something wrong wih the transfer market

[Vernum]

they are interested in aubamayang for 60 million with a 200k salary. not that I would sell him for real though since hes my best scorer.

[forameuss]

28 minutes ago, Vernum said:

they are interested in aubamayang for 60 million with a 200k salary. not that I would sell him for real though since hes my best scorer.

What's Ozil on?  And who are "they" in this case?  Do they already have players in Ozil's position?  Less options than where Aubameyang plays?  I've always seen players as having four different "values".  The one you see on the screen -  which is largely cosmetic - the one you place on your player, the one a buyer places on him, and the magic middle-ground between the latter two.  Those values will then be adjusted (for the buyer at least) by how important they believe the player to be.  They may be much more interested in splashing a huge amount on a forward when he would improve what they have, than a playmaker in an area they're already strong in.  I doubt it's a particularly complex sum behind the scenes, but there will be a lot of variables.

Again, all "logic" that may or may not mesh with what the game is doing behind the scenes.  SI will be the only ones that know for sure.

[themadsheep2001]

57 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Ooft, someone's had their jimmy's rustled.  If you want to be more accurate, I said that if you're stuck on those criteria, you'll likely not get as much of a challenge as opening it up.  But still, if you're wanting to get seething about something, I'd completely make up the content of a post in a completely different thread too 

I didn't say it was necessarily right, but it's far from illogical.  Teams in FM are controlled by the AI, and probably doing far more rudimentary sums than any team in real life would.  It'll essentially boil down to those two things - can I afford him, do I want him - and if either of those aren't true, they wouldn't bid.  Obviously.  So whether it's right or not, that's the logic.

he's also not accurate either about Ozil real life, because clubs were not all over him at all when his contract was winding down. Partly because he wanted a 350k a week deal. 

[Vernum]

ozil has double the salary of aubameyang but all that was just to test the logic behind transfer. And to me it doesn't look like there is one nobody is interested at 2m but a bunch are at 1 it doesnt look like tobe for financial reason for some and like someone else said earlier even if a club cant pay the wage they could at least try to ask me to help pay a portion of the contract and maybe let him go at the end of the contract if they really cant afford.

anyway back to playing fm and ignore this issue until the next version hoping this improves.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, Vernum said:

ozil has double the salary of aubameyang but all that was just to test the logic behind transfer. And to me it doesn't look like there is one nobody is interested at 2m but a bunch are at 1 it doesnt look like tobe for financial reason for some and like someone else said earlier even if a club cant pay the wage they could at least try to ask me to help pay a portion of the contract and maybe let him go at the end of the contract if they really cant afford.

anyway back to playing fm and ignore this issue until the next version hoping this improves.

double the wages, so what, 400k a week? that's more in a month than the entire transfer fee. How long is Ozil's contract compared to Aubameyang's?

[Vernum]

moved time forward a bit after that and ozil ended snubbing the team when it was time to sign contract so maybe they really didnt have the money for his wage, tried a 2nd time with one of the other team interested same thing happened. Still wondering why nobody is asking for help in paying the wage then.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Vernum said:

moved time forward a bit after that and ozil ended snubbing the team when it was time to sign contract so maybe they really didnt have the money for his wage, tried a 2nd time with one of the other team interested same thing happened. Still wondering why nobody is asking for help in paying the wage then.

Did you transfer list him?

[Vernum]

yes i think i set that to automatically transfer list the first time i send a club offer.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Vernum said:

yes i think i set that to automatically transfer list the first time i send a club offer.

Clubs are usually a lot more keen to ask for wage contributions for a transfer listed player as it's then clear you're looking to get rid of the player. I can only assume that his wage is that high that it's just too much they'll need to pay while still asking for something reasonable.

[Vernum]

I see i probably didnt leave him long enough on the transfer list after my first transfer offer for that kind of offer to appear.

Anyway i fixed my problem by offering myself 51k in wage contribution in the transfer offer and surprisingly got 73m as transfer fee instead of the original 1m with no wage contribution.

[Jorgen]

I've just read a bit of this conversation about demand and supply. I understand that if there are lots of players in the db and just a handful of clubs in active leagues, there is low demand and high supply. But would this just also always mean that it has no real use to have a big/huge db to scout from, as demand always will be low and supply always high? You can buy easily in this scenario, but selling will always be hard. Would'nt it be better to connect the transfer engine / selling-and-buying-AI not only to the amount of clubs in active leagues, but also to the amount of clubs or leagues with at least a minimum amount of players and/or at least a minimum club or league reputation? This should prevent an unbalance of demand and supply and make sure that there is always enough demand for the supply. No to little, not to much.

Problems could of course be how to specify the amount of needed players for a team or league to be active on the transfer market and if this number is fixed at the beginning of the game, or can evolve during the game. It would be stupid to buy a few players from a club, to get them under the minimum amount of players and thus stopping them beging active on the transfermarket. It could be fixed by some kind of algorithm that looks at the number of continental teams, high reputation teams, etc when setting up the database size.

Perhaps a bit like this:

Total amount of players is 60.000
Total amount of teams in active leagues is 200

Each team has now 300 players for them alone. This would make prices low.

