A Clarification on Rules in GD - Updated

Dear all,

Please take note of some of the rules in the Football Manager PC/Mac General Discussion forum (GD for short). Neji has already posted some rules in This Thread, but in light of recent posts, I felt they needed clarifying. As well as the general Forum Rules, I'd just like to remind you of some rules in GD and also bring to your attention some other bits and pieces:

Posting Patch Threads:

If you want to comment or give your reaction to the 9.3 patch, please do so in the Feedback Thread. Please do not create your own thread unless it is about a specific issue or area of the game. If you create a general reaction thread to the patch it will likely be merged into the feedback thread, or possibly closed.

Also consider that post-patch is our busiest time, and that your question has probably been asked and answered already. Please spare everyone's time by doing a quick search before creating a new thread.

Creating New Threads:

Before you create a new thread, search for it first. Try with a couple of different terms, and make use of the advanced search. Chances are your question has been asked and answered before, and we'd rather users got the information that exists rather than cluttering up the forums with duplicated threads.

Also, when creating a new thread please keep the title relevant to the content. Please do not create topics saying "SI blah blah." They will not get your threads answered any quicker, nor are SI staff members more likely to jump in these threads and assist you. Please be warned that if you create an arbitrary thread title it may be changed by a moderator.

When creating a new thread, please use punctuation accordingly. Multiple exclamation marks, question marks and full stops not only make the forum look poorly presented, but don't actually make any sense. Thread titles like "Help!!!!!!!" or "Is this a bug??????" should be avoided.

Pointless rant threads are very likely to be closed as they offer nothing to the boards. This is not clamping down on criticism, but clamping down on spam-type posts that offer nothing. We welcome all critical comments of a constructive nature, and if you feel there is a problem in the game articulate it in a non-ranty manner and it will be treated seriously. Random outpourings of hate and frustration will most likely be closed.

Abuse:

Abuse is not tolerated in GD and myself and Neji have noticed a few occasions where people have been labelling other users idiots, morons, etc, and this has to stop now. If you can't bring yourself to come up with a constructive argument when you disagree with another poster, feel free to ignore them. In fact, you can set users to your ignore list, meaning you won't see any of their posts. Far better than responding with abuse. I will remind you that abuse and extreme abuse carry infraction points which can ultimately lead to a ban from this site.

Swearing:

Again, swearing in GD is not tolerated. Remember, please, that we have younger members in GD and this is also the first port of call for many new visitors, so let's cut out the swearing. For clarification, I consider that ****** still constitutes swearing in a certain context (i.e. almost always), as does Neji. We will judge each incident on a case-by-case basis, but again, swearing can lead to infraction points and, ultimately, a ban.

Spamming:

All the mods have a busy job here, and let's not forget we're unpaid volunteers, with real jobs, helping out on one of the busiest forums for computer games. This site generates thousands and thousands of new posts every day, so we would ask you to cut out the spam. For future reference: "in before the lock", "it's your tactics", "+1 1010101" and their ilk will result in 10 point infractions for spamming. Consider that you've now been warned.

Pictures/Videos:

On a related note, although we're not all on 56Kbps dialup anymore, let's save on bandwidth and quit with the pointless pictures. Even if that fat guy does look a bit like a thumb, GD is not the place to post it. Similarly, Rick Astley is not amusing, so any links to YouTube or whatever that are pointless will be treated as spam and will be dealt with as such.

Adult content:

Again, this forum is frequented by our younger members and I don't think it's appropriate to read a post about what a user did with his girlfriend while playing FM - particularly if it's lewd. This is a public forum, and such posts will be considered inappropriate and may result in a warning or an infraction. New: Also, posting a link to porn will result in an automatic miniumum 30 points infraction which will bring a minimum of a one week ban.

Player naming:

Player naming is not banned per se in GD, but there are rules of thumb to consider. If you are just talking about a player generally, that tends not to be a problem, particularly if that player is relatively well known. However, many posters in GD prefer not to know who the hidden gems are in the game, preferring to find those out for themselves. Therefore, you should refrain from mentioning those players by name, or recommending that people buy them unless you indicate as such in the thread title or use spoiler tags. The Good Player forum is for all such discussion about hidden gems in the game.

CA & PA:

Please don't post the Current Ability and Potential Ability stats for any players. Thanks.

