The Art of Numbers, not attributes - A journey extracting the best out of my players

[Rashidi]

THE ART OF NUMBERS

As some of you are probably aware my livestreams with Palermo, just became a bit more interesting, at least for me. We have done away with displaying attributes in the game entirely. No attributes shown, I will be relying on coach reports. Now its not 100% possible for me to escape attributes unless i get a custom skin mate. So I will just remove the attributes and avoid the training page.

It does however make it interesting when it comes to scouting and player assessments. Out goes attributes and in come statistics. Why have I done this?

I am not on an ego trip, the goal was to show that sometimes paying too much attention to attributes can be misleading. 2 players with slightly different attributes can still have big swings in performances during games. Sometimes its hard to isolate whether an attribute is causing this or something else. The range of "something else" is pretty big in Football Manager. There are a whole host of hidden stuff that is under the hood that can play a part in causing swings in performance.

If there wasn't anything like that in the game then you could give every player 15 for attributes and they would perform identically in every game. And we all know that never happens. 

And I am not the first to play with attributes, many others have done that including @Cleon. But why?

UNDERSTANDING YOUR PLAYERS

Whether you play with masked attributes or unmasked as a setting honestly makes little difference. Thats because hidden attributes play a big part in the game. A players mental state can affect him if the team goes down by a goal.  No two players will deal with pressure the same way.  

Playing without ANY attributes forces me to drill into each players performances, it makes me pay more attention to slight nuances in the 3D representation of what happens in game. I spend more time thinking of how the player is reacting to my shouts. And I look at statistics to tell me if a player is working hard enough, or whether he has the football smarts to do what  I need him to do.

Its challenging playing like this, because playing with attributes makes things easy and misleading at the same time. Its easy to think you may have found the right player for a role, but its also misleading because there is more information out there that can paint a different picture.

I am sure many of you have signed a striker and gone on to question the signing when he's failed to do the job. There are numbers in the game that will tell you if a player is a great finisher, whether he spends more time trying create chances for others. Numbers exist within the game that can split the difference between two players and tell you one is better than another simply in terms of how he can read the player before others.

Statistics can help you determine which of your players has been performing better over a period of time and numbers don't lie unless of course you have been doing something crazy in the background to make them unreliable and naturally we need to assume that the numbers are accurate. 

Whats to come

So here's a primer. I was out looking for a great striker, we had one in the team but he simply wasn't scoring as many as I would have liked. We went out to search for another. So I created a view and a filter. 

The custom view  gave me access to information about a team, which I now use across multiple saves

I also created filters. More on that in a future update. but for now. Lets cut to the chase.

I wanted a striker who had a good XG/Goals ratio.  I spotted someone called Morten Hansen who had played 12 matches for the senior team and had a 9/4 ratio which is a lot. In other words he had an XG of 4 and goals of 9. 

We sent a scout out to reveal his hidden qualities. He was spirited, pacey and consistent with good versatility.  Without even looking at his attributes we signed him. 

 

He is only 18 and he has transformed our attack.

PLAYING BY STATISTICS ALONE
I am not recommending that everyone go out and play without attributes. In fact playing without attributes requires you to do several things:

Playable Leagues vs Non Playable Leagues

In playable leagues and depending on your detail level you have access to stats and match reports. This makes playing without attributes a possibility, you dont have access to stats from non playable leagues. If you are playing view only then you will have limited access to stats.

From what I have gathered its best to play with a combination of playable and view only leagues. My database has 170k players in it and I cant remember how many leagues are loaded. I think there are a lot.

A COLD START
When you begin a save, invariably your appointment happens in July, by then no statistics are available for the preceding season, which makes playing without attributes almost impossible for someone trying in the lower leagues where we sign players by trialing or picking up free transfers. Most free agents hardly ever play a game. So statistics will be in short supply. So you need to do your scouting my June 23rd. 

You can go attributeless on any skin all you need to do is go to preferences>Skin Colours> Advanced settings > and set the "A" value for RGBA settings to "0"
 

With a cold start, after taking over a club, well you end up depending on your assistant managers recommendations or just using the role ability algorithm to make judgements on what roles your players can play and once the statistics start to show you make adjustments. This is naturally harder and something I wouldn't recommend to anyone unless they were @Cleon

An alternative and probably easier method is to use the first window in preseason to leave attributes on until preseason is over without signing ANY players. Then once you are comfortable with your team you turn attributes off.

Funny thing, you do have access to attributes if you go to training and progress. For me this is usually more than enough.

TRAINING AND YOUTH DEVELOPMENT

Min maxers of training will probably not enjoy this style very much because they are the sort to move a player from one role to another because they want to develop players in a targeted way. And its understandable, because its slower than having all the attributes available at one glance.

When training players I spend more time looking at 3d and stats to make my evaluation. I also typically follow a simple plan when it comes to youth players.

If I want them to get a crack at the senior team early I use role training that is simple. Young strikers are put on poacher training for example. Or I just assign them into roles that they are expected to play in the tactic. 

So far I have not seen too much downside to training, since my training is generally balanced anyway.

TACTICAL SHENNANIGANS

I usually look at stats after a few games to determine who should do what. The stats I am looking at really depends on the system I plan to play, and, its not going to be the same for every team. Some teams may see a bigger focus on defensive and positional awareness. Maybe I am an underdog and I need to make sure my defenders are positionally and physically solid. So I may zoom in on height and interceptions as a requirement for the majority of my players.

So a one size fits all is something I want to avoid sharing. This is what I am doing with Palermo in my current livestream. Now please be aware my journey playing attributeless with them only happened this season. Every new player now being added and every match plan I make for my opponents is now being decided without attributes.

With Palermo for example Support players need good interceptions, passing completion %, tackling ratios.  Some may need good key passes/90. 

When I go into streams you will notice my match preparation before the Arsenal and Bayern games which we won and you would have seen me checking the stats of the opposing teams and sometimes even watching highlights or their losses. I would do this to prepare my choice of starting 11.

My adventures playing like this will continue and I do plan on updating this thread in the near future. It will feel a bit strange trying to recall matches I have played and then trying to capture them all in words now, but I will try and do this for maybe the next one or two matches before the next livestream on youtube.  Check that..... after tonights livestream. Got kids now.

Feel free to ask questions, meanwhile I want to continue singing songs of Hansen.
 

[Cleon]

I actually had one of the skinners from the skinning forum on here, make me panels that removed all attributes from the game and same with star ratings. So players, staff etc had none and the training screens you showed above had all been removed too. There was no way to stumble across them by accident at all in the game, it's great fun. I used fake players too so I didn't know who anyway was to add another level of complexity too. I also manually scout players when my scouts found someone (or if I use the data available to identify someone instead) too and give them grades based on a very complex system that I've created for myself to make it more immersive. Every single position and role is graded differently too. I plan on writing about it for FM23 in more detail, I've already done a lot in preparation for the launch of the new website.

In regards to trying to recall matches from the past, I have a Google Doc open when playing and if something interesting happens during a game I write a few notes down and instantly save the PKM and upload it to the document. That way, if I have the notes I can flesh them out into a story/analysis etc.

[mikelfc8]

Really cool.

Apart from anything else, trying (and probably failing a lot) in a save like this would force me to learn much more about interpreting data. Something I need to do. The importance of numbers, both in the game and in the real game, is only going to go one way. The scientific method rules

I'll be following this with great interest.

[danielgear]

I’m the same as @Cleon got it skinned so full removal of all attributes to increase immersion and remove any option to view them.

also scouting players by watching games and seeing how they performance in certain situations to go beyond the statistics. 
 

The thing I found most rewarding was using the stats to find players who play in other positions than the one I’m looking for to find outliers and then retraining them.

[mikcheck]

@Cleon do you think you'd still be able to play that way in FM21 version? I'm asking this because (and I haven't played FM22 yet) it look like FM22 has more player data to show, like the player perfomance for example, which 21 version doesn't have.

Thanks.