If the algorithm adds "transferability" to extra teams, the balance between demand and supply could be more even.

Like add transferability for

* all teams in view only leagues for ..x.. % (does not have to be 100 % transfer activity. Could be 1/3rd, or 25%, etc)
* all teams in unselected leagues with minimal 25 players at the start of the game, or all leagues with minimal 200 players at the start of the game
* teams with minimal reputation would have x % transferability too
* teams or leagues with a historic connection to the active leagues / teams would have x % transferability
* all teams with players loaded from the specific db settings should be taking in account for some % of transferability, when having the minimum amount of players / reputation
* etc

[..Valhalla..]

On ‎19‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 15:56, sporadicsmiles said:

Do not be afraid to make a player unhappy by rejecting a bid, since they almost always get over it by the end of the transfer window. Unless, of course, their contract is running out and you feel the unhappiness may prevent a new contract.

 

You ruined the game for me.

I've just sold Firmino towards the end of the window because I figured I couldn't deal with his unhappiness the rest of the season. Never thought about it this way 

[zlatanera]

8 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

id, 

You ruined the game for me.

I've just sold Firmino towards the end of the window because I figured I couldn't deal with his unhappiness the rest of the season. Never thought about it this way 

Sometimes they stay unhappy for a bit longer than that - i.e. if they come to talk to you about a team being interested in November, rather than an actual bid, I've seen them be unhappy all the way through until next August / September. What you also need to look at is if their performances drop off due to unhappiness - some players do, and those are the ones I'd get rid of, whereas some players keep playing just as well as before. 

[sporadicsmiles]

On 17/07/2018 at 04:02, ..Valhalla.. said:

 

You ruined the game for me.

I've just sold Firmino towards the end of the window because I figured I couldn't deal with his unhappiness the rest of the season. Never thought about it this way 

Sorry! I will try to make it better by saying that things like not selling unhappy players is actually a managers preference rather than a rule. Some people in real life would rather sell a player they fell out with than keep him and try to bring him back in the squad. Or you can decide if a player wants to leave, you are better off without him since he clearly is not playing for the badge. I do generally find players get over not being sold quite quickly after a transfer window where you did not sell them (unless you promised to and did not, that is entirely different). Not always though.

I hope you managed to find a super regen to replace him with!

[..Valhalla..]

@sporadicsmiles - I started a new game anyway (not connected to the Firmino affair). I'll just bare in mind what you said in future

[scass]

On 18/06/2018 at 16:43, Neil Brock said:

Just to clarify, what valid point has he made exactly? 

That it's hard to sell players. 

 

I've stayed off this forum because that post - which was just an opinion - got me a post that started patronisingly "Let me break it down for you a bit", followed by a post that began "I will not escalate" the proceeded to indulge in some personal abuse that some people only come on to complain.  Plus another from Nacaw which was also unhelpful in its town. You are always courteous personally, but There's not much point in expressing opinions if all you get is ganging up by fans of the game who don't want the game to be criticised.

 

[scass]

On 19/06/2018 at 16:21, HUNT3R said:

Then don't post. My posts all refer to context as being key. You dismiss everything. We can't do more then.

 

On 19/06/2018 at 16:21, HUNT3R said:

Then don't post. My posts all refer to context as being key. You dismiss everything. We can't do more then.

Then don't post. You're an awful moderator if that's your response. I didn't dismiss everything. This forum really is just for the uncritical.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, scass said:

That it's hard to sell players. 

I've stayed off this forum because that post - which was just an opinion - got me a post that started patronisingly "Let me break it down for you a bit", followed by a post that began "I will not escalate" the proceeded to indulge in some personal abuse that some people only come on to complain.  Plus another from Nacaw which was also unhelpful in its town. You are always courteous personally, but There's not much point in expressing opinions if all you get is ganging up by fans of the game who don't want the game to be criticised.

 

If you're staying off a forum because someone gave you probably one of the more detailed and informative responses to your question, then the problem lies in your court to be honest.  Maybe lighten up a bit.  And giving the usual cry of "you're not allowed to be criiiiiiitical" doesn't help.

[scass]

29 minutes ago, forameuss said:

If you're staying off a forum because someone gave you probably one of the more detailed and informative responses to your question, then the problem lies in your court to be honest.  Maybe lighten up a bit.  And giving the usual cry of "you're not allowed to be criiiiiiitical" doesn't help.

Mods - I fail to understand why this user is permitted to constantly attack anyone who steps out of line. I complained about the tone which I felt was patronising, but here you are yet again, bickering. You have done nothing by attack me.

[forameuss]

And there we go, proving it once again.  If you've got a problem with the post, there's a report button I urge you to use.  I've done plenty more than "attack" you, given that I don't even really know who you are.  Don't flatter yourself that I have some kind of agenda against you just because you threw a strop at someone for having the temerity to actually explain something to you.

And for the avoidance of doubt - as I keep saying - I disagree with the things I disagree with.  Absolutely everyone is entitled to their opinion, just like everyone is entitled to voice their disagreement with said opinion.

