Should there be different difficulty levels?

I'm one of those people who think the game is way too difficult. My results are just crazy and there seems to be no pattern whatsoever. In my Hull City career I lost 5-1 away at Norwich :o, then had Man City at home and won 4-1, then had Swansea at home the week after and lost 3-0 with the same tactics. If there was some kind of difficulty level where you could make the game slightly easier overall then I would definitely take it. The game as it is is just too frustrating. I have games where beforehand I'm 99% sure I'm gonna win: I have better players, better form, better morale, seemingly perfect tactics, great pre-game team talk ... and then get thrashed. If I could just find out why I lose such games then I would be able to have some accountability and blame myself, improve and come back next time with better tactics. No problem as long as it is me who is to blame. The trouble is I always get the feeling that some losses there was just nothing I could do to ensure I won. In the end it always comes down to predominantly luck, over other things like tactics/teamtalks/form/players.

By adding a difficulty system where we could just build a superior team and a decent tactical set-up in order to consistently win, then for me the game would be so much less frustrating than it is. Not to say I don't love this game, but sometimes the results are pretty ridiculous. I would have a system like this:

1) Novice (Low level teams can dominate and play attack football - putting attacks together and scoring is relatively easy regardless of opposition strength)

2) Intermediate (Generally much easier to defend and see games out - slight differences to the ME to make attacking/defending slightly more consistent)

3) Veteran (which is the equivalent of what the game is now - only top managers should have any real success in the long run)

Football doesn't have difficulty levels.

Its two teams with access to exactly the same options trying to beat the other.

Why would the same tactics you used against Man City neccesarily work against Swansea?

Seems to be you just want to turn the game on, click continue and win like it was back in the days of the Diablo tactic. There would be no enjoyment in the game if you know 100% certain that you will win despite putting a striker in goal and the keeper on huge wing just because you can. I'm not tactically great myself and to everyone it seems like there are those games where the ME just wants to see you lose.

I quite like the game how it is despite not enjoying a great deal of success because it replicates the game fairly well in which anything can happen on the pitch just like it does outside of the game. My advice is put more effort and time into the smaller aspects of the tactics you build, how the roles benefit each other and watch the matches carefully for things that aren't working how you intended for changing. There is also the possibility of posting over in the tactics forum for a bit of help too.

Football doesn't have difficulty levels.

Its two teams with access to exactly the same options trying to beat the other.

If I wanted to play football I'd play football. What I want to play is a video game simulating football management. The AI managers in the game are not real people and they are programmed by the developers to have certain levels of skill. Whether you like it or not these AI have already been programmed somewhere on a difficulty spectrum and turning the difficulty up or down shouldn't be a problem for the developers. It would certain make me enjoy the game more.

You're under-estimating (and by quite a big margin) how "easy" it would be to introduce difficulty levels to the game. Effectively you'd have at least 3 ME/games to balance with your idea. It's not realistic.

If I wanted to play football I'd play football. What I want to play is a video game simulating football management. The AI managers in the game are not real people and they are programmed by the developers to have certain levels of skill. Whether you like it or not these AI have already been programmed somewhere on a difficulty spectrum and turning the difficulty up or down shouldn't be a problem for the developers. It would certain make me enjoy the game more.

I think you'd be in a very small minority in wanting that... maybe the best thing to do would perhaps perform a bit better on FM which would lead to greater enjoyment?

If you want to win everything, use the editor to either make a SPL team rich or give them good players or both.

I did that to kilmarknock for the start of my main save and they have won he league 10 times consecuitively, 6 whilst i wasn;t at the club.

No .

In another thread you are talking about having taken York City to the Premier League. My question is, how easy do you want it to be?

In another thread you are talking about having taken York City to the Premier League. My question is, how easy do you want it to be?

Valid point but that was only really because I reset a lot of crucial games where my rage overpowered my common sense. Not a lot of games, but in the end one win is 3 points which can easily promote you or relegate you. If I played the game without resetting any games whatsoever I would probably get no higher than mid-table League 1 in as many seasons (four to be exact) and with York's finances I'd be very lucky to ever get into the championship. I don't think I'm brilliant at the game. I'm sure if I really had the patience to put the research in to work out the exact tactics I should use for every single game, then I could be good. I don't have that level of patience or spare time anyway. It would take me incredibly long to finish one season playing like that.

