14.3 - Corners

I played around 9 hours on the new patch last night (14.3) and I only saw 1 corner goal in all that time (between me and the ai), kind of feels that its been over compensated too far, and toned down alot from 14.2, anyone else finding this?

I was flicking between "near post" and "far post" with no joy, but also, I wasn't conceding at the other end either.

So, and anyone got a good corner routine, or has it really been toned down?

Thanks

Perhaps you could add your thoughts to this, which I think has the potential to be a good thread.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/383448-Set-piece-schedules.

I did do, but that thread isn't in relation to 14.3 and the changes since the new patch.

The schedules in that thread are now redundant.

I did do, but that thread isn't in relation to 14.3 and the changes since the new patch.

The schedules in that thread are now redundant.

I think the schedules there are to open a discussion. They may well be relevant, but as 14.3 is less than 24 hours old, we'll need to test and see.

Well for me it's completly oppsite...I'm losing ridiculous amount of goals from corners....It really pisses me off atm.

Played on today, I'm conceding more, than I am scoring off corners.

So far scored 2, conceded 4, in around 25 games.

I think one of the more significant change is the zonal marking tuned for 14.3, as quite often i see the AI have 4 guys stand as a line zonal marking near six yard area. (Looks very funny tho...)

However, i seems cant do the same in my tactic as i can only apply ONE guy for marking six yard, i.e. zonal marking.

Still testing around corner strategy now, seems out swing corner to far post work decently...

Man I just can't play this game anymore...I'm constanly loosing goals from set pieces (corners, free kicks, long throw ins). Really I'm getting sick off it. I'm just wasting my time for this whole match preparation, role and duty choosing just to see it worthless couse I just cannot defend those set pieces. 7 from my last 10 conceded goals were form set pieces. I'm just that close to reach the thin red line and just stop playing this...maybe somebody can share good defensive corner routine ?

If your player just isn't up for the job, you're SOL.

No magic set pieces defense setup will fix it, if you players lack the skill to position well, win headers and finally being good enough to head them to safety.

I can feel the pain every time I have to rest my top set piece defender, it really make my set piece defense shaky without him around, since my attempts at getting people interested in figuring out what attributes make or break a player in this situation have failed so far, I've pretty much no idea who would be the best choice to replace him.

Since downloading the new update I have continued my current save and not needed to adjust my tactics. I have played about 1/3 of a season with this update and am very pleased with the improvements to the ME. One thing that does stand out for me is the way that my opponents set up to defend corners, throw ins near to their penalty area, and free kicks.

For corners in particular, all opponents seem to have a player on each post and four players lined up on the six yard box. I am assuming that this "fix" is a way of improving AI defending/clearances at corners and I have, indeed, been scoring less from corners than I was before 14.3.

If I go to the tactics creator, I am only allowed to have one player set to mark the six yard box - how on earth can the AI clearly have four players lined up on the six yard box when we are consistently advised that AI teams/managers use same tactics creator as humans.....I am happy with the way I have my defending of corners set up but surely humans should be able to set up multiple players marking six yard box if the AI can?

I think one of the more significant change is the zonal marking tuned for 14.3, as quite often i see the AI have 4 guys stand as a line zonal marking near six yard area. (Looks very funny tho...)

However, i seems cant do the same in my tactic as i can only apply ONE guy for marking six yard, i.e. zonal marking.

Still testing around corner strategy now, seems out swing corner to far post work decently...

I agree. Posted a similar query on the 14.3 feedback thread. How do you get more than 1 man to mark the six yard box (ie zonally)? It seems quite effective as my goals from corners have dramatically decreased (for the better as I was scoring too much from corners) against this new 4 man zone. Just wondering how to implement it too?

I agree. Posted a similar query on the 14.3 feedback thread. How do you get more than 1 man to mark the six yard box (ie zonally)? It seems quite effective as my goals from corners have dramatically decreased (for the better as I was scoring too much from corners) against this new 4 man zone. Just wondering how to implement it too?

This!

This needs an hot fix! My goals from corners have reduced greatly since the AI been able to do this yet i can't implement the same?

SI fix!

Only conceded 4 goals last season from corners under 14.3 with out anyone marking 6 yard box so I'm not too bothered about that.

But only scored 5 which is more of a problem.