[Cleon]

31 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

@Cleon do you think you'd still be able to play that way in FM21 version? I'm asking this because (and I haven't played FM22 yet) it look like FM22 has more player data to show, like the player perfomance for example, which 21 version doesn't have.

Thanks.

Yups I have done it on my main save every year for 5 years now I think.

[EnigMattic1]

@Cleon, @danielgear What would be a good skin to use? I have always wanted to play this way but I am picky when it comes to skins.

@Rashidi I know this thread is about your players, but how would you go about building your backroom staff? One would assume their attributes are also hidden and there are no stats generated for them.

[Cleon]

2 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

@Cleon, @danielgear What would be a good skin to use? I have always wanted to play this way but I am picky when it comes to skins.

@Rashidi I know this thread is about your players, but how would you go about building your backroom staff? One would assume their attributes are also hidden and there are no stats generated for them.

I use Tato and remove/hide all the panels that need doing. Well I say "I" but I mean the lad who creates the panels for me  Sadly I can't share them though as I was asked not to make them public for some reason. But Rashidi's method in his post is a decent work around to hide the attributes. Then just avoid the pages where stuff isn't removed like the progress tab etc.

 

[EnigMattic1]

27 minutes ago, Cleon said:

I use Tato and remove/hide all the panels that need doing. Well I say "I" but I mean the lad who creates the panels for me  Sadly I can't share them though as I was asked not to make them public for some reason. But Rashidi's method in his post is a decent work around to hide the attributes. Then just avoid the pages where stuff isn't removed like the progress tab etc.

 

Thanks, I will take a look.

[04texag]

Something that would really help this approach would be to add the ability to create custom views to the stats tabs/reports on your own players. 

 

I'm probably missing something, but you can't see the same level of stats on your own players as you can with scouted. On the scouted players screen you can change the view and add lots of stats. 

[Guest]

I have played attributeless for the last three iterations and will never go back because I found I was overlooking a lot of very good players based on their attributes rather than their stats.

@wkdsoulmade these great panels which I have tried to emulate myself (minus the attributes obviously) but I'm seriously useless at this sort of stuff. It would be awesome if some pointers could be given to people who are wanting to go attributeless completely on how to set up stats only panels.

[Garrlor]

10 hours ago, Cleon said:

I actually had one of the skinners from the skinning forum on here, make me panels that removed all attributes from the game and same with star ratings. So players, staff etc had none and the training screens you showed above had all been removed too. There was no way to stumble across them by accident at all in the game, it's great fun. I used fake players too so I didn't know who anyway was to add another level of complexity too. I also manually scout players when my scouts found someone (or if I use the data available to identify someone instead) too and give them grades based on a very complex system that I've created for myself to make it more immersive. Every single position and role is graded differently too. I plan on writing about it for FM23 in more detail, I've already done a lot in preparation for the launch of the new website.

In regards to trying to recall matches from the past, I have a Google Doc open when playing and if something interesting happens during a game I write a few notes down and instantly save the PKM and upload it to the document. That way, if I have the notes I can flesh them out into a story/analysis etc.

IIRC you were playing in Brazil in FM18 and also trying to get a SV working well without attributes.

[wkdsoul]

5 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I have played attributeless for the last three iterations and will never go back because I found I was overlooking a lot of very good players based on their attributes rather than their stats.

@wkdsoulmade these great panels which I have tried to emulate myself (minus the attributes obviously) but I'm seriously useless at this sort of stuff. It would be awesome if some pointers could be given to people who are wanting to go attributeless completely on how to set up stats only panels.

 

 

Ive still got the code for these two somwhere, i'll dig it out and send it over tomo. 

[EnigMattic1]

5 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

Ive still got the code for these two somwhere, i'll dig it out and send it over tomo. 

It would be amazing if these were available. It would add a totally new dimension to the game.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

Ive still got the code for these two somwhere, i'll dig it out and send it over tomo. 

That would be amazing!!!!

[wkdsoul]

6 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

That would be amazing!!!!

code for the data hub boxes (Nunez Image) : the category number relates to each of the below (ive not worked out the team ones yet)

        <!--Performance-->
    <widget class="data_analyst_visualisation_widget" id="vis3" visualisation_type="polygon" data_type="player" category="3" file="widgets/data analyst visualisation mini2" hidden="false">
                        <record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt" />
                        <record id="object_property" get_property="PclC" set_property="comp" />
    </widget>

 

	visualisation type="polygon" data type="player"
0	Team General	TEAM GENERAL
1	Team Attacking	TEAM OFFENSIVE
2	Team Defending	TEAM DEFENSIVE
3	Defending	DEFENSIVE DEFENDER
4	Defensive Midfielder	DEFENSIVE CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
5	Wide Play	DEFENSIVE WIDE MIDFIELDER
6	Pressing	DEFENSIVE FORWARD
7	Creativity 1	CREATIVE DEFENDER
8	Midfield	CREATIVE CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
9	Creativity 2	CREATIVE WIDE FORWARD
10	Creativty 3	CREATIVE CENTRAL FORWARD
11	General Performance	BALANCED
12	Wide Play 2	ATTACKING WIDE DEFENDER
13	Attacking	ATTACKING CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
14	Attacking 2	ATTACKING WIDE FORWARD
15	Attacking 3	ATTACKING CENTRAL FORWARD
16	Goalkeeping	DEFENSIVE GOALKEEPER
17	Goalkeeping 2	OFFENSIVE GOALKEEPER

 

The code for the yemachuk (data hub)

                <widget class="data_hub_player_analytics_panel" id="tab4" late_loading="true"  file="data_hub/data hub player analytics panel" dont_set_embedded_title="true">
                            <translation id="title" type="use" value="Data Hub" />
                            <record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt"/>
                        </widget>

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

code for the data hub boxes (Nunez Image) : the category number relates to each of the below (ive not worked out the team ones yet)

        <!--Performance-->
    <widget class="data_analyst_visualisation_widget" id="vis3" visualisation_type="polygon" data_type="player" category="3" file="widgets/data analyst visualisation mini2" hidden="false">
                        <record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt" />
                        <record id="object_property" get_property="PclC" set_property="comp" />
    </widget>

 

	visualisation type="polygon" data type="player"
0	Team General	TEAM GENERAL
1	Team Attacking	TEAM OFFENSIVE
2	Team Defending	TEAM DEFENSIVE
3	Defending	DEFENSIVE DEFENDER
4	Defensive Midfielder	DEFENSIVE CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
5	Wide Play	DEFENSIVE WIDE MIDFIELDER
6	Pressing	DEFENSIVE FORWARD
7	Creativity 1	CREATIVE DEFENDER
8	Midfield	CREATIVE CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
9	Creativity 2	CREATIVE WIDE FORWARD
10	Creativty 3	CREATIVE CENTRAL FORWARD
11	General Performance	BALANCED
12	Wide Play 2	ATTACKING WIDE DEFENDER
13	Attacking	ATTACKING CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
14	Attacking 2	ATTACKING WIDE FORWARD
15	Attacking 3	ATTACKING CENTRAL FORWARD
16	Goalkeeping	DEFENSIVE GOALKEEPER
17	Goalkeeping 2	OFFENSIVE GOALKEEPER

 

The code for the yemachuk (data hub)

                <widget class="data_hub_player_analytics_panel" id="tab4" late_loading="true"  file="data_hub/data hub player analytics panel" dont_set_embedded_title="true">
                            <translation id="title" type="use" value="Data Hub" />
                            <record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt"/>
                        </widget>

 

I feel like Christmas has come early thank you so much. 

[wkdsoul]

7 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I feel like Christmas has come early thank you so much. 

Any prob send me a PM and i'll see what I can do.  In the middle of a skin revamp anyway. 

[Rashidi]

THE GOALKEEPERS DILEMMA

Traditionally assessing a keeper through stats has been difficult. We have usually just gone with how many has he conceded. Today we have the xGmodel which doesn't make things easier. What numbers are we supposed to look at, there can be a lot. Do we look at xG against, conceded, shots on target against?  That was my recent issue.

