Will Womens Leagues/Womens World Cup Ever Make it into FM?

[Lord Rowell]

Well, for one thing, League One, League Two are the third and fourth tier of the system. And with 24 teams in each division, thats still a lot of support. The WPS is the highest level of womens football in the US where football enjoys higher popularity then it does in much of the world and it is still only drawing attendances that are similar to the smallest League One sides and about half the league two sides. And with the looks of it, there are only seven sides. Really, thats just reitterating the point that there just isn't the interest in the womens game to make it a financially viable option for SI to include in the current game or as a standalone product.

It isn't re-iterating the point at all.

By your logic, in terms of SI making a decision based on financial viability, you're saying that they shouldn't support, in the game, a league that attacts attendances in the 1000's and has fairly significant TV deals. However, you have no objection to their supporting the lower Scottish tiers, with support in the low 1000's and often the low 100's.

If you're analysing this commerically, that makes no sense at all, from SI's point of view.

Would you be in support of SI abandoning Scottish League One, Two etc, and probably a lot of other small European & South American Leagues as well? IF you are going to be consistent with your argument here, then your answer must be "yes".

[Shannon USSF]

What kind of Preferred Player Moves (PPM) would there be for lady Footballers??

* Likes to moan

* Cooks a lovely Sunday roast

* Does the ironing

* Doesn't stop talking

* Can't touch the crossbar (for goalkeepers)

* Spends hours in the bathroom

* Often has a headache

* Regular periods

* On the pill

This is the disgusting sexism running rampant here. And completely and utterly uncalled for. You might be joking but is it any wonder that other girls who aren't used to dishing it out to guys and giving them alot of pain wouldn't want to deal with people like you? I know when I played I injured too many guys in the park to want them to play with me. So can I say that a PPM for them would be "Scared of girls"?

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Having a family member who got picked for an England youth team for women and having watch women's football with her as well, I can confirm the ability of the players between men and women is really, really different.

Women are slower, not as strong, ability to pass the ball is not as accurate or vision is not the same and that's with a tempo that is far, far slower than anything men play at.

Goalkeepers (cousin is a goalkeeper) she don't know I post on here so it's okay but no offence, she wouldn't even get in her school boy's team as a goalkeeper. I think she was second choice for England but really, she isn't very good. I've seen just as good goalkeeper in local leagues for boys.

I'd bet my life savings, most teams above the evo-stik league in England would beat the best women's teams.

There are of course some players in the women's game who maybe able to compete around conference level but a very limited few. Even then, I think they'd struggle. The pace they play the game at is so slow.

[Shannon USSF]

Having a family member who got picked for an England youth team for women and having watch women's football with her as well' date=' I can confirm the ability of the players between men and women is really, really different.

Women are slower, not as strong, ability to pass the ball is not as accurate or vision is not the same and that's with a tempo that is far, far slower than anything men play at.

Goalkeepers (cousin is a goalkeeper) she don't know I post on here so it's okay but no offence, she wouldn't even get in her school boy's team as a goalkeeper. I think she was second choice for England but really, she isn't very good. I've seen just as good goalkeeper in local leagues for boys.

I'd bet my life savings, most teams above the evo-stik league in England would beat the best women's teams.

There are of course some players in the women's game who maybe able to compete around conference level but a very limited few. Even then, I think they'd struggle. The pace they play the game at is so slow.[/quote']

I'd be willing to bet that Hope Solo or even better Brianna Scurry would have disagreed as goalkeepers. Hope would be able to compete in MLS if allowed (and that is one position the league is stacked in as far as young talent).

[Lord Rowell]

I watch Womens football. I think its great that it is become a lot more popular these days. But I've said a lot of times now, at the moment the two are not integrated. There would be a lot of media coverage about the idea of it months before it actually happened, much like the Beckham to LA move.Until this happens there is absoloutely no need for SI to have womens leagues. When they are integrated then they definately should have the womens leagues.