Database Discussion - Players and Clubs:

If you want to talk about the data within the game, e.g. players, clubs and whether or not they are overrated, or should have different attributes then this is not to be done in GD. It should be done in the relevant thread in the Data Issues Forum. Most clubs have a thread already, so please make sure you find the correct thread before starting a new one.

Infractions:

A warning = 0 points, but serves a reminder on your account as to your behaviour

Most infractions carry 5 or 10 infraction points, but we can add custom infraction points where we deem fit.

30 infraction points = a 1 week ban

60 infraction points = a 2 week ban

90 infraction points = a 1 month ban

and so on. Sometimes people ask why an infraction for abuse warrants the same 10 point penalty as an infraction for, say, spamming. It's just the system we apply, and it's the same in football, where often you will see a reckless and dangerous challenge met with the same yellow card that can be dished out for over celebrating or time wasting. We do have the option of custom infractions, and extreme abuse can warrant 30 points (or more in extreme cases), but overall, this is the system. It's a three strikes and you're out (for a week) system, and for the most part it's a much more open and transparent system than the one we used to have. Hope that clears things up.

Mod decisions:

If you disagree with a mod decision, you should email mods [@] sigames.com. You shouldn't create a thread about it in this forum. If you want to complain about one of my decisions, feel free to PM me.

I hope that is all clear. I'll keep this thread unlocked, and pinned, and if anyone has any questions or wants to clarify something they can in this thread. If this thread descends into drivel, arguing, a 'Free <username>' campaign, a GD vs OTF debate or whatever I'll close it and delete the posts.

Cheers,

GM

Glad that thats been cleared up, you finally looked at the forums I see.

Well done.

Yep, thanks for posting this, some people need to be reminded of these rules ..

Fair shout Gillsman, good on ya for doing this

Good work GillsMan, glad to see that we now have a definite set of rules for this forum.

I hope people notice this thread. Really pleased to see that it looks like spamming will be clamped down on. Far too much of it lately.

Fair Play to you GillsMan, good to see action will be taken

Thanks for this Gils, some of the spam is very annoying.

Will infractions be handed out for those images people are posting, eg the fat guy with no ears or facepalm? Both pointless and amazingly annoying.

Well done, it will be nice to see less spamming and more clamping down on the persistent offenders.

Thanks for this Gils, some of the spam is very annoying.

Will infractions be handed out for those images people are posting, eg the fat guy with no ears or facepalm? Both pointless and amazingly annoying.

It would seem that warnings are being handed out, rather than infractions. I think is fair as things stand. But if it doesn't put a stop to it, hopefully they'll starting giving infractions for it.

Thanks for this Gils, some of the spam is very annoying.

Will infractions be handed out for those images people are posting, eg the fat guy with no ears or facepalm? Both pointless and amazingly annoying.

I would have thought so. Good to see a definitive 'guide' on the rules of this forum as there is nothing worse when someone is spamming threads that contain useful information and threads like this getting closed as a result. Wp GM.

Thanks for this Gils, some of the spam is very annoying.

Will infractions be handed out for those images people are posting, eg the fat guy with no ears or facepalm? Both pointless and amazingly annoying.

Yup, good point and I've added it to the first thread.

Yup, good point and I've added it to the first thread.

Thank God. Cheers for making that clear for everyone GillsMan, those pictures were really starting to grate

I remember when i first discovered these forums a few year back and they were great. Users helped each other and there was little abuse, but over the past few months there has been alot of bickering here. There seem to be people getting alot stick more often and 9 out of 10 its experienced members who are doing it to the new members. some people think they know it all and have the right to give others abuse. Theres an awful sour atmosphere now This place seems to have turned into a school playground and its full of bullies.

I think something should be done! I dont know what exactly, the mods are doing there job but maybe there aint enough for the volume of traffic on here recently or maybe it should be 1 warning then ban for a while.

I think, if you look in any of the decent threads, you'll find people being overwhelmingly helpful. To be honest, the experienced members you see today are far friendlier than those of a few years back.

Just so you know, threads like this tend to get closed. It might be worth posting your thoughts in GillsMan's sticky at the top of the forum.

Group hug?

TBH mate I don't think you are one to comment on the state of the forums given that you posted this thread where you blatantly ignored the notice at the top of forums about the patch. People posting repeatedly about the patch is one the main things that is dragging this forum down at the moment

The forums are 1,000,000 better now than they were a year ago.