[HUNT3R]

Okay, stop the bickering.

 

@scass, don't be so quick to dismiss everything immediately. Sporadicsmiles made a great post which was instantly dismissed as being patronising. Rather look at the points made by him and others and if you disagree, just give counter points? Just dismissing everything so quickly without consideration will get people to feel like they're wasting their time. If you have proper examples, like the Man Utd 100k one, then give them. Or submit a bug report (Neil did ask for your save). With specifics, we can have a decent discussion! It's like I said, a 100k for a league 1 club is a lot. It's a lot less for a club like Man Utd, so that changes things considerably.

[jaysdailydose]

I'm really wondering why we're digging up months old threads just to fight, anyway...  I know I was a bit shocked seeing that this was a post from June, being necro'ed to essentially attack the moderators.

Nothing here bothered you for nearly three months, I'm going to wager that you can take it down a notch and take something productive from this thread... if not, I'm sure the moderators will be happy to close a months old thread.

[XaW]

5 hours ago, scass said:

That it's hard to sell players. 

Well, it can be hard, but there are several thing you can do to make it easier. After all, if you don't want the player why would anyone else want him? There are several things you need to think about regarding selling players:

• Teams will only bid for players if they have an actual chance of buying the player
  • This means that any purchasing club needs to have the transfer funds AND the wage funds
  • They also need the player to be interested in joining and not all players are willing to drop down levels or to poorer clubs
• Why are you selling a player?
  • Is he not good enough? If so, is he good enough for similar/better teams who are potential buyers?
  • You need/want money? If so, the other teams might not be willing to pay his expected fee.
  • The player want to leave? If so, are there any clubs who need a player in his position that might buy him?
• Are the market too saturated with players?
  • This might happen if you have too large a database compared to the active leagues.
  • Maybe there are too many players available in the current position, or all potential buyers already have brought in players in the players position.

These are just some things that came to mind. I'm not too fond of using anecdotal evidence, but I haven't had much issue in my various games. Here is a screenshot from my old Liverpool game as an example:

Not that this might happen for everyone, but it goes to show that it's possible to sell unwanted players. 

[..Valhalla..]

All things considered, this is clearly a problem that has been going on for years and years in FM. The transfer market has always been sluggish, many times impossible, often baffling and totally nonsensical. Sure, plenty of people have no problem selling players by using various techniques/tricks/exploits (yes, exploits) to offload them. But this is unrealistic.

The reality is that players should be easy to sell. ANY player should attract interest, especially if they are being practically given away (I hate that that is never truly addressed - a free player would have hundreds of offers from clubs all over the world, NO EXCUSE). The usual line of defence here is "but if you're GIVING them away then they mustn't be very good so why would teams even bother showing interest?" but come on! Even constantly injured players, trouble makers, wasters... are easy to move on IRL, countless teams out there are always willing to take a punt on a player. I often wonder why on Earth "they bough HIM" when asshole player A gets another big contract at yet another club.

I found FM17 to be pretty good for selling players, about as easy as it has ever been. So FM18 added the new dynamics system; another layer of nonsense to fight through just to sell players. It's almost as if SI are trying so hard to prevent unrealistic events from happening to avoid criticism (eg, something like Ronaldo moving to Liverpool), so the market is made extremely difficult and based more on CA, reputation, favoured clubs etc rather than genuine need/demand, and player performance.

It's not a good system, and for the only genuine game in the genre... it's bloody awful.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

All things considered, this is clearly a problem that has been going on for years and years in FM. The transfer market has always been sluggish, many times impossible, often baffling and totally nonsensical. Sure, plenty of people have no problem selling players by using various techniques/tricks/exploits (yes, exploits) to offload them. But this is unrealistic.

The reality is that players should be easy to sell. ANY player should attract interest, especially if they are being practically given away (I hate that that is never truly addressed - a free player would have hundreds of offers from clubs all over the world, NO EXCUSE). The usual line of defence here is "but if you're GIVING them away then they mustn't be very good so why would teams even bother showing interest?" but come on! Even constantly injured players, trouble makers, wasters... are easy to move on IRL, countless teams out there are always willing to take a punt on a player. I often wonder why on Earth "they bough HIM" when asshole player A gets another big contract at yet another club.

I found FM17 to be pretty good for selling players, about as easy as it has ever been. So FM18 added the new dynamics system; another layer of nonsense to fight through just to sell players. It's almost as if SI are trying so hard to prevent unrealistic events from happening to avoid criticism (eg, something like Ronaldo moving to Liverpool), so the market is made extremely difficult and based more on CA, reputation, favoured clubs etc rather than genuine need/demand, and player performance.

It's not a good system, and for the only genuine game in the genre... it's bloody awful.

Are you ignoring what's been posted on purpose? There's almost always a reason for not being able to sell someone. It isn't difficult to sell players in general, but it depends on a lot of things, including leagues loaded, player's interest, clubs' needs and money available, the available prospects, how much the player in question is being paid, his interest in the clubs interested in him etc. It's the 2nd most complicated module in FM, next to the ME itself, so it should be dismissed is being awful. 

