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Scouts are Terrible


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Now as far as I can tell JA & JP works about as well as expected however, isn't a scouts job to find BETTER players than you already have?

As a Premier League side I have very good scouts scouting the major European powers including England however, the best recommendation ANY of them have given me is that there "isn't much difference between" the scouted player and what I already have!

I have a squad full of players described as "good signing for most Premier sides". Why are they NEVER finding players described as "leading star for most Premier sides"?

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I've always understood that scouts only find players who are willing to come to your club. So may be most of the better players don't want to come and your scouts ignore them?

Nope thats incorrect. If I manually scout individual players I can find them and they will join. Its just more needless micromanagement.:(

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I only bother checking "Highly Recommended" reports and even then most are equally good as those I have, no more. I bet that if the scouts came back with only one player on their report and you could just click on him and buy him, you would be the first person to complain about FM being only about clicking continue as it plays itself.

A bit harsh, but one of the skills needed to play FM expertly is spotting talent when you see it. Why not try it?

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Now as far as I can tell JA & JP works about as well as expected however' date=' isn't a scouts job to find [b']BETTER [/b]players than you already have?

As a Premier League side I have very good scouts scouting the major European powers including England however, the best recommendation ANY of them have given me is that there "isn't much difference between" the scouted player and what I already have!

I have a squad full of players described as "good signing for most Premier sides". Why are they NEVER finding players described as "leading star for most Premier sides"?

Possible reasons:

- Your reputation (club and personal) is not high enough so they only inform you of players that you have chance to sign

- You already have team full of players that are close to the top tier of what you can afford, so they can't find anything better.

From whole report , you should just look if they are injury prone or inconsistent and what they want for wages.Other then that, you need to make your own judgement call if that player is upgrade for you or not strictly based on their attributes.If player has 5 stars doesn't mean that he will become star or even fit into your playing strategy.

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What annoys me most is when I have a team full of players with 3 stars CA, then my scouts go away and find a player with 0.5 stars CA, 2 stars PA, and recommend them as a good signing!

Also, they seem to have an incredible inability to actually *find* players. When I was in the lower leagues, I had 10 scouts, but could only scout the UK. You would think they would produce comprehensive reports on every player in the UK, but no. What they actually did was find about 100 players incapable of playing for my team, and then generate reports on those same players endlessly.

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I only bother checking "Highly Recommended" reports and even then most are equally good as those I have, no more. I bet that if the scouts came back with only one player on their report and you could just click on him and buy him, you would be the first person to complain about FM being only about clicking continue as it plays itself.

A bit harsh, but one of the skills needed to play FM expertly is spotting talent when you see it. Why not try it?

Please read what I actually type.

The purpose of a scout is ultimately to find BETTER players (otherwise why bother?).

When left to the their own devices they don't. You end up having to search for these players MANUALLY.

Yes I can find players better than I already have but must MANUALLY scout them. I.E. click on a player then get someone to scout him. Way too micromanagement and generally makes scouts useless to me.

Even worse is the AssMan Team report which always seems to say something along the lines of "you are weakest in midfield and your AssMan recommends blah blah as a solution". So AssMan scouts him and guess what? Yep! No better than the guys I already have and quite often only plays as accomplished in that position instead of natural. So WHY recommend him????

Also only the player search / scout screens, one useful filter (not currenlt available) would be to filter players who play "naturally" in a particular position. Fed up of looking for midfielders and finding mainly defensive and attacking midfielders who have central midfield as "accomplished". :(

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Please read what I actually type.

The purpose of a scout is ultimately to find BETTER players (otherwise why bother?).

When left to the their own devices they don't. You end up having to search for these players MANUALLY.

Yes I can find players better than I already have but must MANUALLY scout them. I.E. click on a player then get someone to scout him. Way too micromanagement and generally makes scouts useless to me.

Even worse is the AssMan Team report which always seems to say something along the lines of "you are weakest in midfield and your AssMan recommends blah blah as a solution". So AssMan scouts him and guess what? Yep! No better than the guys I already have and quite often only plays as accomplished in that position instead of natural. So WHY recommend him????