Hardly noticed any unpleasantness here (in four months )

I find people only argue if:

a) distasteful/controversial joke

b) people start a thread without searching

c) some nutter with an attitude deliberately stirs trouble

I think there are many helpful people on the forums now to be honest and don't think there is a sour atmosphere. There is always going to be a few people that may behave in the wrong way but more often than not people are helpful here.

As long as people don't create threads stating "whens the patch" the members tend to be helpful to one another, people sometimes don't read the rules before posting

Yup, good point and I've added it to the first thread.

Thanks:thup:

'Even if that fat guy does look a bit like a thumb'

Made me laugh:D

I think he's mistaking people's frustration at the same questions being asked about 1,000 times a day as bullying. The majority of regular users of this forum these days are extremely helpful. Look at the likes of ahmufcwafc and jod123. Someone asks a decent question and they answer within seconds! It's their fault that people like me don't get the chance to be helpful!

I think he's mistaking people's frustration at the same questions being asked about 1,000 times a day with bullying. The majority of regular users of this forum these days are extremely helpful. Look at the likes of ahmufcwafc and jod123. Someone asks a decent question and they answer within seconds! It's their fault that people like me don't get the chance to be helpful!

That is very frustrating. You notice a thread no-one has replied and you know you can help the OP in, and in the 2 seconds it takes to type out your reply, Jod or Alan has stealthed their way in before you. Happens to me way too often. Although I did get in before Jod earlier on today, nice to get a small victory over him every so often

Firstly its good to see you back GillsMan.

And like the others have said good work on the clarification of the rules. I just hope that people will observe and respect this thread and it will improve the atmosphere and entice more people to engage in conversation rather than spam.

Great post Gillsman. Very well delivered. If people cant follow this, they don't deserve to be on the forums

I think he's mistaking people's frustration at the same questions being asked about 1,000 times a day with bullying. The majority of regular users of this forum these days are extremely helpful. Look at the likes of ahmufcwafc and jod123. Someone asks a decent question and they answer within seconds! It's their fault that people like me don't get the chance to be helpful!

I agree, those two thugs are ruining this forum

I agree, those two thugs are ruining this forum

Have you not read the rules. Calling them "thugs" is blatent abuse. I'll be reporting you

To say that people might get punished even if a swear word is starred out is frankly pathetic.

What possible purpose can that serve? Who are these people being offended by asterisks?

Surely the rules exists not just for the sake of having rules but to prevent people being offended or mistreated. Punishment for typing words that don't even ever appear on anyone else's screen is like something from a mad dystopian novel.

If you don't have a vocabulary extensive enough to not use a swearword in a conversation, "starred out" or not, then the likelihood of you appreciating when a swearword is used in jest, warrants the fact that all swearing should be outlawed.

*Please note - me saying "you" is a generalization, and does not directly reflect you as a person.

Hopefully new posters and regulars alike will read this, I only just noticed it now. Clear and to the point.

Although it is of course frustrating having to answer multiple patch threads in one day, "frying pan responses" aren't helpful and are instead juvenile. By "frying pan responses", by the way, I mean repliers metaphorically hitting the OP over the head with a frying pan for asking a stupid question. Generally, I'm in agreement with you and said tone isn't one that I like on the forum.

To be honest, when there is around 15 new patch threads a day people will understandably get annoyed.

To say that people might get punished even is a swear word is starred out is frankly pathetic.

What possible purpose can that serve? Who are these people being offended by asterisks?

Surely the rules exists not just for the sake of having rules but to prevent people being offended or mistreated. Punishment for typing words that don't even ever appear on anyone else's screen is like something from a mad dystopian novel.

An example of a word that does not appear is this - " ". That meaning, you do not type anything, if you do not understand.

Having starred out "words" shows an intention to swear and is thus rightly penalised in the GD forums for the reasons GillsMan has already laid out in his post above.

And echoing others, good post this. I actually also find the act of flaming and typing pointless argumentative posts that have little or no relevancy to the original issues started by OPs quite offensive as well.

To be honest, when there is around 15 new patch threads a day people will understandably get annoyed.

Especially when it says at the top of the page that threads asking for the release date will be closed

To say that people might get punished even if a swear word is starred out is frankly pathetic.

What possible purpose can that serve? Who are these people being offended by asterisks?

Surely the rules exists not just for the sake of having rules but to prevent people being offended or mistreated. Punishment for typing words that don't even ever appear on anyone else's screen is like something from a mad dystopian novel.

