Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Cleon]

Just to clarify, this is not my tactic, nor am I taking credit for it. I am also not taking any credit for it even if I make my own tweaks. The tweaks would be for my own personal use and not to turn around and recommend to this forum. I have had great results with this tactic, but I just want to try to make a tweak or two (if needed) to improve the Shots/Shots on target %. With that being said, If I am still in any violation of forum rules, then please let me know.

Wow those shouts are a mess. Exploit the wings while you only have 1 player on the wings at either side.....retain possession yet encourage more throughballs and crosses early all which add to less possession........

3 strikers all with the same role so basically all 3 of them do the same thing, all drop deep meaning no-one stays high and pressures the defensive line and its very easy to mark against.

The tactic has lack of movement and support up front, no wonder you have 30 shots but only 5 are on target.

If you want further help with this tactic though I suggest you use the thread they have for this tactic on the forum already.

[USMNT10]

Wow those shouts are a mess. Exploit the wings while you only have 1 player on the wings at either side.....retain possession yet encourage more throughballs and crosses early all which add to less possession........

3 strikers all with the same role so basically all 3 of them do the same thing, all drop deep meaning no-one stays high and pressures the defensive line and its very easy to mark against.

The tactic has lack of movement and support up front, no wonder you have 30 shots but only 5 are on target.

If you want further help with this tactic though I suggest you use the thread they have for this tactic on the forum already.

Thanks for the response.

Ya I know this thing is a bit of a mess. And I figured one of the big issues was having three strikers with the same role. Figured it also congested the box and forced others to take the long shots.

As for it lacking movement and support upfront, what do you mean? upfront means the attacking zone right? What needs to be there and what shouts need to be in place to have it be considered correct?

I don't know much yet about tactics. I am new to soccer/football. I am still learning, which is why I have been DL'ing tactics rather than trying to build my own. So, I don't know the shouts/team instructions along with the formation and mentalities that contradict each other. Those things don't stand out to me or make complete sense to me like they do to you all. And even though this one is a mess, it has still done wonders for me. So, i could only imagine what it would be be like once fixed up. Did not know throughballs and early crosses contradict retaining possession. And so there shouldn't be "exploit the wings" in place when you only have two? What, is that usually set when you also have wing backs?

[Cleon]

Thanks for the response.

Ya I know this thing is a bit of a mess. And I figured one of the big issues was having three strikers with the same role. Figured it also congested the box and forced others to take the long shots.

As for it lacking movement and support upfront, what do you mean? upfront means the attacking zone right? What needs to be there and what shouts need to be in place to have it be considered correct?

I don't know much yet about tactics. I am new to soccer/football. I am still learning, which is why I have been DL'ing tactics rather than trying to build my own. So, I don't know the shouts/team instructions along with the formation and mentalities that contradict each other. Those things don't stand out to me or make complete sense to me like they do to you all. And even though this one is a mess, it has still done wonders for me. So, i could only imagine what it would be be like once fixed up. Did not know throughballs and early crosses contradict retaining possession. And so there shouldn't be "exploit the wings" in place when you only have two? What, is that usually set when you also have wing backs?

You should read this;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/377489-Creating-A-Tactic-Design-Create-and-Maintain

Exploit The Flanks –

It gives the fullback/wingbacks and wingers more attacking and focuses the play down both flanks. It also tells them to run from deep and cross the ball more often. If you use central midfielders then it’ll tell them to hold up the ball. You should use this if you find the middle over crowded or if you have good wide players who can cross.

So in this system you are using the CM is actually your support player when going forward and the one who is trying to help the strikers from a deeper area. You don't really have a numbers advantage on the wings either and this is your own weakness in the tactic you use. So by making your own players more attacking down the wings then you actually expose them more and cause your own player to be out of position and be too advanced. It's a big issue.

You'd honestly be better creating your own tactic because the one above you posted actually took advantage of poor defending and was the main reason it was successful before the last patch but now is lacking goals due to the errors it used being fixed.

[USMNT10]

You should read this;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/377489-Creating-A-Tactic-Design-Create-and-Maintain

Exploit The Flanks –

It gives the fullback/wingbacks and wingers more attacking and focuses the play down both flanks. It also tells them to run from deep and cross the ball more often. If you use central midfielders then it’ll tell them to hold up the ball. You should use this if you find the middle over crowded or if you have good wide players who can cross.