I said before that there needs to be a game on the market purely based on women's football before a huge company like SI takes the risk on it when it might not be popular. When they make a game for Womens football, we will be one step closer to integrating men's and womens football together in the real world of football

No, your logic is the wrong way round here. To launch a brand new product is the more significant riak due to increased production, development, marketing & distribution costs - whether that was done by SI or ANother company. However, for SI to develop their research network a little further and add some women's leagues as well would be minimal cost and ZERO risk, because all you're doing is bundling them with the release of FM20xx , just in the same way they include leagues from Mexico, Ireland, South Africa etc.

An example of how minimal in cost & resources this would be. Many, if not all, of the Swedish clubs have affiliations / close links / same business between the mens and womens teams. Given SI presumably have researchers with the mens teams, it wouldn't be a great leap to use those contacts to get researchers for the womens teams.

Re. the WPS in the USA, flippin 'eck, write to the clubs & supporters branches. There's clearly enough support there per club, far more than is the case for many teams that SI have in their database. Contact the clubs and supporters branches and get something going. I bet those clubs would be supportive because, if nothing else, it raises their national and global profile.

[Vic Taylor]

<...>

I've done quite a bit of research into female teams in England and have watched a great many of them play. A lot of them would easily stand up to their male counterparts. The problem with the England women's team is that the scouting network for women is much smaller than the one for men, meaning the best players don't always get called up, or sometimes even noticed. Therefore, it's not an accurate judge of the level of female footballers in England.

[Shannon USSF]

Another thing to think about, there was a girl here in high school that not only started on the boy's varsity team, but she was the leading scorer and most assists, and this is a team that went to the state tournament.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Well I'm only judging from what I've seen in England.

[Lord Rowell]

Having a family member who got picked for an England youth team for women and having watch women's football with her as well' date=' I can confirm the ability of the players between men and women is really, really different.

Women are slower, not as strong, ability to pass the ball is not as accurate or vision is not the same and that's with a tempo that is far, far slower than anything men play at.

Goalkeepers (cousin is a goalkeeper) she don't know I post on here so it's okay but no offence, she wouldn't even get in her school boy's team as a goalkeeper. I think she was second choice for England but really, she isn't very good. I've seen just as good goalkeeper in local leagues for boys.

I'd bet my life savings, most teams above the evo-stik league in England would beat the best women's teams.

There are of course some players in the women's game who maybe able to compete around conference level but a very limited few. Even then, I think they'd struggle. The pace they play the game at is so slow.[/quote']

You may think that and that is your opinion. You may be right, or wrong, or the truth may be somewhere in between - it'd be a fascinating discussion in the right context.

However, this particular debate has nothing whatsoever to do with whether SI should be assisting development of women's leagues in the FM series.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

To be fair, a lot of the women do have great ball skills and control.

[Bababui]

Oooohh!! Get her!

Calm down andy. Racist/Sexist stuff isnt called for.

[Lord Rowell]

Calm down andy. Racist/Sexist stuff isnt called for.

Agreed

Just click the report icon and fill in a report, that's what I do

[magicmastermind124]

I think Si should put the option for people to create a league using the editor (basically make the game recognise a male and female league, team and player) and let the community set it up.

They won't lose money that way.

[Lord Rowell]

I think Si should put the option for people to create a league using the editor (basically make the game recognise a male and female league, team and player) and let the community set it up.

They won't lose money that way.

I think SI could do a lot more than that in the fullness of time but, nonetheless, a very good suggestion

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

By the way, I don't think it's a good idea. It's a completely different game, adding women's football is no different from adding the homeless world cup or the cup for the disabled footballers.

Until Men and women integrate and you can buy women's players for men's teams etc...then it won't work unless a completly different game is set up.

People say, you can add the options of creating a league but then you have to surely make sure that the women's team can't buy any men players, financially it's a completely different sport. How do you rate the players? in terms of how good they compare with men or how good they are compared to the women's game. All this sort of stuff.

[AndyPass]

Calm down andy. Racist/Sexist stuff isnt called for.

Hmmm... not sure how I was racist. Plus, I don't see how saying ladies Football is rubbish is sexist. Rightly or wrongly, it's more a statement of fact.

Another fact is that this will never ever be in FM. If you want it, just use the editor and add it to your game and share it with others who do.

