rule the kid has alread ychosen to play for spain etc.

It isn't a case of clubs abusing the homegrown rule to get around things: The homegrown rule and the 6+5 rule have two entirely different motives.

The intention of the homegrown rule is to improve the quality of and the focus on a club's youth system. The idea is that this will also indirectly lead to better English players, while also encouraging clubs to bring in young foreign players and nurture them well, rather than just giving away tens of millions to foreign clubs for players when they're already established internationally.

The intention of the 6+5 rule is to directly increase the quality of English players by limiting the number of non-English (British?) players any particular club can field. This would obviously lead to a short-term downturn in the quality of football played in the English leagues, as teams will be forced to play English players that previously weren't good enough to be in the starting XI, but the idea is that over time, this will lead to clubs focussing more on English youngsters.

[jedclough]

England will never produce as many good players as Brazil because let's face it Brazilians littely drink, sleep, and smoke football.

It might be this reason or it might be the fact that Brazil is the fifth largest and fifth most populous country on the planet. Football is one of the only ways out of poverty for many young Brazilians, so has a huge intake. Also, Brazil's league is pretty unattractive a proposition compared to Europe, so there are fewer foreign players in the domestic league. There really is no mystery as to why Brazil are the best, it's a huge country with lots of footballers. The Netherlands on the other hand...

Compare it to this country: A rich country with many different sports for youngsters to get into(football, cricket, rugby), but with also a massive emphasis on careers. Football is not really encouraged as a viable career at school. Added to this is a pretty bad drink and diet culture!

The point I'm making is, that there is no point trying to compare this country with Brazil. Even if we bring in a quota scheme, we will still struggle to bring through a constant crop of excellent players. However, the way things are going, we will soon end up in a position where our international squad are the only English players in the league! Just go to the BBC website and look at the gossip section and count how many players being touted are English. I don't particularly like Sepp Blatter but it would be remiss of him (let's not even talk about the FA, because it should be them being concerned) to ignore the issue. We are fools if we think there isn't a problem!

[shajt]

Surely someone such as Manuel Almunia (off the top of my head) would qualify as 'English' as he has never played for Spain and will next year gain British citizenship, or does it not work like this?

[amplifierworship]

Originally posted by shajt:

Surely someone such as Manuel Almunia (off the top of my head) would qualify as 'English' as he has never played for Spain and will next year gain British citizenship, or does it not work like this?

I think this is something else UEFA are stopping soon.

[Themistofelis]

This will never pass from the EU commission , players get bonuses from appearances , goals etc ; players not having equal chances in that money because of their nationality is against EU philosophy.

Blatter is a racist pig , we are all equal European citizens so why the hell matters where any of us is born ?

The first who sue will bring the law down.

[chaddy101]

Im curious, I know EU laws treat everyone equally and so forth but the is it really preventing them from working because they are not in the starting eleven?

They are still going to get paid, they could still come off the bench and they have every chance of making the next starting eleven.

Im sure a football contract includes training and such like as part of the job.

[DrEdwierd]

Real Life, dont like it, Cant see what it would add to the game.

FM would just be a mild annoyance but 6 is alot :/

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by chaddy101:

Im curious, I know EU laws treat everyone equally and so forth but the is it really preventing them from working because they are not in the starting eleven?

The reasoning is that it is seen as discrimination based on nationality. They might be getting paid and they might be training, but they would stop being played simply because of where they were born rather than being less skilled. I think this is what the EU was getting at when they said it would be illegal.

[llama3]

tbh the 6+5 would kill my team. i have 3 english first teamers: Richards, walcott and bartley. and frankly only richards is a first XI player. I buy whats right for my team and cheapest. but most of my players are signed from spain where the release clauses plus registration of squads and that issues that throws up makes signing players all the more easy.

[PMLF]

Blatter is a racist pig , we are all equal European citizens so why the hell matters where any of us is born ?

Time to tell a European National Team in the World Cup then! And a European League too (instead of the local leagues)!

[Themistofelis]

Originally posted by PMLF:

Time to tell a European National Team in the World Cup then! And a European League too (instead of the local leagues)!

I totally agree on that , i don't see any reason to cheer for "our" national team beating other fellow union members in the incoming European championship.

[turn it upto 11]

Originally posted by Dreaded Walrus:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

would be a lot easier to change the homegrown rule like someone has already said, put it down the about 7 then at least the players will have grown up in england and be able to play for england, wheras signing someone at 15 and traing them to get round the rule the kid has alread ychosen to play for spain etc.

It isn't a case of clubs abusing the homegrown rule to get around things: The homegrown rule and the 6+5 rule have two entirely different motives.

The intention of the homegrown rule is to improve the quality of and the focus on a club's youth system. The idea is that this will also indirectly lead to better English players, while also encouraging clubs to bring in young foreign players and nurture them well, rather than just giving away tens of millions to foreign clubs for players when they're already established internationally.

The intention of the 6+5 rule is to directly increase the quality of English players by limiting the number of non-English (British?) players any particular club can field. This would obviously lead to a short-term downturn in the quality of football played in the English leagues, as teams will be forced to play English players that previously weren't good enough to be in the starting XI, but the idea is that over time, this will lead to clubs focussing more on English youngsters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

surely changing the homegrown rule would force clubs to look into ways of producing better talent, rather than this way, which i am against, will force clubs to pay silly prices to championship clubs for poor players(lets face it all the prem clubs wont have 4 or 5 youngsters ready to step up, so the championship teams will up thier prices)