Trusting the Process - Collectivism, Rotations & Control

[RPM_01]

Really interesting thread. Like others I thought I had to give this a try to see the combinations and style of play. When it worked, it worked really well but consistency seemed to be a fairly big issue. 

Few questions from me -

• I had to drop the back line as there were so many balls over the top, did you experience that at all? How did you combat it?
• The pressing - did it work the way you wanted? Again on more often it meant they, at times, could play around me very easily but on much more often it felt like they were headless chickens at times, especially the CB's running out leaving lots of space.
• Did you find at times games drifting by? How did you try force the issue at times? 
• I found, especially away from home, the width in attack left the pitch very open for counters. I tried adjusting by forcing them outside, which didn't really have the effect I wanted. I also tried narrowing width in attack, which helped with that transition but then felt really hindered in a fluid system. Did you experience that at all?

[AlexandreMCD]

Amazing thread. Thank you for sharing the thoughts behind your playing style with us. I'm new to the forums and enjoyed a lot reading your older topics, despite how much FM has evolved ever since.
Once again, thank you very much. 

[khodder]

13 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

I had to drop the back line as there were so many balls over the top, did you experience that at all? How did you combat it?

Not the OP. But I've found post winter patch this is more prevalent across all systems that press really high without great traps higher up.

It might be something that we need to rethink on this patch.

[skyline72]

On 24/03/2022 at 02:01, themadsheep2001 said:

Here's how I setup, there are some PIs involved as well. I have my right fullback playing as a 3rd centre back, who only advances occasionally up the pitch if the winger is already highly advanced and committed and there is free space. Must not have gets forward at all times/hugs touchline PPMs, and give them sits narrower. If you really want to limit them, you can teach them stays back at all times PPM but my RB sits back enough to frequently create a 3-2-5 shape

3 - CBs + RB

2 - Central mids

5 - everyone else

Im assuming

Timber sit narrower

Lindelof stay wider

Mbappe stay wider, roam

Sancho stay wider, roam

Bruno roam

Haaland roam

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, skyline72 said:

Im assuming

Timber sit narrower

Lindelof stay wider

Mbappe stay wider, roam

Sancho stay wider, roam

Bruno roam

Haaland roam

Mbappe hasn't got wider as he sits in-between Davies and Bellingham (who has gone back to a box to box role), but pretty much. Davies has a couple of tweaks that make him a cross between a full back and wing back, the RCB is just a central defender. Bellingham sometimes makes it a 3-1-6 which is fun to watch

[skyline72]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Mbappe hasn't got wider as he sits in-between Davies and Bellingham (who has gone back to a box to box role), but pretty much. Davies has a couple of tweaks that make him a cross between a full back and wing back, the RCB is just a central defender. Bellingham sometimes makes it a 3-1-6 which is fun to watch

How is your results and stats? I suppose you are in 2nd or 3rd season with Man Utd? The starting squad is so ******, im having a hard time with Man Utd. Lol.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

How is your results and stats? I suppose you are in 2nd or 3rd season with Man Utd? The starting squad is so ******, im having a hard time with Man Utd. Lol.

Sell up front, buy in installments. I brought in Bennacer and Bissouma first season, along with Pavard and Musiala (no idea why Bayern allowed a deal tbh)

Won the treble first season , though seriously rode my luck at times. 

On course for a league and champions cup double. Liverpool knocked me out of the Fa Cup :(. 

Results are very good, still unbeaten and 7 points ahead of a rampant Liverpool, who are a nightmare to play against. Reinvented the back line after the first season (goodbye Maguire) and I've conceded 9(?) goals in 30 games in the league. I'll screen some stats this evening

[skyline72]

50 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Sell up front, buy in installments. I brought in Bennacer and Bissouma first season, along with Pavard and Musiala (no idea why Bayern allowed a deal tbh)

Won the treble first season , though seriously rode my luck at times. 

On course for a league and champions cup double. Liverpool knocked me out of the Fa Cup :(. 