[Leishy1995]

My sister plays the game at youth level for Hibs girls, people say she'd play for Scotland, teams have to hold open trials to get players in at youth level and my sisters team barely field enough players now. Just to make sure I am not hated, I WOULD play the game with both leagues systems in it. You could say it is conference level but I play LLM and that's fine with me. If you lose your job you can rebuild your career, reputation would need to be made accordingly. My sister is probably 5 ft 2 and did play for a boys team, other teams parents, mums, came over to say she outplayed any boys they'd seen. But they hadn't seen me. Anyway, if they make it, I would play with the leagues picked.

[Lord Rowell]

By the way' date=' I don't think it's a good idea. It's a completely different game, adding women's football is no different from adding the homeless world cup or the cup for the disabled footballers.

Until Men and women integrate and you can buy women's players for men's teams etc...then it won't work unless a completly different game is set up.

People say, you can add the options of creating a league but then you have to surely make sure that the women's team can't buy any men players, financially it's a completely different sport. How do you rate the players? in terms of how good they compare with men or how good they are compared to the women's game. All this sort of stuff.[/quote']

So your problem with adding leagues for footballers with disabilities etc. is what, exactly?

That comment tells us a lot about you.

As has been done to death here if you've read this thread, ensuring that there was no crossover between mens and womens leagues, if that was desired, would be a doddle. Its case of database criteria setting that is way simpler than all the national league complexities that SI manage superbly with every new release of FM.

Re. how you rate the players, I doubt it would be a great intellectual leap to come up with a suitable framework. FWIW, my own view would be to rate female players in the context of their own sex. If it so happens in the future that, IRL, female players do end up playing in mens professional leagues, it can be reviewed.

[Bababui]

Hmmm... not sure how I was racist. Plus, I don't see how saying ladies Football is rubbish is sexist. Rightly or wrongly, it's more a statement of fact.

Another fact is that this will never ever be in FM. If you want it, just use the editor and add it to your game and share it with others who do.

I didnt say you were racist; I was pointing out that the two things eminate from the same well of ignorance. Your womens ppm's were sexist though.

[kiwityke]

I know when I played I injured too many guys in the park to want them to play with me. So can I say that a PPM for them would be "Scared of girls"?

In the 20 odd years of playing football I have never injured anyone, and in my experience players who do injure people its because of a lack of skill not because they are good players, or physically hard!

In my experiences of playing against girls they tend to injure players for two reasons firstly they are slightly uncordinated tackle late and get the man, or they are physically off the pace come in late and injure the player or they are both and really injure the player. This also goes for some men I have played with too mind.

Personally they won't add the womens game purely due to a lack of interest. You can argue that womens football is growing in popularity but of that relatively small support base an even smaller percentage would play fm.

Also anyone who thinks women have the same physical strength of a man obviously doesn't live in the real world.

[Shannon USSF]

Well, let me put it in perspective. I was skillful enough, it was just that I was also one of those that was taught to give back as good as I got. I played with older brothers and their friends who would go studs up regularly. There's a reason I had 3 ankle surgeries before I was 16. So in retaliation, I would tackle hard. However, I also as a referee know I was and am a very hotheaded player.

You would consider me similar in style to Timmie (Tim Brown) who I used to play with/for when he was in Richmond.

[Lord Rowell]

Well, let me put it in perspective. I was skillful enough, it was just that I was also one of those that was taught to give back as good as I got. I played with older brothers and their friends who would go studs up regularly. There's a reason I had 3 ankle surgeries before I was 16. So in retaliation, I would tackle hard. However, I also as a referee know I was and am a very hotheaded player.

You would consider me similar in style to Timmie (Tim Brown) who I used to play with/for when he was in Richmond.

You are the Roy Keane of U.S. soccer

[Lord Rowell]

In the 20 odd years of playing football I have never injured anyone, and in my experience players who do injure people its because of a lack of skill not because they are good players, or physically hard!

In my experiences of playing against girls they tend to injure players for two reasons firstly they are slightly uncordinated tackle late and get the man, or they are physically off the pace come in late and injure the player or they are both and really injure the player. This also goes for some men I have played with too mind.