I don't consider myself to be good with tactics in any way shape or form, but I can consistently take AFC Telford from the lowest playable league to the best team in the world, I've found that trial and error is basically the only way to succeed when it comes to tactics. With regards to "cheating" i.e saving and reloading, I find the game to be infinitely more enjoyable, albeit a lot more frustrating, when you just accept that sometimes you are going to lose out on promotion on goal difference, and sometimes your wonderkid academy player will break his leg, ruining his potential, but when you finally achieve something it feels all the more worthwhile knowing you deserve it

No, challenges keep the game interesting.

Valid point but that was only really because I reset a lot of crucial games where my rage overpowered my common sense. Not a lot of games, but in the end one win is 3 points which can easily promote you or relegate you. If I played the game without resetting any games whatsoever I would probably get no higher than mid-table League 1 in as many seasons (four to be exact) and with York's finances I'd be very lucky to ever get into the championship. I don't think I'm brilliant at the game. I'm sure if I really had the patience to put the research in to work out the exact tactics I should use for every single game, then I could be good. I don't have that level of patience or spare time anyway. It would take me incredibly long to finish one season playing like that.

I think the problem is you want instant success, and because of that you are reloading matches till you fluke wins, all of which means you never actually learn. The reality is, while you talk of time you don't have, if you spent the replay time on playing the game straight you'd probably be better at it. Plus success would feel more rewarding.

It took me 6 seasons to get York to the premier league, largely using a progressively tweaked variant of the same tactic. Not researching and changing every match, just understanding what was what. And I'm certainly not one of the great players of the game. It then took a further 6 years to turn York into a top side. But 12 seasons on the sense of reward I have as I close on a PL/CL double is amazing. This has been the most I've enjoyed a game of FM in years.

You don't need difficulty levels. You just need to either moderate your challenge, or invest that little bit of time learning from your mistakes.

If I wanted to play football I'd play football. What I want to play is a video game simulating football management. The AI managers in the game are not real people and they are programmed by the developers to have certain levels of skill. Whether you like it or not these AI have already been programmed somewhere on a difficulty spectrum and turning the difficulty up or down shouldn't be a problem for the developers. It would certain make me enjoy the game more.

Then I suggest that you go and play FIFA on easy. Then you will always win 6-0 and live long and happy.

Football Manager is a football simulation game that wants to be as close to reality as possible. Adding a difficulty level to FM is the same as adding immortality + a bazooka to certain Call Of Duty players.

And I'm sorry but the AI in FM is crap at tactics, building a team, transfers, teamtalks and everything which involves youth. If they keep beating you, well then I guess you have still a lot to learn.

Valid point but that was only really because I reset a lot of crucial games where my rage overpowered my common sense. Not a lot of games, but in the end one win is 3 points which can easily promote you or relegate you. If I played the game without resetting any games whatsoever I would probably get no higher than mid-table League 1 in as many seasons (four to be exact) and with York's finances I'd be very lucky to ever get into the championship. I don't think I'm brilliant at the game. I'm sure if I really had the patience to put the research in to work out the exact tactics I should use for every single game, then I could be good. I don't have that level of patience or spare time anyway. It would take me incredibly long to finish one season playing like that.

Sounds like FM isn't the game for you, tbh.

There are different difficulty levels. Managing Manchester City as an international footballer rep manager is playing the game on easy.

No, there should absolutely not be different difficulty levels, in the meaning of making it artificially easier/harder to win matches. But there could perhaps be more micro-management levels to choose from, as I don't feel FM Classic quite hits the nail's head, for some. A full FM "career" game but with added option of ditching certain modules that we don't like, would be nice. I'm thinking of things like media, and morale "talks". Yes, we can leave these things to an assistant, but that means it's still present in the game, and the assistant has the capability of getting it totally wrong. I would rather have an option to leave these areas out of the game completely, for human and AI managers. That would be nice.