So our goalkeeper Matteo Pisseri has opted to retire, previously in my games I would just search by attributes it made life easy. Now with this different approach, I have found that keepers can be a lot more annoying to find. 

in the game from custom views we can only generate these statisitics
1. Clean Sheets
2. Conceded
3. Conceded/90
4. Save Ratio (which doesn't split between shots from outside the box and those from inside the box)
5. Expected Save Percentage (which I assume is the inverse of xG in other words these is the percentage of shots he was expected to save, more on this later)
6. Saves Held, Tipped and Parried
7. Mistakes Leading to goal

 

When you go to player performance reports from coaches you get under Advanced Goalkeeping a scattergroup that plots expected goals prevented vs save percentage which is incredibly helpful if we had expected goals prevented as a searchable option under custom view. Why?

Save Ratio by itself can and is usually misleading, it needs other metrics.

A goal area is roughly 244cmx732cm and an average goalkeeper is expected to cover 24% of the goals area ( gonna avoid the math here and keep things simple), but if we assume keepers are 1.90 on average and you use those dimensions you will arrive at a similar number using a vitruvian circle to assume the goalkeepers area.  On average most keepers save around 69% of shots on target, these ratios will depend on whether the shot is inside the box or outside the box.

Therefore since a keeper already covers 24% of the area of a goal, it implies that 45% of his saves (which is basically 69%-24%) will come from..... his attributes :-) I don't think we are too far away since, on average the penalty conversion rate is around 76%.

Ideally to evaluate any keeper it would be easier if we had ...

Clean sheets per 90 vs Shots on target against per 90 as a statistic by teams which we currently don't. Why would this be helpful, If we plotted that as scattergroup then any keeper who faces a high shots on target against per 90 and has a high number of clean sheets would be extremely valuable. Such keepers are keeping a high number of clean sheets in spite of facing many shots

THE SAVE RATIO

Save ratios are helpful, but they don't account for how sides defend. Lets say you have a very organised defence and you are giving strikers poor quality chances, then a keepers save ratio could be higher than a keeper who has a poor defence that allows them more shots from within the area.  What we need is Expected goals per shot on target against.  We also need to add  Expected Goals Conceded/90 to the filters as well. The best thing we have at the moment is expected goals prevented and I would hope that is added as an option we can filter.

So I have ended up at a crossroads on my save as I decide how to find my keeper with the current tools without having to use an excel spreadsheet, cos I made a promise to myself that I would NEVER use spreadsheets for a game ever again :-)

INFORMATION ACCESSIBLE BY LEAGUES

Within the league data we can find under Player Detailed several bits of information, and I think I found a workable ratio, 

Expected Save Percentage:   I am assuming this stat calculates the difficulty of the shots a goalkeeper faces, based on variables such as shot placement, velocity, distance, etc, to determine the chance that an average keeper will save the shot. Basically in a nutshell, the chance to save a shot.

Expected Goals Prevented - Essentially how many high chance goals a keeper prevented

Saves per 90

Expected saves per 90

So this is how I am gonna find my next keeper:

A keepers Expected Save Percentage cannot be lower than his save ratio,

In our own league we have these keepers who have a decent expected goals prevented. Next

My eyes immediately land on Andrei Vlad

 

Now there is a scatter group for advanced goalkeeping stats which is why i recommend you always SAVE before Jun 23, otherwise you could lose the preceding seasons stats. When you go to check Reports>PLayer Performance, you will be able to access the scattergroups.

We want our goalkeepers to be in the Quality Shotstopping/saves most shots quadrant. And it clearly shows that I am heading in the right path when I search for a keeper, Andre Vlad is in the same quadrant, his expected goals prevented is slightly better, and if I use this method, who needs attributes!  So this keeper is a firm B, in my books. A would be the keepers higher than 80% and >6 prevented.

 

 

[wkdsoul]

8 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I feel like Christmas has come early thank you so much. 

working on my juego de posicion game.. (well trying to skin the marking where any pitch/tactic is)

 

 

[04texag]

5 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

working on my juego de posicion game.. (well trying to skin the marking where any pitch/tactic is)

 

 

Oh ..I need this. 

Or at least did when running my threads on this. I still always try to play this way tactically.

[EnigMattic1]

9 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

working on my juego de posicion game.. (well trying to skin the marking where any pitch/tactic is)

 

 

Guardiola style!! That would be so much easier than a piece of paper and a pen..............

[Guest]

12 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

working on my juego de posicion game.. (well trying to skin the marking where any pitch/tactic is)

 

 

You have a real talent bud. Thats another thing of beauty and for a person like me whose a big proponent of Juego de Posición it's lovely. I want to thank you again for sharing the code for the panels, it's really appreciated.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Rashidi said:

THE GOALKEEPERS DILEMMA

Traditionally assessing a keeper through stats has been difficult. We have usually just gone with how many has he conceded. Today we have the xGmodel which doesn't make things easier. What numbers are we supposed to look at, there can be a lot. Do we look at xG against, conceded, shots on target against?  That was my recent issue.

So our goalkeeper Matteo Pisseri has opted to retire, previously in my games I would just search by attributes it made life easy. Now with this different approach, I have found that keepers can be a lot more annoying to find. 

in the game from custom views we can only generate these statisitics
1. Clean Sheets
2. Conceded
3. Conceded/90
4. Save Ratio (which doesn't split between shots from outside the box and those from inside the box)
5. Expected Save Percentage (which I assume is the inverse of xG in other words these is the percentage of shots he was expected to save, more on this later)
6. Saves Held, Tipped and Parried
7. Mistakes Leading to goal

 

When you go to player performance reports from coaches you get under Advanced Goalkeeping a scattergroup that plots expected goals prevented vs save percentage which is incredibly helpful if we had expected goals prevented as a searchable option under custom view. Why?

Save Ratio by itself can and is usually misleading, it needs other metrics.

A goal area is roughly 244cmx732cm and an average goalkeeper is expected to cover 24% of the goals area ( gonna avoid the math here and keep things simple), but if we assume keepers are 1.90 on average and you use those dimensions you will arrive at a similar number using a vitruvian circle to assume the goalkeepers area.  On average most keepers save around 69% of shots on target, these ratios will depend on whether the shot is inside the box or outside the box.

Therefore since a keeper already covers 24% of the area of a goal, it implies that 45% of his saves (which is basically 69%-24%) will come from..... his attributes :-) I don't think we are too far away since, on average the penalty conversion rate is around 76%.

Ideally to evaluate any keeper it would be easier if we had ...

Clean sheets per 90 vs Shots on target against per 90 as a statistic by teams which we currently don't. Why would this be helpful, If we plotted that as scattergroup then any keeper who faces a high shots on target against per 90 and has a high number of clean sheets would be extremely valuable. Such keepers are keeping a high number of clean sheets in spite of facing many shots

THE SAVE RATIO

Save ratios are helpful, but they don't account for how sides defend. Lets say you have a very organised defence and you are giving strikers poor quality chances, then a keepers save ratio could be higher than a keeper who has a poor defence that allows them more shots from within the area.  What we need is Expected goals per shot on target against.  We also need to add  Expected Goals Conceded/90 to the filters as well. The best thing we have at the moment is expected goals prevented and I would hope that is added as an option we can filter.

So I have ended up at a crossroads on my save as I decide how to find my keeper with the current tools without having to use an excel spreadsheet, cos I made a promise to myself that I would NEVER use spreadsheets for a game ever again :-)

INFORMATION ACCESSIBLE BY LEAGUES

Within the league data we can find under Player Detailed several bits of information, and I think I found a workable ratio, 

Expected Save Percentage:   I am assuming this stat calculates the difficulty of the shots a goalkeeper faces, based on variables such as shot placement, velocity, distance, etc, to determine the chance that an average keeper will save the shot. Basically in a nutshell, the chance to save a shot.

