My Critique of FM10 (long post)

Having played about 300 matches now in FM10 I have a fair impression on the game as a whole, and I have quite a few gripes with it. It is a good game no doubt, but some of these issues (?) should clearly have been ironed out a long time ago.

For one (I don't know if this is just me) roughly 80% of all the attacks started by the AI opposition is in some way connected to a set piece. If they have a throw-in, they have a goal scoring opportunity. If they have a corner they basically have a goal, seeing as my players cannot mark to save their lives. I don't know if it's because of my tactical shortcomings but after tinkering around with set piece instructions and still no real change, I begin to doubt it.

Another thing that bothers me about the ME (and this has also been prevalent in previous FM's) is that when the opposition decides to attack on the off there is basically nothing you can do about it. If you have pacy, opportunistic strikers and tick the counter-attack while trying to deal with the bombardment with the rest of your team, you'd think that there is a good chance to hit them on the break, considering that they're basically attacking with ten men. If I'm facing world-class opposition then fine, I can see how they can bombard me non-stop, but if it's average opposition I'm facing then I should be given a fair chance to counter-attack. This is not the case. If the opposition has decided to attack I can tinker around as much as I want to make it backfire on them, but it won't make a difference. They just keep on coming without a care in the world. I know from experience that if you're arrogant and keep attacking recklessly when the other side have counter-attacking capabilities and a formation suited for such, then you will pay the consequences. If you're human, that is.

That leads me to another thing that I've noticed about FM (not just the 10 release). For lack of a better name I call it the "power play bug" and I don't know if it's even a bug. However, as of right now, I cannot place it in any other category. It manifests when the opposing side are attacking you and you're chasing the ball in your own half. They keep on passing the ball in a manner that would pretty much humble Barcelona (and that's not even a exaggeration) until they finally decide to move in on goal. I say decide because it seems that they're just toying with you. I always try to have the best defence I can muster and even with hard tackling and a DM closing down to disrupt the flow, I cannot break it. It's just not possible. I've watched average teams pass the ball around - without disruption - over forty times in my own half! It goes like this: pass-pass-pass-pass-pass-pass-pass-pass-shot/through ball. You could say that I'm tactically inept but even if I am there HAS to be some degree of trust in your elite players, particularly in those that can defend well. Maybe there is something I'm missing (probably) but I don't know what it is. A slider that is a slightly off?

My critique of the ME continues and this time it's the crossing. In many of the matches I've played so far I've seen some of the most accurate crosses in any FM game ever. Considering that my full backs won't really tackle the wingers, they can run down to the byline and cross it right to the feet to a waiting striker, who is pretty much free because my defenders are suddenly very prone to positional mistakes. But even when my full back is pressuring the winger, the winger just shrugs it off and passes right to the feet of whomever he was aiming for - with 100% accuracy. Crosses that Beckham would maybe be able to pull off after about five attempts. I have conceded so many goals because my defenders are so inferior to the immaculate attacking play of the opposition. Centre backs loses most aerial challenges in the box, even against poor headers. Most crosses from corners or regular play either result in the ball narrowly missing, the keeper intercepting it, or it finding its way into the net. When my centre backs actually head those balls out of the box in these situations it always comes as a surprise to me, because it's so rare.

Nobody likes a lengthy rant - particuarly involving theories of bugs that may or may not exist. But this is the only place I find relevant to write this down. I paid good money for this game so I have a right. I love the glory of taking a club to new heights with a squad that I've put together myself. But there are so many moments during a season where I ask myself if the effort of trying to beat the AI is really worth it. I always try to improve my game but often it feels like the AI is mocking me with exclusive knowledge. Their defenders are always so reliable, never afraid to put in a tackle, even inside their own penalty area. Their attacking play is scintillating - if I don't beat them with a rare display of tactical savvy - and I almost tear my hair out trying to figure out their secret.

Don't get me wrong, I've won great successes so far with Wolfsburg and Lazio and between these two games I've completed seven seasons. In both I've encountered these problems many times. I'm so sick and tired of seeing my centre backs being prone to losing the heading challenge at those crucial moments. I'm sick of defenders conveniently having a temporary spasm which makes them miss the interception, often resulting in a goal that is wholly undeserved. I always try to deserve my goals with a combination of sensible tactics and good man management. I fight for every pass, shot and challenge. That is why I feel bad when the opponents rush me with a free-flowing passing game that cannot be stopped no matter what, backed up by a defence that is extremely reliable and exploiting a cross-into-the-box bug that is not unlike the infamous corner bug. It doesn't feel good when you've bought good centre backs just to have them turn in poor performances when it's not really their fault. It makes it all the more difficult to criticise them afterwards, because I know they did good but were bested by something that I cannot counter. Centre backs are trained to deal with high balls into the box and yet they're beaten again and again and again by inferior aerial players. My keepers have saved me time and again with reflex saves, but it's often unnecessary.