Results are very good, still unbeaten and 7 points ahead of a rampant Liverpool, who are a nightmare to play against. Reinvented the back line after the first season (goodbye Maguire) and I've conceded 9(?) goals in 30 games in the league. I'll screen some stats this evening

Yea, Liverpool is a pita to play against. 

Bennacer is a good and value buy at probably 20m.

[Sarriball14]

With opposition instructions can anyone confirm whether you need to set them each game or if you set them up under positions this will enforce them each game?

[Chapman7]

6 hours ago, Sarriball14 said:

With opposition instructions can anyone confirm whether you need to set them each game or if you set them up under positions this will enforce them each game?

Longs done in the tactic screen it will be saved as default for each game 

[pepalves7]

Just another brilliant post @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! 

On my save with FC Porto, i set up one 4-2-3-1 similar. When i have results i put the same here.

[BrickCommo23]

On 23/03/2022 at 18:03, themadsheep2001 said:

I have two sets

This is what I initially started with

 

But this is what I am currently using

 

Coupled with my defensive instructions the aim, is to pressure playing out the back across the back line to either turn it over, or force a long kick. I've gone with the second one to increase how often I pick off the hurried kick.

Along with the quick tempo, it means I score a lot of goals against disorganised defences

This is really helpful, thank you. I have been really intrigued by pressing triggers but a little scared to try it. So, for now, I am going to shamelessly copy! Thanks

[BrickCommo23]

 

On 23/03/2022 at 18:03, themadsheep2001 said:

I have two sets

This is what I initially started with

 

But this is what I am currently using

 

Coupled with my defensive instructions the aim, is to pressure playing out the back across the back line to either turn it over, or force a long kick. I've gone with the second one to increase how often I pick off the hurried kick.

Along with the quick tempo, it means I score a lot of goals against disorganised defences

Sorry - ignore me, noticed the L and R in the icon.

Post can be deleted...

Edited March 26, 2022 by BrickCommo23

[skyline72]

On 24/03/2022 at 02:03, themadsheep2001 said:

I have two sets

This is what I initially started with

 

But this is what I am currently using

 

Coupled with my defensive instructions the aim, is to pressure playing out the back across the back line to either turn it over, or force a long kick. I've gone with the second one to increase how often I pick off the hurried kick.

Along with the quick tempo, it means I score a lot of goals against disorganised defences

Do you have to set it every game? I cant find the option to "auto" set them every game though. 

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Do you have to set it every game? I cant find the option to "auto" set them every game though. 

I don't have to set them up each game but I have to activate it. Hard to explain. When I get home I'll do some screenshots

[skyline72]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I don't have to set them up each game but I have to activate it. Hard to explain. When I get home I'll do some screenshots

Right, im talking about the activation. Cant seem to find any option that activates it every game.

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, skyline72 said:

Right, im talking about the activation. Cant seem to find any option that activates it every game.

It's the blue position tab. But there's no auto activation as far as I'm aware. Something I'm going to flag as a request

[Clifton]

Can anyone help with how to activate the OIs?   Can't find a way to do it for a game.

[Cam NBH]

Just set them under position and save the tactic, works for me.

[skyline72]

3 hours ago, Clifton said:

Can anyone help with how to activate the OIs?   Can't find a way to do it for a game.

At the team selection page, click on opposition tab and click on the blue button.

[skyline72]

2 hours ago, Cam NBH said:

Just set them under position and save the tactic, works for me.

Yes, we set them under position already but you got to 'activate' it every match. 

[Cam NBH]

9 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Yes, we set them under position already but you got to 'activate' it every match. 

It works fine for me, I dont have to do any activating, strange.

[skyline72]

19 minutes ago, Cam NBH said:

It works fine for me, I dont have to do any activating, strange.

You mean when you start every match, the OIs are there already?

Because if we dont 'activate' it, there will be no OI at all.

[Cam NBH]

14 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

You mean when you start every match, the OIs are there already?

Because if we dont 'activate' it, there will be no OI at all.

I set my OIs once in my tactic screen under position then save the tactic. Every time I go into a match the OIs are already set.

