Unhappy players - Give us the right answers ALL the time please.

I know the issue of unhappy players has been raised in numerous threads, but the point I wish to make, hasn't as far as I can see, been made. And it's this. When running a squad to cope with league, Europe, Cups etc. rotation is required. However, it's clear that playing in the League Cup, (even the final) doesn't register as a First Team appearance as far as an unhappy player is concerned. So that, in my view, should be changed.

But my main point is this, when a player comes to you initially to complain about lack of playing time, you are given numerous answers, such as, Walker is playing out of his skin, it's a long season, or you are part of squad rotation etc. One of these will always work first time. However, given the fact as I've already mentioned, that some games don't appear to count in the players' head, the next time he comes to you, you are suddenly confronted with either promising him game time, telling him he's not good enough etc.

If, "you are part of the squad rotation system", was a good enough answer first time round, why can't that option be present every time? Why does it have to escalate and force either a promise or a confrontation? Why aren't all the answers provided when ever you are dealing with a player? It seems an artificial way to give the player unnecessary difficulties.

All my comments are referring to rotation/back up players not contracted First Team players who would have more right to be upset if not playing.

It doesn't have to be either a promise or a confrontation. Just deal with it on a case by case basis.

Had a young player come to me yesterday, complaining about first team football. He's a Hot Prospect and just reached 2 stars CA, so I can see why he'd want to go as he's now as good as he's going to get on training alone.

The problem is that I'm using him as a backup, so he does get the odd game. I simply told him that I'm the manager, so it's up to me to decide and he's not going. He accepted it without any issues. I told him the truth and he has a decent personality.

People seem to run into issues when they're trying to 'game' the system by picking 'the right answer' instead of just dealing with it properly, like a real person.

FWIW, all games count. Some just obviously counts more, like League and Champions League games.

I think something that often gets overlooked as well is your avatar's personality / attributes.

If you lack in certain areas (eg., Discipline & Man Management) players can be more confrontational towards you and less willing to accept what you say, especially if they have poor personalities as well.

I think something that often gets overlooked as well is your avatar's personality / attributes.

If you lack in certain areas (eg., Discipline & Man Management) players can be more confrontational towards you and less willing to accept what you say, especially if they have poor personalities as well.

Reputation also counts, as it should.

The issues only tend to become amplified if you're not doing well - which is also more fitting. It's a lot easier for a player to become more difficult to handle over a lack of playing time if you're 5 or 6 games without a win. Most (human) players will naturally gravitate towards in-game players with good mental attributes, players with ambitions and desires to do well which does tend to mean even if they're happier moving with a lesser role initially they will want more eventually as it fits their personality.

It's also a mental thing. I kept thinking I could keep 23 world class players happy. But why would that be the case?

The moment I started to realize that I could not keep everyone happy, the game became a lot more enjoyable. I just sold a 22 World class player for 70 million, that I had no intention on selling and in the end I felt more relaxed because my other 5 world beaters who were even better were happy and getting the time they deserved.

It doesn't have to be either a promise or a confrontation. Just deal with it on a case by case basis.

Had a young player come to me yesterday, complaining about first team football. He's a Hot Prospect and just reached 2 stars CA, so I can see why he'd want to go as he's now as good as he's going to get on training alone.

The problem is that I'm using him as a backup, so he does get the odd game. I simply told him that I'm the manager, so it's up to me to decide and he's not going. He accepted it without any issues. I told him the truth and he has a decent personality.

People seem to run into issues when they're trying to 'game' the system by picking 'the right answer' instead of just dealing with it properly, like a real person.

FWIW, all games count. Some just obviously counts more, like League and Champions League games.

You see, that's my point here, which I sense some aren't getting. Deal with it like a real person. If I told the player two months ago he's part of the rotation policy, when he complains again, having played in every other game, albeit League Cup or FA Cup, he's still part of the rotation policy, but that answer is no longer available. I either have to promise him playing time, offer to loan him, tell him he hasn't got what it takes or I'm the boss, do as your told. Anyone of which produces an unsatisfactory outcome.

It's not that I'm unable to deal with this situation, I would just like the right answer to be available to me. I see no reason why it shouldn't be there, as in real life.

I think something that often gets overlooked as well is your avatar's personality / attributes.

If you lack in certain areas (eg., Discipline & Man Management) players can be more confrontational towards you and less willing to accept what you say, especially if they have poor personalities as well.