I agree. Posted a similar query on the 14.3 feedback thread. How do you get more than 1 man to mark the six yard box (ie zonally)? It seems quite effective as my goals from corners have dramatically decreased (for the better as I was scoring too much from corners) against this new 4 man zone. Just wondering how to implement it too?

Unfortunately we can't replicate this behaviour. It's the only instance I'm aware of in the entire game where the AI can do something we can't.

However, I'm not convinced that this directly reduces the number of goals we as human managers can score from corners, nor do I believe that the fact we can't adopt the same strategy when defending corners markedly reduces our likelihood of reducing goals from corners.

To be clear though - this is not the sole reason why goals from corners have reduced, so it wasn't just a hastily applied sticking plaster to mask a bigger issue. A whole bunch of fixes were introduced to firstly reduce the number of corners in the first case - essentially tied to all the fixes you can see for decision making in the final third.

Corner delivery has been tweaked, so the direction and trajectory don't directly lead to the number of similar corner goals we had on the last update (also far fewer go straight out of play).

Defender reactions to corners have improved; direction and power of clearances is now far more sensible.

However, the AI zonal marking behaviour was identified too late in testing to be safely fixed before the update. It is something that will be revisited for FM15.

Imo then they should hot fix to revert the ai's ability to zone mark like this. That's exactly how i wanna defend corners and we players can't do it, then the ai shouldn't be able to do it either.

Any further updates are hugely unlikely, as attention needs to revert to FM15 now.

This corner set up is a frustrating inconsistency, but in isolation is not a significant game breaking problem.

Unfortunately we can't replicate this behaviour. It's the only instance I'm aware of in the entire game where the AI can do something we can't.

So, ME is not the same for the player and AI after all. Fantastic.

So, ME is not the same for the player and AI after all. Fantastic.

In this one instance out of the many thousands of in match events. Hardly enough to get dramatic about.

Why should i care is it one instance or 100, i paid for unfair game. And you expect people to pay 50e for this. SI is lucky that there isn't good alternative for this game, but things change.

Why should i care is it one instance or 100, i paid for unfair game. And you expect people to pay 50e for this. SI is lucky that there isn't good alternative for this game, but things change.

Wow, do you really feel that strongly about a game? It's enjoyable, and more than worth the money we pay for it. If you think about how much it costs to go to a football match, the cinema etc etc, it's extraordinary value for money. The game is more than playable (if far from perfect)

The lack of a decent alternative, says more about how good FM is, as sure as anything when there is a gap in the market someone will try and take their chance, no one has really managed it yet.

People have been exploiting the ME for years, without to much concern about fairness. In the previous patch, I worked very hard on sorting out the goals conceded from corners, and I had finally managed to get it to a good level, then the new patch comes out, so guess it's time to work it out all over again. If I felt so strongly about it as you do (and you have every right too, it is your money) I would probably find a new pass time.

Why should i care is it one instance or 100, i paid for unfair game. And you expect people to pay 50e for this. SI is lucky that there isn't good alternative for this game, but things change.

Because numbers give context. One instance of "unfair" balance in a game which models the behaviour of 22 humans for 90 full minutes, differs to 100 instances quite significantly.

There are bigger bugs remaining in the game than this, and as corners remain eminently defendable (as they were in the last update to a lesser extent), it's not a big deal for how I personally evaluate the scale of bugs. We clearly have different expectations.

Wow, do you really feel that strongly about a game? It's enjoyable, and more than worth the money we pay for it. If you think about how much it costs to go to a football match, the cinema etc etc, it's extraordinary value for money. The game is more than playable (if far from perfect)

The lack of a decent alternative, says more about how good FM is, as sure as anything when there is a gap in the market someone will try and take their chance, no one has really managed it yet.

People have been exploiting the ME for years, without to much concern about fairness. In the previous patch, I worked very hard on sorting out the goals conceded from corners, and I had finally managed to get it to a good level, then the new patch comes out, so guess it's time to work it out all over again. If I felt so strongly about it as you do (and you have every right too, it is your money) I would probably find a new pass time.

Completely agree

Lets get the thread back on topic now guys, back to these corners, I've been trying out "short" corners, and I'm having a bit of joy through them, better than lumping it into the box for it to be cleared time and time again, by that row of 4 players on the 6 yard box.

Unfortunately we can't replicate this behaviour. It's the only instance I'm aware of in the entire game where the AI can do something we can't.

