14.3 - Corners

[stevemc]

I set mine back to "near post" last night, and I seemed to start getting better results.

[deathspawn666]

Near post is working for me, my DC just keeps doing header without anyony marking him

[RTHerringbone]

Yep, if anything near post is still too effective on corners, and it stands out because the default Attacking Corner set ups tend to put one DC to Attack Near Post, one to Attack Far Post.

Thankfully though, the overall number of goals from corners is (for me) not excessive any more.

[stevemc]

Thankfully though, the overall number of goals from corners is (for me) not excessive any more.

I agree, near post still seems the best option, but they have toned it down, which is a good thing. No longer is this an exploit.

[Ackter]

Thanks to the zonal marking, a well-placed long shotter just outside the box can net you a few goals from the 2nd ball.

[stevemc]

I take it that's from a "near post" corner?

[Ackter]

From any corner that's zonal marked.

[thomit]

I have corners set to "mixed", default att. corner routine except for 1 player "challenging keeper" and 1 player lurking. I get most goals from the CD told to attack far post. That's usually Mertesacker - and granted, he's very tall and very good header, but still ...

This after the patch too, mind.

[jac4121993]

I've noticed a few things with corners on this patch that I haven't noticed before. I have corners set to "Near Post" (relevant because of what my players sometimes do). Due to the static-ness of the opposition defenders on the 6 yard box, I've noticed that some of my players (the ones set to simply Go Forward) sometimes move towards the 6 yard box then drop off to the edge of the area just before the ball comes in. None of the defenders seem to go with them, and my corner taker occasionally deviates from the set instructions to slide the ball to the unmarked man on the edge of the box. Scored once or twice from this so far. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Jimbokav1971]

Really not impressed with this.

Really really really really not impressed with corners at all. :thdn:

It doesn't matter why we can't replicate this.

It doesn't matter that it's not very effective.

What matters is that you have simply put sticking plaster on what is a long-term problem, and if anything you have made things worse.

How can your solution to whatever problem it was that you were trying to fix be, "let's have every single AI team go zonal marking at set-pieces"?, without human managers able to do the same thing? Seriously? Who came up with that? I wouldn't mind, (actually I would and indeed do), but what exactly has it achieved? Who signs off on this sort of stuff? "Yeah, that's a great idea!"

I didn't concede too many corners before.

I didn't score too many goals from corners before.

So what exactly has this done? What is it's purpose?

I notice that when I first brought this up on the feedback thread it was either missed or ignored and despite many SI bods posting regularly, they all miraculously missed this or just declined to comment.

[Edit]

I don't expect perfection, but this latest patch is way below SI's own standards for last patches. There were things wrong before, but I don't expect you to just make things easier so that all the muppets will stop complaining because they are winning now. Well this muppet quite liked that the game was harder before. Now I feel like I am just going to win the whole time.

Really not sure I can be bothered playing on after this.

ps. Nope. Still haven't seen a penalty miss the target yet.

[llama3]

Jimbokav -

• It is a UI bug, that was not in the update testing until very late in the day - it is a minor bug, and fixing it so late would have put back the release, delayed work on FM15, especially in view that fixes can cause coding knock-on's down the road. It is first on the list for FM15 fixes, frankly it is not important for FM15. The game does not set out to cheat you, why would SI do that to paying customers? It is nonsense. There is an FM14 feedback thread for your constructive criticism - do not derail this thread with your ranting.
  
• First day of the season I earned a 0-0 draw with Aston Villa at home, because Wojciech Szczesny saved Benteke's penalty - first penalty awarded - saved. It does happen, granted it is already acknowledged about the high conversion rate, but the award rate is low, so the total amount of penalties scored is accurate to real life.

[Jimbokav1971]

Jimbokav -

• It is a UI bug, that was not in the update testing until very late in the day - it is a minor bug, and fixing it so late would have put back the release, delayed work on FM15, especially in view that fixes can cause coding knock-on's down the road. It is first on the list for FM15 fixes, frankly it is not important for FM15. The game does not set out to cheat you, why would SI do that to paying customers? It is nonsense. There is an FM14 feedback thread for your constructive criticism - do not derail this thread with your ranting.
  
• First day of the season I earned a 0-0 draw with Aston Villa at home, because Wojciech Szczesny saved Benteke's penalty - first penalty awarded - saved. It does happen, granted it is already acknowledged about the high conversion rate, but the award rate is low, so the total amount of penalties scored is accurate to real life.
  

Apologies. I didn't realise this thread was in T&T. I was linked to it from GQ, (in fact from the very thread you mention). (Where my comment mentioning this was simply ignored by the powers at be).