 

See here about 6m in

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Cam NBH

[skyline72]

44 minutes ago, Cam NBH said:

I set my OIs once in my tactic screen under position then save the tactic. Every time I go into a match the OIs are already set.

 

See here about 6m in

 

 

 

 

Thats weird, I already set it in my tactics page, under positions and save it but got to 'activate' it every match.

[Cam NBH]

When you say "activate" do you mean you select the blue option to view it instead of the green one next to each opposition player?

 

Rashidi  has covered this in another thread a short while ago:

 

Thats not how it currently works in the game. By default when you go to matchday, the screen you see for OIs is showing you specific player OIs, if you click that icon it will change to specific position OI.  You need to select the the little icon and shift select the whole group, it will then show you each and every player that has been given OIs.  Do a search on the forums, I have explained it many times and I even did a video explaining it. Its a bit of a UI annoyance that I wish SI would address, because it naturally leads people to think its not 'activated' when it actually is.
 

     

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Cam NBH

[AndersAas]

On 15/03/2022 at 22:57, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

 

 

The Future 4-3-3?

Some fantastic Arsenal-related tactical content has come online recently, particularly about Arteta's continued evolution toward 4-3-3. Thought it might be interesting to share.

• Rohan's Deeper Dive into Arteta's long-term system
• Ball Over Passion: 4-2-3-1 versus 4-3-3
• Modern Football Analyst: How Arteta's Arsenal is becoming an absolute force

The positional rotations from 4-3-3 into the 2-3-5 (or 3-2-5) remain the main topic of contention as illustrated here by @EricLaurie.

Personally, I think Emile Smith-Rowe attacking from a deeper role suits his attribute profile wonderfully given that we would have Tomiyasu behind him.

Recent form of Thomas Partey is starting to turn this into a potential reality.

Really opens up can of worms on the role of a full-back in this type of system, but I think that's another topic for another day 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Thank you for reading. Enjoy! 

What PIs do you use in this setup @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!?

I would guess:

Sit narrower and hold position on the RB? 

Move into channels and get furher forward on the RCM?

High and wide on the IWs?

Roam on the F9?

[Christopher S]

On 25/03/2022 at 11:30, themadsheep2001 said:

Mbappe hasn't got wider as he sits in-between Davies and Bellingham (who has gone back to a box to box role), but pretty much. Davies has a couple of tweaks that make him a cross between a full back and wing back, the RCB is just a central defender. Bellingham sometimes makes it a 3-1-6 which is fun to watch

What kind of tweaks are you referring to for Davies? I'm quite curious, as a cross between a wing back and full back is something I've always wanted to make. 

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

What kind of tweaks are you referring to for Davies? I'm quite curious, as a cross between a wing back and full back is something I've always wanted to make. 

Full back attack with Stay wider, runs wide and dribble more

[soablacksmith]

Thank you. These Ö-zil topics are my favourite.

I'll be returning to my Schalke 04 save by adjusting the tactic a little bit with the inspiration from this topic. 

After returning to Bundesliga and tried to maintain our position here, finally we have won in a cup final against Bayern. Let's see if this topic can get me to win even a Bundesliga title over them.

[khodder]

On 28/03/2022 at 01:26, Cam NBH said:

It works fine for me, I dont have to do any activating, strange.

 

On 28/03/2022 at 02:46, Cam NBH said:

When you say "activate" do you mean you select the blue option to view it instead of the green one next to each opposition player?

 

Rashidi  has covered this in another thread a short while ago:

 

Thats not how it currently works in the game. By default when you go to matchday, the screen you see for OIs is showing you specific player OIs, if you click that icon it will change to specific position OI.  You need to select the the little icon and shift select the whole group, it will then show you each and every player that has been given OIs.  Do a search on the forums, I have explained it many times and I even did a video explaining it. Its a bit of a UI annoyance that I wish SI would address, because it naturally leads people to think its not 'activated' when it actually is.
 

     

 

 

 

If it were this simple why do my OI's not show up in the pre-match screen when the Green Player Icon is showing, but they do show up in the pre-match screen when I have selected the Blue "Position" Icon? Is this just another OI issue or is it point more to something under the hood not being activated pre-match?