That is my critique of the ME. Much of it is probably just mistakes from my part. I hope.

I'll continue - if anyone is still reading - with other issues that I have with the game. One that immediately springs to mind is the post-match reactions from fans. This new feature is probably the worst that SI have ever implemented. I have never seen anything more pointless and unfair in my entire career playing Football Manager. I'll make an example to clarify my point:

"Fernando Torres had a poor game today, we would have rather seen Voronin in the starting line-up!"

This is just shocking. My team has a poor game and the fans then basically insults me and everything that I've done by saying that I should have consulted my magic crystal ball to perceive the future and drop my star player in favour of a backup player. Come on SI - I know what you're trying to do and it's a step in the right direction, but you failed monumentally with this. Fans are fickle, yes, but not even the most picky would say that I should have played my backup player instead of my star player in an important game. There has to be some basis for this criticism of my choice of players. You should have realised this when you implemented it, and as a result we have yet another poorly conceived feature in the game. The argument that Rome isn't built in a day doesn't hold up either. I paid full price for this game and that's that.

The press conferences are still very poor, even after the purported update that doesn't even seem to be there. One example is the first press conference that you attend as a manager for a club. They're all the same. Literally. I think many of us have gone through countless introductory conferences and we all know that they're basically identical to each other, with the same exact questions being asked - word for word. Would it have killed you to write some more or rephrasing these questions? If you would've given me a week I would've come up 80+ different questions for the first press conference alone. The questions would probably not have been as professionally written as yours but there would have been some variety at least. The first press conference is identical to the one in FM09 with one or two questions perhaps being new but the rest has remained exactly the same. This is very disappointing and there isn't really any excuse for it. It isn't complicated to write questions and possible answers. Some of us play 20+ seasons and one thing that can keep it interesting are varied press conferences. Yet I see the same questions being asked, many copied directly from FM09, over and over again and I just can't bother with them anymore.

Then we have the end of the season. I have just won the league, the cup and I'm exhausted, and happy. It's a fine accomplishment for any club. The board says that they always expected that I would be able to win and asks me to focus on future challenges (or something like that). I've just given them new trophies and everyone's celebrating, except them. A season has been ended, after so much toil, and that's all that they have to say to me. Every time it's the same. Every time I win something they say they always expected it. Would a pat on the shoulder and some champagne kill them? This makes all of my efforts feel hollow in some way, because at the end of a glorious season I know what to expect. The same sentence - copied from the previous FM's - and nothing else. Nothing.

I think I need to end this now. I've written far too much already. However, this is my critique of the game. If my points are valid or not remains to be seen. The ME issues are either my ineptitude or a legitimate problem. I hope it's the former.

I'll just post to say that I actually read this post till the end. I totally agree about error-prone defenders, also boring press-conferences when you get a new job. Not sure about perfect crossing and other points here, but maybe I just haven't noticed tham.

The thing that is bugging me more than anything is that you tend to know when you're going to lose. So far, in my career, I seem to have crossed the paths of several black cats, walked under countless ladders and stepped on every crack in every pavement during 75% of my losses so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/delenfent/BAH-1.jpg

I'd realised I was going to lose this game, no matter what I did in the 33rd minute. A penalty miss, utterly dominating the opposition, striker missing 5 one-on-ones, goals disallowed, yet even the commentary says it should have been given.. It was obvious.

I know it's my tactics/team talks/bad buys, but it's frustrating to know you've lost no matter what, that early in a game.

Press conferences are always tedious.

To the OP: Can't say I've seen these perfect AI defenders you speak of or their inch-perfect crosses (but I haven't played FM2010 that much yet so maybe that's still to come!) and you still seem to win stuff, so surely it can't be that bad?

I suspect the second patch will be well into development as there are so many bugs with the rushed first patch.

To AB-forever:

Bad and bad, it's not a catastrophe, but it is irritating when it occurs. I haven't been able to determine if it's in my head or if there is some kind of subtle bias in how the AI plays, in comparison to my players. The crossing problem is not rampant - it's just weird seeing regular players making that inch-perfect bound-to-be legendary assist, where the ball flies down into the penalty area and is sucked to the striker's foot, before he smashes it into the net. Whether it's from deep or from the byline, it doesn't matter. I don't mean that this should never happen, I just want some moderation because they happen very rarely. The problem can be that my defenders just isn't applying enough pressure, giving them too much time on the ball to make these passes and crosses into the box. I just don't know. But that is not my main concern however. It's in the periphery of my gripes and certainly not in league with the "that was a lovely move by X!" occurence that frequently humiliates my entire defence, no matter what my setup may be. Or the first-shot-first-goal occurrence that has haunted me since FM07 (or 08, can't remember).