Also only the player search / scout screens' date=' one useful filter (not currenlt available) would be to filter players who play "naturally" in a particular position. Fed up of looking for midfielders and finding mainly defensive and attacking midfielders who have central midfield as "accomplished". :([/quote']

Yeah this was a better explanation of what you meant. I think the problem is that the scouts and other staff are not anywhere near as ambitious as we human managers -they are generally happy continuing the current level of success. Scouts finding players above the current club standing is therefore relatively rare.

The usefulness of the advice diminishes as you surpass the AI managers in ability. They are rather "holding you back" because if you have a newly promoted club in the Premier League your team is normally consisting of Championship-class players but what you would like is of course "Leading Stars for most PL sides" not "Decent player for most PL sides"/"Leading Star for most CH sides" but that is what you will get, considering the club's reputation. If you want "Good Player for most PL sides" you will either have to be lucky and find such players in the big club's reserve teams transfer listed (in which case the scouts will probably find them) or you will have to go looking yourself because you are being rude, pushing the boundaries set up by the game.

Since the AI can never be as good as us human managers we are all doomed to do a lot of things MANUALLY, and I think that is alright.

BTW I second the filter option of being able to filter out non-Natural players. I have been wanting that for ages!

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What annoys me most is when I have a team full of players with 3 stars CA, then my scouts go away and find a player with 0.5 stars CA, 2 stars PA, and recommend them as a good signing!

Also, they seem to have an incredible inability to actually *find* players. When I was in the lower leagues, I had 10 scouts, but could only scout the UK. You would think they would produce comprehensive reports on every player in the UK, but no. What they actually did was find about 100 players incapable of playing for my team, and then generate reports on those same players endlessly.

I quite agree! As I said in a below post, I'm fed up with my scouts repeatedly highly recommending a bunch of useless players in their late 20's (well 3 or 4 of them), because they may have a high PA rating, despite having absolutely no chance of reaching that potential. As snootyjim says, although I can only scout in Sweden, you would have thought my scouts would be able to scout more than the same 2 or 3 teams repeatedly - If I see another yet useless Mellerud player being recommended, I think I'll do something painful to said scout.

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If you're playing as a big team (which I assume you are as your original post infers it as such) then the responses you are getting are less than surprising. Scouts can be really handed when playing in the lower divisions.

Once you get a few years in and the game starts throwing out regens all over the world, that is when they come into they're own. Are you gonna sift through 20,000 new players from Bradford to Brazil? I know I'm not. But having a report coming back saying "Trevor Regen has the potential to be as good as Sergio Aguero/Javier Pastore/whoever is in your first team" then I'll add the player to my shortlist and assess the players situation periodically.

But starting a game with Utd for example and expecting a report to come back on anyone saying they're better than any of the best players in their respective positions then you're gonna be dissappointed

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must personally say first ive never had a prob with scouts in the last two fm's on any level playing in epl, spain, france, ireland, portugal, brazil

potential ways to overcome these problems some seem to experience?

1. good scouts (as per your team level obv) get the right stats pa ca determination, ive heard adaptability may fall in dont know tho so i dont bother with it

2. use filters, i only search for players under a certian age myself so i dont come across this problem mentioned directly above about scouts coming back with high pa low ca 28year olds, but you could use attribute filters include physical stats or mentals these are both generally only found in good players so you can remove most of the rubbish straight away.

on another note having an average of 3star ca and a scout finding a pot 2.5 "as he sees it" is fine hes only saying i think this guy could be good he might be better depending how good the scout is??? returning similar level players isnt a prob either, look at nani and valencia, both will have similar ca pa but are completely different players.

dont take these things on face value, actually think about it and youll see scouts arent "terrible"

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Okay, I've just checked this to verify my previous statement.

I have three strikers in my squad with 3.5-4 star potential and 3-3.5 star current ability. One of my scouts has found a player with 0.5 star current ability, potential of 1.5, who is 23 years old, and believes he would be a decent signing.

