Morale is just far too effective - in my opinion.

[philly_flyer10]

i bet real managers would love a "fix moral" button in real life, truth is you have to work at these things, yes it may not be the most in depth part of the game, but the tools are there for you to improve moral, you just have to learn to use them in the right mannor.

Real managers dont have a whole squad full of hormonal, emo women that are always depressed and want to argue and then leave every time you talk to them.

[Martyr1777]

Real managers dont have a whole squad full of hormonal, emo women that are always depressed and want to argue and then leave every time you talk to them.

This.

The only problem I find with Morale is that even with amazing Morale the players can play poorly. (Even when warning about complacenecy etc)

And when you have very poor morale, theres not really a way of motivating the boys other than to hope they get a win somewhere.

This is the problem with the system I was saying earlier.

It's good to have a system but it's far too negative. If we have a team drop in morale there isn't a thing we can do about it to bring up that morale except hope for a win. Sure we can sign new contracts or get a couple players happy with media comments. But we're not going to sign a new contract with ever player that gets a low morale just to get them feeling better.

As i said, simple things like friendlies shouldn't have the same impact on morale as competitive matches, as well as matches between teams with significantly different reputations. We need more mitigation against morale drops, not for free we need to use whatever tools prevented to us, but we need that option.

Say a player goes on a bad run and has low morale... the only thing we can do is offer a new contract, make media comments or team talks and hope the talk affects that particular players, which is a shot in the dark. We can't go into the player interaction system and say anything, because if they are playing bad they think you are stupid for showing them encouragement and getting on them for playing badly won't help bad morale.

Mitigation and tools to counter act other then winning, it's that simple of a concept. The actual implementation would be more difficult, but this is exactly why they need to make existing features work instead of adding more and more broken features.

[Scab]

Say a player goes on a bad run and has low morale... the only thing we can do is offer a new contract, make media comments or team talks and hope the talk affects that particular players, which is a shot in the dark. We can't go into the player interaction system and say anything, because if they are playing bad they think you are stupid for showing them encouragement and getting on them for playing badly won't help bad morale.

Really? Because I find that criticism via player interaction almost always helps. I think the tools to counter-act are there, just not quite as fleshed-out as one would ultimately like.

[ottey_swe]

I hate the way morale works for & against me in this game. Winning/losing strikes galor. It really is beyond me how SI manage to screw up fm11-morale when it was just fine in the fully patched fm10. There's always going to be something broken in a new version though, unfortunately.

[Martyr1777]

Really? Because I find that criticism via player interaction almost always helps. I think the tools to counter-act are there, just not quite as fleshed-out as one would ultimately like.

In my experience it does very little and I use it regularly. It doesn't help morale that I've ever seen and doesn't make them play any better.

About the only thing I've noticed from it is better consistency from players, by them not having multiple bad games in a row or pushing inconsistent young players in a better direction with their development. But even that is questionable, I'm sure it has some effect but its seriously minimal, and it's the only action we can take regularly.

[russ the womble]

In my experience it does very little and I use it regularly. It doesn't help morale that I've ever seen and doesn't make them play any better.

About the only thing I've noticed from it is better consistency from players, by them not having multiple bad games in a row or pushing inconsistent young players in a better direction with their development. But even that is questionable, I'm sure it has some effect but its seriously minimal, and it's the only action we can take regularly.

I have found the talk about match performance affects things slightly, whereas talks about training levels can instantly turn poor into superb.

[Scab]

The last game comment will only have a minor effect, go for the recent form one for bigger impact. I use the former as more of a regular thing to keep spirits up and the latter as something to bring out when someone needs a boost.

[SnUrF]

As I'm more interested in what happens on the pitch rather than what happens in the dressing room or if a player's got his 'periods' or what ever, I've set my assistant (Terry McDermott) to handle the team talks and press conferences. So currently I've got assistant whose man management is 17, but is there some other attribute(s) I should be looking for when it comes to handling the 'moods' and the press?

-SnUrF

E: And for motivating (I've always believed it was more for training) his got also 17, and for the kids his got WWY 14 (again probably more important for training).

[Scab]

Motivating for team talks, I believe.

[Martyr1777]

I have found the talk about match performance affects things slightly, whereas talks about training levels can instantly turn poor into superb.