Personally they won't add the womens game purely due to a lack of interest. You can argue that womens football is growing in popularity but of that relatively small support base an even smaller percentage would play fm.

Also anyone who thinks women have the same physical strength of a man obviously doesn't live in the real world.

It is comments like that (the emboldened bit) that will kill the interest on this forum.

There are huge amount of girls and women play football, this isn't a minority thing. Its bigger in the UK than people think, and very big in the U.S. and Scandinavia. The UK is very insular on this issue.

Also you mention the issue of physical strength differences. So what??? Why mention this in the context of a discussion that is about SI adding women's leagues to the game?

[Shannon USSF]

I am nowhere close to Keane, at least in my opinion. I have the fire he does but not quite the same. Of course, the funny thing is that the referees anytime I got a card would just shake their heads because I would be working with them the next day. But that is me. I hate to lose.

[Lankylars]

It is comments like that (the emboldened bit) that will kill the interest on this forum.

There are huge amount of girls and women play football, this isn't a minority thing. Its bigger in the UK than people think, and very big in the U.S. and Scandinavia. The UK is very insular on this issue.

Also you mention the issue of physical strength differences. So what??? Why mention this in the context of a discussion that is about SI adding women's leagues to the game?

Just to weigh in...

I highly doubt that if real interest exists, someone claiming that no interest exists would kill it. Seems like a lack of true passion to me if some random forum post turns you off from something you really want.

Regardless of how many girls and women play soccer, people here forget that SI is a business and not a fell-good charity. SI make decisions mostly based on business motives. If there is truly great interest (outside of this thread) from gamers for women's leagues, I have no doubt SI would add it in time. But just five or six members insisting that it would have an audience doesn't amount to fact. Of course, neither does me saying that interest doesn't exist, but I'm trying to make a point here. At the end of the day, expecting SI to make moves on this is probably futile. If you all are so interested, then take that interest and really begin organizing a community effort to get this going.

[Lord Rowell]

Just to weigh in...

I highly doubt that if real interest exists, someone claiming that no interest exists would kill it. Seems like a lack of true passion to me if some random forum post turns you off from something you really want.

Regardless of how many girls and women play soccer, people here forget that SI is a business and not a fell-good charity. SI make decisions mostly based on business motives. If there is truly great interest (outside of this thread) from gamers for women's leagues, I have no doubt SI would add it in time. But just five or six members insisting that it would have an audience doesn't amount to fact. Of course, neither does me saying that interest doesn't exist, but I'm trying to make a point here. At the end of the day, expecting SI to make moves on this is probably futile. If you all are so interested, then take that interest and really begin organizing a community effort to get this going.

I'm wondering if you've read any of the thread? Btw, I understand if you haven't because these threads get very, very long. I think the points you make have been covered but I'll try and summarise.

A lot of people, immediately stomping into a thread saying "its rubbish / it won't work" WILL put people off, because they won't ever engage.

SI is a business. SI is perfectly capable of making its own business decisions. The first page of posts on this thread is full of folk telling SI it won't work - based on nothing more than the fact that those individual posters don't want it. Y'know, I don't like raw onions on a salad sandwich. Whenever I go into a sandwich shop, I always say - no onions. But, I don't go standing outside the shop saying "no onions on sandwiches cos I don't like them and no-one else will either!". If I did give the sandwich shop some advice, I'd base it on empirical evidence that was properly selected and representative of a target market. However, what happens here is that our sexist element make these claims based on their own views and prejudices... and then put off others from commenting. Back to your early point - if people visit a thread about a topic, see that its being dismissed from the word go by prejudiced behaviour, most won't bother coming back, that's what's happening here.

I agree with your point re. the community effort. Problem is the community effort is being strangled at birth by sexist behaviour so it never ever develops into stages that might have outcomes. SI have responsibility here to manage this more effectively (active presence, support and moderation would be good, for starters). SI also have responsibility to give some active support as well as they presumably have done re. other league development.

[Lankylars]

I'm wondering if you've read any of the thread? Btw, I understand if you haven't because these threads get very, very long. I think the points you make have been covered but I'll try and summarise.

A lot of people, immediately stomping into a thread saying "its rubbish / it won't work" WILL put people off, because they won't ever engage.