And another thing - in case SI is thinking of bringing more detail into, or complicating the training module - leave an option for us that thinks that today's training module is perfectly fine; simple yet functional and still capable of meaningful input/detail from the manager. It's the best training module CM/FM has ever had, so please don't tinker too much with it. Football Manager 2015, not Football Training Expert 2015. A few more "role training" options would be nice though, where the roles duties were considered as well.

As we're aware; many are seriously struggling with the tactical aspects of the game, still. I think it would be a nice gesture from SI to provide the game with a few, select tactical templates. With explanations of the why's, the whynot's, the what's, and the when's. Give the strugglers a better starting point. I'm quite convinced that with good explanations, these would be very educational, and would hurry up the path to not needing these templates anymore. And would lead to fewer FM gamers just giving up on tactics, and possibly on the game itself. Preferably these templates should be examples from rl teams and tactics. For example; gamers would like their team to play like Klopp's Dortmund. SI provides a template for how they would go about achieving this, with full explanations of the why's and the whynot's. With all possible disclaimers, of course. "You need to have players of similar quality for this to work" etc. etc. A few carefully chosen examples from teams and tactics the gamers see in rl on their TV screens or stadiums would be nice. It would then be up to the gamers if they would follow these templates without deviation, or if they would expand or embellish upon them. In my opinion, there is no quicker or better way to learn the intricacies of FM tactics than this. As soon as you have a clear(er) picture of the why's and the whynot's, you are in a much better position to make tactics on your own, from scratch. (Well, from the default tactics already in the game, at least).

No, there should absolutely not be different difficulty levels, in the meaning of making it artificially easier/harder to win matches. But there could perhaps be more micro-management levels to choose from, as I don't feel FM Classic quite hits the nail's head, for some. A full FM "career" game but with added option of ditching certain modules that we don't like, would be nice. I'm thinking of things like media, and morale "talks". Yes, we can leave these things to an assistant, but that means it's still present in the game, and the assistant has the capability of getting it totally wrong. I would rather have an option to leave these areas out of the game completely, for human and AI managers. That would be nice.

And another thing - in case SI is thinking of bringing more detail into, or complicating the training module - leave an option for us that thinks that today's training module is perfectly fine; simple yet functional and still capable of meaningful input/detail from the manager. It's the best training module CM/FM has ever had, so please don't tinker too much with it. Football Manager 2015, not Football Training Expert 2015. A few more "role training" options would be nice though, where the roles duties were considered as well.

As we're aware; many are seriously struggling with the tactical aspects of the game, still. I think it would be a nice gesture from SI to provide the game with a few, select tactical templates. With explanations of the why's, the whynot's, the what's, and the when's. Give the strugglers a better starting point. I'm quite convinced that with good explanations, these would be very educational, and would hurry up the path to not needing these templates anymore. And would lead to fewer FM gamers just giving up on tactics, and possibly on the game itself. Preferably these templates should be examples from rl teams and tactics. For example; gamers would like their team to play like Klopp's Dortmund. SI provides a template for how they would go about achieving this, with full explanations of the why's and the whynot's. With all possible disclaimers, of course. "You need to have players of similar quality for this to work" etc. etc. A few carefully chosen examples from teams and tactics the gamers see in rl on their TV screens or stadiums would be nice. It would then be up to the gamers if they would follow these templates without deviation, or if they would expand or embellish upon them. In my opinion, there is no quicker or better way to learn the intricacies of FM tactics than this. As soon as you have a clear(er) picture of the why's and the whynot's, you are in a much better position to make tactics on your own, from scratch. (Well, from the default tactics already in the game, at least).

I agree with most of this. I definitely think the developers should give more details and advice on tactical set-ups within the game. For example the instruction "work the ball into the box" I immediately assumed meant that players would look to get the ball into the box before shooting, thus cutting out those annoying long distance shots. A few weeks ago I turned it off and there has been absolutely no difference in distance shooting; what happens now is that my central mid-fielders don't dawdle on the ball so much trying to pick out the perfect pass through the eye of the needle into the box, and instead spread it wide to my wingers usually who cross for a much more deadly attack. This helped me loads because before I lost so many counter attack goals through my mid-fielders dawdling on the ball until they were tackled.