He also believes that this player would be "a good signing for npower League 1", and could become a "decent Championship striker". I'm pushing to get into the European places in the Premiership, so what possible use is a League 1 striker? The scout has JPA19 and JPP20!

I know sometimes people hurl around over-the-top criticisms of FM, but some of the scouting issues are definitely a bit odd.

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Okay, I've just checked this to verify my previous statement.

I have three strikers in my squad with 3.5-4 star potential and 3-3.5 star current ability. One of my scouts has found a player with 0.5 star current ability, potential of 1.5, who is 23 years old, and believes he would be a decent signing.

He also believes that this player would be "a good signing for npower League 1", and could become a "decent Championship striker". I'm pushing to get into the European places in the Premiership, so what possible use is a League 1 striker? The scout has JPA19 and JPP20!

I know sometimes people hurl around over-the-top criticisms of FM, but some of the scouting issues are definitely a bit odd.

This only means that you are overperforming! You are doing better than your reputation assumes you would. Until the reputation catches up with your performance, you will not be offered players (by both agents and scouts) of the quality you need. This will take a while, and it happens to everyone taking lower-league clubs into the Premiership.

The only thing I can think of that could possibly help in the short term, is to sign higher-reputation (national+) scouts who already have extensive scouting knowledge. In the long term, winning tournaments is the quickest way to raise the club's reputation.

It is annoying that your own staff believes that you are a League One club when you really are in Premier League, but reputation is raised too slowly in FM.

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My issue with scouts is that they rarely uncover true talents, I had a scout combing the french youth system for bright stars of the future, but they came back with terrible 2 star at most youngsters, then one rainy day I was bored enough to manually look and found 2 x 4 star rated youngsters, both available for a very low price, both 'extremely interested' in joining, it took about 15 mins to find them yet my top scout didnt find them in a whole season... basically scouts suck a bit in FM, always have

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Something I'd like to see added to the scout page is a tab recording the players that you've signed based on their reports & what they actual said about the player at the time, if every player he suggested wsa a 5* prospect turned out to be a donkey I'd like to know this so that I can dispatch the scout of to the job centre.

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My main complaint about scouting is that using the manual player search to short list targets followed by sending scouts out to gather reports has a much better success rate then sending scouts on assignment. Its just rewarding those who have more time to spend clicking buttons. It has no strategy to it there's no fun in it, its just unnecessary micro management.

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As I've only ever played in an LLM way it was not something that I noticeed too much in the past but it has become more apparent that the current scouting model needs refining.

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The blog just deals with improvements to the scouting reports, what the main issue appears to be is that the scouts in FM are generally quite poor in finding players to write reports on, far too often I've seen AI teams sign wonderkinds from Africa or South America yet my scouts all too often come back with nothing of any great note & certainly a very liited group of players that would improve my current team.

I think 08 was that last time I recall my scouts unearthing unknown talent.

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Ok then, the original complaint is invalid!

There, OK, happy now? It's your tactics, or some such rubbish, because I *usually* play LLM by LLM rules and have no problem finding much much better players through scouting and staff recommendation. In my Hereford save we won League Two at a canter in the first season, won the JPT in the 3rd season and, after narrowly missing the play-offs twice due to my team being full of scaredy-cats who can't handle a bit of pressure we, finally, won the League One title in the 4th season. When the game crashed 13/14 games in due to a windows fault we were solid top half Championship... all from scouts/staff recommending players!

"I think 08 was that last time I recall my scouts unearthing unknown talent." - Really? In FM09 I unearthed, on average, 5 wonderkids a season... in my Barca save, halfway through September in the first season and I've already had 4 Wonderkid's reports thrust in front of my by my scouts, I've even discarded one as not good enough... The established players that they are finding are all similar in ability to my current squad or better (I've not added nor removed any) and, had I any money (first window turned off), then I could quite easily produce a 3.5star all round team led by the 4 star Messi (really, lol, 4 star for the best player in the game - where does the game get them from?).

You're scouting the wrong places or something...

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As I've not managed a massive club in this or the last version of FM I can only guess but maybe there is a link between club rep & player quality, as I have said I too only play LLM following a zealots path & in my save (I only have 1 save per release) I have noticed a deterioration in scouting returns.