So in this system you are using the CM is actually your support player when going forward and the one who is trying to help the strikers from a deeper area. You don't really have a numbers advantage on the wings either and this is your own weakness in the tactic you use. So by making your own players more attacking down the wings then you actually expose them more and cause your own player to be out of position and be too advanced. It's a big issue.

You'd honestly be better creating your own tactic because the one above you posted actually took advantage of poor defending and was the main reason it was successful before the last patch but now is lacking goals due to the errors it used being fixed.

Ya I am ditching it. Contemplating creating my own from scratch (much more rewarding) or still DL another one until I become more knowledgeable with tactics. Thinking about doing the F9 Striker with the Shadow Striker AMC.

[phnompenhandy]

On top of all that, you have 16 instructions within a very fluid philosophy. Very fluid basically means telling the players to ignore instructions and do their own thing.

Read wwfan's 12 point guide to FM14 and Cleon's threads - they will revolutionise your understanding of tactics (in FM and real life football).

[Cleon]

Ya I am ditching it. Contemplating creating my own from scratch (much more rewarding) or still DL another one until I become more knowledgeable with tactics. Thinking about doing the F9 Striker with the Shadow Striker AMC.

Each to their own but by downloading tactics you'll pick up bad habits. Take the one you currently use, there is no logic or common sense used with it you only have to look at the shouts they use to see this. They've used everyone possible in the hope they stumble across something that works.

Create your own and you'll learn faster because if you pick up bad habits then you'll have to unlearn them and start thinking about things different. Long term it'll be more beneficial using your own imo. If you need help then create a new thread about the style you want, the shape etc and someone will help

[RTHerringbone]

That tactic just has no logical reasoning behind it, so the risk is that if you become accustomed to, or dependent on, tactics with no real logic, then that is how you start to think in FM.

I'm using extraordinarily plain tactics (4-1-4-1, flat 4-5-1 and 4-4-1-1) with minimal instructions and basic Roles, as it is far easier to analyse games when you strip things down to the minimum.

[USMNT10]

On top of all that, you have 16 instructions within a very fluid philosophy. Very fluid basically means telling the players to ignore instructions and do their own thing.

Read wwfan's 12 point guide to FM14 and Cleon's threads - they will revolutionise your understanding of tactics (in FM and real life football).

Each to their own but by downloading tactics you'll pick up bad habits. Take the one you currently use, there is no logic or common sense used with it you only have to look at the shouts they use to see this. They've used everyone possible in the hope they stumble across something that works.

Create your own and you'll learn faster because if you pick up bad habits then you'll have to unlearn them and start thinking about things different. Long term it'll be more beneficial using your own imo. If you need help then create a new thread about the style you want, the shape etc and someone will help

That tactic just has no logical reasoning behind it, so the risk is that if you become accustomed to, or dependent on, tactics with no real logic, then that is how you start to think in FM.

I'm using extraordinarily plain tactics (4-1-4-1, flat 4-5-1 and 4-4-1-1) with minimal instructions and basic Roles, as it is far easier to analyse games when you strip things down to the minimum.

Thanks for the help guys. I will definitely read up on tactics more and also build my own from scratch, but also while trying to keep it minimalistic. So do not not all formations need instructions? Like do a lot of those default tactics that come with the game work just find without instructions?

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks for the help guys. I will definitely read up on tactics more and also build my own from scratch, but also while trying to keep it minimalistic. So do not not all formations need instructions? Like do a lot of those default tactics that come with the game work just find without instructions?

The default tactics all come with some fairly uninspiring Role and Duties assigned.

However, any tactic can work just fine without any instructions - for the Team or the Player.

For me, the key is to first choose the right formation (remembering that the formation reflects the shape of the team when it defends), and then to get Roles and Duties set up correctly.

There's no simpler guide than wwfan's Twelve Step Guide, stickied near the top of the forum.

llama3's Pairs & Combinations thread is also well worth a look.

[shaunwwfc]

I want to be able to have two strikers in my tactic that will constantly put the back four under pressure and on there toes. Obviously close down more will work well but what about in terms of "keeping them on there toes" in terms of in an attacking sense? Work Move into Channells on both strikers be viable? If so would I need to have two strikers on attack duty? Or is it viable to have a DLF or TM for example on support who will "move into channels". Will they be too far away from each other in this kind of system?

Replies/Help/Advice will be much appreciated.

[Touristas3]

Has anyone playing with a 3 man defence (DCL/DC/DCR) managed to make the outer defenders support more when the team is attacking?

I mean,they space out well but never really cross the halfway line when attacking...''get further forward'' doesn't seem to work with central defenders even when they have ''gets forward whenever possible'' as ppm.