Training levels? from poor to superb?!

Ok they have something that improved morale... but that's one of the most unintuitive ways I could imagine. Just like ever other Ai failure, it lacks common sense.

Edit:

The last game comment will only have a minor effect, go for the recent form one for bigger impact. I use the former as more of a regular thing to keep spirits up and the latter as something to bring out when someone needs a boost.

That may be the case but I've never once had a case where I could use 'recent form' because there is either a good or bad game in there and the player reacts badly either way I go because their form hasn't been particularly bad or particularly good. So I never even look at it now, only use the last match option.

So how about that missing middle ground that's been talked about so much. So when you have a player that isn't consistently bad or good they can get helpful talk.

[Coentrao]

On FM10 i went to the confidence->players screen all the time and check on form and would praise or criticise based on that, on FM11 though criticising recent bad form always seems to backfire.

[russ the womble]

Training levels? from poor to superb?!

Ok they have something that improved morale... but that's one of the most unintuitive ways I could imagine. Just like ever other Ai failure, it lacks common sense.

yeah it's unintuitive, but it works. I don't know why it has such a massive difference. And a lot of the time, they don't seem to pick up their training either.

[milnerpoint]

Real managers dont have a whole squad full of hormonal, emo women that are always depressed and want to argue and then leave every time you talk to them.

neither does this game, you are just over dramatising the situation like most people on these forums. The tools are there to control your players and to improve poor moral, just learn to use them.

[eddiesenior]

Morale really is ridiculous in this game, I've had 4-0 thrashings, told my team I was delighted and everyone about a 7.5 as personally delighted, hit spacebar, next screen they're all down good/okays. by the next game it's okay/poor. Very poor if the opposition bothered to comment on one of them. Wholly unrealistic. When you've won 6 on the trot and not conceded one goal, you don't expect you're midfielder to be on very poor morale just because the opposition managers have picked him out as a key player in the upcoming game? Surely?

[PoolFan]

We all know that morale/confidence plays a important part in real life football. Nobody is going to dispute that.

What people are annoyed at is how ineffective the options in game are at controlling that morale. The tools simply arn't there to enable managers to understand what is going on with their players, it is all far too 'mystic meg' or 'pseudo psychology'. You could also argue that it is impossible for a game to realistically simulate this kind of system without turning it into a lame choose option 1,2 or 3 clickfest.

It seems to be by looking at Paul C's reply that he believes in the current system, for me I find that disappointing as I believe if you cannot do it properly then don't implement it.

[phnompenhandy]

...on FM11 though criticising recent bad form always seems to backfire.

I use it on professional players with whom I have a good relationship and when it is fully deserved - and that works for me. I think that part is coded sensibly; I agree that the morale boost from criticising training is a daft exploit (which i must confess i use).

[Reffi]

Morale really is ridiculous in this game, I've had 4-0 thrashings, told my team I was delighted and everyone about a 7.5 as personally delighted, hit spacebar, next screen they're all down good/okays. by the next game it's okay/poor. Very poor if the opposition bothered to comment on one of them. Wholly unrealistic. When you've won 6 on the trot and not conceded one goal, you don't expect you're midfielder to be on very poor morale just because the opposition managers have picked him out as a key player in the upcoming game? Surely?

You are right - more likely it would be the opposite (and could cause overconfidence more often than low morale).

I like FM2011 and play it despite morale being broken, but it is. My best player usually doesn't play, because of him being targeted by opposition. If SI do not fix this I would like a player interaction option to tell the player "You are my best player, but the best way you can make a contribution to the team is by taking the heat, and leaving the football to your team mates. Keep this between us, because I wouldn't want other players to become targeted as well even though you never play anymore becuase of your depression"

;-)

[ommerson]

I agree that morale seems to have too great an influence. And it's too hard to break a losing streak with low morale.

I'm now plumeting down the table because most of my players are having very low morale and one or two wins or positive comments do not seem to help very much..

On the other hand in a previous job I had a very mediocre team win the leugue because their winning steak simply didnt end with all players on superb morale, even thrashing teams two leagues up from mine in the cup.

I understand morale is an important factor, but quality should be the most important factor in the end. And I doubt it does in FM11. I have a feeling I can have teh best squad in the league and still can finish last when I happen to hit a low morale losing streak, or have the worst bunch of losers win it because of everlasting high morale.