I can also visually tell the difference in my pressing and traps when I forget to do this. 

[Cam NBH]

14 hours ago, khodder said:

 

If it were this simple why do my OI's not show up in the pre-match screen when the Green Player Icon is showing, but they do show up in the pre-match screen when I have selected the Blue "Position" Icon? Is this just another OI issue or is it point more to something under the hood not being activated pre-match?

I can also visually tell the difference in my pressing and traps when I forget to do this. 

 

Its written in the rashidi post....

[Louisking1992]

This is quality mate, really good stuff 

[kalongtongan]

On 27/03/2022 at 21:59, Cam NBH said:

I set my OIs once in my tactic screen under position then save the tactic. Every time I go into a match the OIs are already set.

I still don't understand what you mean. what I usually do about oi, first I set oi per position then before the match at the time of pre-match I go to the tactic go to oi section, select all players including substitute players then select the blue icon which means position instructions. but when the opponent makes a substitution then I have to go to my tactics then go to the oi section and confirm, then it is automatic that the incoming substitute will be marked as oi position. next match i just repeat start from pre-match again. So do you mean i don't have to do that routine if i save my tactic?

[Cam NBH]

1 hour ago, kalongtongan said:

I still don't understand what you mean. what I usually do about oi, first I set oi per position then before the match at the time of pre-match I go to the tactic go to oi section, select all players including substitute players then select the blue icon which means position instructions. but when the opponent makes a substitution then I have to go to my tactics then go to the oi section and confirm, then it is automatic that the incoming substitute will be marked as oi position. next match i just repeat start from pre-match again. So do you mean i don't have to do that routine if i save my tactic?

Yeah, I am not sure I am really following you either I am afraid. This is what I do, I am not sure how to explain it differently so I have gone step by step. If it still isnt clear I would suggest watching Rashidi's vid again and re-reading his post.

 

Before a match, in the tactics section, under "position" in the opposition instructions tab, I select all of the blue icons for each opposition player, the green ones are completely ignored. I then set the oi I want, e.g trigger press all CBs, man mark FBs etc. Once this is done I then save my tactic. I only have to do this once, see the video from rashidi that I already linked where he explains this and also shows him actually doing it.

 

Then when I go into my next match, I can go into opposition instructions, again switch to the blue icons, again ignoring the green ones and it should already have the very same instructions I have previously set (trigger press CBs, man mark FBs etc). This means I dont need to do anything as they are already set.

 

 

 

[kalongtongan]

@Cam NBHthat's the routine I do when using oi, haha. Sorry I'm still learning English, and this forum really helps me, regards.

Edited April 15, 2022 by kalongtongan

[Cam NBH]

12 minutes ago, kalongtongan said:

@Cam NBHthat's the routine I do when using oi, haha. Sorry I'm still learning English, and this forum really helps me, regards.

 

No worries! Your english is great and I am glad its clear.

 

All the best

[Miquel]

I think a lot of us would love a video starting a save and walking us through all the aspects you consider important during pre-season (assessing the team, signing staff members, creating the tactics, setting up squad views, setting up training,  how many leagues you load, etc.)

Also I would like to know your opinion on the website guidetofm.com. Do you ever use it?

 

I can't stop playing FM2018 since your CAIXA post. I find the new versions too slow, too many things to consider.

I am an absolute fan. You should have a patreon.

 

 

[Luizinho]

Any update on the 4-3-3 @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!? 

I've been trying to settle on an attacking shape that works best for my Barcelona's squad, following 'most' of your principles in this thread. I'm mainly focused on creating a 5x5 shape in attack, with essentially 5 'behind' the ball and 5 'ahead' of it.

This is what I have so far:

 

It created the following shape in a recent game against Malaga (Munsah playing as a CM (S) with hold position instead of DLP (S)):

 

 

So far I've been romping the league. Just lost my unbeaten record last game, thanks to a 0-1 loss to Sevilla via a penalty. In the UCL I somehow just got knocked out by Bayern. Just outplayed them but they ruthlessly put away all three of their chances in the first leg (sensitive subject currently) 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Luizinho

[JoOSTAR]

16 minutes ago, Luizinho said:

Any update on the 4-3-3 @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!? 