Expected Goals Prevented - Essentially how many high chance goals a keeper prevented

Saves per 90

Expected saves per 90

So this is how I am gonna find my next keeper:

A keepers Expected Save Percentage cannot be lower than his save ratio,

In our own league we have these keepers who have a decent expected goals prevented. Next

My eyes immediately land on Andrei Vlad

 

Now there is a scatter group for advanced goalkeeping stats which is why i recommend you always SAVE before Jun 23, otherwise you could lose the preceding seasons stats. When you go to check Reports>PLayer Performance, you will be able to access the scattergroups.

We want our goalkeepers to be in the Quality Shotstopping/saves most shots quadrant. And it clearly shows that I am heading in the right path when I search for a keeper, Andre Vlad is in the same quadrant, his expected goals prevented is slightly better, and if I use this method, who needs attributes!  So this keeper is a firm B, in my books. A would be the keepers higher than 80% and >6 prevented.

 

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread. I'm really happy that I'm realizing we use the same stats for the same positions. I'm so happy attributeless play is gaining more traction and you are one of the key people to convert people to do this.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Crazy_Ivan

[EnigMattic1]

@Rashidi, I notice on your squad view that you have the column for "playing style". How much attention do you pay to that and does it make sense trying to get a decent mixture of playing styles or is it better to try and have more players with the same style? I do know that the actual column title is something along the lines of "Assistants opinion" so it could change depending on the assistant, but it is also something I have never really paid much attention to before.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

@Rashidi, I notice on your squad view that you have the column for "playing style". How much attention do you pay to that and does it make sense trying to get a decent mixture of playing styles or is it better to try and have more players with the same style? I do know that the actual column title is something along the lines of "Assistants opinion" so it could change depending on the assistant, but it is also something I have never really paid much attention to before.

My word, thank you I have been trying to work out how he got that. Can I ask how you get the pros/cons too please?

[Rashidi]

2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

 key people to convert people to do this.

I am not trying to convert people to it, I still think people should play the game the way they want to play it. And if people feel attributes are the way to go, I am all for it. I am just doing this so people don't forget that stats can be just as important. And I think people who can incorporate both an understanding of attributes and statistical discovery will have a lot more fun playing the game.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I am not trying to convert people to it, I still think people should play the game the way they want to play it. And if people feel attributes are the way to go, I am all for it. I am just doing this so people don't forget that stats can be just as important. And I think people who can incorporate both an understanding of attributes and statistical discovery will have a lot more fun playing the game.

I was literally in the process of editing that comment when you responded. I didn't mean it to sound like that I  meant to incorporate stats more.

[Rashidi]

8 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

@Rashidi, I notice on your squad view that you have the column for "playing style". How much attention do you pay to that and does it make sense trying to get a decent mixture of playing styles or is it better to try and have more players with the same style? I do know that the actual column title is something along the lines of "Assistants opinion" so it could change depending on the assistant, but it is also something I have never really paid much attention to before.

I like to have players with a mix. And yeah it is one of the filters from  Scouts  opinion of players style.

[wkdsoul]

2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

You have a real talent bud. Thats another thing of beauty and for a person like me whose a big proponent of Juego de Posición it's lovely. I want to thank you again for sharing the code for the panels, it's really appreciated.

this needs alot of cleaning up, but might have something sorted in a week or two. ill whip it over when im done.

[Rashidi]

OUR SEARCH FOR A KEEPER

I just finished the stream spent the first 5 minutes muted which is a normal thing for me..erm

The search for a keeper was focused on looking at several metrics

1. Conceded/90 v Expected goals conceded per 90

2. Expected goals Prevented vs Save ratio

 

The first metric depends on your team and you need to do a deeper dive. The second metric is faster but less accurate but at least you get a picture of whether a keeper is reliant. We whittled it down to a couple of keepers. There were several contenders, one was Russo who happened to have some crazy numbers in Serie B and we decided to bring him on as a backup.  For less than 1m that was a no brainer.

When you scout players depending on your skin you can get detailed scattergroups and polygons. With tato these are found within a tab. A young brazilian keeper caught our eye. By 18 he had had two full seasons of football with a top flight brazilian club. 

His expected goals prevented vs save ratio indicated he was good.
|

The media description of him was "Commanding Goalkeeper" we signed him for 17million which is the most I have ever paid for a player ( i never scrooge on keepers btw), and then once he joined the club his description changed to Wonderkid and his value went from 17million to around 70million.

 

 

 

[mikelfc8]

@RashidiThat keeper certainly vindicates the approach. Did you expect it to be so successful so immediately?

 

This may be a daft question, but can you access stats from previous seasons?

[Rashidi]

3 hours ago, mikelfc8 said:

@RashidiThat keeper certainly vindicates the approach. Did you expect it to be so successful so immediately?

 

This may be a daft question, but can you access stats from previous seasons?

Well the keeper fluffed his very first shot against in the Serie A so I guess it was nerves because he produced some outstanding matches in the next few. He was rated 7.6 even when we lost one game. Overall though he was solid between the sticks against Atalanta whom we destroyed 3-0.

Really happy with our keeper signing. Stands tall when needed, Loads of solid reflex saves and is already just behind Mike Maignan and Onana as the most effective keepers in Serie A.

And, no you cant access previous season chalkboard stats from within the game. If you want to keep them you need to export them before Jun 23 out to an excel spreadsheet. Personally i am > 50 years and my days of using excel sheets for playing FM died in the days of CM. I don't want to play FM with an excel spreadsheet. Its actually pretty easy to export and keep them in an excel spreadsheet.

[mikelfc8]

11 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Well the keeper fluffed his very first shot against in the Serie A so I guess it was nerves because he produced some outstanding matches in the next few. He was rated 7.6 even when we lost one game. Overall though he was solid between the sticks against Atalanta whom we destroyed 3-0.

Really happy with our keeper signing. Stands tall when needed, Loads of solid reflex saves and is already just behind Mike Maignan and Onana as the most effective keepers in Serie A.

And, no you cant access previous season chalkboard stats from within the game. If you want to keep them you need to export them before Jun 23 out to an excel spreadsheet. Personally i am > 50 years and my days of using excel sheets for playing FM died in the days of CM. I don't want to play FM with an excel spreadsheet. Its actually pretty easy to export and keep them in an excel spreadsheet.

I'm with you on that, spreadsheets seem too much like work.

it's a shame the game doesn't retain the information, it could tell some interesting tales.

The keeper sounds excellent, but there's never any accounting for first night nerves.

[Christopher S]

On 23/07/2022 at 14:44, wkdsoul said:

code for the data hub boxes (Nunez Image) : the category number relates to each of the below (ive not worked out the team ones yet)

        <!--Performance-->
    <widget class="data_analyst_visualisation_widget" id="vis3" visualisation_type="polygon" data_type="player" category="3" file="widgets/data analyst visualisation mini2" hidden="false">
                        <record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt" />
                        <record id="object_property" get_property="PclC" set_property="comp" />
    </widget>

 

	visualisation type="polygon" data type="player"
0	Team General	TEAM GENERAL
1	Team Attacking	TEAM OFFENSIVE
2	Team Defending	TEAM DEFENSIVE
3	Defending	DEFENSIVE DEFENDER
4	Defensive Midfielder	DEFENSIVE CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
5	Wide Play	DEFENSIVE WIDE MIDFIELDER
6	Pressing	DEFENSIVE FORWARD
7	Creativity 1	CREATIVE DEFENDER
8	Midfield	CREATIVE CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
9	Creativity 2	CREATIVE WIDE FORWARD
10	Creativty 3	CREATIVE CENTRAL FORWARD
11	General Performance	BALANCED
12	Wide Play 2	ATTACKING WIDE DEFENDER
13	Attacking	ATTACKING CENTRAL MIDFIELDER
14	Attacking 2	ATTACKING WIDE FORWARD
15	Attacking 3	ATTACKING CENTRAL FORWARD
16	Goalkeeping	DEFENSIVE GOALKEEPER
17	Goalkeeping 2	OFFENSIVE GOALKEEPER

 

The code for the yemachuk (data hub)

                <widget class="data_hub_player_analytics_panel" id="tab4" late_loading="true"  file="data_hub/data hub player analytics panel" dont_set_embedded_title="true">
                            <translation id="title" type="use" value="Data Hub" />
                            <record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt"/>
                        </widget>

 

So how do I actually use this code? Sorry if it's a stupid question

[Rashidi]

THE METRICS
 

Time to list out the metrics that I usually pay attention to, these are to assess players. As far as squad performance goes, I will update it later with another post.