SI is a business. SI is perfectly capable of making its own business decisions. The first page of posts on this thread is full of folk telling SI it won't work - based on nothing more than the fact that those individual posters don't want it. Y'know, I don't like raw onions on a salad sandwich. Whenever I go into a sandwich shop, I always say - no onions. But, I don't go standing outside the shop saying "no onions on sandwiches cos I don't like them and no-one else will either!". If I did give the sandwich shop some advice, I'd base it on empirical evidence that was properly selected and representative of a target market. However, what happens here is that our sexist element make these claims based on their own views and prejudices... and then put off others from commenting. Back to your early point - if people visit a thread about a topic, see that its being dismissed from the word go by prejudiced behaviour, most won't bother coming back, that's what's happening here.

I agree with your point re. the community effort. Problem is the community effort is being strangled at birth by sexist behaviour so it never ever develops into stages that might have outcomes. SI have responsibility here to manage this more effectively (active presence, support and moderation would be good, for starters). SI also have responsibility to give some active support as well as they presumably have done re. other league development.

I have read the whole thread, actually. Something always draws me to these "controversial" topics...like reading the opinion pages in the newspaper. Thanks for replying to my comments though.

Maybe some will be put off, but those of you who have spoken up here appear highly animated. For a community effort to work, highly animated people are needed. That type of person won't be discouraged by some logical, some not logical, and some sexist points or thoughts against adding women's leagues.

I agree with your business comment - SI needs to base their decisions on some sort of evidence, evidence that probably goes beyond what we debate here in this thread or on the forum. Only they know their target market, various user demographics, etc. I am a business major finishing at university, so that's the approach I bring to the "Should SI ad _____________" threads. I would have no interest personally in women's leagues, and I personally don't believe that there is truly enough total interest out there. I could be wrong; obviously, I've done no more research to support my views than anyone else theirs (at least as far as the logical posts go).

That is why I am against SI doing the lion's share of the work. I'd be happy if it were a community thing. Perhaps someone here could lead the charge and contact people at SI asking what goes in to research and creating a realistic database, asking for a special forum to coordinate logistics of research, get volunteers, even survey people to check interest. I am all for community involvement. But my after my evaluation here I am against SI being the ones to really push this.

[Lord Rowell]

Women play football both professionally and internationally. Seems like SI should add them into the game as playable leagues. I really cant think of a good argument for keeping them out.

As a business decision, it would bring in a new wave of (female) customers.

SI??

Actually, before I go to sleep, its worth revisiting the OP (above).

Bababui makes a statement, then a suggestion, then a question to SI.

Lots of people (not all, but lots), answer in the negative, apparently thinking they are acting on SI's behalf.

Huh?

[Lord Rowell]

I have read the whole thread, actually. Something always draws me to these "controversial" topics...like reading the opinion pages in the newspaper. Thanks for replying to my comments though.

Maybe some will be put off, but those of you who have spoken up here appear highly animated. For a community effort to work, highly animated people are needed. That type of person won't be discouraged by some logical, some not logical, and some sexist points or thoughts against adding women's leagues.

I agree with your business comment - SI needs to base their decisions on some sort of evidence, evidence that probably goes beyond what we debate here in this thread or on the forum. Only they know their target market, various user demographics, etc. I am a business major finishing at university, so that's the approach I bring to the "Should SI ad _____________" threads. I would have no interest personally in women's leagues, and I personally don't believe that there is truly enough total interest out there. I could be wrong; obviously, I've done no more research to support my views than anyone else theirs (at least as far as the logical posts go).

That is why I am against SI doing the lion's share of the work. I'd be happy if it were a community thing. Perhaps someone here could lead the charge and contact people at SI asking what goes in to research and creating a realistic database, asking for a special forum to coordinate logistics of research, get volunteers, even survey people to check interest. I am all for community involvement. But my after my evaluation here I am against SI being the ones to really push this.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I was gonna catch some Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's but thought this was worth a response.

Deffo agree with evidence-based reasoning - I'd like to let SI draw their own conclusions from an environment that allowed positive interest to be expressed. That isn't happening here. This is not an enviroment where meaningful conclusions could be drawn. As a business major, would you conduct market research on this issue in this environment? I doubt it.