It cant be that lets say ManU suddenly drop to the bottom of the table because morale is low. A low moraled ManU should be able to beat at least half of the PL just based on the quality on the pitch, regardless of the morale of key-players.

In FM09 and FM10 I often found that when you got your club promoted, the first season at a higher level was too easy, mostly contending for promotion straight away. Morale seeming to be way to high at the start of the new season and staying that way after a couple of wins. I dont know how that is in FM11, yet..

[paluuu]

its crazy. i'm playing with arsenal now, won the league and fa cup and reached the champions league final in my first season. second season managed to win the fa cup and champions league but finished way off in the league cause my team was just so **** poor in the league. into my third season now and i've only managed 4 points from my first 4 games: strikers can't score easy chances, defenders can't defend anything. its utter madness i'm so tempted to quit the job and look for another team which i can build up again.

[Toothless Gibbon]

Confidence (morale) is the single biggest deciding factor in football (IRL).

Period.

[vurogj]

We all know that morale/confidence plays a important part in real life football. Nobody is going to dispute that.

What people are annoyed at is how ineffective the options in game are at controlling that morale. The tools simply arn't there to enable managers to understand what is going on with their players, it is all far too 'mystic meg' or 'pseudo psychology'. You could also argue that it is impossible for a game to realistically simulate this kind of system without turning it into a lame choose option 1,2 or 3 clickfest.

This is about the closest to how I feel on this issue. My players Morale does leap around like a lamb in a spring meadow, for reasons that I don't always feel I understand, and therefore am likely to make worse given the tools at my disposal. Throughout this thread there have been things that just didn't occur to me, simply because they are so counter-intuitive.

If I can't be sure what the problem is, how can I know how to fix it?

[santy001]

On 11.1 there was a definite problem and whatever changes came on that front in 11.2 did help make it more managable, morale is a massive part of the game but at times it can make up too much of a weighting its not as extreme anymore and its much rarer, but I did my best to illustrate the difference between a side on good morale and it was showing some serious flaws. Without any major additions on 11.1 I took a side which finished 11th to almost becoming champions the next year without a change in formation, training or any noteworthy additions - just purely learning how better to manage morale.

[robertcornell68]

I've started selecting my team by sorting the squad by morale and picking the ones at the top.

I also use two of my four star players as "honey traps" for other managers' "must be stopped" comments, they're always miserable but I play some donkey from the reserves instead.

The results have been a spectacular increase in form but I'm starting to ask myself, "do I really want to play this way?"

[Beezeri]

In my opinion morale should be linked more with teams overall performance and not just down a few games(or sometimes like 1 or 2 game which could crash the morale totally). For example this season's Newcastle United...in FM their morale should be all dead by now due to their ups and downs from game to game. They've been very inconsistent(well it's just their style it seems) but the team have performed very well as overall and their morale and team spirit is sky high. One or two bad games wouldn't drop their morale IRL as it would in FM because they are still playing well above expectations(stay clear of relegation which was set before the season). Teams like Aston Villa or even Everton would be another case...they were expected to be fighting for TOP6 places and they are not even close to that which definitely kills the morale.

Well my point is that game perfomance shouldn't be linked so much to the morale! It should be more down to players ability and tactics(I'd prefer the latter) and it could be fine tuned with morale! There's no way lower league teams would beat let's say Liverpool like 4 times out of 10 games in normal circumstances which is very much possible in the game.

[Uncle_Sam]

I honestly don't think morale plays as big a role in performance as several in this thread seem to think. It is has some effect, obviously. But what I believe we have here is a case of some gamers not really knowing where to blame a loss so they run strait to morale because frankly it is impossible to quantify the effect it does have on a match. It's easier to point the finger at morale than it is tactics (which probably has more effect on the outcome than it should).

[TSH]

nonsense, if you were WBA and you were doing well, only to suddenly lose two games in a row you could lose the confidence you have built and start doubting your own ability thus your moral would drop.

Players do not forget everything on the pitch, far from it players just like normal human beings are affected by everything in life, Rooney is a perfect example you cannot say for the past few months he has been forgetting about everything when he gets on the pitch, things have clearly affected him outwith football which has lead to his very very poor start to the season.