1. I don't agree that it's a very minor bug. In many ways it is far from minor. A. Every single team defends this way, (rather than just those who wish to defend zonally). B. We are unable to defend in this way whether we wish to or not. There is no variation, no option. It's just a default setting created to appease those who complained the loudest and longest on the forums. before there was variation. Now there is just this.

The comment about it being a sticking plaster on a long-term problem was because they have done this in an attempt to fix the number of goals scored from corners for... oh about a decade now. They seemingly haven't fixed that problem at all and instead have just created some new one's.

I never suggested that the game is cheating me. I don't know where you get that from. Yet I am ranting? I thought I was offering feedback.

2. I never suggested that penalties are not saved. I suggested that they are never missed. If a penalty misses the target, is it missed? It's certainly not saved.

I'll pop off back to GQ now where I thought I was posting. When I didn't get a response after however many pages it was and someone else asked the same question they were linked in here for a response.

[Edit2]

I don't agree RTH, but I have no wish to derail a thread in T&TGF more than I have already done so, so apologies again.

[RTHerringbone]

Jimbokav, this issue has nothing to do with any perfunctory attempt to fix the number of goals scored from corners.

The previous update had too many goals from corners, which 14.3 addressed by changing corner delivery direction and trajectory, and the strength and direction of clearances.

This zonal marking hangover was not a fix aimed at massaging the stats, but was just human error in leaving a Set Piece Creator template set up wrong.

Goals from corners on 14.3 are actually below real life:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/386143-Football-Manager-2014-Update-14.3.0-Winter-Transfer-Update-FEEDBACK-THREAD?p=9467220&viewfull=1#post9467220

How could this be an intentional "sticking plaster", if the goals conceded by human users from corners is not greater than those conceded by the AI?

If you read the views of other users elsewhere in this thread, there is a common consensus that goals scored have reduced for human and AI, as have goals conceded. There is balance.

Yes, it is unfortunate that we can't use this zonal marking, but it is not the reason for the goals from corners being lower.

[stevemc]

I'm noticed a drastic reduction in conceded corner goals this weekend, since I started to leave 3/4 players on "go forward" and "edge of area". I even scored on a counter attack break.

Seems the opposition don't commit as many men up for the corner that way, making it easier to clear.

[Soldatino]

I concede many goals by a header on first post. What could I do to counter it?

My set up is, 2 players on posts, 4 players (best headers and markers) man mark, 2 go back, 1 at the edge of area and 1 forward.

[stevemc]

I concede many goals by a header on first post. What could I do to counter it?

My set up is, 2 players on posts, 4 players (best headers and markers) man mark, 2 go back, 1 at the edge of area and 1 forward.

Read my post above... ^^^

[stevemc]

Right, these corners are doing my head in now, constantly conceding goals to that crap "near post" glancing header that the opposition does time after time.

How can you reduce it??

[wkdsoul]

Have both CBs on mark the six yard box, and cover the far post twice.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/share-download-fm-14-tactics/524873d1394483551-attacking-corners-14-3-untitled.png

[stevemc]

Have both CBs on mark the six yard box, and cover the far post twice.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/share-download-fm-14-tactics/524873d1394483551-attacking-corners-14-3-untitled.png

You can only have one CB on mark 6 yard box...

[wkdsoul]

Theres a work aorund.. hang on i'll find the link

Read this thread.. you'll see what to do, there are more instructions than the OP inthe posts.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/114475-how-add-corner-exploit-fm13.html

[stevemc]

Now the question most of you will be asking is: How do I set multiple players to lurk?

Go to "Player Instructions" on the "Tactics" tab and click "Show Instructions".

Click on the player you want to lurk, move him to CENTER DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD.

Tick the box saying "attacking corner" and click Lurk Outside Area on attacking corners.

Drag him back to his original position and change him back to his original role (Complete forward, poacher etc.)

That ^^ Doesn't work. Only lets you "swap" with the other player who is lurking...?

Besides which, I just want to put out the opposition scoring that crap "near post" flick in goal from corners...

[wkdsoul]

That why i said read all the pages.

ignore the move player stuff.

In players instructions,

select player 1, tick def corners select mark near post, untick.

select player 2, tick def corners, select mark near post, now go back to player 1 and tick box.

both are now mark near post. you can untick both, and then select a 3rd, etc..

means you have more control over defensive work. I have th3 wingers on the post, with my LB CB CB on six yard box, and RB closing down. Midfield go back.

Done. Hope it helps.

[Mark.]

That why i said read all the pages.

ignore the move player stuff.