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As I've not managed a massive club in this or the last version of FM I can only guess but maybe there is a link between club rep & player quality, as I have said I too only play LLM following a zealots path & in my save (I only have 1 save per release) I have noticed a deterioration in scouting returns.

I've had no problem with LLM or Top Level Management, as I said, I only use scouting/staff recommendations and I haven't any problems with the quality of player's recommended to me. Hereford are hardly likely to have any sort of reputation, I think they've only been above League One once in their history, we're not exactly attractive and yet the player's I've been recommended have been more than good enough. *shrugs*

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Ok then, the original complaint is invalid!

There, OK, happy now? It's your tactics, or some such rubbish, because I *usually* play LLM by LLM rules and have no problem finding much much better players through scouting and staff recommendation. In my Hereford save we won League Two at a canter in the first season, won the JPT in the 3rd season and, after narrowly missing the play-offs twice due to my team being full of scaredy-cats who can't handle a bit of pressure we, finally, won the League One title in the 4th season. When the game crashed 13/14 games in due to a windows fault we were solid top half Championship... all from scouts/staff recommending players!

"I think 08 was that last time I recall my scouts unearthing unknown talent." - Really? In FM09 I unearthed, on average, 5 wonderkids a season... in my Barca save, halfway through September in the first season and I've already had 4 Wonderkid's reports thrust in front of my by my scouts, I've even discarded one as not good enough... The established players that they are finding are all similar in ability to my current squad or better (I've not added nor removed any) and, had I any money (first window turned off), then I could quite easily produce a 3.5star all round team led by the 4 star Messi (really, lol, 4 star for the best player in the game - where does the game get them from?).

You're scouting the wrong places or something...

I'm doing pretty much the same thing, relying on scout reports and staff recommendation rather than scouting myself, since it seems a bit odd to me to find a player in Brazil, and laud him for his 17 finishing and sign him. And of course, I've been able to make a whole host of excellent signings based on my scouts reports. Having said that, I still think they could do with a lot of improvement.

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It seems that the scout system has been tuned only on the section of reports.

I will keep on scouting players by my self ( the best way ) and I will keep on using scouts just to probe the players' intentions about moving to my team or not.

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The Player Search is populated by players who you would reasonably be expected to know existed based on their reputation and your scouting network. Now if I need the scouts in the first place to know these guys exist why don't Scouts ever seem to do a full scout report on them off their own backs when I send them to the country or region where they play?

I suggest a decent compromise would be to be able to assign your scouts not to countries or regions but to player positions, age ranges, price ranges etc and have them automatically scout all the players who meet the criteria you have set and who you know exist because they appear in your Player search.

You can do this at the moment but you have to do it manually by setting up search criteria in Player search and then selecting each player individual and sending a scout out to him. If you set too many scout assignments at one time they come back incomplete so you have to set a few hit continue read those then set some more. All this does is reward players who have more time and slows down the flow of the game. There's no skill to it and no strategy behind it.

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Scouting could be improved, just like most things in most games when a newer version is in the pipeline.

Im on my 3rd season of a new save, im BV (or SC) Veendem in the Dutch league. Most of the players i have in my first team are from scout reports. But what i usually do is personally check out nations for player i like the look of, THEN get my best coach/scout (best at judging PA/CA) and see what they think, this usually comes good. I have bought about 10 players this way, about 5 just going from the first scouts report and i would say 2/3 are below par from scout reports. Realistic? - I would say so, not every player scouted is a wonderkid/messi. I think i have 1 4.5star player in my squad, an Estionian i got from the free bin, AMR. 45 odd caps, 28 yrs old. Seems a pretty good buy, stats are good, i know he is getting on, and maybe he's a low CA high PA player.

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Now as far as I can tell JA & JP works about as well as expected however' date=' isn't a scouts job to find [b']BETTER [/b]players than you already have?

As a Premier League side I have very good scouts scouting the major European powers including England however, the best recommendation ANY of them have given me is that there "isn't much difference between" the scouted player and what I already have!