[XaW]

31 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

All things considered, this is clearly a problem that has been going on for years and years in FM. The transfer market has always been sluggish, many times impossible, often baffling and totally nonsensical. Sure, plenty of people have no problem selling players by using various techniques/tricks/exploits (yes, exploits) to offload them. But this is unrealistic.

The reality is that players should be easy to sell. ANY player should attract interest, especially if they are being practically given away (I hate that that is never truly addressed - a free player would have hundreds of offers from clubs all over the world, NO EXCUSE). The usual line of defence here is "but if you're GIVING them away then they mustn't be very good so why would teams even bother showing interest?" but come on! Even constantly injured players, trouble makers, wasters... are easy to move on IRL, countless teams out there are always willing to take a punt on a player. I often wonder why on Earth "they bough HIM" when asshole player A gets another big contract at yet another club.

I found FM17 to be pretty good for selling players, about as easy as it has ever been. So FM18 added the new dynamics system; another layer of nonsense to fight through just to sell players. It's almost as if SI are trying so hard to prevent unrealistic events from happening to avoid criticism (eg, something like Ronaldo moving to Liverpool), so the market is made extremely difficult and based more on CA, reputation, favoured clubs etc rather than genuine need/demand, and player performance.

It's not a good system, and for the only genuine game in the genre... it's bloody awful.

Well, I've not used any exploit in my above post (that you simply skipped over without any comment, I might add). I've only offered players out, or in some cases negotiated when other teams have offered for players I originally weren't thinking of selling. Like with Lovren whom I look at as an ok, rotation player. When Leicester came in with a bid of £27M, then I tried to up it and I succeeded. However, I would be interested to know what kind of selling exploits exists since I haven't heard of any before, so please enlighten me.

[jaysdailydose]

I also don't know of any exploit for selling players... unless playing with a small database is an exploit, then I'm guilty.

[..Valhalla..]

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Are you ignoring what's been posted on purpose? There's almost always a reason for not being able to sell someone. It isn't difficult to sell players in general, but it depends on a lot of things, including leagues loaded, player's interest, clubs' needs and money available, the available prospects, how much the player in question is being paid, his interest in the clubs interested in him etc. It's the 2nd most complicated module in FM, next to the ME itself, so it should be dismissed is being awful. 

 

Saying it was awful was quite literally the last thing I said. That's hardly dismissing it, is it?  
If I simply posted "the transfer market is awful, end of..." you could say I'm dismissing it. 

Buying players isn't so bad (and I can usually get my target/s), but selling players is an issue. Always has been, and given that there has now been 14 iterations of FM, soon to be 15, probably always will be. These threads keep popping up, with the same arguments time and again. The same detractors, the same defenders... but people aren't imagining it. Selling players is a problem - not impossible, but much more of a chore than it should be after a decade and a half of work on it (and more if you include the experience from CM). You offer a damned good quality player out for FREE and get no interest whatsoever... that alone is awful. Would not happen IRL. Totally unrealistic.

 

3 hours ago, XaW said:

Well, I've not used any exploit in my above post (that you simply skipped over without any comment, I might add). I've only offered players out, or in some cases negotiated when other teams have offered for players I originally weren't thinking of selling. Like with Lovren whom I look at as an ok, rotation player. When Leicester came in with a bid of £27M, then I tried to up it and I succeeded. However, I would be interested to know what kind of selling exploits exists since I haven't heard of any before, so please enlighten me.

I didn't skip over your post, I didn't see it. I was just adding to the thread after reading the first couple of pages and getting frustrated as I've heard it all before and, as I said above, it's the same detractors and the same defenders year after year after year after year... the transfer market in FM isn't right. It's never been right. There are too many instances of players being totally unable to sell, no matter what, and I have lost count of the number of times I've let a player's contract run down and released him on a free after trying to sell/give away time and again. I'm currently suffering that right now with an "elite midfielder" (who I won't name), who is a full international, on decent wages admittedly (£160k a week), and who has wanted to leave for 2 years now, I have promised him I will sell him, I have offered him out FOR FREE endlessly despite a £25m+ valuation (contract running out), with not once receiving an offer from anyone. He now totally opposes me like I can bloody help it  

He plays CM, but is also accomplished at CB, DM, AMC and RB. He's classed as "elite" with a model professional personality so hardly rubbish, and £160k a week in 2022 is not big money for most big clubs who would surely take him for free no? It's insane. 3 transfer windows now and not a single offer. This happens time and again, I am always releasing good to top quality players who I cannot sell/give away. 

Yes exploit was perhaps too strong a word and sounds like "cheating", that's not what I meant (apologies), but the lengths you have to go to sometimes, the massive faff about... it should be so much easier. 

@jaysdailydose - the last sentence.

[jaysdailydose]

@..Valhalla.. no worries, I had no thought that you were thinking I "cheat" -- sorry to imply that.

I wonder... have you offered to pay any of the players wages?  I sell players all the time, picking up part of their wages... it is almost always why a lower club won't buy your players.  I think very few players negotiate paying wages into their offers, and it is really helpful for those "deadwood" players and selling them.  You obviously have to be cautious with it, but I carry very little deadwood -- and most importantly, I think it is realistic how I am able to let my players progress their careers, even if it isn't with me!  