In players instructions,

select player 1, tick def corners select mark near post, untick.

select player 2, tick def corners, select mark near post, now go back to player 1 and tick box.

both are now mark near post. you can untick both, and then select a 3rd, etc..

means you have more control over defensive work. I have th3 wingers on the post, with my LB CB CB on six yard box, and RB closing down. Midfield go back.

Done. Hope it helps.

Very interesting. Looking forward to testing this out.

Edit: Thanks as well!

[StewG]

That why i said read all the pages.

ignore the move player stuff.

In players instructions,

select player 1, tick def corners select mark near post, untick.

select player 2, tick def corners, select mark near post, now go back to player 1 and tick box.

both are now mark near post. you can untick both, and then select a 3rd, etc..

means you have more control over defensive work. I have th3 wingers on the post, with my LB CB CB on six yard box, and RB closing down. Midfield go back.

Done. Hope it helps.

Yup, this totally works, have fun kids.

[aderow]

I'm noticed a drastic reduction in conceded corner goals this weekend, since I started to leave 3/4 players on "go forward" and "edge of area". I even scored on a counter attack break.

Seems the opposition don't commit as many men up for the corner that way, making it easier to clear.

I figured that out a few years ago

The way I see it, it's best to set corners on mixed and invest a good corner kick taker. That'll keep them varied and you'll get a realistic number of goals (depending on how good your players are in the air).

[stevemc]

That why i said read all the pages.

ignore the move player stuff.

In players instructions,

select player 1, tick def corners select mark near post, untick.

select player 2, tick def corners, select mark near post, now go back to player 1 and tick box.

both are now mark near post. you can untick both, and then select a 3rd, etc..

means you have more control over defensive work. I have th3 wingers on the post, with my LB CB CB on six yard box, and RB closing down. Midfield go back.

Done. Hope it helps.

I'll test this tonight, cheers....

[stevemc]

Defending Corners Routine 14.3:

Just thought I would share this, I found it on FM Base (its not my work), so I tested it last night, and I'm currently 12 games without conceding a goal from an opposition corner, works an absolute treat:

Its eradicated that stupid near post flick goal by the looks of it.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-14-tactics/157674-defending-corners-potential-cure.html

Still working/testing attacking corner routines, not found anything amazing yet.

[wkdsoul]

Cheers Steve, might give this a go with my spare save, see if its better than what i have now, looks similar, but i have 3 on the 6yd line.

[stevemc]

Has anyone found a good set up for free kicks & throw ins?

[stevemc]

Has anyone found a good set up for free kicks & throw ins?

Regarding my post above; on throw in's, I've managed to teach my full back the "flat bullet throw" PPM, and set it to long throw, and I've been getting some joy from it, when sending up the two centre backs.

[Sussex Hammer]

Well that above post in post 80 has done a great job in defending corners but has anyone found a way to score them on this patch? I had some joy playing short corners in the first couple of games but now the corner taker seems to over hit it past the player coming short thus usually making it a perfect pass to the opposition striker!!!

[CityAndColour]

Near post delivery seems to be your best bet, I've scored almost all my corner goals with a near post header.

[stevemc]

Anyone tried far post?

[wkdsoul]

Anyone tried far post?

I a multi team, game testing setups at the min..

having some luck with 2 & 3.

[stevemc]

I a multi team, game testing setups at the min..

having some luck with 2 & 3.

Saw that over on FM Base, how's it going?

[Sussex Hammer]

So irritating that you can't really move your players about more. Attack from deep is useless yet a big strong player attacking a ball from deep should be one of the more successful ploys if played right.

[wkdsoul]

Saw that over on FM Base, how's it going?

Not had much time to implement, been working so only played one game with each.. set up 2 & 3, both created a goal, and set up 2, would have had a hatrick but the ball comes in low, might swap out the CB going for it with a taller player with better shooting.. see if increases.

[CityAndColour]

Well, managed to get three guys to stand on the six yard box when defending a corner.

Sadly, in typical 14.3 fashion, they all stood completely still while an attacker walked between them and headed in from a yard out.

[stevemc]

Well, managed to get three guys to stand on the six yard box when defending a corner.

Sadly, in typical 14.3 fashion, they all stood completely still while an attacker walked between them and headed in from a yard out.

I saw one where 3 defenders and the goalkeeper all stood there while the ball floated to the back post for a player to head in.

Any three of them could have headed it unopposed or the keeper could have caught it.

Stupid.

[llama3]

Well, managed to get three guys to stand on the six yard box when defending a corner.