No doubt about it, the ME is a mystery and at the lack of proper answers, wild conspiracy theories are born, some out of frustration, self-denial or legitimate concerns. I suspect I fit in all of those categories. I want to believe that the ME judges human and computer in the same way but I still have my doubts, particularly in the defensive aspect of the game.

Good post & agree 100%

good post

+ press conferences; each time I accept to present a new transfered player I get zillions of stupid/similar questions till I go mad and go away... does it ever end?

+ the player is NEVER happy about what i said on the conference... waaaw, again NO BUG of course

I have 1 question for SI:

Is there 1 part/1 thing in this game, just 1 thing without a bug ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I have 1 question for SI:

Is there 1 part/1 thing in this game, just 1 thing without a bug ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Unlikely, I think for that to happen FM would need to go to a bigger game studio. Even then there would be bugs, just fewer.

And also the support would be a lot better, as would communication.

Burgshield: Just out of interest, are you using the wizard to set your defenders' instructions?

I agree with a lot of the OP with the exception of the crossing issue. I watch extended highlights and it seems every single time one of my players, or the opposition players gets into a position to cross the ball there is only one outcome.... Corner.

It genuinely does my nut in! I'm doing fine at the minute and scoring goals, but I play with inside forwards and a lone striker and should be relying on cut backs from the by-line to source a lot of goals. This rarely happens though, as my "inside forwards" are normally busy driving into the corner flag regardless how favourable the situation is in the box. This is obviously followed by a corner directly to the keeper.

I know what your onabout with the teams playin like barcalona, i am currently southampton and i was playing BRIGHTON at home they completly outplayed me i think they would of beaten anyteam in the world with the passing they was doing, it was all 1 touch quick passing football aswell their was no way i was going to beat them, its stupid cause they could never play as good as they did like that in real life, i also agree with all the other problems you mentioned by the wa, ecspecially the press conferences the are so boring, its even wore when iv lost and iv got to attend one i just send my asistant cuz im so fed up with them, but i still love fm and ill never stop playing it because with all the problems its got i never really notice them untill i read posts like this.

AB-forever:

Well I generally move positions around into a desired formation on the tactics screen and then assign my players different roles that I find pertinent. I've never been good at micro-management though. Then I set a suitable philosophy and style, opposition instructions and then play. After struggling defensively I went to Very Rigid and it became somewhat better. But I still can't understand why my centre backs underperform in the air though, especially at corners. I usually set tall players at the posts or more likely marking other tall players. Another trend that I'm seeing is the slow reaction when the ball is loose in the box after a corner. There's not been many occasions when one of my players have actually been the first on the ball to clear it.

Fabregas_04:

I suspect that the crossing thing is just in my head. I generally watch my matches with key highlights, so of course I'm going to see the crosses that DO make it, or are at least dangerous. The crossing was a bad example from my part. I was probably influenced by a match I played not long before I wrote the first post where some player from an Italian relegation candidate made an absolutely perfect cross from deep. My stance on corners remain though.

Then we have the end of the season. I have just won the league, the cup and I'm exhausted, and happy. It's a fine accomplishment for any club. The board says that they always expected that I would be able to win and asks me to focus on future challenges (or something like that). I've just given them new trophies and everyone's celebrating, except them. A season has been ended, after so much toil, and that's all that they have to say to me. Every time it's the same. Every time I win something they say they always expected it. Would a pat on the shoulder and some champagne kill them? This makes all of my efforts feel hollow in some way, because at the end of a glorious season I know what to expect. The same sentence - copied from the previous FM's - and nothing else. Nothing.

I agree entirely with this point in particular, 100%. Each new season feels like the beginning of a new game and there is nothing to link the previous season to the next. Very unrewarding.

Great post. Initially I felt the closing down was acceptable but I had to realise that while AI teams harass you with extreme effectiveness, you can't do the same. I'm, like you, fed up with being totally outpassed by crap teams.

There's one more thing doing my head in: my players, goalkeeper included, simply don't go for loose balls. Or if they do, they just walk like some rheumatic turtle. When the opposition gets it, they start running so the opp player simply knocks the ball past them and he's clear... very, very annoying. I conceded many goals after my defenders' reluctance to run prevented them from getting the ball. And it really should not be a tactical issue: if he can get there before the opposition, he should get there. End of.

Agree with this critique 100%.