Re. the community thing. Agree that this can be a big part. Problem is as above - the environment here is wrong.

[fuzzrab]

Hmmm... not sure how I was racist. Plus, I don't see how saying ladies Football is rubbish is sexist. Rightly or wrongly, it's more a statement of fact.

Another fact is that this will never ever be in FM. If you want it, just use the editor and add it to your game and share it with others who do.

Neither are statements of fact, they are mereley opinions expressed by yourself.

Also your past two posts, the utterly disgusting Female PPM's post and the "ohh get her post", are completely sexist and have no place on these forums.

[Mansleg]

Look FM's ultimate goal is realism. And in my opinion a game world that contains management of both women's and men's football in the same playing conditions is not realisitic due to the real life seperation of the two as different professional sports. If there were a seperate game containing women's football management I would not be against that, however I don't think that it would be realisitic to place it in the game we already have which is about men's professional football management.

[FrazT]

This thread is a reasonable debate about future developments of the game so if you cant post without some childish comments, please dont post at all.

[CMdan44]

So can I say that a PPM for them would be "Scared of girls"?

:D:thup:

[CMdan44]

Look FM's ultimate goal is realism. And in my opinion a game world that contains management of both women's and men's football in the same playing conditions is not realisitic due to the real life seperation of the two as different professional sports. If there were a seperate game containing women's football management I would not be against that, however I don't think that it would be realisitic to place it in the game we already have which is about men's professional football management.

but the real world contains management of both sports, lot's of men manage in the women's game and may have (?) managed in the men's game.

and i think we all know it's only a matter of time before Hope Powell gets a job in the lower reaches of the Football League, just as long as she finds a club that'll let her manage England's women at the same time.

yes they're seperated in terms of players, but a there is crossover in backroom staff, match officials and club directors and i don't think we're too far off a woman joining the men's game. I'm sure there was some top-end professional Mexican men's club that tried to sign a woman around 2004 (?) and the deal was ready to go through until FIFA or the Mexican FA blocked it on some technicality.

personally i'd happily give players like Rachel Yankey, Rachel Unitt, Kelly and Sue Smith and Eniola Aluko a trial for a championship/lower premiership club. and as for players like Marta da Silva, Daniela Alves or Birgit Prinz - they'd make a top flight club very happy. Or Julie Fleeting - 113 goals in 116 caps for Scotland, which means she banged in a ton of goals with a fairly low standard team; imagine what she'd do with support from the best players in the world!! I know what you'll be thinking - standard of the opposition, but to a goal poacher, that means nothing - as a classic number 9, her job is to finish, and the nets are always the same size, it's up to the rest of the team to get the ball in the box, then it's just a case of finishing, which we can see she can do very well.

anyway, this isn't really an argument about quality or whether women could make it in the men's game. it's about wether it's a good a idea to include women on FM and yes, i believe it is. From a comercial point of view, i don't buy the argument that it'll open up a new market and get women buying the game, if they want to, they can do so already and they would have no reason to suddenly start buying it up just because women are included. However, the fact that this keeps cropping up means the interest is there from people who play the game and you don't want to lose those people to another, lower quality game just because that game includes leagues that you don't. that's what happened to Pro Evo and now FIFA rules the roost because it took away Pro Evo's fans and money and got more for itself. it's a case of having to speculate to accumulate because what the women's game needs is exposure to mass consciousness, which FM could give to it and that would lead to a growth in public interest in the game and so more coverage from other sources will follow, meaning more money in the game, thus meaning more investment in youth and coaching and therefore better quality players and then more interest and so on, it just needs that first push to start the cycle and why should it not come from a video game or simulation?

I believe there's enough interaction between men's and women's to warrant the inclusion and i think that the intergration will only continue to grow, so it would pay to be prepared against the day when there are no more men's and women's and there's just Football; cos that's what we're all about here, right? football, in all its detail. I bet there's someone here who can tell me the name of the top scorer in the most obscure league in the world for the past six years without looking it up. Because that's how much we care. Would i feel any affection for Yeovil Town if i hadn't led them to Champions League glory? probably not. Would i even know who was in the South African premier league if it wasn't for my successes with Kaizer Cheifs? i doubt it. and would any of us been able to say "told you so" to all our mates when Hatem Ben Arfa scored against Everton the other week after they didn't even know who he was? not likely. And the women's game can be just the same, if it was there, in the game, it would catch all our imaginations eventually.