I've been trying to settle on an attacking shape that works best for Barcelona squad, followed by 'most' of your principles in this thread. I'm mainly focused on creating a 5x5 shape in attack, with essentially 5 'behind' the ball and 5 'ahead' of it.

This is what I have so far:

 

It created the following shape in a recent game against Malaga:

*IMAGE PENDING*

So far I've been romping the league. Just lost my unbeaten record last game, thanks to a 0-1 loss to Sevilla via a penalty. In the UCL I somehow just got knocked out by Bayern. Outplayed them but they ruthlessly put away all three of their only chances in the first leg 

 

You played the whole season with that tactic?

 

Any specific player instructions used?

[Luizinho]

23 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

You played the whole season with that tactic?

 

Any specific player instructions used?

Yeah - I tweak for specific games and when I use different players.

I try to use as little player instructions as possible. Ask the IW (S) to hold the width on the right and IF (S) to sit narrower on the left amongst others.

[eddygodwin]

Very interesting thread with the 3-2-5 shape and so far I'm liking how my team played this season. The inverted wingback (d) depending on the situation would make the tactic into a 3-2-5 or 2-3-5.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by eddygodwin

[Luizinho]

3 hours ago, eddygodwin said:

Very interesting thread with the 3-2-5 shape and so far I'm liking how my team played this season. The inverted wingback (d) depending on the situation would make the tactic into a 3-2-5 or 2-3-5.

Is there any specific scenarios where you'd go for a 3-2-5 over a 2-3-5?

I guess it give greater protection to counter attacks but you lose the numerical advantage in the midfield...

Just keen to understand the logic. Ive thought about looking into a 'back three' as an attacking shape, to free up Frenkie De Jong into a more creative role at DMC - either a DLP (S) or Regista (S)

Edited April 26, 2022 by Luizinho

[eddygodwin]

3 hours ago, Luizinho said:

Is there any specific scenarios where you'd go for a 3-2-5 over a 2-3-5?

I guess it give greater protection to counter attacks but you lose the numerical advantage in the midfield...

Yeh i get what you mean but you would do still get a numerical advantage when attacking the final 3rd and like you said better protection and can change depending on the opposition + easier passing option/passing angle when getting pressed imo.

 

[martfish_03]

Top stuff once again @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!! 

How would you go about working toward this style of play at a mid/lower-mid table side? If this were the end goal, tactically, what would be an appropriate start point? Knock mentality down to positive, lower tempo, more disciplined?

Obviously squad building and club development play a huge role here too, but interested on how you would approach a save with say a Brighton or a Villa, with an eye to evolving tactics to something like you have implemented here?

Cheers.

[MadOnion]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! how did the integration of Felix, de ligt and de Jong go? I hope you weren't put off by some of the comments on here to carry on with the save.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Apologies for the lack of responses; back in remote East Africa with work and haven't had much time to touch the game in months. I do intend to respond to people's posts when I get time. Thank you as always for your kind words 

In case anyone's interested, Arsenal challenge on the Athletic.

https://theathletic.com/podcast/237-the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/

Win the league or Champions League with six players from the academy. Must have started at the club (eg. so no Martinelli). Nice timing - as the world goes transfer crazy - to remember the talent we have at the club!

[OYTNANAK]

Mr. Ponta, what skin are you using for FM22?

[levo in da house]

hi bros,

it has been very good with a little improvement.

[awesomeveekthor]

On 23/03/2022 at 19:03, themadsheep2001 said:

I have two sets

This is what I initially started with

 

But this is what I am currently using

 

Coupled with my defensive instructions the aim, is to pressure playing out the back across the back line to either turn it over, or force a long kick. I've gone with the second one to increase how often I pick off the hurried kick.

Along with the quick tempo, it means I score a lot of goals against disorganised defences

Bro, if i use TI “Use tighter marking”, is it okay with this pressing structure, or i should remove all the “Tight mark” in the OI