Just on that point, I took over Barcelona mid-season, won the Europa League and La Liga. The following two seasons won CL and La Liga. I'm now in my first season at Spurs and have just won the League Cup and should win the League. So my reputation in all areas is very good.

You see, that's my point here, which I sense some aren't getting. Deal with it like a real person. If I told the player two months ago he's part of the rotation policy, when he complains again, having played in every other game, albeit League Cup or FA Cup, he's still part of the rotation policy, but that answer is no longer available. I either have to promise him playing time, offer to loan him, tell him he hasn't got what it takes or I'm the boss, do as your told. Anyone of which produces an unsatisfactory outcome.

It's not that I'm unable to deal with this situation, I would just like the right answer to be available to me. I see no reason why it shouldn't be there, as in real life.

If you promised him to be part of the rotation policy and you're giving him games like FA and League Cup games, then you can surely see why he's complaining again?

As said, it also depends a lot on your stature in the game. I just told a player (youngster) that it is way too early for him to be starting games (which is very true as he's not up to par) and he accepted. Seems reasonable. He's ambitious, so again, you can see that he's eager to get somewhere, but professional enough to accept the truth.

Edit: I appreciate you're trying to get straight answers, but every situation is different. It is impossible to give a stock answer for your question. Your reputation, the squad make-up (particularly how good the complaining player is), his personality, squad status, recent matches etc all play a part.

You see, that's my point here, which I sense some aren't getting. Deal with it like a real person. If I told the player two months ago he's part of the rotation policy, when he complains again, having played in every other game, albeit League Cup or FA Cup, he's still part of the rotation policy, but that answer is no longer available. I either have to promise him playing time, offer to loan him, tell him he hasn't got what it takes or I'm the boss, do as your told. Anyone of which produces an unsatisfactory outcome.

It's not that I'm unable to deal with this situation, I would just like the right answer to be available to me. I see no reason why it shouldn't be there, as in real life.

Only playing cup games doesn't make him part of a rotation policy, it makes him part of the cup squad & there is a chat option for that. As you've not met your promise the player's unhappiness has now escalated to the next level which is why the option to offer him rotation starts is no longer available, you've already broken that promise so why would you use it again or why would the player be content to accept such a promise?

As others have already said the idea of a right & wrong approach does not exactly apply here, interactions are nuanced & what worked for one player in a specific conversation might not work for that same player in another chat or with a different player in a similar discussion.

The best advice I can give is to view each player as an individual & to pay attention to the report card about their mental traits, how they react to team talks, their body language on the pitch & the way the deal with the media as these will all offer clues to how they might react when you have a conversation with them.

Another forum complaint I see a fair bit is that after a player happily drops a concern about first team time without any promise to increase their time in the team they end up complaining again a few months later, this is because the player will still want to play more & they have played no more frequently than before, in this case the original chat should be seen as an indication that the player is ambitious & although they've been appeased it is only a short term fix & a good man-manager will start to use the player a little more frequently or start to look at moving them on if they are too far down the pecking order to get near the first team & in those cases it's always better to tell the player that in the first or second conversation & not attempt to fob them off with lies about playing future playing time.

Also something briefly alluded to, your squad size or balance is wrong.

Put simply if you are not a rotational manager you need a smaller squad,

I would imagine a lot of FMers will amass a squad with players to address every injury permutation and where injuries don't occur have good qualiy players kicking their heels.

A couple of other tips for playing time unhappiness is to check the squad depth report, if a player is complaining about a lack of first team action have a look at the squad depth for the position that they can play & they are close to the current ability of the regular starts then it's a good bet they they think they're just as good & worth of playing just as often & if their potential is significantly higher than the current ability of the regular start they could be looking to get a chance to prove themselves by getting more playing time.

Another hint will come from the backroom advice to change a player's squad status, if your coaching team consistently suggest that a player should be on a higher squad status it should act as a clear indication that it is a good idea to start using that player more often, even if you do not agree with the suggestion of increasing the actual squad status.

Also worth mentioning that none of the tips I've mentioned have come from insider chat with SI staff, it's all common sense stuff that comes from accepting the changes that were made to this part of the game on FM15 & realising that the old system was so thin on detail that we were all able to build super squads with no consequences other than a slightly increased wage costs.

I agree with a lot of the above advice but I wish the replies available and end results of conversations weren't so black and white.