However, I'm not convinced that this directly reduces the number of goals we as human managers can score from corners, nor do I believe that the fact we can't adopt the same strategy when defending corners markedly reduces our likelihood of reducing goals from corners.

To be clear though - this is not the sole reason why goals from corners have reduced, so it wasn't just a hastily applied sticking plaster to mask a bigger issue. A whole bunch of fixes were introduced to firstly reduce the number of corners in the first case - essentially tied to all the fixes you can see for decision making in the final third.

Corner delivery has been tweaked, so the direction and trajectory don't directly lead to the number of similar corner goals we had on the last update (also far fewer go straight out of play).

Defender reactions to corners have improved; direction and power of clearances is now far more sensible.

However, the AI zonal marking behaviour was identified too late in testing to be safely fixed before the update. It is something that will be revisited for FM15.

Ah gotcha! Yes the number of goals scored/conceded are definitely more realistic now both statistically and how they are scored in the ME. It would be great to have this feature of zonal marking corners in the future. Also being able to pick which specific man to mark rather than the generic mark tall/small players would add another degree of realism- especially if an opponent's best aerial threat isn't that tall (eg a tim cahill type) but they have 2/3 more taller players in the box which draw away my best and tallest aerial defenders.

Given the amount of time placed on set pieces in real life, i think these additions would definitely add an extra layer of depth to the game. Just my 2 cents.

Lets get the thread back on topic now guys, back to these corners, I've been trying out "short" corners, and I'm having a bit of joy through them, better than lumping it into the box for it to be cleared time and time again, by that row of 4 players on the 6 yard box.

Rather than just exclusively use short corners, I've found a fair amount of joy from leaving them on Mixed, but with having a player set to Offer Short Option.

I found that exclusively playing short was too predictable, and that at least providing the option of a short corner offered some much needed variety, and variety for me is the key to all set pieces.

I get a decent amount of goals from corners, even after the patch. Scored 2 corner goals against Spurs just now (I'm Arsenal), and they did indeed apply this 4-players-defending-the-6-yard trick. Both these goals came from one of my DC's, as they mostly do. In the 11 or 12 matches I have played since the patch, I haven't noticed a difference in corner goals scored against me, nor have I had more corner goals than usual. I think I have detected a slight reduction in the total number of corners though ... which is good. There were too many.

I use a default attack corner routine, except that I have a big-ish and strong-ish player challenging their keeper (usually my striker), and 1 player set to lurk outside. In defense I have no players at the posts; all players told to "go back" except 1 player told to allways stay forward, 1 player "edge of area", 1 player closing down corner, and the DC's marking tall players, as usual.

I have tried setting my striker to mark 6-yard area instead of just "go back", but when I do that, he just stands there on the 6-yard line, very static, hardly reacts to the ball at all unless it comes straight at his very small "zone". So I have abandoned that - he manages to get a fair amount of clearances just by being told to go back anyway.

This very static behaviour is something I notice with the player told to stay at "edge of area" too - he starts to react only if the ball is cleared out to somewhere in front of him. But this does not matter so much, as he's there mainly to apply immediate pressure if the ball is cleared out to one of the opponents player outside the area, and he manages to do that.

Rather than just exclusively use short corners, I've found a fair amount of joy from leaving them on Mixed, but with having a player set to Offer Short Option.

I found that exclusively playing short was too predictable, and that at least providing the option of a short corner offered some much needed variety, and variety for me is the key to all set pieces.

Cool, I see your thinking there, it did cross my mind, I might change them to mixed for half a season and see how I get on. With them set to mixed, do you still have so many players in the box, in specific areas (like front post, back post, challenge keeper etc), or do you set all players to "go forward"?

Cool, I see your thinking there, it did cross my mind, I might change them to mixed for half a season and see how I get on. With them set to mixed, do you still have so many players in the box, in specific areas (like front post, back post, challenge keeper etc), or do you set all players to "go forward"?

Can't remember off the top of my head, but only one (I think) has just Go Forward. I have a bit of everything except "Lurks Outside Area" because I found that when we did play to the Short Option, he generally just passed to the Lurker, and it was often intercepted.

I haven't changed settings on corners since the game came out, so I might revisit the Lurk option.

Yeah, there must be a little work around retaining possession from corners, or creating better chances, because lumping it in just results in a easy clearance by the 4 zonal defender's around the 6 yard box.

Any further updates are hugely unlikely, as attention needs to revert to FM15 now.