There are plenty of people who play the game using metrics. Some use them to develop a moneyball strategy others just use metrics to determine the best players for the system. I typically land in the latter group. However when it comes to signing players I usually think in moneyball terms by attributing their values. To do so I will usually use a simple way of doing this by evaluating a metric and then dividing it by the salary per annum of the player. I prefer using salary per annum as my budgeting is usually done annually.  There are some notable content creators, but the best one I am aware of is FMStag who even has a calculator you can use to do moneyball strategies. I myself don't want to use excel spreadsheets as I want a simple way of doing it. Using spreadsheets is definitely a superior way, but I just don't want to play the export/import game on between FM and Excel.

I will list out all the metrics explain why they are important for me and then within this post or maybe within another I will use case studies to explain my decisions.

Caveat: For any player evaluation to be accurate, that player should be within a playable league. In other words, if you want your data to be accurate, playable leagues are the way to go. When you evaluate players you typically need a good data range. You ideally need players to have made at least 5-10 appearances. If you out to sign wonderkids, I have done a video on this and will link it to this thread later, which explains how I use filters to find the best wonderkids. The principles of both are almost the same.

All examples I mention below with data, come after one season of simulation.

GOALKEEPERS

Save Ratio-  Measures how many shots a keeper saves against those taken. 
Generally most average keepers will have an average ratio of 69%.  Shots outside the area usually have a higher save ratio. The game however does not distinguish between the two, and a good yardstick for a decent keeper is around 75%.

So if you want to search for a good keeper you start with a 75% save ratio.

Expected Goals Prevented - This piece of information is only available via the league detail stats for goalkeepers. And you cant really filter it. What I recommend doing is to have as many leagues set to playable. This is where you will need to shortlist all keepers with a high save ratio, then physically check each keepers advanced goalkeeper statistics. Some skins may help you with that information or you may need to go to the league stats. Within a leagues player detailed stats you will find information on the keepers

Expected goals prevented basically informs you on the quality of his shotstopping, the more he prevented these high xG chances the better a shot stopper he is.

Saves Tipped/Parried/Held - While this information is useful, it only serves to paint a picture of the type of keeper you have. If you want someone with good handling chances are he will be generating more “held” numbers than “tipped” or “parried”
 

Outfield Stats

FOR ROLES/POSITIONS THAT REQUIRE DEFENSIVE CONTRIBUTIONS

Clearances - When a defender has high clearances, it means that he brings the ball out of defence to clear it with a pass. So double check that against pass completion or key passes. Clearances can be a very good indicator for a ball playing defender

Headers Won Ratio Central defenders need to win headers. I expect most central defenders to win at least 85% of all headers. If you find anyone who does higher numbers than that, its worth investigating.

Height - In simple terms a player who is at least 1.9 is likely to have a high jumping reach, and if he has good headers won ratios, then he could have good heading.

Interceptions per 90 or Possession won per 90 Either one of these tells us that a player is great at reading the game. He most likely has good anticipation and concentration.  I rate this very highly for all players. 

Tackles won ratio - This tells us how many successful a player is at winning the tackle.  Some strikers could have good tackles ratio, which is indicative of bravery and aggression.

Tackles Per Game - Aside from the ratio, tackles per game give us an idea of how many tackles a player makes. Be wary of this, there might be times when some players may have more tackles per game, this doesn't necessarily mean they are good, just that their side tends to be more defensive. While I do value tackling metrics, I place interceptions per 90 at a higher level because that metric indicates the footballing intelligence of a player. 

Key Tackles - How many times a tackle stopped a goal scoring chance.  When I signed Tobias Sagusten Andersen for Palermo at the age of 17 for free, he was already making a few senior appearances for his club in Norway. His data indicated that even at 17 he was winning 87% of his headers and more importantly he had a high number of key tackles. With his interceptions per 90 at almost 4, I didn't hesitate to sign him without even looking at his attributes. He was signed by Palermo in Serie C, he is now the captain and one of the leading defenders in the Serie A. 

These group of metrics serve to outline a players defensive contribution to a game. Ball playing defenders typically have good clearances. Any player who brings the ball out of defence will have higher clearances than a player that does not. A player who generally has a good spread of outfield stats that cover these general defensive contributions is a player that will be good in most roles that require him to support midfield and defence.  

ROLES/POSITIONS THAT REQUIRE CREATIVE OUTPUT

Key Passes/90

Key passes are basically a cross or pass that led to a goal scoring chance taken. If a goal is scored then that key pass is registered as an assist. A key pass can come from set pieces or open play. Players who can produce a high number of key passes could either be skillful at playing a killer pass or great at set pieces. Its another important metric to check.

If I am looking for players in midfield to unlock defenses I am normally looking for players who do around 1-2 key passes a game. When it comes to fullbacks who are expected to cross I am looking at around 3-4 key passes a game. If my game is based on a heavy crossing style then I expect even more, but I rarely go above 4. Generally when a player is doing more than 4 I always check to see if he is a set piece taker. A player with high key passes per 90 is worth checking out because either his set pieces are usually generating goal scoring chances or he is great at unlocking defenses with killer passes. This ties in very closely to assists and clear cut chances.

The issue with key passes/90 is that completed crosses that don't lead to a goal or a freekick that connects but is saved by a keeper are also counted. So I tend to add

Crosses Completed
If a player has high key passes/90 and high crosses, I will hesitate, I may even go into his detailed stats, watch a game or two to find out if he is taking set pieces.  The combination of key passes/90 and high crosses completed could indicate a player who delivers set pieces very well. A good example would be Bernado Silva. In a simulated season of data I discovered that he was doing 1.72 key passes per game with 13 assists but he also had 70 crosses completed. This told me that he was probably having a large number of his goal scoring chances coming from crosses.

ASSISTS AND CCCS

A completed cross that ends up in a goal is not counted as a key pass but as an assist. A ccc is a goal scoring chance in the game. I noticed that since FM22 when you mouseover cccs, it now says overall number of chances created instead of clear cut chances. This also correlates to the data that I have been studying. 

Dribbles per 90 

This is a useful metric to identify two kinds of players. Strong wingbacks and outfield players who like to break tiers by dribbling through them. A player who can dribble can carry the ball through the tiers forcing sides to collapse on themselves. Since the player is skillfully bringing the ball up, defending sides tend to fall back. Sometimes more than one defending player can be drawn to a skilled dribbler. Eden Hazard in his prime was one such player, who used that skill to drive at defenses drawing opposition players to him thereby creating space for others.

Dribbles per 90 is useful to identify mezzalas too. You don’t need a high number you just need someone who is doing between 1-1.6 a game. Players like Carlos Soler can do around 1.67 dribbles per game. Another good example, Christian Eriksen who does around 1.45, James Maddison, 1.37 and Luca Paqueta at around 1.2.  
 

Fouled Against is also useful, a player who has a high FA number next to him is usually one that the AI targets with hard tackling. Every time your assistant manager recommends hard tackling as an OI its usually against a player who needs to be stopped. And players with high dribbling, agility, first touch are usually the targets. 

Bernardo Silva typically receives the most fouls against in a season as a midfielder. So if I were looking for a winger, inside forward, inverted winger or a mezzala on attack. I would zoom in on dribbles/90, fouls against, key passes/90 and pass completion rate.