So yeah there should be some kind of detailed explanation for exactly what each instruction will bring to your team. I also think certain instructions don't change much at all really, for example the "get stuck in" instruction: whether that is green or not, nothing at all seems to change in the way my team tackle (or don't tackle, more like). Yet I still keep getting these press conference things saying "your team is one of the most proficient tackling outfits in the league," probably because the developers are bantering me or something.

I personally agree that the tool-tips aren't explicit enough.

I uninstalled the game a fortnight or so ago, but think the online manual pretty much replicates the in-game instructions?

If so, Work Ball Into Box is described as:

"Instructs your players to work hard for their opening, remaining patient and not forcing the issue."

OK. But what does that actually mean? I know it means that Long Shots are set to Rarely, but that definition is a legacy of a bygone age.

The definition used in-game distances itself from that obsolete era, but it is too ambiguous to be of any use.

More explicit tool-tips will alleviate a lot of confusion. However, users still need to be mindful that no Player Instruction or Team Instruction in FM is like an on/off switch. This is human behaviour being modelled, so occasionally players will still take long shots even when instructed not to - if they perceive they have no other option.

I don't see why there couldn't be difficulty modifiers for players who struggle too much and would like the balance tipped in their favour more.

Off the top of my head you could have the ability to see the AI's tactics like there used to be on older FM/CM's.

Perfect scout reports that were 100% accurate on player ability, wage demands etc.

Both of these could be turned on or off at the start of a game in the way you choose to have attribute masking thus removing temptation from players who try to play 100% realistic.

I personally agree that the tool-tips aren't explicit enough.

I uninstalled the game a fortnight or so ago, but think the online manual pretty much replicates the in-game instructions?

If so, Work Ball Into Box is described as:

"Instructs your players to work hard for their opening, remaining patient and not forcing the issue."

OK. But what does that actually mean? I know it means that Long Shots are set to Rarely, but that definition is a legacy of a bygone age.

The definition used in-game distances itself from that obsolete era, but it is too ambiguous to be of any use.

More explicit tool-tips will alleviate a lot of confusion. However, users still need to be mindful that no Player Instruction or Team Instruction in FM is like an on/off switch. This is human behaviour being modelled, so occasionally players will still take long shots even when instructed not to - if they perceive they have no other option.

I thought that description of Work The Ball Into the Box was extremely vague too. I honestly think developers themselves at times don't even know what certain instructions will do, so they put something extremely vague and ambiguous that can mean any number of things in order to avoid being wrong.

No there shouldn't be but technically there already are different difficulty levels anyway. What you chose as your past history; whether you start unemployed or not; the team you decide to manage; choosing whether to work the Youths up through to your 1st team or concentrate fully on bringing in good Professionals.

If you chose International Footballer as your past history and choose to manage Manchester United then that will be much easier than starting as a manager with a Sunday League history and choosing to manage Accrington Stanley.

The player really already chooses how hard/easy he/she wants the game.

No there shouldn't be but technically there already are different difficulty levels anyway. What you chose as your past history; whether you start unemployed or not; the team you decide to manage; choosing whether to work the Youths up through to your 1st team or concentrate fully on bringing in good Professionals.

If you chose International Footballer as your past history and choose to manage Manchester United then that will be much easier than starting as a manager with a Sunday League history and choosing to manage Accrington Stanley.

The player really already chooses how hard/easy he/she wants the game.

Unless your name is Louis van gaal of course. Or David moyes.

Accrington Stanley.

Accrington Stanley? Who are they?

Accrington Stanley? Who are they?

Exactly.

No .

+ 1

Absolutely not. Let the developers focus on improving the game, not on developing two additional ME. This is not an arcade game.

Accrington Stanley? Who are they?

There you go...you've added another "difficulty" level...choose a club you've never heard of