I'll be real honest, I never knew there was a problem at all, and this thread was strange to me.  I never have any issues selling players.

I bet you if you offer that player out paying half his wages, he sells.  No one is going to pay him 160k/w, that's why he won't move.  Give it a try with that player, and see what happens.  (Of course, if you've done this, and still nothing, then I'd probably report to the bugs forum.)

[..Valhalla..]

@jaysdailydose - the player in question, when he initially wanted to move away, was far from dead wood. He is classed as an "elite midfielder", and has outstanding attributes as well as a perfect personality; model professional.

As you already know, I have no interest in foreigners in my Liverpool team, and he learned quite quickly he had no place in my team, thus he wanted to move. This was nearly 2 years ago, and I have tried in vain to give him away and not once has there been any interest in 3 windows. He now hates me, but my hands are tied because sometimes it is impossible to even give players away.

This isn't an isolated incident either; no matter who I manage, I always end up releasing players on a free because it just isn't worth the hassle. I regularly accept offers for players I don't really want to sell, just because I miss selling players and it's kinda liberating  

I sold Marco Verratti at a £55m loss to the club in 2 seasons out of sheer frustration. He was valued at £80m+, was easily one of the best midfielders in the game, but clubs were offering less than half his value non-negotiable. Yeah I wanted to sell him so they had "the power", but non-negotiable? I have scouted him since out of curiosity and his club would expect between £140m and £180m for him. 

[jaysdailydose]

6 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@jaysdailydose - the player in question, when he initially wanted to move away, was far from dead wood. He is classed as an "elite midfielder", and has outstanding attributes as well as a perfect personality; model professional.

As you already know, I have no interest in foreigners in my Liverpool team, and he learned quite quickly he had no place in my team, thus he wanted to move. This was nearly 2 years ago, and I have tried in vain to give him away and not once has there been any interest in 3 windows. He now hates me, but my hands are tied because sometimes it is impossible to even give players away.

This isn't an isolated incident either; no matter who I manage, I always end up releasing players on a free because it just isn't worth the hassle. I regularly accept offers for players I don't really want to sell, just because I miss selling players and it's kinda liberating  

I sold Marco Verratti at a £55m loss to the club in 2 seasons out of sheer frustration. He was valued at £80m+, was easily one of the best midfielders in the game, but clubs were offering less than half his value non-negotiable. Yeah I wanted to sell him so they had "the power", but non-negotiable? I have scouted him since out of curiosity and his club would expect between £140m and £180m for him. 

What is your database and league setup, I'm very curious?

[..Valhalla..]

England (all leagues), France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Spain (top 2 of each). Large database.

[jaysdailydose]

I think that's the difference, I play on small database.  I've currently got England, The Netherlands, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, and China to their lowest and Spain to the second tier, and I've got a vibrant and fun transfer market.  Consistently have players that have their release clauses met, etc...

I really think it is the best way to play, but I'm only one person, and everyone is different.  It would definitely keep me from seeing your problem, though, as my market is certainly not over-saturated. 

[..Valhalla..]

@jaysdailydose - this is almost certainly my last save on Fm18 (8 days game time logged so far, I'm heavily committed to my team), but once FM19 comes out I'll see how it goes with a multitude of leagues on a small database. If the transfer market is better I'll have no qualms about retracting what I've said. I don't want to be negative about the game, but you know... the transfer market really annoys me :/ 

[jaysdailydose]

4 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@jaysdailydose - this is almost certainly my last save on Fm18 (8 days game time logged so far, I'm heavily committed to my team), but once FM19 comes out I'll see how it goes with a multitude of leagues on a small database. If the transfer market is better I'll have no qualms about retracting what I've said. I don't want to be negative about the game, but you know... the transfer market really annoys me :/ 

Switch to a small database.  I did it around FM15 and haven't looked back.  Less players = more activity for those in the game.   

I completely understand, although even with buying FM19, I'd be fine starting another save -- in fact, I'm contemplating it to do a stream where I stream every single minute of the save, and then also break it down to Youtube videos.  

(I'm also insane, and disabled so I don't work... so I have time for nonsense of this sort.)  

 

[HUNT3R]

7 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

Saying it was awful was quite literally the last thing I said. That's hardly dismissing it, is it?  
If I simply posted "the transfer market is awful, end of..." you could say I'm dismissing it. 

Buying players isn't so bad (and I can usually get my target/s), but selling players is an issue. Always has been, and given that there has now been 14 iterations of FM, soon to be 15, probably always will be. These threads keep popping up, with the same arguments time and again. The same detractors, the same defenders... but people aren't imagining it. Selling players is a problem - not impossible, but much more of a chore than it should be after a decade and a half of work on it (and more if you include the experience from CM). You offer a damned good quality player out for FREE and get no interest whatsoever... that alone is awful. Would not happen IRL. Totally unrealistic.