This corner set up is a frustrating inconsistency, but in isolation is not a significant game breaking problem.

Agreed but hopefully it will be addressed as part of FM15 if no hotfix for FM14. It would be a shame if this were the start of AI only items creeping into the game.

Why should i care is it one instance or 100, i paid for unfair game. And you expect people to pay 50e for this. SI is lucky that there isn't good alternative for this game, but things change.

Utter tosh. We're at risk of over-analysing one small and relatively unimportant area of an entirely huge piece of software.

Anyway.

Corners are a funny one for me. I must admit to not paying much attention to them but I do score a lot. This must be down to the qualities of my individual players making up for not-very-thorough-management. It is consistent though, in the last two iterations of FM, that my CBs score a notable number of goals from set pieces. I will investigate further!

Corners are a funny one for me. I must admit to not paying much attention to them but I do score a lot. This must be down to the qualities of my individual players making up for not-very-thorough-management. It is consistent though, in the last two iterations of FM, that my CBs score a notable number of goals from set pieces. I will investigate further!

Very true, but since the 14.3 update, the opposition now have zonal marking around the 6 yard box preventing this from happening.

Very true, but since the 14.3 update, the opposition now have zonal marking around the 6 yard box preventing this from happening.

I have noticed this and it hasn't deterred my CB's efforts (4/5 games into the season and he has 4 goals). I will post a screen shot to show you my (unintentional) set up and hopefully we can shed some light on this while giving everyone some food for thought.

I do want to say that I am thorough in every aspect of FM but not corners never been an issue for me and managed to score enough. If it ain't broke...

Yeah post a screenshot, I'f be interested to see that later

Not a corner, but a throw in close to the corner flag. Opposition took the throw reasonably deep into our own half (down our left flank), played a cross field ball to an unmarked winger on the other side of the area. He touch and scored. They barely had anyone forward. My right back was practically marking my right sided centre back whilst my right winger was incredibly narrow, so there was no one marking him. He honestly could've dribbled up to the 6 yard box unchallenged. It's actually a general problem I've noticed with fullbacks so far - mine seem to tuck in way too narrow when the opposition have the ball centrally - allowing an easy cross field pass to the unchallenged winger.

Not a corner, but a throw in close to the corner flag. Opposition took the throw reasonably deep into our own half (down our left flank), played a cross field ball to an unmarked winger on the other side of the area. He touch and scored. They barely had anyone forward. My right back was practically marking my right sided centre back whilst my right winger was incredibly narrow, so there was no one marking him. He honestly could've dribbled up to the 6 yard box unchallenged. It's actually a general problem I've noticed with fullbacks so far - mine seem to tuck in way too narrow when the opposition have the ball centrally - allowing an easy cross field pass to the unchallenged winger.

There are so many factors that would contribute to that. The problem is: Your full backs are too narrow. The questions that result, among others, are:

What are your team instructions? What are your player instructions? Have your CBs tried to press and left a gap and your full back is compensating by covering? Are they narrow because they are man marking the opposition? Are you not dealing with an overlap effectively due to the opposition overloading the middle of the pitch? Have the opposition wide players been clever in their movement? Have you ignored opposition instructions and not asked for the wide men to be closed down? Have you asked that the centre forwards be closed down heavily and you have two men doing one's job?

You can't examine one, small aspect of play and attribute it to a wider problem. There is a root cause for everything and so many reasons why a player may behave in a certain way. The beauty of it is examining each and every one and making sure you have it accommodated for.

Give us a more detailed description or some screen shots and I am sure you will get some advice

After investigation it seems that the current set piece creator will not allow the User to set more than one player to carry out the same role when defending (or indeed attacking) corners. We will obviously look at this as a priority for FM15.

After investigation it seems that the current set piece creator will not allow the User to set more than one player to carry out the same role when defending (or indeed attacking) corners. We will obviously look at this as a priority for FM15.

Cheers.

Can I add though that the rest of the M.E. is actually really good. Please don't tinker too much with it.

Thanks Tony, nice to see its been acknowledged.

We just need to find a best case scenario set up for the remainder of FM14 then.....

After investigation it seems that the current set piece creator will not allow the User to set more than one player to carry out the same role when defending (or indeed attacking) corners. We will obviously look at this as a priority for FM15.

Thanks for the "official" clarification Tony.

So it's not really even a ME issue, more of a User Interface issue.