Distance covered per 90 - Is a useful measure and sometimes can help you determine if a player is pacey, but its a very inaccurate measure.  While a high distance covered/90 might indicate good work rate, you still need to send your scouts out to find out if a player has pace. Thats really the only way.

Passes completed per 90  High key passes alone isn't usually enough to identify great playmakers, you also need to know if they playing a lot of passes during a game, generating ccc and of course getting assists.

Pass Completion Ratio - Indicates how many passes a player completed

A player with high passes/90 with low key passes/90 could simply be playing as a central midfielder on defend duty within a system that is generally played on balanced mentality, suggesting that the player makes a lot of short passes. A playmaker would generally be seeing around 1.76 key passes a game with high passes per 90.

In a simulated season, Casemiro had 87 passes per 90 but only 0.87 key passes with an assists/90 number of 0.10, which suggests that his playing as a CM(D).  Frankie de Jong on the other hand had 80 passes per 90 with 1.56 key passes a game which suggested he was playing a bigger part. When scouting the player I found that he also had the trait plays short simple passes, this suggests that he could have been played as an advanced playmaker on support or a mezzala on attack. I did find someone even better Jude Bellingham who tore through the creative numbers and had a good xg/goals ratio to boot.  
 

SCORING STATS


Shots/90 vs Shots %

I could be alone on this  but I like to compare these two metrics. I could end up with a striker with a high xG but could be playing for a side that is so good that its generating a high number of shots for him per game.   Personally i get worried when players are taking a LOT of shots to score. The math is in my head somewhere I just need to dig it out. Its late.

xG and Goals 

At the very basic level this tells you how good a player is at scoring. Typically you want a ratio of at least 1.3 or higher, which means that if you find a striker and his xG is 10 he needs to be scoring 13 goals to be considered as a very good finisher of the ball. A player who has a ratio of less than 1 is not finishing his chances. I do not use xG to assess if a player is good at placing himself in good goal scoring positions although I do understand the merit of that. 

The issue with xG numbers in the game is that they cover penalty and non penalty goals. We want to isolate penalties to determine if a player is finishing well in open play. To do that we need to account for penalties

Penalty Scored - xG value of 0.76
Penalty Taken 

Mbappe has an xG of 18.71 for 39 goals which gives him a ratio of 2.1 which indicate that he has fantastic skill, his shot on target is 51%. This alone might suggest one should sign him. However we need to dig a bit deeper.

Now while Mbappe is good, Moussa Dembele is interesting, his ratio is 1.6 with a shot target ratio of 59% which suggests that he usually works the keeper. 

We should not stop there. Some players also take penalties. And penalties are good xG chances valued at 0.76. We want to know how good a player is at converting non penalty chances. So we need to do some calculations to get a better picture.

Kylian Mbappe has an xG of 18.71 and has scored 39 goals. However 7 came from penalties. If each penalty produces an xG of 0.76. Then 7 penalties have to be discounted from his overall xG. This then gives us a value of 13.39 (18.71 - 5.32). And we need to knock 7 goals from the total giving us 32 goals.

His non penalty xG is then 13.39 and he has scored 32 goals. Now if we were to take his annual wage of 21,467,000 , each goal has cost the club 670,843. There are other players who have good xG ratios and could come at a third of his value. That in essence is Moneyball.

If I wanted a striker who had a good xG ratio but could also be a nuisance for defenders I would check their tackles ratio and the tackles per 90 number. Here a standout player would be Dominic Calvert Lewin who has 0.76 tackles per game with a ratio of 70% which means he wins 70% of his tackles plus he has a good xG ratio of 1.8. On top of that he wins 8.2 headers a game with a header won ratio of 67% .I would sign him in a heartbeat. Why?

When I evaluate players I like to get a big picture view. I like to evaluate a players TOTAL contribution during a game. Naturally there are ways in which we can extract this information and then apply them to an excel spreadsheet and finally give scores to players. You could even use excel to create your own scattergroups if you so desired to look for specific kind of players.

What I did in the last example was to evaluate the attacking and defensive contributions of my striker to make my assessment. In a future post I will write about metrics I use to assess my squads performance with my tactic and how I decide who to play and whom not to play.

[Rashidi]

And I said I wouldn't do this, I will do a video to explain this and link it here.  What I plan to do is explain how using my formation as a starting point I go about determining the stats I will be tracking for each position.


When it comes to Scoring stats there are a range of numbers I will evaluate that finally gives me an idea of what a players non penalty goal xG is. Basically how good is he at finishing chances that are not penalties. This can also be a cool way to see if your system is creating chances.

I will also evaluate the creative output of my players, there are a couple of creative types in any team: some cross, some pass, some do set pieces. A basic way is to just whittle them down to chances created per 90 over passes played per 90. That gives us a ratio that is indicative of the proportion of creative output from a player

Finally we have defensive actions that can take several forms, I take all defensive actions ranging from headers won, tackles won and clearances. Interceptions per 90 are also included. I wanted to find a way of splitting key tackles per 90 as well, but i think I will ignore it for now in the calculation. However Key tackles per 90 are usually a decent indicator of how alert a player is at stopping a goal scoring action with a tackle.

And yes I have done a simple spreadsheet, so out of practice.


Thats my team Palermo from this season. There is more but I plan to do that on a stream later today, or rather in the next half hour or so.  

I am still working on this... so there is more to come including a view I use to evaluate my starting 11's contributions during a season. That spreadsheet I linked above can also be used to import data from player search windows.

[CARRERA]

Nice Thread for everyone looking to use a Moneyball approach or just someone who really is into analyzing the teams data / effectiveness 

[Rashidi]

We added Ramiro Hernandez to our team this season. We signed him because he had a good interceptions/90 ratio and stood 1.88m tall. Previously our best defensive pairing was Lorenzo Pirola and Saguesten Anderson. That partnership has lasted from serie C all the way through to Serie A.

After a season of play I typically review how we have done. There are several metrics I like to track:

GWIN, TCON/90 and TGLS/90 

These are broad metrics that can help. Tobias and Pirola as a defensive pairing we win 51% of the time.  When Hernandez plays he is in winning matches 59% of the time. I also created a scoring system for myself that measures striking, creative and defensive actions. I am not the only one to do this, FMStag has also done something like this as well, and I think most people are going to end up along similar paths. 

We are lacking another striking option up front, overplaying Morten Hansen is having its sideffects. So we went out to look for a winger/inside forward. The metrics I used were dribbles/90, goals, xg, ccc created by 90, fouls against, distance/90. The goal here is to find someone who takes on defenders, and either draws fouls or gets inside the area to score.

 

[vkastanas]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

So we went out to look for a winger/inside forward

Where do you use an iside forward to this 4-3-1-2? Or thinking of changing tactics?

[Rashidi]

Yeah i want a multi purpose striker, one who can play as an IF and as a striker

 

[prysiu]

6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

When it comes to Scoring stats there are a range of numbers I will evaluate that finally gives me an idea of what a players non penalty goal xG is. Basically how good is he at finishing chances that are not penalties. This can also be a cool way to see if your system is creating chances.

How do you calculate xG of penalties?

 

// nevermind - I found it in previous post 😅

Edited August 1, 2022 by prysiu

[Rashidi]

Time for me to do some analysis, the defensive actions formula was amended since the last post. I realized I was averaging it wrong. And don't forget you can also use the data hub 
 

Let me explain the spreadsheet really quickly. I have basically split Defensive Actions, Creative Actions and Scoring Actions separately. Far right I have calculated the non penalty xGs for goals. Essentially trying too find out what the goal output is not counting pens.

Defensive Actions =  Clearances per 90, Interceptions/90, Headers/90 and Tackles/90
Creative Actions = Passes/90 divided by Chances Created per 90
Scoring actions are basically the ratio of non pen goals to xG

A player with good defensive actions only is generally playing a defend duty and/ or a role that is not expected to create
A player with good scoring actions and good creative actions could be a scoring threat like a mezzala, inside forward etc. It just says that the player can create chances and score
A player with good creative actions could be a playmaker, fullback that gets up or a winger that creates chances with.