I think in real life a manager might say to a player "l'll try to get you more involved over the next few months but I can't gaurantee it. Please be patient until the next transfer window and if you are still unhappy we can review again then".

Sure I understand that might not be enough for some players. However, I'd like to at least have the option to say that before having the choice of caving in or labelling him unprofessional. As I said above that is too black and white and overly confrontational.

Player interaction is over dramatic.

''You are going to regret this, you'll have a mutiny on your hands''

It's like a crap American TV programme.

I usually just transfer list anyone that comes looking for more game time.

"I'll try find you a new club as soon as I can"

I don't want to start a new thread, i got only one question about first team football. What games count as first team football? League, CL/EL, domestic Cups, Friendlies?

I don't want to start a new thread, i got only one question about first team football. What games count as first team football? League, CL/EL, domestic Cups, Friendlies?

Take this with a massive pinch of salt as I'm potentially way off the mark, but if I'm remembering rightly a first team player would be expecting to start in something like more than 60% of senior games. I seem to recall some being quite surprised it was that lenient, but with first team & key players its mostly about the starts sub appearances have very little weight to their expectations.

Not sure if you use for it anything else, but the IGE is great for these interactions.

Only playing cup games doesn't make him part of a rotation policy, it makes him part of the cup squad & there is a chat option for that. As you've not met your promise the player's unhappiness has now escalated to the next level which is why the option to offer him rotation starts is no longer available, you've already broken that promise so why would you use it again or why would the player be content to accept such a promise?

As others have already said the idea of a right & wrong approach does not exactly apply here, interactions are nuanced & what worked for one player in a specific conversation might not work for that same player in another chat or with a different player in a similar discussion.

The best advice I can give is to view each player as an individual & to pay attention to the report card about their mental traits, how they react to team talks, their body language on the pitch & the way the deal with the media as these will all offer clues to how they might react when you have a conversation with them.

Another forum complaint I see a fair bit is that after a player happily drops a concern about first team time without any promise to increase their time in the team they end up complaining again a few months later, this is because the player will still want to play more & they have played no more frequently than before, in this case the original chat should be seen as an indication that the player is ambitious & although they've been appeased it is only a short term fix & a good man-manager will start to use the player a little more frequently or start to look at moving them on if they are too far down the pecking order to get near the first team & in those cases it's always better to tell the player that in the first or second conversation & not attempt to fob them off with lies about playing future playing time.

Despite my own view I've read a lot of useful advice, so thanks chaps. Just to put my situation into perspective, I have what I consider to be my first choice team, which I will play in the 'big' games. I also have eight or nine back up/rotation players, (as contracted). Some are 18-21, some a bit older. I play them rotationally in games I think I can win without using my first team. So before January, they will play some league games, League Cup, CL or EL games, which if I plan ahead carefully with future fixtures, they will play almost every other game.

After January they will play more league games, as if I'm in CL/EL I will generally play my first team in Europe. They will also play FA Cup games. By this time, however, I'll have two or three complaining. If I get enough time, with the extra league games, I can give them enough game time to resolve the complaints. The problem really gets messy, however, if I get knocked out of the cups and Europe, and need to play my strongest team in the league to make European qualification.

I understand where everyone is coming from with this, and not every player can be pacified, but I still think all the answer options should be available to the gamer, not reducing the answer options the more he complains. Which is the point I've been trying to make by this post.

You could have the option but what's the point when it will never see a positive result because you've already used it & failed to deliver on it?

Its a pattern Ive found, any player, about 10 games in the first complaint, even if they play, 1 player complained after 10 games even playing 6 and 2 sub, first time rotation, the second after about 20 games - ok, I will sell you, they say its ok, I'm happy to stay, 3rd ok, I'll sell you. By then thats it. Some players might be happy for a loan move if thats an option. Repeat that each time for every player.

Its a bit stupid sometimes how they did it this year and how it works, I had a player he complained about not playing, went through the 3 chats. Wanted a loan move so I promised to loan him, kept my promise, 3 loan bids come in I accept the best 2, reject 1, but accepting 2 and rejecting that 1 somehow equals me to break my promise, so he kicks up a right fuss and the whole team kick off, the media gets involved, I chose the option that said 'this will be resolved soon enough,' Me thinking I'm going to sell him, or its only a matter of time before he realises theres 2 other bids and he gets his loan. Some how that equals a promise to play him in the first team, What? So that was another promise broken I didnt even make, and another team fury, got to love how crazy this game is

got to love how crazy this game is

It's a feature with good intentions. Unfortunately, it only works well enough to satisfy a certain type of player (of FM, that is). Everyone else either gets frustrated by it or just works around it (IGE).