[BenArsenal]

When I see a woman make it in the men's game, then I'll give my support.

Until then, I still maintain they should be separated.

[El_Strict]

I read the first 20 odd posts then saw it got into a discussion about the physicality of the game and all that.

Basically people have said it already. When does the mens game and the womens game every interact with each other? Im not saying it shouldn't, im saying it doesn't.

Until you see women playing in the mens league and men playing in the women's league and the better still when the whole concept of separate leagues for men and women is abolished and everyone plays in the same league there is no need for discussion.

And i saw someone say its the same with the Indian league for example. Its not and that is a ridiculous point! If i was a manager in England on FM i could sign a player from the Indian league if i wished. I couldn't sign a player from Charlton Womens team however because Mens professional football is a completely separate game to Womens professional football, at the moment

Ironic username? Who here do you think is suggesting that women's teams should be incorporated into the game with a view to signing those women to their men's teams? As you said, men and women don't play together and so they wouldn't in the game.

It's called Football Manager, not Men's football manager.

I don't think it is a feasible suggestion at the moment due to the research needed versus the demand, but women's football is improving, and if it continues it's momentum and more teams become semi-pro/pro (the United States already has a professional league), then, for the sake of realism, women's teams and leagues should be incorporated into the game alongside, but not interacting with, the men's teams and leagues.

@BenArsenal Why exactly do you want to see a woman make it in the men's game? Your argument makes no sense.

For what it's worth, many men manage women's teams, including a lot of the national teams. I fail to see the problem with being able to do this is the game.

[jod123]

Too many posts to go through but I am probably repeating what has already been said.

It would be great to have this in the game but as a separate database at least if not a separate game as there no interaction between the womens and mens football in reality. They are basically two entirely different sports.

Although there is no reason why someone couldn't actually create a database now and create the leagues, players and so on. There would be a few slight issues such as you can't have a female player so they would be referred to he the whole time in news items and also but probably a bigger problem would be newgens being male with male names but it would be good for a game now.

[BenArsenal]

@BenArsenal Why exactly do you want to see a woman make it in the men's game? Your argument makes no sense.

For what it's worth, many men manage women's teams, including a lot of the national teams. I fail to see the problem with being able to do this is the game.

I was just addressing the argument about women being in the men's game, which they currently do not.

Be it separate database or game, the fact remains that women play their football and men play theirs. Yes men are often behind the scenes for women's game, but the same doesn't happen the opposite way. There is very little 'cross-over', so to speak. At the moment women's football exist as an independent sport on its own, generally self-supporting with limited interaction with the men's game.

I repeat, IF there is a separate FM Women's Game, I would probably buy it.

[rancer890]

Tbf, this world is a sexist world..basically every 'major' sport (well the sports with the most viewership in the world and rakes in the most money), namely most football leagues, basketball, baseball, hockey, American football have men leagues. The only sport where there are girls and women participating is in auto racing. In the Indy Car Series over here, we have as many as 5 females participating in one race (Sao Paulo season opener iirc). Danica Patrick, Simona de Silvestro, Sarah Fisher, Mika 'Dunno How to Drive a Racecar properly' Duno are full time drivers, and a Brazilian driver at Sao Paulo. Canada had one female hockey player (Haley Wickenheiser if I spelled that correctly), our best ever, play in a men's professional league in the Swedish 2nd and 3rd division (or was it 4th...) for a few games, and did pretty well. There is also a female baseball pitcher from Japan in the Independent leagues in the states.

Can a Marta play against men? Surely, but tbh I don't think they can play in the top tier leagues (and be successful). And it's perceived (here at least) that most signings seem to be gimmicks and to put people in the seats rather than on talent.