The transfer fee might be 0, but there's still player wages. That alone can put clubs off. In my own save, my club doesn't have the money to pay more than 100k per week (I think the highest paid player is on 80k) so that rules out almost any decent player from England and most from the bigger clubs like PSG, Madrid etc. So in that case, whether they're free or not, 1) I can't afford the wages and 2) if I was dumb enough to buy a player on those wages (double my highest earner) then everyone else (with the same squad status certainly) at my club will want similar contracts.

There's also the problem of whether the player is interested in the clubs who are interested in him. And whether the clubs who are interested, can't maybe find a better deal elsewhere. The latter is where database size plays a role, especially at the start of a save.

And as I've said, I almost never have a problem getting rid of players. I have every league loaded though and combine that with the fact that my players aren't on very high wages, there's plenty of interest if I do decide to move someone on. In some cases (had one last night) even though the player was only on 35k a week, I still had to accept offers where I contribute 9k a week toward his wages but I wanted to get rid and received 4 offers for a player I don't even want anymore.

I'm not going to pretend FM and real life doesn't have differences when it comes to the transfer market, but buying and selling isn't a problem in most cases. Try the smaller database. I am sure you'll be surprised.

 

[XaW]

8 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

I didn't skip over your post, I didn't see it. I was just adding to the thread after reading the first couple of pages and getting frustrated as I've heard it all before and, as I said above, it's the same detractors and the same defenders year after year after year after year... the transfer market in FM isn't right. It's never been right. There are too many instances of players being totally unable to sell, no matter what, and I have lost count of the number of times I've let a player's contract run down and released him on a free after trying to sell/give away time and again. I'm currently suffering that right now with an "elite midfielder" (who I won't name), who is a full international, on decent wages admittedly (£160k a week), and who has wanted to leave for 2 years now, I have promised him I will sell him, I have offered him out FOR FREE endlessly despite a £25m+ valuation (contract running out), with not once receiving an offer from anyone. He now totally opposes me like I can bloody help it  

He plays CM, but is also accomplished at CB, DM, AMC and RB. He's classed as "elite" with a model professional personality so hardly rubbish, and £160k a week in 2022 is not big money for most big clubs who would surely take him for free no? It's insane. 3 transfer windows now and not a single offer. This happens time and again, I am always releasing good to top quality players who I cannot sell/give away. 

Yes exploit was perhaps too strong a word and sounds like "cheating", that's not what I meant (apologies), but the lengths you have to go to sometimes, the massive faff about... it should be so much easier. 

While I agree the transfer market in FM can improve, I still don't think it's as bad as some in this thread make it out to be. My main problem with the transfer market is that the AI managers don't seem to have any plan behind their purchases. I don't mean like City or PSG earlier vacuuming up all players around with a hint of talent, but many teams buy players who are not nearly good enough (and haven't even been playing well!) while huge talents go unnoticed. Very rarely does players who year in and out do well in lower tiers get picked up by bigger teams to give them a chance at a higher level as in real life (Vardy, Lallana and Deeney as examples), but I digress.

To be fair, other players similar to your examples have gone for free at the end of their contract. Milner as the prime example of a player who could have been sold by City earlier. I wonder, if you would offer him out while paying quite a lot of his wages if there would be any takers?

[rdbayly]

There are one or two nuggets of truth tucked away in the OP and those that agree with it; however, this thread was derailed when some decent, eloquently put forward explanations were completely ignored by them. In my opinion there is something fishy about the transfer market in terms of its consistency. There have been multiple examples in both of my long-term saves where AI teams have picked up players for way less than I was demanded to pay, even after lengthy negotiations.

I even stopped a save recently and added a manager to Man City to look at how a deal was structured for a wonderkid they stole from under me. They paid a full £10m less than I could have possibly got him for, and there were no issues in terms of my relationship with the selling club or manager. What compounds this is that I've never personally seen it happen in reverse. 

  

[HUNT3R]

23 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I even stopped a save recently and added a manager to Man City to look at how a deal was structured for a wonderkid they stole from under me. They paid a full £10m less than I could have possibly got him for, and there were no issues in terms of my relationship with the selling club or manager. What compounds this is that I've never personally seen it happen in reverse. 

A case like this would be very useful to report in the bugs forum with a save from before the bids were made. If anything is fishy, SI would be able to see it under the hood or at the very least, you'd get an explanation for what happened.

[..Valhalla..]

And now I have 2 players who want to leave the club but I can't get rid of. Andy Robertson (value £44.5m, wages £175k p/w) has slipped out of contention due to me aggressively developing/favouring youth and he wants to leave. Fair enough, I promise to sell him...
He was a key player at the start of that contract, hence the apparently high wages - but not exactly ludicrous for a Champions League and 3-time Premier league winning full back.

He's 28yrs old. In his PRIME. Outstanding attributes. He just doesn't stand a chance at my club because I will not keep a youngster out of the team for him. How do I sell him? I've offered him out for £20m as well as paying £75k a week for a year and a half, nobody even remotely interested. Christ it's like trying to pull my own teeth out.