I basically haven't finished this because I also track fouls against with crosses attempted or shots attempted to track players that break tiers, these could be inside forwards or wingers on attack duty or even wingbacks on attack duty, that I normally consider separately to identify different kinds of options.  

For example: I could be looking for a inside forward, so I will look for good scoring actions, plus take ons eg, dribbles/90 and indications that he is drawing plenty of fouls.  Currently I am evaluating strikers who can do a job as inside forwards so I am using this metric within my filters. 

LAST SEASON
We were in the top 3 for quite a while last season but fell away in the final stretch because I became experimental again. I decided to mess around with my setpieces and it tossed me for a curve. Plus I lost sight of some fundamental basics.

Lorenzo Pirola and Saguesten were my standout defenders, however this season even after signing a new defender, I was hesitant to break up my defensive pairing because it was still good. I was too focused on how good Pirola was at winning key tackles. Now when I extracted the full numbers for the season, it painted a different picture.

In terms of defensive actions Sagstuen Andersen was 6.1, the new defender Hernandez was close in numbers to him but Pirola should have never been starting. He was winning fewer headers than the other 2 defenders. And like I mentioned in the last post there is a potential that the Hernandez/Sagstuen partnership could be the strongest partnership we have ever seen. Don't forget the data hub has great tools too.



Pirola's defensive output was decent but nowhere near them. Now returning to my spreadsheet, I am now going to evaluate midfield.

In midfield our holding mid Tarcisio is easily the best choice in terms of defensive performance, flanked by Casadei and Faticanti, who are both good all rounders. Casadei and Faticanti play as Mezzala and BBM in my system, but both need to work hard and win the ball back. Faticanti has defensive actions of around 2.35 and Casadei has even higher numbers which has surprised me. At 2.79, this now poses a problem for us heading into next season.

In terms of training now I need to focus, Raimondi and Dinho along training plans that work on their , anticipation and concentration. We only have Christian Kouan coming off the bench to cover for them. Casadei, Rodriguez and Sagstuen are the oldest players in the starting 11(27,28,26) the rest of the squad is between 18-23

Raimondi has a bit of bad form in the last few games of the season and I plan to give him more game time and use him more consistently, he appears to have a good range of passing. As a RPM he will also be able to train his mental and physical attributes eg. concentration.

Dinho is by far our worst player, while he has great defensive actions, and has played well. 4 games are just too few. He needs to go out on loan.

Amerigo Bova is 23 playing as a left back, Holwerda is 18 and is also a left back. Holwerda has a 60 million transfer value plastered on his head because he is that good, but in terms of performances, Bova is putting better numbers in defensively. The choice is simple. Bova is first choice next season and Holwerda will continue learning from him.

When I look back at my season we were imperious at one point and brittle for almost 2 months. Identifying Pirola as the weak link via stats was eye opening.

[vkastanas]

Hey Daljit, is this a Google Sheet that you can share? Is it in the public folder?

[Rashidi]

Its WIP, and I am a muppet when it comes to excel, but if people want to use it and then improve it by all means, i will link it here, I tried to find a way to avoid the infinity error for a null value, so you might see fields like this IF(AK3=0,"",(H3-K3)/AK3) where AK3 could be a 0 value. The actual calculation is meant to be (H3-K3)/AK3) for example. Or and its not google sheet but excel.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2s6nzaat21har0pjux471/BTN-Moneyball-Master.xlsx?dl=0&rlkey=5d8rcnue85v605e4ih23o9nt7

 

 

[vkastanas]

15 hours ago, Rashidi said:

i will link it here,

Thanks for sharing man!! Much appreciate it...

[Rashidi]

So I've given a bit of an introduction at the top. Now I will walk through the steps. I do play without attributes, though I am not the only one who does this in the community. FMStag is a great source of information for a statistical deep dive into the moneyball side of the game. You can find stuff from him here Player Search Tool - Moneyball, data recruitment etc - FM Stag. I strongly recommend following him and his updates.

 And of course Cult0fFM who has a Moneyball Series on his channel. You can follow his series here. He covers a lot on his series and it should be easy enough for anyone to follow.  I don't claim to be the authority on how to apply a moneyball approach to football manager, and believe me I will make mistakes, but so far i am enjoying this approach so much it really is the first time I am playing an edition of FM from one cycle to the next. What FMstag offers is a search tool you can use, there are slight differences in our approach, but the essence is the same. My goal here is to help you understand the process of how one would apply data analytics to evaluating your squad and performances.  I hope I can make this easy to follow, so if you want more information you can check these sources out. The Cult of FM actually explains why he uses Team Conceded/90 vs Team Goals Scored/90 as well. And its not hard to follow.

Let's get cracking. For any numbers driven approach you will need benchmarks, you will need to set expectations. And you absolutely need to know the context in which you are analyzing that data. When you are evaluating players you want to evaluate players playing at similar levels of competition. When you are looking for additions to your squad, you actually need to have a clear idea of what you want to achieve with your tactic. I will walk you through the process of how I do that, starting with the tactic, then the sources of information I need in the game and finally how I present that information to myself so I can make informed decisions. Numbers don't lie, but its easy to use numbers the wrong way and that can mislead you. So having a realistic approach is important.

This is the tactic and these are the metrics I want to pay attention to when analyzing my squad. In red are the scoring metrics for each group. I covered the metrics earlier and will cover that again in a video that I will link for those of you who prefer listening to my boring voice.

HOW WILL THE TACTIC PLAY

The tactic is meant to be played on normal tempo, but I want to be able to switch between low and fast tempo too. I want to draw teams into the middle where I will press them and tackle them hard through personal instructions I have given the 3 centre mids.

I expect to win the ball in transition, which basically means that I want the opposition attacks breaking down there, the mezzala and the box to box midfielder are expected to feed either the flanks via the fullbacks or find a way to play the ball into dangerous areas.

Occasionally I expect the mezzala to play the ball with the outside of his foot to find the Advanced forward on the right with dangerous passes. The box to box midfielder in some games is expected to arrive late into the box and in other games I expect him to be the sort who will provide extra protection down the flanks.

Naturally the left side of formation could be weaker, so I expect the left central defender to do help that area out with good reading of the game via a solid set of defensive actions. 

In attack I expect to see the fullbacks, the mezzala and the attacking playmaker creating the most chances. The AP(A) will be the focal point of most of my attacks so he is expected to take players on with good dribbling. I do expect him to break the opposition’s defensive midfield tier and sometimes arrive into the box either with or without the ball. This necessitates having good intelligence, on and off the ball. He will also be pitching in with goals as I expect him to be a free striker against certain formations.

The strikeforce could alternate in terms of roles, in some games I may want to change one role to a pressing forward so that we keep one defender occupied, this could lead to him pulling the defender away making space for the AP(A) to score or create even better goal scoring chances. 

I do not expect to be getting most of my assists from crosses, in fact most of them should be coming from through balls.

When I make any tactic I have expectations and with those expectations I will have be doing several things. I will play the game on a highlights mode that allows me to see enough action to determine if things are going to plan. And I will be using statistics to measure the output of my players.

SETTING UP THE SAVE

Before jumping in on how you can assess your squad we need to first set up our save properly. The game uses two match engines, the quick match engine and the full match engine. The QME is used in view only leagues and the FME is used in playable leagues. So its important for consistency that you extract data from playable leagues only.

That's really the only requirement, if you want a stats driven game. 

ASSESSING YOUR SQUAD

When you are playing without attributes there are only a few pieces of information you can use to assess your squad

1. Height
2. Ass Man assessment of current ability
3. Ass Man assessment of current ability in selected role
4. Ass Man opinion of this players style
5. Scouts opinion of this players main strength
6. Scouts opinion of this players main weakness
7. Average Rating
8. Last 5 games
9. Playing Time
10. Appearances
11. Game Win Ratio
12. Team Conceded per 90
13. Team Scored per 90
14. Player of the Match
15. Assists 
16. Goals
17. xG

I use these in a view like this to give me an instant understanding of my team. On my streams you probably have seen more information, but this is the very basic information I go for

Each player also has detailed coach reports that are very helpful. The coach report also contains pros and con and an assessment of his CA/PA.