I have a squad full of players described as "good signing for most Premier sides". Why are they NEVER finding players described as "leading star for most Premier sides"?

Well here's a question for you.

Would you rather someone who is a "good signing for most Premier sides" but whose attributes are perfect for their position or a "Leading star..." who is only worth a spot in a Championship/League 1 squad attribute wise?

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Well here's a question for you.

Would you rather someone who is a "good signing for most Premier sides" but whose attributes are perfect for their position or a "Leading star..." who is only worth a spot in a Championship/League 1 squad attribute wise?

Generally speaking I think attributes are now irrelevant. The problem is to be good in a certain position requires way too many attributes to be good. The more attributes needed the more irrelevant they become. Simple maths really.

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My scout says a player with PA of 199 will never be good enough for the first team and I should withdraw the offer of £500k. He's 16, CA of 106. A regen quite far in the game (I'm using FMRTE to check).

My scout clearly needs firing.

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I actually feel good when I buy players that my scouts think are not good enough.. it's so satisfying when they perform good. There are a lot of stories where players were not deemed good enough at one club and then had a great career. Wouldn't it be boring if scouts were always right?

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My scout says a player with PA of 199 will never be good enough for the first team and I should withdraw the offer of £500k. He's 16, CA of 106. A regen quite far in the game (I'm using FMRTE to check).

My scout clearly needs firing.

What is the scouts JP ability and most prob the 199 is representation of -10

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Personally, the latter.
Generally speaking I think attributes are now irrelevant. The problem is to be good in a certain position requires way too many attributes to be good. The more attributes needed the more irrelevant they become. Simple maths really.

I think it has been shown in a number of threads as well as any number of actual careers that attributes as some of the most important aspects of a player. How can a winger with 5 for crossing be of any worth to you, even if his ability/potential is Leading Premiership? Attributes dictate how a player plays, how he responds to situations and works within your tactical framework. For me, ignoring them in favour of potential ability is lazy play and not actually understanding how to play the game.

Of course CA/PA correlates with attributes but to ONLY look at CA/PA without looking at a player's skill set and then expect them to perform? In FM 11 there are two different Nanis for United with only one main attribute separating them; his decision making. Pre 11.3 patch, I sell Nani every single time because his lack of decision making is so weak that it puts my entire game plan in jeopardy and I can't trust him to do what needs to be done. Using 11.3, I can comfortable use him knowing that while he may mess up every now and then, he could become the next Ronaldo in regards to number of goals from the wings. All down to a change in attribute, not a change in is CA or PA.

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I think it has been shown in a number of threads as well as any number of actual careers that attributes as some of the most important aspects of a player. How can a winger with 5 for crossing be of any worth to you, even if his ability/potential is Leading Premiership? Attributes dictate how a player plays, how he responds to situations and works within your tactical framework. For me, ignoring them in favour of potential ability is lazy play and not actually understanding how to play the game.

Of course CA/PA correlates with attributes but to ONLY look at CA/PA without looking at a player's skill set and then expect them to perform? In FM 11 there are two different Nanis for United with only one main attribute separating them; his decision making. Pre 11.3 patch, I sell Nani every single time because his lack of decision making is so weak that it puts my entire game plan in jeopardy and I can't trust him to do what needs to be done. Using 11.3, I can comfortable use him knowing that while he may mess up every now and then, he could become the next Ronaldo in regards to number of goals from the wings. All down to a change in attribute, not a change in is CA or PA.

How many wingers have you seen in the game classed as "would be a leading player in any premier side" have a crossing attribute of 5?

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How many wingers have you seen in the game classed as "would be a leading player in any premier side" have a crossing attribute of 5?

The point is for each role there are about ten attributes that need to be at a certain level for the player to be any good if any one of them is low enough the players a duffer.

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5 might have been an exaggeration but the point stands about high CA/PA level players who end up having one or two flaws in their make-up. Such flaws can completely change the effectiveness of the player to where a lower CA/PA player would be a better choice.

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What is the scouts JP ability and most prob the 199 is representation of -10

18 for JA and 19 for JP! I am the biggest club in the world in my game.