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

And now I have 2 players who want to leave the club but I can't get rid of. Andy Robertson (value £44.5m, wages £175k p/w) has slipped out of contention due to me aggressively developing/favouring youth and he wants to leave. Fair enough, I promise to sell him...
He was a key player at the start of that contract, hence the apparently high wages - but not exactly ludicrous for a Champions League and 3-time Premier league winning full back.

He's 28yrs old. In his PRIME. Outstanding attributes. He just doesn't stand a chance at my club because I will not keep a youngster out of the team for him. How do I sell him? I've offered him out for £20m as well as paying £75k a week for a year and a half, nobody even remotely interested. Christ it's like trying to pull my own teeth out.

Is the transfer window open? Are there any comparable (reputation-wise) clubs who seem to need a left back and who have spent little money lately?

[..Valhalla..]

Just now, XaW said:

Is the transfer window open? Are there any comparable (reputation-wise) clubs who seem to need a left back and who have spent little money lately?

Yes. I don't know.

This is the same problem I always have - player wants to leave, and I will spend the next year or two making and breaking promises to him until his contract runs out and he finally leaves for free.

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

Yes. I don't know.

This is the same problem I always have - player wants to leave, and I will spend the next year or two making and breaking promises to him until his contract runs out and he finally leaves for free.

See, that's potentially the issue. If no clubs have a need for a left back, why would they bid for him? Would you buy a decent winger if you had 2 superstars and 2 up and coming wonderkids as backups? Of course not. Since your team is obviously a good team (I'll assume Liverpool since it's Robertson) the player won't leave for a very poor team. And he is worth a lot of money and would demand a high paycheck. Let's break down potential clubs without looking at squads:

In England you have Man City, Arsenal, Man Utd, Tottenham and Chelsea as the biggest teams. Maybe the player would go to Everton, or other teams just below the "biggest". Man Utd and Everton are out of the question due to rivalry. The other are plausable, but only if they need him. Rangers most likely couldn't afford him even if he wanted to go there. Spain? Italy? France? Not many Scots in those leagues. So the possible teams are few and far between as far as I can tell. Maybe if Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal or Tottenham are in need of a decent left back, but then they might have all the left backs they need or have other more pressing issues they are focusing on?

Have you transfer listed him? Or told him to get his agent to offer him out if there are no bids?

[..Valhalla..]

@XaW - I know all that, but none of it changes the fact this ALWAYS happens.  I'm always stuck with players I can't sell.

He wants to leave. 
He is listed.
He is being offered out for silly cheap.
Nobody cares.

I'm not necessarily talking about Robertson there. 

[XaW]

11 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@XaW - I know all that, but none of it changes the fact this ALWAYS happens.  I'm always stuck with players I can't sell.

He wants to leave. 
He is listed.
He is being offered out for silly cheap.
Nobody cares.

I'm not necessarily talking about Robertson there. 

Well, it doesn't happen to me, but both your and mine are only anecdotal evidence without much merit.

I'm not proclaiming it doesn't happen since I don't have all evidence, but you seem convinced this is something that happens all the time. But it doesn't, that the one thing I can prove.

I also tried to offer solutions for you and explanations as to why YOUR example happened the way it did, but you refuse to try to solve it, or at least not answering questions or trying solutions. At this point there's not much anyone here can do for you, you are locked into your position and have barricaded down.

If you would like to continue to try to figure out how and why it happens in your game, I'll be more than happy to try to help you. I've even seen SI take savegames and explain what happens under the hood in situations like this to , and if you ask nicely they might even do it here.

[..Valhalla..]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

but you refuse to try to solve it

I'm not refusing. The January transfer window has been open a week now, Robertson has been listed since November, the "elite midfielder" for 18 months, neither have had a single offer or even a team interested despite countless attempts at offering them out cheaper and cheaper until it's quite frankly stupid. My attitude to it is born more out of frustration at knowing exactly how this is going to go because it has been the same since FM05... you can't suddenly expect me to believe I've been imagining this scenario for 14 years of real world time. I've seen it countless times in every iteration of FM...

[Nacaw]

8 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

I'm not refusing. The January transfer window has been open a week now, Robertson has been listed since November, the "elite midfielder" for 18 months, neither have had a single offer or even a team interested despite countless attempts at offering them out cheaper and cheaper until it's quite frankly stupid. My attitude to it is born more out of frustration at knowing exactly how this is going to go because it has been the same since FM05... you can't suddenly expect me to believe I've been imagining this scenario for 14 years of real world time. I've seen it countless times in every iteration of FM...

You are in a bad situation, one you can't possibly win. You've simply developed your squad too quickly  The golden rule in FM is to sell and make room before you buy or promote. Sell while your asset holds the most value and gathers the most interest, even if it means loaning out a 5 star youngster for a year, or rotating in the 17 yo kid before he is ready. 