I was playing as Arsenal once, at home to Everton, chasing the game after they took a shock lead (from a 30 yarder no less). Now in real life, if any team is chasing the game against inferior oppasition at home then surely possesion must be in the home teams favour, or at least the general play. So how did Everton manage to string 20 passes together between 3 players? My left back and left winger were hopeless chasing the ball around as three Everton players passed it about in a triangle, toying with them. I'm thinking to myself, how the hell can this happen? Surely my defender would've gotten the ball back or at least fouled one of them, but he didn't get close to the defender even once.

And then there's the countless times an inferior team strokes the ball about a few times and then scores from 30 or so yards with first time hit that bamboozles the keeper - the fact that the shooter has 5 for long shots makes it even more infuriating.

The guy's in the tactics forum claim that there's nothing wrong with the defending in this game but quite clearly there is.

Very good post, and I agree with almost all of it. I only just got the full game yesterday, so most of my experience is from the demo, but from what I am reading (and I read a lot of different opinions o the forum)it doesn’t look like much has changed for the first patch. Like others have said, I still love playing this game and the ME does produce some beautiful (and realistic) football moments, but there are some glaring issues that IMO should not have gotten through all the testing.

In particular the poor marking and defending, nearly every cross leading to a deflection that ALWAYS goes out for a corner (why do deflections never go back into play???), and far too many blocked/deflected shots. The cross/deflections issue is so bad that I have stopped playing with wide attacking players, simply because I have found myself saying “this will be deflected for a corner” every time a player takes the ball wide….and 95% of the time it is. While I do have confidence that many of these issues will eventually be addressed/’toned down’ in patches, they are also similar issues that have been in effect in previous versions and you would think by now that SI would do a better job of testing before release.

I also agree with the comments about media/press conferences and player interaction. Again I was excited to see in the promo stuff that these had been improved, however this is still the worst area of the game in my opinion and should be a key focus for FM 11. To me, if FM is to live up to its name as the ultimate management sim, then it needs to pay equal regard to both the game side (ie tactics/squad management/transfers/training etc) and the player management side. My experience with FM10 so far has unearthed some crazy reactions from players to what seem like positive (or neutral) comments to the media. This is compounded by the fact that we still don’t have an adequate way of interacting directly with individual players.

So I too have some serious critiques of the current versions, and the frustrating thing is that many of these criticisms are not ‘new’ to FM10. Again, I still really enjoy the game and can definitely see where improvements have been made, but there is clearly still a lot of room for improvement.

Very good post, and I agree with almost all of it. I only just got the full game yesterday, so most of my experience is from the demo, but from what I am reading (and I read a lot of different opinions o the forum)it doesn’t look like much has changed for the first patch. Like others have said, I still love playing this game and the ME does produce some beautiful (and realistic) football moments, but there are some glaring issues that IMO should not have gotten through all the testing.

In particular the poor marking and defending, nearly every cross leading to a deflection that ALWAYS goes out for a corner (why do deflections never go back into play???), and far too many blocked/deflected shots. The cross/deflections issue is so bad that I have stopped playing with wide attacking players, simply because I have found myself saying “this will be deflected for a corner” every time a player takes the ball wide….and 95% of the time it is. While I do have confidence that many of these issues will eventually be addressed/’toned down’ in patches, they are also similar issues that have been in effect in previous versions and you would think by now that SI would do a better job of testing before release.

I also agree with the comments about media/press conferences and player interaction. Again I was excited to see in the promo stuff that these had been improved, however this is still the worst area of the game in my opinion and should be a key focus for FM 11. To me, if FM is to live up to its name as the ultimate management sim, then it needs to pay equal regard to both the game side (ie tactics/squad management/transfers/training etc) and the player management side. My experience with FM10 so far has unearthed some crazy reactions from players to what seem like positive (or neutral) comments to the media. This is compounded by the fact that we still don’t have an adequate way of interacting directly with individual players.

So I too have some serious critiques of the current versions, and the frustrating thing is that many of these criticisms are not ‘new’ to FM10. Again, I still really enjoy the game and can definitely see where improvements have been made, but there is clearly still a lot of room for improvement.

The ME is flawed for sure but I'm not sure the flaws work in anyone's favour...it seems even to me.

The other points are valid but minor...IMO.

Let's face it...had we been managing Man Utd last night vs Chelsea many would have complained they dominated...had more possession, more shots on goal and yet the AI sneaked a win...all too unfair.

It happens.

The points on the ME are valid but I see no bias in who it favours.

The rest is true but cosmetic.

Ultimately...it's as realistic as you'll get...yes we always want more...but unless someone else is giving you it...

Isn't it funny how every FM has needed at least two to three patches before it was really worth playing.

Sports Interactive need to sort it but ultimately won't.

Isn't it funny how every FM has needed at least two to three patches before it was really worth playing.

Sports Interactive need to sort it but ultimately won't.

How many other games come out once a year?

Some sequels take many years...

You and your continual 'bug' posts would be one of the first to complain if it never came out one year to perfect it.

Jeez...

Do you have any idea what re-writing a game a year involves?

Yet all you do is moan...moan...buy it...then moan then moan again.

Ever thought of praising these guys sometimes?

Isn't it funny how every FM has needed at least two to three patches before it was really worth playing.

Sports Interactive need to sort it but ultimately won't.

That's precisely why i'll be waiting for the patches before/if buying it.

How many other games come out once a year?

Some sequels take many years...

Surely though if it's not ready then don't release it. You pay good money for something you ultimately want to work. Would you pay for something that didn't work?

I've learnt in recent years to wait as previously i've gone out and bought it on release day only to be disappointed and left very frustrated. Whilst some people can play a game 'half finished', I can't.

That's precisely why i'll be waiting for the patches before/if buying it.

Surely though if it's not ready then don't release it. You pay good money for something you ultimately want to work. Would you pay for something that didn't work?

I've learnt in recent years to wait as previously i've gone out and bought it on release day only to be disappointed and left very frustrated. Whilst some people can play a game 'half finished', I can't.

It's worked for me.

I'm sorry it hasn't for you.

I can live with minor issues when it is quite clearly the best football management sim available.

If anyone has major issues then I understand but I haven't and as such, can only speak for me on that...I try to help others who have.

How is it half-finished?

Do tell.

Yes it could be better...yes there are flaws...yes there are some bugs...first patch fixed most...

The others (even pre patch) weren't game breakers...

What football manager sim is better?

How many other games come out once a year?

Some sequels take many years...

You and your continual 'bug' posts would be one of the first to complain if it never came out one year to perfect it.

Jeez...

Do you have any idea what re-writing a game a year involves?

Yet all you do is moan...moan...buy it...then moan then moan again.

Ever thought of praising these guys sometimes?

Do you work for SI? On comission?

The game has many flaws in it right now, and every FM release has been the same.

SI choose to release it yearly, if they can't cope with that they could change it.

Do you work for SI? On comission?

The game has many flaws in it right now, and every FM release has been the same.

SI choose to release it yearly, if they can't cope with that they could change it.

No I don't.

I'm a teacher...but I know enough about game design to know it's tough to do a game a year without flaws.

Would you be happier with a game every two years with a capability of the second patch to be issued at the current level?

Consumers demand this game a year.

You are a consumer...buy something else then...or campaign for longer release dates...SI cater to you.

Most people love it....and that...is the truth...economic and from a gamer perspective.

No I don't.

I'm a teacher...but I know enough about game design to know it's tough to do a game a year without flaws.

Would you be happier with a game every two years with a capability of the second patch to be issued at the current level?

Consumers demand this game a year.

You are a consumer...buy something else then...or campaign for longer release dates...SI cater to you.

Most people love it....and that...is the truth...economic and from a gamer perspective.

Well you seem happy to pay for a game that you admit is flawed. Not everyone is.

I don't mind a game coming out every two years. The changes between each years release is not usually big similar to EA FIFA releases.

I'm disappointed that after over 6 years now SI appear to have learnt little about releasing games/testing/supporting.

I mean to be honest I don't see the next patch coming until Dec or end of transfer window.

Well you seem happy to pay for a game that you admit is flawed. Not everyone is.

I don't mind a game coming out every two years. The changes between each years release is not usually big similar to EA FIFA releases.

I'm disappointed that after over 6 years now SI appear to have learnt little about releasing games/testing/supporting.

I mean to be honest I don't see the next patch coming until Dec or end of transfer window.

I do.

It is flawed...as are all the football manager games.

This has the least flaws and the best experience IMO.

You're frustrated at it's failed potential...I understand that.

I also understand what it must be like keeping having to produce a very popular game a year...making it better all the time.

You pays your money you makes your choice....this is the BEST you will get of football management.

Whether you praise its achievements or criticise its flaws is up to you.

But there is no better and you know that...campaign for a better product less regularly given then...

The VAST majority of consumers however disagree....they buy it in volumes and demand it once a year.

If...a big if..the flaws were so great....it simply wouldn't sell so.

They're not....you want something that realistically, can't be achieved...yet.

But they're close....give them a chance and try to enjoy what you have.

Or....

Play the alternatives.....*oh dear*

I agree with the original poster. I started off liking this version a lot, but over the past week or so I have just become frustrated with the match engine and some of the features and I have begun to feel like FM seems to be getting slightly more frustrating each year. Maybe it's just me getting older.

At the moment I think there are just too many variables that have an impact on the result of the game. I'm talking about press conferences, team talks, pitch sizes, player interaction etc etc. Yes I'm sure all these have an effect on matches in real life, but in the game these features are somtimes far too ambiguous, and the results of misusing them are far too harsh.

For example, with press conferences, if I leave them to the assistant is that going to cost me points over the course of a season? In which case I have to go through the boredom of picking the same middle of the road answers every week. For me it's a pointless feature the way it is currently implemented because it adds repetition into the game, which you have the choice to either conduct on a weekly basis, or take a performance penalty because your assistant sometimes puts the wrong answer in accordance with his attributes.

AB-forever:

Fabregas_04:

I suspect that the crossing thing is just in my head. I generally watch my matches with key highlights, so of course I'm going to see the crosses that DO make it, or are at least dangerous.

The same should apply to various other points -- It might seem that an opponent striker constantly outpaced or outjumped your defender with higher pace/jumping whatever, but look at the stats it might be an exaggeration.

We all know frustrations, but maybe a criticism based on a few full-match view experiences can be more justified. Have you watched a few full matches and feel frustrated as well? (I did 4-5 times and most of them seem more exciting actually...)

Great post, I respect the fact that you didn't scream, shout and whinge your way through your complaints either.

To me this is the first FM since 2007 that has been good to play right away, and IMO the best FM ever. I'm really enjoying my game at the moment, but I do get a bit annoyed by the AI sometimes.

For example, I played a Europa League qualifier against Rijeka (sp?) from Croatia as Aberdeen away from home and lost 4-2. The game crashed soon after, so after reloading, I played the same tie, against a different team, Brno (CZE). Guess what, another 4-2 defeat in a similar fashion, with the opponents flying at the very start of the game. They went 3-0 up in the first half, and it seemed I couldn't do anything about it. They went 4-0 up before I decided 'to hell with it' and switched to an attacking strategy. This got me two goals before the end. We went on to draw the home leg 0-0.

I know my tactics aren't great, and I conceded nearly two goals a game the year before, but I can't help feeling I'm out of Europe due to circumstances out of my control. I used the same strategy (with a few tweaks based on staff advice) a week later and demolished Hearts 4-0 away from home, who are a better side, so I don't know.

I agree with the original poster. I started off liking this version a lot, but over the past week or so I have just become frustrated with the match engine and some of the features and I have begun to feel like FM seems to be getting slightly more frustrating each year. Maybe it's just me getting older.

At the moment I think there are just too many variables that have an impact on the result of the game. I'm talking about press conferences, team talks, pitch sizes, player interaction etc etc. Yes I'm sure all these have an effect on matches in real life, but in the game these features are somtimes far too ambiguous, and the results of misusing them are far too harsh.

For example, with press conferences, if I leave them to the assistant is that going to cost me points over the course of a season? In which case I have to go through the boredom of picking the same middle of the road answers every week. For me it's a pointless feature the way it is currently implemented because it adds repetition into the game, which you have the choice to either conduct on a weekly basis, or take a performance penalty because your assistant sometimes puts the wrong answer in accordance with his attributes.

This is the one bit that gets me. In real life, the outcome of a press conference probably affects a game about 2 or 3 times during a season, and that's because one manager has said a boneheaded comment which has spurred the opposition on, i.e. in a Man Utd/Liverpool clash or something like that.

It would be nice if the effects were much more subtle, because then, there wouldn't be one 'right' answer with the rest not being as 'right'. It would be nice if your answers shaped your off-pitch personality as a manager a lot more than your team's performance.

Until further patching, FM10 appears to be a dressed-up version of FM09. Only now AI-controlled players outperform their stats even more, can score almost whenever they need do, and pass the ball around like it's magnetically pulled to their feet. Does any manager in real-life use as many tactical changes as the AI-controlled managers? I've seen teams change from defensive to regular and back to defensive in the space of a few minutes. How would a real-life manager do this anyway to completely change a team's style of play in a few minutes? He'd have to be God-like. Footy can be a rough game in real life - in this game - everyone's afraid to touch each other - this is more like Pro Basketball 09. I'm not going to put in the time to try and beat a match engine that just doesn't feel real - I want to learn how a real manager would do it. It's a shame, because the scouting that goes into this game is great - and I feel that a more realistic match engine should be made to utilize all of the great player ratings.

Until further patching, FM10 appears to be a dressed-up version of FM09. Only now AI-controlled players outperform their stats even more, can score almost whenever they need do, and pass the ball around like it's magnetically pulled to their feet. Does any manager in real-life use as many tactical changes as the AI-controlled managers? I've seen teams change from defensive to regular and back to defensive in the space of a few minutes. How would a real-life manager do this anyway to completely change a team's style of play in a few minutes? He'd have to be God-like. Footy can be a rough game in real life - in this game - everyone's afraid to touch each other - this is more like Pro Basketball 09. I'm not going to put in the time to try and beat a match engine that just doesn't feel real - I want to learn how a real manager would do it. It's a shame, because the scouting that goes into this game is great - and I feel that a more realistic match engine should be made to utilize all of the great player ratings.

Good shout.

I think it says a lot that no one from SI is taking it upon themselves to comment.

It's worked for me.

I'm sorry it hasn't for you.

I can live with minor issues when it is quite clearly the best football management sim available.

If anyone has major issues then I understand but I haven't and as such, can only speak for me on that...I try to help others who have.

How is it half-finished?

Do tell.

Yes it could be better...yes there are flaws...yes there are some bugs...first patch fixed most...

The others (even pre patch) weren't game breakers...

What football manager sim is better?

I can't say whether or not it's worked for me as I haven't bought the game yet. I made the mistake of buying the game on release date in previous years and for me it just wasn't up to scratch as i'd expect it to be until the patches were released. For me it's not a case of buying the best football sim available regardless of it's flaws (major or minor), it's a matter of I want to buy something that's finished and playable. I want to spend my hard earned money on something I know will work properly. As for the game being half finished...i've been reading GD for some time now, especially to gauge some idea of how FM10 is playing. From people's responses there seems to be problems with crash dumps, penalty shoout wins when you clearly lose, the list goes on...just read GD. I appreciate the hard work SI put in to produce FM and, granted it's a great franchise and when done properly, a great game. I do think though that they shouldn't released a game half finished and for this I blame SI partly but mostly SEGA. It's a money orientated business and SEGA want the game out before xmas. Sadly there aren't enough hours in the day for SI to produce a perfect game in such a short time period and SEGA should see this...but they don't care about customer satisfaction...only sales figures. If they did they wouldn't release a game every year 'half finished'.

Your point about what other better footy sim is available (regardless of it's flaws) i'm afraid doesn't wash with me as if I pay money for something I want it to work, no matter what product it is. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, I have done for the past 17 years but I've learnt from my mistakes in the past and will be patient until the game is fixed.

No I don't.

I'm a teacher...but I know enough about game design to know it's tough to do a game a year without flaws.

Then don't release it every year.

Good shout.

I think it says a lot that no one from SI is taking it upon themselves to comment.

Nothing to do with it being half past three in the morning UK time, then?

Good post, mate! I agree with some of your comments!

Nothing to do with it being half past three in the morning UK time, then?

In general.

And to back this up, check this thread:

http://forums.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=161974

Why has that thread got anything to do with you? If you keep up this type of attitude you will pick up warnings or infractions for trolling. You have every right to be critical, but not to trawl through threads to snipe.

I think its a great OP and probably about 97% correct.

I'm still playing the Demo and will continue to do so until i have read from enough people who's opinions i trust that the full game is worth purchasing.

There is no doubt that FM is still by far the best Footy Man game on the market, but to me the last few yers it has just been the best of a bad bunch.

I posted about defending issues soon after the patch came out, now i had a chance to Beta test this game so i could ultimately take some of the blame, but, as SI are not considering it much of an issue, i felt my reason of "whats the point?" has been justified.

I have a suggestion, although i have no idea how valid it is?

Would it be possible to set a small team of SI employees to one side with their sole purpose to work on a list of issues one by one and implementing each fix into the game? this could continue all year long and you could also get some willing FM'ers to continue testing throughout the year so that the next time the game is released it could hopefully then be largely free from bugs and other issues.

Once the ME is largely perfected there would be no reason to have to change it year after year, as long as it was balanced correctly and was not prone to buckling to "Super Tactics" you would have achieved the ultimate goal and no longer would FM'ers feel like a relative "newby" everytime a new game is released.

Why has that thread got anything to do with you? If you keep up this type of attitude you will pick up warnings or infractions for trolling. You have every right to be critical, but not to trawl through threads to snipe.

Because as a Mac user we got a pretty raw deal last year with patch releases.

And as shown by that thread another Mac user is getting rather poor support. Again.

I agree for the defense problem : you will see the players static, not moving till the ball is not "near" them. FM is lacking in player movements, I hope it will improve for the next patches. We want players to move, to fight for the ball, in order to complicate the task of the AI to find the solution like in reality.

Thanks to SI to improve that.

I have another weak point : I don't see the tireness effetc in the match enough. during 90 min, the players should not be able to run so much, and you should be able to see the weak player tired in order to change him ( the phisical condition is not giving you enough indication for a tired player on the pitch ).

Thanks.

I have another weak point : I don't see the tireness effetc in the match enough. during 90 min, the players should not be able to run so much, and you should be able to see the weak player tired in order to change him ( the phisical condition is not giving you enough indication for a tired player on the pitch ).

Thanks.

When it drops below 70 the colour changes, isn't that enough indication?

I believe the assistant manager start saying someone's exhausted when the condition is still in 70s though.

Maybe SI could do what I have suggested before...release a patch with the major fixes on soon as possible. Then for next years just improve on this game version..dont make a fresh start but tweak this one to improve the match engine, update player stats and then a few new minor features such as changing ticket price etc..

The "power play bug" is something I have griped about since FM05!

But it seems to be only in Key Highlights, as soon as the Key Highlight starts I can tell who is going to have the pop at goal due to who is playing like Brazil.....then the next Key Highlight it will roles reversed.

It wa pointed out time ago that if you watch a game in Extended Highlights or even Full Match this does not happen and it is true yet the same results to your matches apply.

Also SI didn't think I was right when I mentioned it and it may be it was just my perception but I agree that it "seems" like some sort of power play!

Have to agree with everything in the opening post.

Very well put together and executed, which is nice to see =)

The ME is flawed for sure but I'm not sure the flaws work in anyone's favour...it seems even to me.

The other points are valid but minor...IMO.

Let's face it...had we been managing Man Utd last night vs Chelsea many would have complained they dominated...had more possession, more shots on goal and yet the AI sneaked a win...all too unfair.

It happens.

The points on the ME are valid but I see no bias in who it favours.

The rest is true but cosmetic.

Ultimately...it's as realistic as you'll get...yes we always want more...but unless someone else is giving you it...

Are you sure you are quoting me here, because where in my post have i suggested that the ME favours anyone, or that the dominant team with the most possession should always win? I haven't because this would be unrealistic, and that is my main argument. My comments were about the issues within the current ME (that many other posters have also commented on and which SI have also acknowledged) which make it unrealistic compared to real football.

While i respect your opinion, to me you are essentially suggesting that because the game is good overall (and the best of its kind around) that any critique of the game is unwarranted. I think its fair to say that if people on this forum didn't point out the weaker points of the game, then the game would not have developed to the level that it has. SI themselves have basically stated this. The other point is that some of these weaknesses became apparent to players within hours of the demo release, so how could they possibly have escaped the 'vigorous' testing of SI and their team of volunteer testers?

As a teacher, i seriously hope you teach your students to critique rather than to just accept what they are told or given. I...also....hope....you....teach....them how to.....write...better than....you do....in your....posts!!!!!

The "power play bug" is something I have griped about since FM05!

But it seems to be only in Key Highlights, as soon as the Key Highlight starts I can tell who is going to have the pop at goal due to who is playing like Brazil.....then the next Key Highlight it will roles reversed.

It wa pointed out time ago that if you watch a game in Extended Highlights or even Full Match this does not happen and it is true yet the same results to your matches apply.

Also SI didn't think I was right when I mentioned it and it may be it was just my perception but I agree that it "seems" like some sort of power play!

I guess it is there to make sure you don't string a record breaking string of wins with your all powerful and invincible team Gone were the days when you can win from start of the season till end of the season.

I hope SI will remove it away to let us have the feel again. I promise I don't complain about the game being too easy

i've previously been very critical of SI/FM but i've really enjoyed fm10 so far but i came in with minimal expectations after a terrible effort that was 9.0.0/1/2 of last year (9.0.3 was playable, at least). the OP does make very important points re. press conferences (lol at all the hyping of media module evolution prior to release), lack of connection between seasons and there's other things to improve on top such as the training and scouting modules imo. but they've done a lot of work with the game with the tactical interface and UI generally to make the game enjoyable at least, although there is one serious issue i have.

that is 'defending', not in the sense as the OP describes it but in the sense that defensive players are just not as good as they should be and i'm finding the game a bit too easy at the moment (i've won EPL in my first season as spurs, second too and went out in the CL semis to edin dzeko) because strikers just can't seem to stop scoring despite what i do. defoe has 27 in 33 in 2 seasons (as 4th choice), crouch has something like 70 in 80, suarez 40 in 60, defederico 30 in 40. and it's just not my team, every half decent named striker i've looked at in the game is scoring at a ratio better than .60 goals per game, at the very least. i'm afraid i've stopped playing my spurs game that i cherished dearly as i was cultivating some youth products because it's annoying watch defenders simply let crouch get a free shot in or press excessively leaving ludicrous amount of space for my offensive players to exploit. not that it's all one way, there's plenty of opposition strikers who have some joy vs me too, but obviously being a human manager i've got an insane advantage in being able to adapt to their weaknesses.

Firstable, I rarely see less than 70% during the season ( in pre-season yes )

How you see it on the pitch when player are tired ?

When it drops below 70 the colour changes, isn't that enough indication?

I believe the assistant manager start saying someone's exhausted when the condition is still in 70s though.