It's all about context though. I'm loathe to provide an example, but I don't see the difference between someone typing "f******" and typing the word out in full, and I don't think too many other people would either. In the same way that you wouldn't allow your kid (hopefully) to spell out a swear word instead of saying it, we don't allow you to asterisk a swear word out instead of typing it. You can go ahead and defend your right to swear, but this is a publicly available forum and certain rules need to apply. And I didn't say it was an automatic infraction, but it can result in an infraction depending on the context in which it's used (which goes for all swearing, starred out or not).

To be honest, when there is around 15 new patch threads a day people will understandably get annoyed.

Personally I don't see why threads like these can't simply be left alone. A moderator will come along soon enough and close the thread, why cause unneccesary aggrevation by posting "frying pan responses"? It's the attitude of the senior posters and it is already evident that junior posters are following suite and it's something that I think should be reversed.

If you don't have a vocabulary extensive enough to not use a swearword in a conversation, "starred out" or not, then the likelihood of you appreciating when a swearword is used in jest, warrants the fact that all swearing should be outlawed.

*Please note - me saying "you" is a generalization, and does not directly reflect you as a person.

Removing the clauses from your sentence, your point reads - 'if you have a limited vocabulary then the chance of you appreciating if a swearword is used in jest warrants the outlawing of all swearing'. Sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

The vast majority of the points raised by Gillsman are common sense and are aimed at making the forums run more smoothly and at making this place better for us all but when you start saying people will be punished for posting a string of astericks then you really do move into jobsworth territory.

Personally I don't see why threads like these can't simply be left alone. A moderator will come along soon enough and close the thread, why cause unneccesary aggrevation by posting "frying pan responses"? It's the attitude of the senior posters and it is already evident that junior posters are following suite and it's something that I think should be reversed.

I think this is a very important post. Patch threads should just be ignored or replied to by saying there is no news or end of the month etc. A mod will see the thread and it will be closed - posting inflammatory comments doesn't help anyone.

Removing the clauses from your sentence, your point reads - 'if you have a limited vocabulary then the chance of you appreciating if a swearword is used in jest warrants the outlawing of all swearing'. Sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

The vast majority of the points raised by Gillsman are common sense and are aimed at making the forums run more smoothly and at making this place better for us all but when you start saying people will be punished for posting a string of astericks then you really do move into jobsworth territory.

So in your opinion it is fine for kids to see supposedly mature adults staring out swearing as this is the same as typing the word out. You must remember that it isn't the Mods who set the rules but the administrators.

In my opinion the rules are right for a public forum such as these which are frequented by people of all ages. Also GillsMan and the other Mods have volunteered for their roles in the forum and also hold down jobs, so i'd like to say a big Thank you to all the mods on the forums

Personally I don't see why threads like these can't simply be left alone. A moderator will come along soon enough and close the thread, why cause unneccesary aggrevation by posting "frying pan responses"? It's the attitude of the senior posters and it is already evident that junior posters are following suite and it's something that I think should be reversed.

This is a sentiment I share. There is absolutely no point in contributing to threads such as those, knowing fully well that there is no meaningful discussion to be had.

If one were to feel strongly against a distasteful thread, simply report it and a mod would hopefully address the poster and close the thread. No need to stoke any flames by posting 'witty' one-liners.

From what I have seen, there have been far too many members, both senior and junior, who are simply too eager to jump into such threads.

I've just deleted a load of "state of the board" posts. Apologies if yours was deleted by mistake, but it's quite unusual for us mods to leave these types of thread opened, and I'm happy to answer queries about the rules defined in the OP, but other chat is probably not overly relevant here.

Cheers,

GM

It's all about context though. I'm loathe to provide an example, but I don't see the difference between someone typing "f******" and typing the word out in full, and I don't think too many other people would either. In the same way that you wouldn't allow your kid (hopefully) to spell out a swear word instead of saying it, we don't allow you to asterisk a swear word out instead of typing it. You can go ahead and defend your right to swear, but this is a publicly available forum and certain rules need to apply. And I didn't say it was an automatic infraction, but it can result in an infraction depending on the context in which it's used (which goes for all swearing, starred out or not).

A kid spelling out a swearword isn't the same though is it. The whole point I'm making is that the word isn't spelt out. Would I punish a kid for saying "star, star, star, star"?

And I'm not defending the right to swear, I'm saying that **** does not a swearword make. (Note, I just typed those asterisks myself, would that be borne in mind at the disciplinary committee?)

I'm really not looking for a row on this. I just wanted to make the point that I think you're going too far on that specific point.