I see what they are trying to do but I cant really see anyway for it to work, no body really wants to have things like this down to a lucky pick of a mouse button out of a cryptic selection. Nobody wants to sit and google the right selection and order of multichoice or trial and error it, then repeat the same motions every time it crops up. It should be a bit more transparent and make much more sense to the point you really have to wonder should it be something we do at all, some things that cant be simulated would be best left to the imagination rather than attempted and have a negative effect.

I see what they are trying to do but I cant really see anyway for it to work, no body really wants to have things like this down to a lucky pick of a mouse button out of a cryptic selection. Nobody wants to sit and google the right selection and order of multichoice or trial and error it, then repeat the same motions every time it crops up. It should be a bit more transparent and make much more sense to the point you really have to wonder should it be something we do at all, some things that cant be simulated would be best left to the imagination rather than attempted and have a negative effect.

The option process is quite straight forward if you tell the player what your actual intentions are I've found. There is no trial and error to it, you either say something a player can agree with or disagree with. It's not all sunshine and roses, if its happening more frequently then its down to your squad management ultimately.

There is football manager touch if you want a more streamlined, less simulation more action approach which is fantastic for network games and quick games for trying out tactics etc. As well as if you don't want to deal with more elements involved in the game.

It feels more like at this point, while the system isn't perfect, you're projecting your failed attempts at trying to game it and find the cheat-sheet shortcuts to prevent it being an issue as being one of its failings.

That's why it's not about luck, it's about paying attention to your players & then approaching conversation in a a way that suits your personality & their's. Of course there will be times when what you think will logically work won't & vice-versa but that's the same as irl. If you're not a fan of the additional depth of player interactions & the consequences then FM-Touch could be more to your liking but as it is for every game dev in industry you're not going to please everyone who plays your games & if you d not find any of the FM products on offer enjoyable then the best advice is to make constructive suggestion before heading off to play another game that you will enjoy & come back to try the demo of the next release to see whether you like the changes.

Of course this isn't to say that the feature needs polish, it clearly does & I have raised a number of issue with the dev & testing teams, most of which relate the pace at which players go from happy to raging (much like an FM'er D) ) & the immersion breaks that do happen in the conversation plus players being too quick to drop complaints linked to interested clubs only to be unhappy when the next transfer window opens which can give off bipolar vibe & become very easy to game when looking to retain or poach players however I trust that they will get these annoyances sorted.

I think you are assuming just cos I'm criticising a feature the only possibly reason is because I must be failing at it. I know which options and in what order to pick, still doesnt make it great imo.

I think you are assuming just cos I'm criticising a feature the only possibly reason is because I must be failing at it. I know which options and in what order to pick, still doesnt make it great imo.

I think you miss the point.....

The point is that you shouldn't be going at the problem with this perspective of picking the right answer to 'win' the 'mini game' ...

Just answer as you would to a real person as a manager.

You talk about the 'right answer' and googling the correct answers, but you miss the point that you should be just answering honestly to how it is and how you perceive the player.

A work around that ive found that greatly reduces the amount of players complaining about first team football is when starting a new save set your manager profile up with 20 for discipline, is 100% less frustrating now!

Replicating human interaction is obviously tough for any programmer. Much tougher than replicating real life tactics in a match engine. With this obvious weakness in mind, I feel SI do need to tone down this feature of the game.

In real life, a Saido Betahino situation is rare. That's why it gets so much press attention. Although FM16 is a lot more realistic in this regard than FM15, still every team seems to have at least one Berahino every year.

Even if you think a lot of these situations happen behind closed doors, and yes they probably do, how much team mate outrage is there? I can't think of one WBA player who had publicly supported Berahino. Even if they do, it's not something the press have reported.

And TBH I use the Berahino example as it's pretty much the only high profile case like this. If there are other cases, that means most are resolved amicably behind closed doors. Or alternatively, the player is "slightly disappointed" but will agree to disagree to review later.