The players in your example, despite wanting to leave, will only leave for certain clubs. You've spoiled them with titles, and their rep increase has been massive. The clubs they want to join seem to have 0 interest. This is possibly compounded by you never playing him. Lots of clubs would want a world-class player on a free with 75k wages p/w. But their scouts have told them this player isn't interested, so they don't even bother bidding. Free agents sometimes get stuck like this and retire, because there is a mismatch between their demands and the financial power of the clubs who are interested in signing them. Certain players, like yours, should probably drop their wage demands and club reputation demands further, in order to play. Especially as a model professional, instead he's acting like Jack Rodwell 

[scass]

On 27/08/2018 at 17:15, XaW said:

Well, it can be hard, but there are several thing you can do to make it easier. After all, if you don't want the player why would anyone else want him? There are several things you need to think about regarding selling players:

• Teams will only bid for players if they have an actual chance of buying the player
  • This means that any purchasing club needs to have the transfer funds AND the wage funds
  • They also need the player to be interested in joining and not all players are willing to drop down levels or to poorer clubs
• Why are you selling a player?
  • Is he not good enough? If so, is he good enough for similar/better teams who are potential buyers?
  • You need/want money? If so, the other teams might not be willing to pay his expected fee.
  • The player want to leave? If so, are there any clubs who need a player in his position that might buy him?
• Are the market too saturated with players?
  • This might happen if you have too large a database compared to the active leagues.
  • Maybe there are too many players available in the current position, or all potential buyers already have brought in players in the players position.

These are just some things that came to mind. I'm not too fond of using anecdotal evidence, but I haven't had much issue in my various games. Here is a screenshot from my old Liverpool game as an example:

Not that this might happen for everyone, but it goes to show that it's possible to sell unwanted players. 

I think you're talking a lot of sense, though my problems have been with highly rated players, often with a "Wnt" icon.  I want to sell them because I want to bring promising young players through, and because the squad os becoming top heavy with players who are likely to pass their peak at the same time.

I'm aware of the drawbacks of anecdotal evidence, but let me give you one I have just experienced. Anthony Martial at the age of 28 asked to leave "for new challenges". He had been good, but not essential. No-one wanted to buy him, even at a knockdown price.  And even with my offering to pay a percentage of his wages.

Eventually he went to Fiorentina on loan. Became the top scorer in Series A. Returned to club after loan. No-one wanted to buy him. Eventually, as an experiment, I reduced his fee drastically. And then I reduced it again, and again, to ridiculous levels.  Even at 10k no-one wanted to buy him.  

Eventually, a Chinese club bought him 20million on the last day of the transfer window. I've also sold a DM ("buy him whatever the cost" because the other players "weren't connecting with him". The team were still winning games but it was like watching a pub team.  Rated at 50+m. Sold for 10m. I didn't mind because at that time I had a huge transfer pot - I don't actually like buying loads of players.  I want to play the game based on backing my judgements, rather than buying every wonderkid on the block.

[XaW]

7 hours ago, scass said:

I think you're talking a lot of sense, though my problems have been with highly rated players, often with a "Wnt" icon.  I want to sell them because I want to bring promising young players through, and because the squad os becoming top heavy with players who are likely to pass their peak at the same time.

I'm aware of the drawbacks of anecdotal evidence, but let me give you one I have just experienced. Anthony Martial at the age of 28 asked to leave "for new challenges". He had been good, but not essential. No-one wanted to buy him, even at a knockdown price.  And even with my offering to pay a percentage of his wages.

Eventually he went to Fiorentina on loan. Became the top scorer in Series A. Returned to club after loan. No-one wanted to buy him. Eventually, as an experiment, I reduced his fee drastically. And then I reduced it again, and again, to ridiculous levels.  Even at 10k no-one wanted to buy him.  

Eventually, a Chinese club bought him 20million on the last day of the transfer window. I've also sold a DM ("buy him whatever the cost" because the other players "weren't connecting with him". The team were still winning games but it was like watching a pub team.  Rated at 50+m. Sold for 10m. I didn't mind because at that time I had a huge transfer pot - I don't actually like buying loads of players.  I want to play the game based on backing my judgements, rather than buying every wonderkid on the block.

If you still have a game from that time, I wonder what would happen if you had offered him out and payed quite a lot of his wages? I think a lot of clubs would be more willing to sign him if they didn't have to pay all the wages he has. Since he was at his prime age and playing for Man Utd (I'm guessing?) he would have had quite the pay check. Not many other teams are capable of paying similar wages.

I'll describe my usual method of getting rid of players I don't have use for. And I'll take Origi as an example from the screenshot above. He had been out on loan, but I didn't think he would be of much use, so I hope to cash in.

1. I tried to offer him out for a high price (I would have accepted a lot lower) WITHOUT "transfer list and set to not wanted". Just to get a feel of the market. Now, no bids, but a few teams in the "interest" column.
2. I played him in a game or two, and brought him on as a sub.
3. Offered him out again at a bit lower price, still not transfer listing him. No bids.
4. I suddenly got asked by the press if I were interest in selling him, and I confirmed that he is available for the right price.
5. I got a lowball bid from Inter that I negotiated up quite a bit. The withdrew.
6. Offered him out again at an even lower price, not transfer listing. This time I got bids. After some more negotiations, he went to Inter for £28M.

So that is how I got quite the sum for him. I use this method for most players, though I don't always succeed. However, I always start a lot above what I would actually accept to start negotiations at a higher level.