I don't know how the European's women leagues are, but in the WNBA and WPS, teams are folding, and their fanbases aren't that good, and both are losing millions of dollars a year. One think you will have to understand, is that there haven't been any professional sport like WNBA, and football/soccer that has a video game, maybe because the market is (stereo-typically) male-dominated. Even EA has made every possible game for every professional league (they even had Arena football, rugby and now MMA, and even talks of a lacrosse game with the NLL), but no WNBA video game.

There is a lot of risk involved financially and SI already had one failure in the Eastside Hockey Manager series. Would SI/Sega be willing to use their financial resources to properly develop and market a women's league game?

[edgar555]

<snip> There is a lot of risk involved financially and SI already had one failure in the Eastside Hockey Manager series. Would SI/Sega be willing to use their financial resources to properly develop and market a women's league game?

No I doubt they would for all the very good reasons you and others have posted, which is why I say everytime, its one for the community. However no one ever does anything about it. If all the people who were interested got their heads together they'd have something working in a couple of months.

[BrightLad5]

Ironic username? Who here do you think is suggesting that women's teams should be incorporated into the game with a view to signing those women to their men's teams? As you said, men and women don't play together and so they wouldn't in the game.

Bababui is, and I say its ridiculous.

A few posts before mine he said that it would be a discrimination for it not to be allowed so there, thats who is suggesting that.

[Lauser]

Two little stories to make a point about how "good" women's football is in comparison to men's football:

Five or six years ago (yeah, I accept that things may have changed slightly since then) the German women's national team (world class, you know...) lost 0-3 to the Under-17 squad of VfB Stuttgart in a 45-minute match. Same year, the German women's top club Turbine Potsdam lost a 90-minute match to 7th level men's team from Brandenburg by a score of 3-10.

That's how women fare against men.

[Anost]

Even if they did have the spare resources, I would rather they spend them on implementing leagues such as those from Africa, Middle East and Asia before even attempting it. So yes, once these couple hundred leagues have been implemented, THEN I will support it. Until then, I see no reason why they should make such big risk for such likely little reward.

[El_Strict]

Bababui is, and I say its ridiculous.

A few posts before mine he said that it would be a discrimination for it not to be allowed so there, thats who is suggesting that.

Fair enough, I missed this, i take back my comments about your username.

I stand by the fact that until it happens in real life...then it has no place in FM

Agreed. But you do realise that the inverse of your argument here is that if something happens in real life then it should be in FM. Therefore you believe that SI should incorporate women's leagues into the game, seeing as they exist in real life?

When they make a game for Womens football, we will be one step closer to integrating men's and womens football together in the real world of football

Lol, "one step closer" to a virtual impossibility. I think you are deliberately trying to use as little logic as possible, why would a computer game lead to integration of the male and female games? There is no causation here.

[Mansleg]

Agreed. But you do realise that the inverse of your argument here is that if something happens in real life then it should be in FM. Therefore you believe that SI should incorporate women's leagues into the game, seeing as they exist in real life?

Yes and elephants exist in real life too. We should have elephants in the game without question, big grey ones that roam around stomping on people.

[Stampler]

Let me just put it out there, my final opinion.

I would consider buying a women's FM IF it was a standalone game, and not involved with the standard FM.

I don't want the database to be messed up due to players not being able to go across and etc.

And I do actually believe a standalone women's FM game will actually garner some interest. It is indeed growing in popularity, and more than a few countries have women's leagues now (There is a Women's A-League in Australia, for example).

ridiculous. women dont do that.

[greenwhitearmy]

Are you being serious? it would just mess the game up because you wouldnt be able to sign any men for a womens club and vice versa its just useless

[Jed_Leeds_ United_ Fan]

My reply to the OP.

I HOPE NOT

Regarding a seperate womans version, there wouldnt be enough fans of womens football to make a profit out of the game..

Im not one to knock womens football but Arsenals womens team wouldnt even make it in the top 30 tear of mens football, they would probably be playing in the 'West Staines triangular sunday league'........

[BenArsenal]

ridiculous. women dont do that.

Don't do what? Not sure what you mean there.

[edgar555]

Don't do what? Not sure what you mean there.

No nor do I, not sure what he's getting at. Maybe quoted the wrong post?