I think managing moral for a manager is half the battle these days, you can have the best tactics and players in the world but if the players do not believe in themselves then its all for nothing, simlarly you can have a poor team with fantastic moral punching well above their weight, look at Rangers over the past few seasons, by all measurements they are quite a poor team but they have a fantastic team spirit and moral which has given them an edge over teams. A good draw in old trafford, should have beaten Valencia at home, not something you expect from a Scottish team in Europe.

No, that is completely wrong and it most certainly doesn't happen in real life. Sure, it can happen, as an exception, but we can't use this exception when try to apply a general principle in a game.

Your Rooney example is also out of place here. Rooney is one of the best players in the world, one of the most famous. His situation is not an every day thing in football. His problems are not an every day thing in football. Besides, his case took such turn because he is so famous. He got bombarded for his personal problems, which were exposed to the public eye in the most awful way. IT IS EXPECTED TO BE OUT OF FORM, TO HAVE DIFFICULTY ON CONCENTRATING ON THE PITCH.

But this is an EXCEPTION. When a player suffers such problems it's only logical to expect him to under-perform.

In general, for most players, morale doesn't sway in such erratic manner as it does in FM. Even if it does, sometimes, their performance can't elevate to Zidane levels just like that or completely forget how to shoot a ball for 15 games. For such dramatic drops in morale there should be suitable reasons, not just loosing one freaking game.

It's common sense and I am shocked that the game has so little of it.

On the other hand, a player's morale drops too low and there is no way of knowing what caused it. ALMOST EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION and we have to send a pkm in order to understand it because of lack of in-game feedback.

Paul asks for our examples. What I want to ask Paul is this: Do you not get these erratic changes in morale in your saves or in the saves of your testing team? Do you find them to be reasonable changes so you need our saves that show an "out of the norm" morale behaviour?

Confidence (morale) is the single biggest deciding factor in football (IRL).

Period.

It's a deciding factor only in some cases, not in the most cases. Having great morale doesn't create a Barcelona, it's just one of the important basis that a Barcelona can be created. An unexpected loss or draw (like Barcelona yesterday with Sporting Gijon) does not undo the entire Barcelona morale.

Guardiola said he was happy with how the players played even if his team suffered a draw. If we were to say we are happy with a draw of our great team in FM against lesser opposition all hell would break lose. Players would become unhappy that their manager expects so little of them, etc.

Guardiola also said that he was impressed with how Sporting played. If we were to say something like that in FM some players would become unhappy because we praised another manager.

It just doesn't make sense. The design of the morale feature in FM has no basis in reality and most of the times it's devoid of common sense.

[Tubey84]

It's the schizophrenic nature of morale that annoys me.

For example, you can go on a 10 game winning streak, be Superb across the board, lose 1-0 to a title rival and everyone plummets to Poor.

I understand losing morale, but the drastic up and downs are insane.

The other problem with morale is that it is very easy to manipulate. Simply put, if I notice the odd player on "Very Good" whilst everyone else is on "Superb", I'll note his rating from the last game, and I'll ask him to improve or praise him accordingly, and sure enough he's "Superb" again. Works every time.

And it never varies. I have a notebook full of ways to talk to players to ensure best results with morale. Again, I understand managers in reality adopt different tones with different players, but the impact of what you say to players on the ME is completely out of proportion in my view.

I can't be bothered booting up my Everton save, but I went 56 (ish) games unbeaten by just managing morale and pressing Continue, combined with the same three team talks every time (For The Fans/You Can Win This/Where's The Passion?) and substituting tired players after 60 minutes.

But conversely, if I were to lose a game after a 56 game winning streak, a lot of the players would drop to "Poor". Go figure.

Footballers need anti-depressants it seems. I'd just like the game to be a bit more... "dynamic" I guess. It just feels like I've figured out the formula and it never differs from 1+1=2. In previous editions, you could adapt tactics to address slumps and it took a lot more nous.

EDIT: Just to add, Morale generally only effects the players who played. For example, I'd already won the league and had a Champions League tie coming up, so I played the youth team who got trash 6-1. They all plummeted to Very Poor, but my first team remained Superb.

I don't think that'd happen in reality to be honest. The game is a squad game and having your squad mates on the end of a thrashing would be a downer for the regular player too.