Anyway, I signed the guy for £500k.

My own youth products, with my top facilities, state of the art academy and extensive recuitment, often come in under 100 for potential ability. Some of them have abilities of 40 and potential of under 60. I think there's a thread on this somewhere and it does link into scouting as well.

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I think it has been shown in a number of threads as well as any number of actual careers that attributes as some of the most important aspects of a player. How can a winger with 5 for crossing be of any worth to you, even if his ability/potential is Leading Premiership? Attributes dictate how a player plays, how he responds to situations and works within your tactical framework. For me, ignoring them in favour of potential ability is lazy play and not actually understanding how to play the game.

Of course CA/PA correlates with attributes but to ONLY look at CA/PA without looking at a player's skill set and then expect them to perform? In FM 11 there are two different Nanis for United with only one main attribute separating them; his decision making. Pre 11.3 patch, I sell Nani every single time because his lack of decision making is so weak that it puts my entire game plan in jeopardy and I can't trust him to do what needs to be done. Using 11.3, I can comfortable use him knowing that while he may mess up every now and then, he could become the next Ronaldo in regards to number of goals from the wings. All down to a change in attribute, not a change in is CA or PA.

I just don't care. I honestly couldn't tell you what any of my players have for finishing, composure and so on.

I certainly used to, in previous FM games, but I've decided I don't want to do that anymore - for me it makes it less of a game and more of a spreadsheet exercise. Signing a youth player who my scouts think might come good, and watching him play is much more satisfying. If he's got crossing of 5, then he'll probably play really terribly, and I'll sell him on. If he's got crossing of 15, then he'll probably play excellently, and I'll keep him for as long as possible.

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18 for JA and 19 for JP! I am the biggest club in the world in my game.

Anyway, I signed the guy for £500k.

My own youth products, with my top facilities, state of the art academy and extensive recuitment, often come in under 100 for potential ability. Some of them have abilities of 40 and potential of under 60. I think there's a thread on this somewhere and it does link into scouting as well.

The reason your scout didn't recommend him even with 199 in PA is that his current (hidden) mental make-up wouldn't bring him close to reaching that potential.

If you could tutor him to become professional, ambitious, determined and enjoying big matches and pressure... then he could reach that potential. The scouts aren't looking at things like that (neither does Geniescout), that's a judgement you will have to make.

I am glad you signed him, because maybe you succeed in making this "dud" into a "powahnuke" and if so you just tell us all about it here :)

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The reason your scout didn't recommend him even with 199 in PA is that his current (hidden) mental make-up wouldn't bring him close to reaching that potential.

If you could tutor him to become professional, ambitious, determined and enjoying big matches and pressure... then he could reach that potential. The scouts aren't looking at things like that (neither does Geniescout), that's a judgement you will have to make.

I am glad you signed him, because maybe you succeed in making this "dud" into a "powahnuke" and if so you just tell us all about it here :)

I'm going to see what my scouts say about him on a report card, if it's anything like 'has potential to.. but..' and lists his mental attributes as something to work on (some are hidden at the moment, although his personality is 'resolute') then I will be satisfied. Otherwise it seems like the game is missing a trick.

Ok, so I have the report card.

the scout reckons he'd be a decent signing for most Championship clubs

some way off having the potential to be as good as another of my players (an AMC/ST when this guy is just a ST)

potential to be a good Premier League striker in the future.

Then, on the report card, it says:

i have a highly ambitious group of players and this guy is in the same mould.

doesn't have any real weaknesses.

no problems moving to a different country.

2 star potential.

the scout reckons the player will have no intention of joining my side right now.

Big sighs from me. I'm sure there are reasons to justify all this, but:

- they are comparing this player to the wrong one because the AMC/ST I use as AMC.

- good signing (now i presume) for a championship side, potential to be a good prem player but only 2 stars.

- ambitious, no weaknesses, strong team work ethic, no problems adapting that may hinder his development.

- then says that he will have no intention of joining my team, when he has already agreed a deal.

I don't know, it just doesn't seem linked up enough. Glad I don't rely on my scout reports.

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