I've found a cheaty workaround on this "issue" with players wanting more first-team opportunities that you can't deliver, but want to keep them around. So basically, when a player approaches you with this issue, there is an option to tell him that there is another player, who is in great form and you can't drop him at the minute. Usually this works most of the time, but it's only temporary, because the player comes back sooner or later, asking the same and this option is no longer available. So what you have to do next is to offer him a loan move as soon as possible. Usually the interacted player reacts well to this proposal and a promise appears. So after the chat just make the player available for loan. If you go back to the promises tab, you will see that the player is pleased that you're trying to loan him out, as you promised. Usually the promise expiry date is the end of the nearest transfer window. What you have to do next is just to decline every loan offer you receive for the player, but do not remove him from the loan list. When the window closes, the player automatically agrees to extend the deadline of the promise until the end of the next transfer window. And so on, probably you can keep him for a good few years without him being mad at you, because there are no broken promises. There is one downfall with this cheat, and it's that the player won't accept any contract extension, while the promise is active. So be sure you have tighten up all your backups' contracts that you want to keep, before they become unhappy. And when their expiry date comes to the end, just sell them for good money or start playing them regularly until they drop this issue. Then you can negotiate contract extension and keep them on the bench for another decade.

I always find it strange that people complain about the AI not being clever enough and signing the right players, then on the flip side people are complaining when they're (as in the users) stock-piling the better players, not necessarily giving them first team football then being upset when the players become unhappy.

A large part of player unhappiness is to stop players stockpiling and signing a large number of first team players when realistically you can't really have more than eleven players who see themselves as first team. Even then, if you have eleven first team players, it means you can have zero rotation, as those first team players won't ever expect to be rotated out.

Balance your squad with the players you need and you'll get less players getting unhappy. If a player wants to leave the club for a better one, it's realistic to football - it happens all the time where a player outgrows a club. Modric and Bale at Spurs, Ronaldo at Man Utd, Hummels at Dortmund. Quite often these clubs come to an arrangement with the players that they can leave the following season. The only time it 'gets out' like Berahino or Cabaye is when the manager and club attempt to not back down. You can win players over, but often letting the player go and reinvesting is the best way to keep harmony and improve your squad.

I understand there are frustrations with the system and it doesn't always work as logically as you'd expect but as mentioned above AI is difficult to get right when replicating human behaviour. It's something we've improved with every version and hope to improve further as the game progresses.

I think part of it comes from the fact that as you play the game most people - based on their posts of their squads on these forums and such - seem to be of the mindset that ultimately loading a squad with 160+ CA players is the way forward. I noticed after starting a fresh network game (since its more competitive between mates the normal playstyle goes out the window) a few days ago after an injury to Dani Alves I was using Douglas as my rotation in player. I don't know the CA of Douglas, but I do know I can get a player of a similar CA to Dani Alves and keep them both happy quite easily. Sergi Samper and Sergi Roberto and possibly even Rafinha are also the kind of players on the list to be culled. It'll be quite easy to keep happy Busquets, Iniesta, Rakitic and Pogba, even in a formation that only makes use of 2 of the 4.

Perhaps looking at a way of making these high reputation players more demanding or less likely to join if there is such ample competition in their spot could be worthwhile in the long term? It would hopefully push people more to signing back-up and fringe players who were in the right ballpark ability wise, reputation wise and expectations wise.

I think part of it comes from the fact that as you play the game most people - based on their posts of their squads on these forums and such - seem to be of the mindset that ultimately loading a squad with 160+ CA players is the way forward.

That's absolutely the way forward. I don't know if you are playing FM often enough, but the AI is doing just that - filling the bing bank clubs like Chelsea, PSG, Man City with players with 160+ CA. Look at the Bayern's and Real's real life squads, they are filled with players with 160+ CA. Actually that's the only way to compete for multiple honors in a long season. Playing in Premier league, and the Champions league at the same time, means that you will often have to play two games in 4 days time period. Obviously you have to rotate your squad, and if that two games are facing you against let's say Man City and Bayern Munich, obviously you can't sacrifice the one by using players with 130CA, because you will get trashed.

Let's look at Bayern's squad:

Muller, Vidal, Thiago, Xabi Alonso, Javi Martinez, Douglas Costa, Gotze, Ribery, Robben, Koman, there are also Kimmich and Rode, who are clearly backups, but still you can't use more than 5 of them at the same time, so how will you manage to keep all of them happy in FM? - Impossible.