Sadly, in typical 14.3 fashion, they all stood completely still while an attacker walked between them and headed in from a yard out.

See, you aren't being cheated by the match engine!

[tektonik]

I haven't changed my tactics from 14.2.x with corners and haven't seen any difference in conceding.

I do find however that on attacking corners all of my goals are coming from the 2nd or third touch on the corner rather than a direct header in. The AI is crowding the 6 yard box and they get a crappy clearance or deflect a header that manages to get to an open man around the box and I either spread it wide or find an open man to slot it in at the top of the box.

[stevemc]

Still struggling to find a decent attacking set up to make the most of corners.

As for free kicks, anyone noticed players taking them short, even when instructed to play long to the best header?

[Jimbokav1971]

stevemc I think like a lot of other things, you have to take away the option to pass short. If you don't send someone short at corners then it's hard/impossible to take them short. At free-kicks it's obviously harder, but you can still help yourself. Have a look at the person that is being passed to, look at what instructions you have given him and maybe think about changing them. If he's not there, then he can't be passed to.

No?

As for corners... really not sure what the problem is.

How many corners are you expecting to score from in a season?

Do you have players suited to competing for and winning the ball in the air?

How good is the player tasked with delivering the ball?

[Sussex Hammer]

Still struggling to find a decent attacking set up to make the most of corners.

As for free kicks, anyone noticed players taking them short, even when instructed to play long to the best header?

Not short but best header tends to go straight into the keepers arms! And I must say I have always wondered why we actually have an option of a player on the keeper at free kicks when teams push up because won't he always be offside?!!?! The only goals I get from free kicks are long range efforts which happen once every four of five games.

Corners are norked attacking wise I think. I had a bit of success briefly with short corners where a short corner then got crossed into the box got a couple of headed goals but more often than not now the short corner actually bypasses the player coming short like a rocket and goes straight to the feet of their player lurking at the edge of the box!! I tried putting all players on just "forward" without any specific role but those just get headed away as well. I have tried Andy Carroll attacking far post, near post, keeper, attack from deep and he hasn't got his head on one since the new patch. Noble and Taylor take them with high corner ratings but I see corners just float over the bar, all very frustrating.

[stevemc]

stevemc I think like a lot of other things, you have to take away the option to pass short. If you don't send someone short at corners then it's hard/impossible to take them short. At free-kicks it's obviously harder, but you can still help yourself. Have a look at the person that is being passed to, look at what instructions you have given him and maybe think about changing them. If he's not there, then he can't be passed to.

No?

As for corners... really not sure what the problem is.

How many corners are you expecting to score from in a season?

Do you have players suited to competing for and winning the ball in the air?

How good is the player tasked with delivering the ball?

I'm not expecting to score excessively, but my tactics currently don't make the most of set pieces, its an area of my tactic that I'd like to improve on.

As for set piece takers, and headers, I've got a fantastic set of options (I'm Manchester United). Its a case of finding a set up to support that.

[stevemc]

I've been playing with this set up over the weekend, scored a good amount from corners, so I'm sticking with this now:

In swinging corners only (ie, left footer on the right), the corner taker should be in one of the "go forward" positions.

Try it for yourselves.

[Sussex Hammer]

I've been playing with this set up over the weekend, scored a good amount from corners, so I'm sticking with this now:

In swinging corners only (ie, left footer on the right), the corner taker should be in one of the "go forward" positions.

Try it for yourselves.

Will give this a go. Interesting that you are the first person I have seen in any corner thread I have come across I think to say "the corner taker should be in one of the "go forward" positions". Quite often I see a corner idea where the corner taker is actually in one of the specialist positions!!

[llama3]

Will give this a go. Interesting that you are the first person I have seen in any corner thread I have come across I think to say "the corner taker should be in one of the "go forward" positions". Quite often I see a corner idea where the corner taker is actually in one of the specialist positions!!

Frankly I think it is a bit amateurish when people do not consider how their corner taker will impact upon their set up.

[RTHerringbone]

Frankly I think it is a bit amateurish when people do not consider how their corner taker will impact upon their set up.

It's true, and exactly like Sussex Hammer said.

I saw someone post something on another FM site where they were flagging a "game breaking Bug", because nobody was coming short for corners, even though they were instructed to.

Who was instructed to Offer Short Option? The corner taker!

[melogroovy]

I've been aiming near post and in back to back games my corner taker has scored the goal. Ince did it from the right side and then Moussa Sissoko did it from the left. I started playing with 2008 and I can probably count the times that has happened on one hand and yet I just did it two games in a row. One game in the EPL and the next game was a best placed Champion's Cup qualifier.