That is correct RTH. Unfortunately this would be possible for a human manager to set (it's not a limitation of the ME at all), but as some set piece instructions are restricted to one player only and this one has slipped under the radar. There are many instructions currently restricted to just one player (e.g. Lurk Outside Area on Attacking corners or Edge of Area for Defending corners) that we will re-consider in future to give the User greater flexibility when setting up their set pieces. A re-appraisal of all instructions is underway, though one specific thing I can promise is that this discrepency with zonal marking will be fixed for FM15.

In the meantime I've found that the method of zonal marking is actually quite susceptible to attack from corners and even if I could select it myself I would probably choose not to use it (though I'm sure Rafa Benitez would probably disagree with me!)

That is correct RTH. Unfortunately this would be possible for a human manager to set (it's not a limitation of the ME at all), but as some set piece instructions are restricted to one player only and this one has slipped under the radar. There are many instructions currently restricted to just one player (e.g. Lurk Outside Area on Attacking corners or Edge of Area for Defending corners) that we will re-consider in future to give the User greater flexibility when setting up their set pieces. A re-appraisal of all instructions is underway, though one specific thing I can promise is that this discrepency with zonal marking will be fixed for FM15.

In the meantime I've found that the method of zonal marking is actually quite susceptible to attack from corners and even if I could select it myself I would probably choose not to use it (though I'm sure Rafa Benitez would probably disagree with me!)

It is quite possible if Rafa had decided to agree with you, he may just still be Liverpool manager, at least he was loved there. Seems he has been a little under appreciated elsewhere, despite his excellent track record.

Zonal marking from set pieces, or just in general is an okay concept if it is done properly, problem being, I haven't seen any teams (in England at least) that have any idea how to carry it out properly.

After investigation it seems that the current set piece creator will not allow the User to set more than one player to carry out the same role when defending (or indeed attacking) corners. We will obviously look at this as a priority for FM15.

So does this mean as human managers we are still susceptible to problematic defending when it comes to corners whereas the AI is not? Or has defending at corners improved regardless of this?

Has anyone come across an opposition team not playing zonal marking of the 6 yard box? I played 10 different teams last night and every single one used the same 4 man wall on the 6 yard line and 2 on the post. Even by changing my own attacking set piece instructions didn't change the opposition approach. Tried both everyone on go forward and then specific instructions (Short option, lurk outside area, near post flick on, challenge keeper, attack far post, attack near post, attack ball from deep and go forward).

I scored 2 goals in the 10 games from corners and both of them came from the player attacking the ball from deep.

So does this mean as human managers we are still susceptible to problematic defending when it comes to corners whereas the AI is not? Or has defending at corners improved regardless of this?

Defending at corners has improved alot, no more silly goals

Defending at corners has improved alot, no more silly goals

I hope so. I just had juan mata (smallest guy on the park) score against me to deny me a title on the last day of the season.

Having played last night I have scored a number of goals against this zonal marking. On first impressions it seems the majority come from a CB nipping in at the near post and beating the front man. Sorry I didn't post a screenshot last night, the evening got away from me. I will this evening.

Having played last night I have scored a number of goals against this zonal marking. On first impressions it seems the majority come from a CB nipping in at the near post and beating the front man. Sorry I didn't post a screenshot last night, the evening got away from me. I will this evening.

Yeah, I'd be interested to see how you've set up

Having played last night I have scored a number of goals against this zonal marking. On first impressions it seems the majority come from a CB nipping in at the near post and beating the front man. Sorry I didn't post a screenshot last night, the evening got away from me. I will this evening.

Same here. I do not think that this zonal defending on corners benefits the AI team a lot, if at all.

In real life, there's a number of teams that use zonal marking for corners either regularly, or occasionally. I have seen both Chelsea and Arsenal zonal mark on corners. A couple of tall players marks the biggest air threats, the rest zonal mark. In continental and northern Europe you see it even more often.

just to say a thing. although it is used, real managers very,extremely, rarely use zonal marking when defending set pieces and generally in the box in open play. it is just too risky. not a big deal but highly unrealistic to see it happen every game against all opposition in the game. on the other hand, when they use it they often use it very, extremely, similar as FM does. sometimes they add another bank of players just above the six yard box with another 3 players so you get 4 + 3 banks...

Really... I think you need to watch IRL matches a bit more closely if that's what you think. Many top managers use a zonal system.