Real Madrid: Casemiro, Kroos, James, Cristiano, Bale, Modric, Jese, Isco, Kovacic, Odegaard... Do you know what will happen if you give in FM the exact same amount of starts as in real life to Jese, Isco, Kovacic and Odegaard? - They will curse you and will seek a transfer out in early November.

With the big club come the big ambitions. Most people accept that playing for BIG club means, that you will have strong competition around you and you will have to be patient and to take every opportunity to show you are the better one. Playing for Real Madrid is privilege and a dream for a nearly every football player around the world. Would you throw in the trash everything you have done to come and play for this big club, because you are not happy with your 25 games per season, and leave for Dortmund to be a starter?

In Bayerns case you've got a few ageing veterans and new, young players coming through. If they were all 25 the situation wouldn't be the same I believe. It's quite easy to keep them happy in FM though, loaning and agreeing to transfer list players if you aren't using them are perfectly viable means of keeping them happy. Players change their mind if the situation within the team changes.

You're also focusing on the very densely packed parts of the team, if you're identifying those players as being competitors for midfield/attacking midfield roles within their sides then Bayern have precious little backup for Lewandowski and Real Madrid the same for Benzema. You might also be a bit surprised by a couple of the players CA's now.

I think the problem is that some people can't understand that there is no right answer, no way to "win" the conversation game. Usually in games, if there is a golden star on a seemingly inaccessible ledge, there is a way of getting to that ledge. Or if there's a troll in a cave called Thrag The Immortal, there's a way of killing him. If there isn't then the designer has broken the rules and will rightly be pilloried by reviewers and players. But in FM there is sometimes no way of keeping Johnny Average in your squad so you can wheel him out 10 games a season for the rest of his career. Sometimes there's nothing you can say to make him happy with a rotation role, and that's the way it should be. Move on, let him go and get someone else.

A large part of player unhappiness is to stop players stockpiling and signing a large number of first team players when realistically you can't really have more than eleven players who see themselves as first team. Even then, if you have eleven first team players, it means you can have zero rotation, as those first team players won't ever expect to be rotated out. .

I see where you're coming from Neil, but if you are playing, for example, league, league cup, EL/CL, Christmas fixtures then throw in the FA Cup in January, your eleven players are going to be exhausted. In fact it's always been an irritant of mine that in the last few versions of FM, including FM16, when you come to play the big clubs with big squads, they still turn the first team out despite the fact that most of the players become exhausted after 50 odd minutes. The amount of times Aquero has scored against me over the years whilst playing on one leg I've lost count!!

If I'm competing in multiple competitions I need a big squad to cope with tiredness, injury etc. otherwise by January half the squad are 'tired and in need of a rest'.

The amount of times Aquero has scored against me over the years whilst playing on one leg I've lost count!!

I had Aguero outsprint a player with higher pace, acceleration, work rate and determination, in the score in the 118th minute of an FA Cup final on 24 condition.

My player had come on in extra time and condition was in 70s. City had just played a Europa League final a few days before and Aguero started the game in the low 70s with an orange "needs a long rest" icon. He scored a hat-trick in a 3-2 City win. Makes you wonder if condition has any effect in the game at all.

I had Aguero outsprint a player with higher pace, acceleration, work rate and determination, in the score in the 118th minute of an FA Cup final on 24 condition.

My player had come on in extra time and condition was in 70s. City had just played a Europa League final a few days before and Aguero started the game in the low 70s with an orange "needs a long rest" icon. He scored a hat-trick in a 3-2 City win. Makes you wonder if condition has any effect in the game at all.

Which is rather my point. I'm not sure I get this fitness lark. On the one hand we're told don't have large squads to avoid player unhappiness, but small squads inevitably end up tired. Or are they? I'm meticulous around fitness in that I don't play tired players, and in game, if a player is dropping below 70 I'll whip him off if I can. In my head I think they are more likely to be injured when tired.

But am I worrying unnecessarily? As you point out, it doesn't seem to matter. I recall in previous FM's Stephen Gerrard was played all the time, and whenever I played Liverpool, he was never fit, but always put in a shift. I always have a look at the opponent's squad prior to playing them, and frequently half of the team are below 70 and many needing a rest. Come the game, they all turn up, play and get decent match ratings. As for extra time, don't get me started. A team, all of which are in the 'red' against my rotated, so fitter squad, get done in the 118th minute by a team, who by rights should be on life support.

It's difficult to know what to think, and looking on the forums there very little info or guidance on fitness they I can see.