When you start the game and if you play without attributes, your only source of information will be the data that comes from your staff, and you will need to depend on their assessments before match data starts coming in. There is plenty of information there already that can be a suitable starting point for anyone seeking to play without attributes.

Once the season is underway you will start collating the information within your views and you will start making assessments. To do that you will also need to look at the data hub because not all the data can be displayed in a view. 

 One of the most important I feel is possession lost and gained/90minutes. 

This is the possession gained and lost per game, and is accessed through the scattergroups for team data. You can also access these for players via the players search options. Unfortunately it doesn’t come as a filter in views, which is a real bummer.

Another scattergroup which I like to refer to is the advanced goalkeeping numbers that measure how good your keeper is vs the rest of the league at expected goals prevented.

Why have I listed these sources of information? The moneyball approach usually works as a great starting point before you dive deeper into the numbers.  These are all going to be my sources of information before I launch any further.

So I’ve set my expectations with the tactic, discussed why I will let the assistant manager and coaches play such a big part in influencing my decisions on who should play.(Because I am playing without attributes) Ultimately my decisions will rest on the little information I can gather from their coach and scout reports. At least until they have played around 5 games. That's when the fun starts. But before then I need to depend on the Assessment view I use game to game.

Let me explain why I have chosen to display it like that.

Height - Who doesn't want to know height?
Scouts assessment of style - Quick way to have some kind of indication of where the attributes fall
Ass Man assessment of CA - This acts as a way for me to tell what his overall attribute level is. 
Ass Man assessment of this players CA in the selected role - this helps to guide me when I have opted to play someone in a role completely unsuited to him. (SI's algorithm isn't half bad)
Scouts opinions of pros and cons - Frankly speaking there are NO attributes, I do not some quick warning on the players weaknesses. I usually go to the coach reports to get more detail and then map out an appropriate training schedule. And yes I have a specific way of training and no I don't use anything but my One Training Schedule to Rule Them All. Its balanced and it works. I will cover training in more detail later. Or you can catch the youtube video which I will link here later, when its up, which it isn't.
Average Rating - Nuff said
Last 5 games - Haven't you heard of streaks, players hitting a vein of form. If a players last 5 games is > than Av Rating, he is on fire!
Playing Time - To prove to the whole world -- Look I ignored every players unhappiness levels, some I dumped into the reserves, we did it "live" see no unhappy people, well there is one, but he doesn't count. He failed to deliver consistently, his name is Tripledelli, only the viewers of my stream get the running joke.
Appearances 

And the rest is what I pay attention to, GWIN, TCON/90,TGLS/90, POM, Assists Goals.  This is the data I pay attention to when I am playing games.  I am looking to ascertain which players add more to my attacks. Some players have notoriously bad team game winning ratios, like Alessio Holwerda, when compared to Raffaele Celia. This is stuff I should be paying attention to, but I wasn't doing that. This lesson I learnt came from hindsight. In future I promise to pay attention to this page when I am playing the game.



Now its time for the  the moneyball data view.  This is the view I use to export all my data to spreadsheet. I hate FM, its made me use an excel spreadsheet for a game again! This view probably has too much information and is still very much a work in progress. I have plans to use it to identify high performing wingers and inside forwards as well, but until I come up with a metric for them, I wont be sharing it just yet.

You might be wondering why do I have total crosses showing? Its not necessary right? Well the game does not differentiate between a cross from a corner and some set pieces which could be classed as corners. So whenever I see high key passes/90 there is a chance that he could be taking a lot of set pieces

In a later post I will dig deeper into the numbers. Its time my squad did an end of season analysis. That will be the focus of the next update and along with that,  training and my search for a striker who is versatile.
 

[DementedHammer]

Sorry to hijack this thread slightly, but the below image has made me wonder whether a skin exists that has background colours on the attributes, like below, but no attribute numbers displayed? (So, you'd see coloured rectangles next to the attribute, and know the attribute was in a certain range, but wouldn't know the exact attribute value.)

I think that would be a really interesting middle ground between having all of the attributes available, and having none at all.  I'd definitely be interested in playing in such a middle ground.

Edited August 3, 2022 by DementedHammer

[Guest]

4 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

Sorry to hijack this thread slightly, but the below image has made me wonder whether a skin exists that has background colours on the attributes, like below, but no attribute numbers displayed? (So, you'd see coloured rectangles next to the attribute, and know the attribute was in a certain range, but wouldn't know the exact attribute value.)

I think that would be a really interesting middle ground between having all of the attributes available, and having none at all.  I'd definitely be interested in playing in such a middle ground.

There are more than one...for instance this is Flut skin with attributes hidden.

[Rashidi]

Search for an INSIDE FORWARD/STRIKER


Now we're on the hunt for more options upfront. So far this season we have done ok. I've had seasons where my striker banged in 100 goals a season, which frankly is nothing on Football Manager. Playing the game via stats makes it a bit more challenging and I do appreciate the effort it takes.

My spreadsheets are evolving, and the calculations keep changing. My metric for the IF includes me tracking like how many times they get fouled per 90mins. Its usually an indication that he has some skill on the ball, and is willing to take on players. Other metrics included in the IF metric include Dribbles/90, Non Pen Goals vs Non XG Goals.  Naturally I like my teams defending from the front, so I compiled all the defensive actions into its own metric. Once again mine could be different from others, but so far my conclusions from last season have borne themselves out.

As a team we concede far too many goals, we score a lot too, but its a rock and roll kind of football. Entertaining, but I want to control more games and have the option to dial it up. To do that we sometimes need to attack teams from wider positions and drag them out. The 4312 has been fantastic and so to has the Box system we are using, but I do so like Inside forwards attacking the centre with a blind run running through the middle. We have the players to pull it off. Last season we had an IF called Facchin who gave us that magic. He was on loan.

This season we need to strengthen our side so I filtered out any player with an average rating of less than 7, he must have played at least 5 games. He needed to have an XG/Goals ratio of 1, which basically means if he scored 1 goal he had an xG of 1. At least he meets expectations. We also wanted someone who could take on defences and find the cross/pass.

In my scoring system I have a
Striking Score which is basically the Non Pen Goal vs Non Pen XG
Creative Score which measures things like CHC C/90 vs Pass Completed /90
Defensive Score Defensive actions per 90

I also created a metric for IF and Wingers, different people may want different things so I doubt sharing this would be of any use.  I am still testing this but I reckon I have most of these spot on.

I have filtered everyone by my IF Metric. I really want someone who can give me options either out wide as an IF or play as another striker. 

The top 4 targets will be scouted
Zuluga appears to play more a supporting PF which explains his low scoring output
Zapata looks decent, but 20 appearances with that goal output probably another support player
Neither of them appear to be tackled as much as I'd like

Navarro and Leones look interesting, more appear to be better options for getting goals and they have a bit of creativity in them. Along with the two below them all 5 of the options after the first to create between 0.38-0.5 chances a game. Leones and Konta are interesting. Konta's scout report says that he sometimes doesn't go into challenge, which indicates low bravery. There is no mention of pace. He has consistency, strength, stamina and agility. His personality is sporting. There is a player further down the list my scouts are keen on Gabriel Pignataro. They have given him an A rating, I have made an offer for him. However I could cancel the offer.  

We need someone to start, not someone who could be ready in 2 seasons. Pignataro has the advantage of having Italian as a 2nd nationality. At 4 million he could be a second signing. 

We have already signed a central defender, unfortunately than was based on the previous spreadsheet where there was an error in one of the defensive actions metrics. It shouldn't be too big of a problem, since we really only signed him so we could send him out on loan again. Imagine his shock. Nevermind we have some sicilians who can convince him to take my offer.