[RTHerringbone]

Has anyone playing with a 3 man defence (DCL/DC/DCR) managed to make the outer defenders support more when the team is attacking?

I mean,they space out well but never really cross the halfway line when attacking...''get further forward'' doesn't seem to work with central defenders even when they have ''gets forward whenever possible'' as ppm.

The point of a narrow three man defence is that it gives license to other areas of the formation to be braver and do that attacking work.

If your outer DCs went upfield, then you'd have an isolated central DC if you lost possession - not a great idea.

[Touristas3]

The point of a narrow three man defence is that it gives license to other areas of the formation to be braver and do that attacking work.

If your outer DCs went upfield, then you'd have an isolated central DC if you lost possession - not a great idea.

I meant one of them each time depending on the wing the ball is...this would still leave 2 at the back.

I'm just looking for a bit more support on the wings when my winger has the ball around the opposition box,and an occasional cross if we have them all closed in their area.

Currently,the only way to replicate it is by using FBs and 2 HBs in front of the lone CD...but i haven't managed to get the defending side of the game working when playing like this

[RTHerringbone]

I'd go as far as to say that it is impossible to get a narrow back three to behave that way.

You could try a wide three with a DL, DC and DR, with a limited full back on one side and some sort of Support Role on the Other, but it would be a bit risky.

That risk could be mitigated with an offset Anchor, and / or a responsible wide midfield Role.

[Touristas3]

I'd go as far as to say that it is impossible to get a narrow back three to behave that way.

Not even with ppms like ''runs with ball down right'' , ''gets forward'' , ''gets into opposition area'' ?

So why can we give central defenders the instruction to ''get further forward'',is it a bug and shouldnt exist as a specific instruction or will it work with some capable players?

[ILunde]

What would you say is the key points when trying to play a direct counter attacking style?

as far as i understand it its about overloading/overcrowding the other team with players so you are in greater numbers than they are,

and catching them off guard by quickly transporting the ball from defense(or where the ball was won), to the mid/final third with good options to the man on the ball?

i have my team setup like this, with the shouts i think would be appropriate:

Any pointers or key elements i am missing?

[Cleon]

I meant one of them each time depending on the wing the ball is...this would still leave 2 at the back.

I'm just looking for a bit more support on the wings when my winger has the ball around the opposition box,and an occasional cross if we have them all closed in their area.

Currently,the only way to replicate it is by using FBs and 2 HBs in front of the lone CD...but i haven't managed to get the defending side of the game working when playing like this

Flat back 3's don't work like this because a flat 3's job is to stay back and defend and not attack. If you want a defender to attack then use a libero or try a ball playing defender.

You're being unrealistic though wanting a flat 3 to offer support on the wings. I don't know how you expect something that is narrow to offer support down the wings to the wide players. It sounds more like you need wingbacks if you need support around the oppositions box

[bluesjunior]

What would you say is the key points when trying to play a direct counter attacking style?

as far as i understand it its about overloading/overcrowding the other team with players so you are in greater numbers than they are,

and catching them off guard by quickly transporting the ball from defense(or where the ball was won), to the mid/final third with good options to the man on the ball?

i have my team setup like this, with the shouts i think would be appropriate:

Any pointers or key elements i am missing?

Personally I would drop the Team Instruction on Direct Passing and give indivdual passing instructions to your players. I give my players with passing stats of 15+ the short passing instruction and direct passing to those with less than 15. You could also give players with passing stats of 10-14 no passing instructions at all this I feel would equate to the "Mixed" passing of previous games. You should also add a Defensive Line setting to your Team Instructions. This will affect your attacking momentum, I would set it to High at the start with an Offsides Trap in a Counter Attacking tactic. At half time all being well (ie you are dominating play but can't get that two goal cushion) you can set it to the Much Higher setting, which will make your team attack more..

[xambo]

Any idea what how to beat the 4-1-2-2-1 wide and 4-2-3-1 tactics. I play a 4-4-2 and the opponents always have more numbers in the midfield and contorl the game. I would not want to change the 4-4-2 because I like having two strikers but if I had to I would in the end. I have one ball winning midfielder and one central midfielder. It just seems most teams play with more numbers in midfield and it will overwhelm the 4-4-2.

[kingjericho]

How should I decide the intensity of general training and the intensity of an individual player focus?

[Cleon]

How should I decide the intensity of general training and the intensity of an individual player focus?

Training is fully explained here;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375145-The-Santos-Project-Tactical-and-Player-Development

[Dr. Hook]

Any idea what how to beat the 4-1-2-2-1 wide and 4-2-3-1 tactics. I play a 4-4-2 and the opponents always have more numbers in the midfield and contorl the game. I would not want to change the 4-4-2 because I like having two strikers but if I had to I would in the end. I have one ball winning midfielder and one central midfielder. It just seems most teams play with more numbers in midfield and it will overwhelm the 4-4-2.

I use a 4-1-2-1-2 and had the same problem where the two wide men would cut in an outnumber me in midfield. Here is what I did, and I think it would work for the 4-4-2. First, I had to man mark the CF, and then used my backs to close down the two wide men. That will still leave you one CB free to cover one of their midfielders when he gets near the area. In a 4-4-2, I wouldn't use the BWM, because he tends to go haring off around the park chasing the ball, and that could leave you unmanned in the middle. Against those, I've had to alter roles a bit to cope. I would suggest one CM on defend, and one on support, with the Central mid role to try and keep them both more in the middle.

[Aizo4576]

Hey guys

I've started a game with Reading and I'm trying to create a solid base tactic for them. After reading through a couple of guides on here, this is what I have come up with:

However, I'm not sure what side I should have the W(S) - FB(A) combination on? I have players capable of it on both sides so I could play it on either. Also any suggestions for team instructions?

Cheers

[Cleon]

Looks like a decent set up tbh. The only thing I'd say change is the AP and DLP, swap them around. That way you don't have a massive gap down the left side and you cause an overlap on the right and give the AP another passing outlet to work with. The balance will be a lot better with this change.

Apart from that its just a case of seeing how it works in a game now and adapting it to suit scenarios that happen in a game etc

[Aizo4576]

Looks like a decent set up tbh. The only thing I'd say change is the AP and DLP, swap them around. That way you don't have a massive gap down the left side and you cause an overlap on the right and give the AP another passing outlet to work with. The balance will be a lot better with this change.

Apart from that its just a case of seeing how it works in a game now and adapting it to suit scenarios that happen in a game etc

Thanks I'll have a closer look at my full backs and decide whether I swap the W/FBs or the two CMs

[badabing]

Everytime i try to change a PPM my coaches usually tell me they cant see them being capable, i usually force them to try it. Is there anypoint in even forcing them if coach doesn't agree?.

Also both my strikers im trying to use as DLF but they both have try to beat offside trap! Is it even worth playing them or stick a youngster in who has no negative ppm to what im trying to play?

[shaunwwfc]

Can two strikers that run into channels (perhaps a Poacher and DLF) in a direct system work?

I tried asking this question previous but it got ignored.

[petergoddard]

I think I have read here in this thread (or some other, not sure) that PI override TI, but what about OI ? Is there an hierarchy of instructions ?

[Steve Odom]

I think I have read here in this thread (or some other, not sure) that PI override TI, but what about OI ? Is there an hierarchy of instructions ?

It wouldn't be useful if the OI's didn't override the PI and TI instructions so they come first in the list.

[BARNESDON]

Can somebody tell me what happens when you go to a Interview after being approached by another Club?

I always decline as i do not want to rock the boat of my current club as i assume by me going to a Interview, this would cause unrest?

Also, how often are you offered the job if you attend a Interview after being approached in such a way?

[Cleon]

Can somebody tell me what happens when you go to a Interview after being approached by another Club?

I always decline as i do not want to rock the boat of my current club as i assume by me going to a Interview, this would cause unrest?

Also, how often are you offered the job if you attend a Interview after being approached in such a way?

Wrong forum, this thread is for Tactic/Training questions only like stated in the thread title

[petergoddard]

It wouldn't be useful if the OI's didn't override the PI and TI instructions so they come first in the list.

Ok, so, if establishing a hierarchy or a priority, as the highest we have OI followed by PI and last TI ? This is correct, right ? If so is it accurate to say that the team will hassle and mark tight only by setting OI ? Does the team behaviour in theses terms (hassle and mark) is more reliable than setting PI and / or TI ???

[Steve Odom]

Yes but it's not more reliable. You could easily upset the balance of your tactic if you don't know what you're doing.

[petergoddard]

Yes but it's not more reliable. You could easily upset the balance of your tactic if you don't know what you're doing.

Thanks Steve.

Let's see if I'm thinking correctly about this...

a) if my CD (stopper) is PI to mark tigher he will do so to any player that comes inside his zone ? Right ?

b) if a set an opponent forward player to mark tighter, my same CD will do so only to that forward ? Right ?

c) if my CD is set to mark tighter both at PI and OI, the OI instruction will override the PI instruction ? Right ?

d) these applies to any OI instruction ? right ?

[Cleon]

Remember that the OI's will apply to every player in your side and not just 1. So if you instruct to always tight mark a specific player then any player he goes near will be tight marking him.

[petergoddard]

Remember that the OI's will apply to every player in your side and not just 1. So if you instruct to always tight mark a specific player then any player he goes near will be tight marking him.

Yes, it's about all my players regarding one opponent player.

are my 4 questions correct ?

[Cleon]

OI's override everything. So if you don't use OI's then PI's are used.

[petergoddard]

OI's override everything. So if you don't use OI's then PI's are used.

yes, thank you, but I was referring those 4 questions at the post above.

[Cleon]

yes, thank you, but I was referring those 4 questions at the post above.

I don't understand what isn't answered? You've been given the answers already so why the confusion? :confused: My answer answers all the questions you had.

[petergoddard]

I don't understand what isn't answered? You've been given the answers already so why the confusion? :confused: My answer answers all the questions you had.

I was talking about these ideas and if they are correct...

a) if my CD (stopper) is PI to mark tigher he will do so to any player that comes inside his zone ? Right ?

b) if a set an opponent forward player to mark tighter, my same CD will do so only to that forward ? Right ?

c) if my CD is set to mark tighter both at PI and OI, the OI instruction will override the PI instruction ? Right ?

[Cleon]

My answer covered all these though.

I was talking about these ideas and if they are correct...

a) if my CD (stopper) is PI to mark tigher he will do so to any player that comes inside his zone ? Right ?

b) if a set an opponent forward player to mark tighter, my same CD will do so only to that forward ? Right ?

c) if my CD is set to mark tighter both at PI and OI, the OI instruction will override the PI instruction ? Right ?

A) Yes because its a PI

B) You mean use an OI on a specific forward? Then yes because its an OI.

C) OI's overwrite PI's..............

[petergoddard]

My answer covered all these though.

A) Yes because its a PI

B) You mean use an OI on a specific forward? Then yes because its an OI.

C) OI's overwrite PI's..............

yes, finally I'm getting to it, thanks :-)

Is there a thread clarified these issues ? Is any of you guys willing to do one ?

[Cleon]

To clarify what? Its easy and doesn't need any explanation other than OI's override the settings it really is that simple

[janesy20]

There was an answer written on here but I can't for the life of me remember where...

I want to press high to get the ball back and once got it drop off and retain possession, which shouts could mimic this?

thanks.

[Cleon]

There was an answer written on here but I can't for the life of me remember where...

I want to press high to get the ball back and once got it drop off and retain possession, which shouts could mimic this?

thanks.

If you press high then you will always press high but remember its only when you don't have the ball you'd be pressing. So you could use the retain possession shout to keep the ball when you was in possession.

[petergoddard]

To clarify what? Its easy and doesn't need any explanation other than OI's override the settings it really is that simple

Ok maybe so, for a few can be really simple for many others they might have more difficulties, but there are a bunch of examples like these questions I posted that can be helpful for many users and since you guys have some threads explaining many issues that really help us, this one could also be very helpful.

[MTM1977]

I have three promising players, who just joined my team at the beginning of the season starting transfer window.

This is the problem:

They signed on part time contracts, but after that club turned professional (promotion to premiership triggered it).

Now, they are the only players with part time contracts, all other players + staff are now full time.

They don't want to sign a new contract as they just signed the first one.

Will they now train only part time or will they train full time with the others?

[Cleon]

Ok maybe so, for a few can be really simple for many others they might have more difficulties, but there are a bunch of examples like these questions I posted that can be helpful for many users and since you guys have some threads explaining many issues that really help us, this one could also be very helpful.

Basically that's what this thread is for. No-one has the time to sit and write about every aspect of the game, especially as we do it for free and in our own time

[Cleon]

I have three promising players, who just joined my team at the beginning of the season starting transfer window.

This is the problem:

They signed on part time contracts, but after that club turned professional (promotion to premiership triggered it).

Now, they are the only players with part time contracts, all other players + staff are now full time.

They don't want to sign a new contract as they just signed the first one.

Will they now train only part time or will they train full time with the others?

Part-time because they are only part-time players.

[MTM1977]

Part-time because they are only part-time players.

That's what i was afraid of.

Well, have to try to offer them new contracts frequently until they sign a full time contract.