I think this is a very important post. Patch threads should just be ignored or replied to by saying there is no news or end of the month etc. A mod will see the thread and it will be closed - posting inflammatory comments doesn't help anyone.

:thup:

Maybe this will work if enough of us "sign up" to this I think we simply quote the information from the notices and then leave the thread rather than a cant you search, scroll etc mentality (that we are all guilty of, including me :o)

I've just deleted a load of "state of the board" posts. Apologies if yours was deleted by mistake, but it's quite unusual for us mods to leave these types of thread opened, and I'm happy to answer queries about the rules defined in the OP, but other chat is probably not overly relevant here.

Cheers,

GM

Sorry about all that Gills, I admit that that was probably my doing so I will hold my hands up and apologise from detracting from your thread

Aren't you displaying a superior attitude yourself, though? Basically saying you're above frustration and overreaction. I rarely post in patch question threads these days, but I have to restrain myself because frustration gets the better of me and I admit that. I tend to only respond to "in before the lock" in threads like that these days. And that's because I genuinely want to know why people do it and I can never get a satisfactory answer.

Sorry, I feel you've decontextualised me, so I assume this is the post to which you are replying?:

I understand what you mean and I don't like it either, and I have the names of the users in question in mind. Although I can't comment on the forums in any real period of time ago beyond 1 year, recently there has been a feeling of superiority among some members in my opinion. I feel that the replies to which you are referring come in response to threads that they deem stupid, such as new patch threads.

On reflection, superiority wasn't the term for which I was going. Superiority would imply that said users would react politely, perhaps even jokingly, if one of their own was to start such a thread; be that true or not, the idea I was going for was that these users feel that it is their job to enforce the rules, and while it is true to some extent that users should enforce the rules, I myself don't feel that I have the responsibility or the gravitas to act in such a way, i.e. respond purely to remind of the rules.

Edit: I'm not sure if this post still belongs in this thread.

Here we have an excellent post made by a moderator brought about by the constant bickering on this Forum and people start bickering on it! Unreal!

One thing the OP didn't mention is that this Forum is associated with SI and SEGA and they have a corporate name to protect, a Forum full of insults and swearing, asterixed out or spelt in full doesn't reflect well on these two companies corporate image.

The other thing that maybe deliberately was left unsaid by Gillsman, mainly because he's a decent bloke and wants a friendly Forum, but what he probably wanted to say was "if people don't like the rules here , go elsewhere"

These are the rules , like it or not, live with it or leave.

Here we have an excellent post made by a moderator brought about by the constant bickering on this Forum and people start bickering on it! Unreal!

Most of the bickering came from a thread that was merged with this one to be fair.

A kid spelling out a swearword isn't the same though is it. The whole point I'm making is that the word isn't spelt out. Would I punish a kid for saying "star, star, star, star"?

And I'm not defending the right to swear, I'm saying that **** does not a swearword make. (Note, I just typed those asterisks myself, would that be borne in mind at the disciplinary committee?)

I'm really not looking for a row on this. I just wanted to make the point that I think you're going too far on that specific point.

I think it's just semantics though. I've seen your posts and I know you're clearly an intelligent chap, so I can get where you're coming from, but tbh I think you know that there's a big difference between a kid coming up and saying "star star star star" and me typing out "f******". In the written form, f******* is a well known substitute for a well known swear word. The effect is the same, you've sworn (in effect).

To clarify, the stars in your posts don't constitute swearing (because of the context), but the stars in my post do (because of the context). I'm not going to infract myself, however, because it was unavoidable to explain my point (and I can't infract myself).

Sorry, I feel you've decontextualised me, so I assume this is the post to which you are replying?:

On reflection, superiority wasn't the term for which I was going. Superiority would imply that said users would react politely, perhaps even jokingly, if one of their own was to start such a thread; be that true or not, the idea I was going for was that these users feel that it is their job to enforce the rules, and while it is true to some extent that users should enforce the rules, I myself don't feel that I have the responsibility or the gravitas to act in such a way, i.e. respond purely to remind of the rules.

Edit: I'm not sure if this post still belongs in this thread.

Posts have been deleted and the whole thing is getting a bit muddled. Didn't mean to decontextualise you anything like that. It would be a shame to take this thread away from its original topic so I guess it's time to stop talking about the state of the forums. For what it's worth, I understood where you were coming from in your posts.

Ok i'll behave from now.

sorry wally x:thup: