Does the game cheat?

Reason I ask this as sometimes if your team isnt firing in all cylinders then it becomes impossible to turn it around.

Im Palace in the championship with a media prediction of 3rd. I slipped up to 17th with default tactics.

Im now using a download tactic which is brilliant. Dominating play, getting tons of clear cut chances and shots on goal to my opponent but my stikers now cant seem to score with all these new chances. The post gets hit so many times and I cant beleive some of the sitters missed on the 3d screen.

Then as norm the away team score with every 2nd chance!!!

Anybody else experienced this?

No.

Try playing a friendly against your reserves to keep morale up. Morale is very important.

No doubt people will say its your tactics but I believe the game has to cheat in order to stop every game being 12-0 if you have fantastic tactics. Just about every game in existence cheats in order to try and make the experience for the user better.

eg, FPS when you run past a window and you get shot from the inside which is impossible, catchup on racing games and the ai also kept on scoring with terrible shots from centre ice on the NHL series if you were going to shut them out without them getting any good chances.

Awesome. Haven't seen a cheating AI thread in ages.

Got up to 14th with 6 games left. No play offs im afraid.

Last game at home vs QPR, 2-2

12 (3ccc) shots to 4 (1ccc)

56% of the ball also.

Chance after chance went 1-0 up then 2-1 up but I knew they would come back and draw 2-2 with just one go. Im ready to throw this laptop out the window if I get sacked, lol.

Yes, it does. It hates you. You should be carefull, cause now it's cheating you, next week it'll try to kill you!

Awesome. Haven't seen a cheating AI thread in ages.

It was worth coming in here, just to read that.

**posts screenie of my teams 46 shots-on-target to 1 goal, and opponents 1 shot and 1 goal**

Lol, just had to get out my frustrations onto the forum.

Just find the game impossible no matter what I do if you lose morale and get a few bad results. Feel the AI stops you sometimes from turning things round.

Lol, just had to get out my frustrations onto the forum.

Just find the game impossible no matter what I do if you lose morale and get a few bad results. Feel the AI stops you sometimes from turning things round.

Thats FM all over. When things are going well, its the best game in the world. When you do bad, you want to put a firm fist into your laptop screen/monitor.

Cheating? If anything the AI is at a disadvantage

Cheating? If anything the AI is at a disadvantage

How? With the way it can make instant tactical changes whils we have to navigate around to do it?

So far I don't think any of the claims made in this thread corresspond with how the game actually works.

So far I don't think any of the claims made in this thread corresspond with how the game actually works.

No, the game does cheat. Because when my Dorchester team played Peterborough in the FA Cup Second Round, they lost 2-1. So there. It does cheat 100%.

Again 2-0 over blackpool cruising then 85min pen, 2-1 and then a cross from 40yards out creeps past my goalie and in the net in the 92nd min, lol!

You cant make this up!

Again 2-0 over blackpool cruising then 85min pen, 2-1 and then a cross from 40yards out creeps past my goalie and in the net in the 92nd min, lol!

You cant make this up!

Champions league final 1999. Was the AI cheating then?

How? With the way it can make instant tactical changes whils we have to navigate around to do it?

You can press the pause button to make "instant changes". The AI still has to wait for their changes to take effect just like you or me.

It's pretty obvious how we have the advantages in outsmarting the AI, I shouldn't have to explain them

I'll tell you this though, the ME doesn't suddenly stop and think "Hmm, this guy is getting too many good results, I'll cheat and give myself a 5-0 win for the fun of it"

Again 2-0 over blackpool cruising then 85min pen, 2-1 and then a cross from 40yards out creeps past my goalie and in the net in the 92nd min, lol!

You cant make this up!

3-1 agaisnt bottom of the table Cuddlechester, cruising, woe be me, they get a penalty in the 85th, it hits the bar and goes in, next thing you know they've equalised with a run and shot from Tim Slacks. It ends 3-3

Yeah, you can make it up.

1-3 up against a dominant Arsenal side at Emirates. They get one back and then go to 3-3 around 88th. I make it 3-4 in the 92nd minute. Am I cheating then?

Maybe Im just the fm Neil Warnock Im at the right club.

Just hope they renew my contract!

You can press the pause button to make "instant changes". The AI still has to wait for their changes to take effect just like you or me.

I dont believe it does, they make changes directly after goals and its the goals that cause the change. We have to wait until the ball goes out of play and sometimes it has to go out of play several times to take effect.

The ai always knows a players release fee too when theres a ai to ai transfer.

The ai and human are not treated the same just as they arent in virtually any game.

Also I think everyone isnt getting that it just isnt 1 game where I would say fair enough, my team was just unlucky there.

1-1 swansea score 84min to draw

2-2 qpr score 83min to draw

1-2 southampton score 92min to win

1-1 bristol city score 93min to draw

2-2 blackpool score 91min to draw

Cost me 13 pts in the last 9 games. I dominated everyone of those games (possesion, ccc & shots)

I dont believe it does, they make changes directly after goals and its the goals that cause the change. We have to wait until the ball goes out of play and sometimes it has to go out of play several times to take effect.

The ai always knows a players release fee too when theres a ai to ai transfer.

The ai and human are not treated the same just as they arent in virtually any game.

The ball is out of play, directly after a goal. :confused:

I dont believe it does, they make changes directly after goals and its the goals that cause the change. We have to wait until the ball goes out of play and sometimes it has to go out of play several times to take effect.

The ai always knows a players release fee too when theres a ai to ai transfer.

The ai and human are not treated the same just as they arent in virtually any game.

The point is the AI can only bring on players when the ball goes out of play, therefore AI and humans work by the same rules.

So what if the AI knows the players release fee? How many super teams do you see after 5 seasons in the game? There's little point in the AI knowing this if they can't utilise it to effectively buy players who will significantly improve their team. Instead they buy dross or average joes who won't improve their standings. How many super kids do Barcelona or Real Madrid buy?

What do human managers do? Build up a squad of players with awesome potential and after 5 years they win everything in sight. Not very good cheating by the AI if you ask me

Aren't release fees public knowledge on the game anyway?

*checks Messi's contract details*

"Minimum fee release clause of £136,000,000"

The ball is out of play, directly after a goal. :confused:

It does but humans often have the ball go out of play after theyve made a sub and the sub doesnt come on when he should.

Aren't release fees public knowledge on the game anyway?

*checks Messi's contract details*

"Minimum fee release clause of £136,000,000"

I meant the fee the club would accept for a player even thought technically he hast got a release fee. Something youd only see using a scout tool.

Also I think everyone isnt getting that it just isnt 1 game where I would say fair enough, my team was just unlucky there.

1-1 swansea score 84min to draw

2-2 qpr score 83min to draw

1-2 southampton score 92min to win

1-1 bristol city score 93min to draw

2-2 blackpool score 91min to draw

Cost me 13 pts in the last 9 games. I dominated everyone of those games (possesion, ccc & shots)

Actually mate, its beginning to look like your team are losing concentration. This could be tactical after all and not AI cheating. When trying to close out a game play a bit more defensive, sit deeper, waste time etc etc.

The fact that any of these cheats threads completely ignore the many... many users who take lower league teams to CL glory is what always gets me.

Face it... if you cant beat the AI then its your own fault.

Awesome. Haven't seen a cheating AI thread in ages.

At least a week.

The AI does not and cannot cheat. The ME doesn't know which is the human and which is the AI manager. Full stop. End of story. Please let's not allow this to bang on for 10 pages again.

I dont believe it does, they make changes directly after goals and its the goals that cause the change. We have to wait until the ball goes out of play and sometimes it has to go out of play several times to take effect.

The ai always knows a players release fee too when theres a ai to ai transfer.

The ai and human are not treated the same just as they arent in virtually any game.

I often use that technique to stop a late opposition corner being a threat if I'm one goal up. Just pause the game before the ball goes dead, change your players, by making a sub or even just swapping two, and you've a good chance that the game will do the action instantly and recalculate the corner into a nothing ball. It doesn't always work but enough for me to use it.

Aren't release fees public knowledge on the game anyway?

*checks Messi's contract details*

"Minimum fee release clause of £136,000,000"

Quick bit of trivia.....

....According to reports, Messi today signed a new contract which involved his release clause being increased to £225,000,000. Which is NOT pocket money.

It does cheat when it comes to transfers. For example if I have a player who I want to buy that is not wanted by any other team:

a) I put in a bid. Suddenly out of nowhere other teams come in and bid for the player. Seemingly just to make it harder for the human player to sign players.

b) I wait for a week and of course there are no AI bids during that week since they aren't really looking to sign that player. Then I bid. AI teams jump in and bid.

c) I don't bid for that player. No AI teams bid for that player.

It is obvious the AI reactions in these cases are 100% determined what I do and their reaction is only there to make it harder for me. If the AI didn't cheat here it would scout, put on wanted list and then bid no matter what the human manager does.

It does cheat when it comes to transfers. For example if I have a player who I want to buy that is not wanted by any other team:

a) I put in a bid. Suddenly out of nowhere other teams come in and bid for the player. Seemingly just to make it harder for the human player to sign players.

b) I wait for a week and of course there are no AI bids during that week since they aren't really looking to sign that player. Then I bid. AI teams jump in and bid.

c) I don't bid for that player. No AI teams bid for that player.

It is obvious the AI reactions in these cases are 100% determined what I do and their reaction is only there to make it harder for me. If the AI didn't cheat here it would scout, put on wanted list and then bid no matter what the human manager does.

Im skeptical whether should be classed as cheating but either way I 100% agree with you.

I was even tempted to make a thread on this earlier after being robbed of a player.

It does cheat when it comes to transfers. For example if I have a player who I want to buy that is not wanted by any other team:

a) I put in a bid. Suddenly out of nowhere other teams come in and bid for the player. Seemingly just to make it harder for the human player to sign players.

b) I wait for a week and of course there are no AI bids during that week since they aren't really looking to sign that player. Then I bid. AI teams jump in and bid.

c) I don't bid for that player. No AI teams bid for that player.

It is obvious the AI reactions in these cases are 100% determined what I do and their reaction is only there to make it harder for me. If the AI didn't cheat here it would scout, put on wanted list and then bid no matter what the human manager does.

Before you bid on a player check their transfer screen and chack what clubs are interested in them. What often happens is that a bunch of ai teams are already interested in signing a player but they hold off on bidding until the human manager or one of the other ai teams maes a bid. Then they all begin to bid because they don't want to miss out, they're not just looking at the players you're interested in.

The game decides what every action you have does. It cant cheat, its God. It can however be tremendously frustrating.

It depends on your definition of cheating. Here are a few ways that I think the AI could be said to be cheating or at least to have an unfair advantage that the human manager can't duplicate. The AI doesn't always do these things or do them perfectly, but the ability is always there.

It can make instant tactical changes in a match

It seems able to see and react to human tactical changes (e.g. immediately adjusting to very specific changes you just made)

Being able to 'see' hidden attributes

Knowing the right team talk and media interactions to use

Knowing precisely when to change tactics and make other adjustments to change a poor run of form

I'm sure there are more, but these come to mind readily.

I cant say cheat...............but I was playing Madrid in group stages 1-1 and raul was miles offside but the goal stood I re-run the reply a few times just to see if one of the defenders played him on and it isnt even close!!!!!

first time I have seen a blatant 1 given

also how many times does this happen.............you 20+ shots on target 0 goals

AI 1 shot...................you got it 1 goal!!!!!!!

AI can't make instant changes, isn't able to immediately react to human changes, can't see hidden attributes, doesnt know the right team talks to use, doesn't know precisely when to change tactics to end a poor run of form.

As for 1 shot 1 goal, iirc it was the 2006/07 season where Arsenal had a similar result* a total of 18 times (approximately 1 third of their games).

*some were draws, some were 3-2 losses etc, but in each case Arsenal had over (iirc) three times the amount of shots on goal as the other team.

Champions league final 1999. Was the AI cheating then?

No, that was when the ME was broken. They had got the patch for last years CL final just about right though IMO LOL

AI can't make instant changes, isn't able to immediately react to human changes, can't see hidden attributes, doesnt know the right team talks to use, doesn't know precisely when to change tactics to end a poor run of form.

As for 1 shot 1 goal, iirc it was the 2006/07 season where Arsenal had a similar result* a total of 18 times (approximately 1 third of their games).

*some were draws, some were 3-2 losses etc, but in each case Arsenal had over (iirc) three times the amount of shots on goal as the other team.

Im not arguing but even since the CM0102 game days I have noticed regulary an abonormally high proportion of the following:

*First shot against you is a goal

*Player x scores his "first goal" against you.

I have looked at averages and the average on these occurences is abnormal, there is no real life precedent - and it happens all the time in FM play.

Also it does seem the AI can make instant changes in-match but I guess that could just be the way the data refreshes to view.

All I've seen so far is "The AI have scored, I don't believe this". It seems that you score first and then to AI catches up - why? Because they start to attack (as would any team) to try and claw back the game. They're not going to just sit there and let you win.

You need to ask yourself why is the AI scoring. You say you've downloaded a brilliant tactic - no tactic is perfect, every single one has a weakness depending on the AI's system.

In my mind, the moment you concede a goal is the moment you stop concentrating. Real life managers are constantly watching the game, looking for weaknesses in their team and plugging the holes. You need to do that too, and not just run a game through expecting to win it.

AI can't make instant changes, isn't able to immediately react to human changes, can't see hidden attributes, doesnt know the right team talks to use, doesn't know precisely when to change tactics to end a poor run of form.

Nonsense. Here's just one example: routinely the AI manager changes its tactics at the first opportunity right after the human manager has just made a significant change toward attacking or defending. The commentary makes this clear by stating that the opposition has just returned to its normal style, taken a more attacking approach, etc.. I see it happen again and again, and usually within moments after the human manager has changed tactics. And almost always the AI is making the proper shift according to what the human manager has done, like going more defensive right after the human goes attacking.

The AI clearly is able to 'see' or otherwise know what sort of change the human manager has made and adjust to it at the very first opportunity, whereas the human manager cannot view tactical details for the AI and has to rely on what he can see in the 3D view and commentary. It takes much longer for the human manager to be able to see how the opposition has changed tactics, whereas the AI seems free to do this much faster.

Unless you're a programmer for SI, I'm not buying the claims that the AI doesn't have these advantages.

I cant say cheat...............but I was playing Madrid in group stages 1-1 and raul was miles offside but the goal stood I re-run the reply a few times just to see if one of the defenders played him on and it isnt even close!!!!!

first time I have seen a blatant 1 given

also how many times does this happen.............you 20+ shots on target 0 goals

AI 1 shot...................you got it 1 goal!!!!!!!

hmmm yeah i recently lost a game with my liverpool team 1-0 to Stoke, thing is their goal was about 15m offside and i also scored a goal that was ruled out for ouffside but on inspecting replays i found out my player was onside the whoe time. So instead of winning 1-0 i lost 1-0.

Nonsense. Here's just one example: routinely the AI manager changes its tactics at the first opportunity right after the human manager has just made a significant change toward attacking or defending. The commentary makes this clear by stating that the opposition has just returned to its normal style, taken a more attacking approach, etc.. I see it happen again and again, and usually within moments after the human manager has changed tactics. And almost always the AI is making the proper shift according to what the human manager has done, like going more defensive right after the human goes attacking.

The AI clearly is able to 'see' or otherwise know what sort of change the human manager has made and adjust to it at the very first opportunity, whereas the human manager cannot view tactical details for the AI and has to rely on what he can see in the 3D view and commentary. It takes much longer for the human manager to be able to see how the opposition has changed tactics, whereas the AI seems free to do this much faster.

Unless you're a programmer for SI, I'm not buying the claims that the AI doesn't have these advantages.

When you confirm tactical changes, the match engine works out what's going to happen until half/full time. As you've made changes, the AI manager will be able to see that you have (just as you can see when they have) and make changes accordingly - the time it takes to notice the change and decide what changes to make is factored in to those calculations.

It'll obviously take you longer to notice if you're watching in anything other than the full match - that's common sense.

Im not arguing but even since the CM0102 game days I have noticed regulary an abonormally high proportion of the following:

*First shot against you is a goal

*Player x scores his "first goal" against you.

I have looked at averages and the average on these occurences is abnormal, there is no real life precedent - and it happens all the time in FM play.

Also it does seem the AI can make instant changes in-match but I guess that could just be the way the data refreshes to view.

First shot against you on goal I believe is a morale problem and I'm definitly of the belief it happens too often, but that doesn't make it a cheat.

The "play x scores his first goal" thing is a statistical probability - I can't be bothered to actually work out the odds of it happening, but when you figure there are 19 teams playing against you, 25-50 players per team used in a season, and how few goals most players score, the statistics show it should be happening quite often, to every team.

hmmm yeah i recently lost a game with my liverpool team 1-0 to Stoke, thing is their goal was about 15m offside and i also scored a goal that was ruled out for ouffside but on inspecting replays i found out my player was onside the whoe time. So instead of winning 1-0 i lost 1-0.

Mistakes and errors of judgment from Officials is part of the game.

Also I think everyone isnt getting that it just isnt 1 game where I would say fair enough, my team was just unlucky there.

1-1 swansea score 84min to draw

2-2 qpr score 83min to draw

1-2 southampton score 92min to win

1-1 bristol city score 93min to draw

2-2 blackpool score 91min to draw

Cost me 13 pts in the last 9 games. I dominated everyone of those games (possesion, ccc & shots)

It sounds like you're not adjusting your tactics to close out matches. Your opponents will go at you in the last 15 minutes when they're down by 1, usually in a 4-2-4 formation, throwing everything but the kitchen sink at you and overloading the box. You've got to have a different mentality and a formation to solidfy the back and soak up the pressure. I created a 4-1-4-1 formation I've used to very good effect in several games now. I play a 4-4-2 normally, having used the TTF to develop them, then I pull a striker and put in a DM in front of my defensive 4, with a defensive mentality, keeping behind the ball, slowing the tempo, etc., and I rarely get broken down anymore. I have lost a few points, but now I close them out.

This is a Football management game. You can't just coast on early goals and expect the game to take care of itself. You've got to *manage*.

Of course the game cheats. Let me be absolutely clear about that: Make no mistake: The game cheats.

It is impossible, because of the way the games are calculated, to get an element of little teams causing upsets (like in real life). Thus, the game will insert an upset. And this is only one example.

It is also impossible, if the match engine is left unchecked, to stop a team that has great players and great tactics to constantly win everything for ever. So, the game has to introduce a bad day, trouble in the team, injuries etc.

Some might argue that this is not cheating but adding realism. No problem there.

To achieve realism though, the match engine is being tampered with, in other words the game cheats.

Ahah, rubbish.

Of course the game cheats. Let me be absolutely clear about that: Make no mistake: The game cheats.

It is impossible, because of the way the games are calculated, to get an element of little teams causing upsets (like in real life). Thus, the game will insert an upset. And this is only one example.

It is also impossible, if the match engine is left unchecked, to stop a team that has great players and great tactics to constantly win everything for ever. So, the game has to introduce a bad day, trouble in the team, injuries etc.

Some might argue that this is not cheating but adding realism. No problem there.

To achieve realism though, the match engine is being tampered with, in other words the game cheats.

It calculates results based on a series of variables, that's a simple enough concept to understand. So no, it doesn't cheat, when you lose it's because either

a) You were unlucky

b) Your team just isn't good enough

c) You didn't use the right tactics

Pretty similar to how real sport works, huh? People cry out for realism and then cry when they lose to a freak goal.

No where in the calculations is there a variable called 'timeToCheat' which randomly stacks a load of odds against you so that it's impossible to win. If you concede late goals and lose leads then it's because the AI is attacking and you don't do anything to counter it.