OriginalGrowler

Why is the english league so strong in Europe?

95 posts in this topic

Its getting silly now. they were dominant in FM08, but come on, tone it down a little. Every season its arsenal, chelsea, man u or liverpool. I had to go into the editor and reduce the co-efficients just to make it a little bit of a challenge.

And its just the champions league its the UEFA cup too.

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Well over the last 4 years how many times have English sides been in the champs league final the game is currently mirroring the strength of the premier league.

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Exactly... let's face it, English football is dominant at the moment, especially the big 4. Also, the Italians never really recovered from the corruption scandals, Milan are in a freefalling decline, and the Spaniards are weakened in their transition phases as well. It's not just about money either because Barca and Madrid are no lackeys in spending power.

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Think about how many continental players are on English clubs, and it makes sense.

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Just look at how many English clubs have made it to the semi-Finals over the last few years. Just looking at the winner might b a little misleading, but looking at the final 4 will give you a better idea.

If you still think it's not very realistic then maybe you need to load more structures.

In previous FM issues, a playable league has always gained an advantage over a non-playable league, (well as soon as they are better than grey players anyway) lol. So maybe maybe if you just have the ENglish structure active, then restarting with the German, Spanish, Italian, Portugese, Dutch & French structures playable might even it out a little.

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yea its actualy very realistic!

It is indead, like others mentioned, check the last 4 of each european cup over the last years and you will see al lot English clubs.

The only thing on FM08 what was not correct was the strenght of the National team of England, which was no where near the actual strength irl (that is my vision).

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Just wait untill Blatter can do his 6+5 rule and you will see english teams fall very quickly.

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Just wait untill Blatter can do his 6+5 rule and you will see english teams fall very quickly.

Will never happen

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The major problem I see at the moment is the success of English clubs in the UEFA cup, since that just isn't happening. The Champions League though is fine, since all four of the big four in England have been regularly featured in at least the semi finals over the past few years.

Just wait untill Blatter can do his 6+5 rule and you will see english teams fall very quickly.

I'd be very surprised if that idiocy ever got implemented, not only would it break EU employment laws, it would be very likely to cause some sort of major revolt from UEFA or at least the major clubs/leagues throughout Europe.

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Italian League has a rule saying you can't have 2 or 3 non EU players in your squad.

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I suppose this is slightly different because we're all part of the EU now and have to abide by "human rights".

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Well, for 1st time German teams got more t-shirt money this year from the English ones, Bayern Munchen now is number 1 in t-shirt sponsor earnings (last year it was Man utd ) ; also Bundesliga is number 1 in attendances .

In Europe the rising power is Russia and this is undisputed , Spanish economy can not be top and also many teams are owned by construction companies who went to the dogs with the economic crisis , the French still prefer cycling over football , the English are in financial decline and so are the Germans ( although Germany is more populated with a bigger economy ).

As for 2008-2009 season it looks like Premiership is tops but it will start to decline soon ( already big clubs have to face the burden of debts ) , i am not an economist but in a maximum of 5 years Russian league will dominate everything in Europe.

As about the 6+5 rule it just suck and it will never be applied , football clubs are companies and none can dictate them who they can employ and who they can not.

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As mentioned, look at the dominence of English clubs in the Champions league.

Can you remember which 2 teams were in the final?

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I've never really found the English teams to be dominant in Europe on my games, Juve and Inter have been the teams to beat for the last 15 seasons. However, I do find the English almost impossible to beat, I seem to struggle agaisnt them and have been on the other end of a couple of absolute hammerings, but the AI doesn't seem to have the same problem.

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I'd be very surprised if that idiocy ever got implemented, not only would it break EU employment laws, it would be very likely to cause some sort of major revolt from UEFA or at least the major clubs/leagues throughout Europe.

Is a revolt always bad? so you think England just had a bit of bad luck not qualifie for the EC? It would protect young home players and secure the future of national teams. And from what i know, there are still more people watching the WC than the national leagues. offcours if you are someone who doesn't care a bit about how your country does,...

If you were a young football player with a reasonable amount of talent, you go to a club, and they say: don't need you, we just got a load of fresh african and east-european players who cost 10x as less, i wonder if you would still think like that

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Don't a few nations already only allow only 3 non EU players anyway?

Spain is one of them, Italy also (iirc). For the UK they (the non EU) needs a workpermit.

In Holland theire is no limit what so ever for fielding NON EU players.

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The only thing on FM08 what was not correct was the strenght of the National team of England, which was no where near the actual strength irl (that is my vision).

Actually the England team is very strong, it's just that they underperform and have very poor chemistry playing with each other. I'm not sure if national teams in FM have this chemistry (the 'blending in' feature in FM09), if they do, England's should be very low to reflect reality. But there's no denying that players like Gerrard and Ferdinand are world class.

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The best Blatter can hope for is a limit on non-EU players. Anything else would quite simply be against EU law. I suppose he could try and take the EU on, but I don't think he would succeed.

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Exactly... let's face it, English football is dominant at the moment, especially the big 4. Also, the Italians never really recovered from the corruption scandals, Milan are in a freefalling decline, and the Spaniards are weakened in their transition phases as well. It's not just about money either because Barca and Madrid are no lackeys in spending power.

yep this is true

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The best Blatter can hope for is a limit on non-EU players. Anything else would quite simply be against EU law. I suppose he could try and take the EU on, but I don't think he would succeed.

Indeed. i hope something like this will happen. it happens already in Spain, and hey the won the EC. so it is not a bad thing. So they should do it in england also. but then also the regulations for the clubs in belgium should chage also, because you can get a belgium nationality afther 3 years. the reason why so many English clubs have a belgian sattelite club. if this doesn't change, england will not be helped

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The EU rule in italy only applies to annual transfers, not team lists/squads.

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I strongly dislike protectionism. I hope such a rule never comes in. Just my personal opinion.

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I don't get why people go on about foreigners being the problem in England, and how the national team is affected because the top teams don't have many English players. Two years ago Italy won the world cup, their league winner had only one Italian (Toldo) in the matchday squad against Liveprool in the CL.

AFAIC foreigners is an excuse England fans have grabbed hold of in a vein attempt to excsue their failings.

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I strongly dislike protectionism. I hope such a rule never comes in. Just my personal opinion.

I kinda agree with your philosophy, but I'm not so sure when it comes to football.

France improved on the international stage by some kind of enforcement (exactly what it was I don't remember :o), as did Italy as various times, and you could maybe even throw in Scotland with their under-21 rule.

I hear what you're saying, just some food for thought.

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I've always maintained that the biggest enemy of English football is not foreigners, but the English game itself. More specifically, it's the way we get our kids into it. Most successful nations focus on getting their kids working with the ball. They want them to learn to feel comfortable with it. But in England, right from the start, we're thrown into eleven-a-side matches on full size pitches and expected to "get stuck in". Very few players are going to develop technical ability with a start like that.

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I kinda agree with your philosophy, but I'm not so sure when it comes to football.

France improved on the international stage by some kind of enforcement (exactly what it was I don't remember :o), as did Italy as various times, and you could maybe even throw in Scotland with their under-21 rule.

I hear what you're saying, just some food for thought.

France's improvement came about because they set up the Clairefontaine academy. The team of 1998-2000 that did so well was full of Clairefontaine graduates.

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I agree, as its an illegal rule the champions league homegrown rule is better and legal

This causes English clubs to plunder youth sides across Europe though.

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Its getting silly now. they were dominant in FM08, but come on, tone it down a little. Every season its arsenal, chelsea, man u or liverpool. I had to go into the editor and reduce the co-efficients just to make it a little bit of a challenge.

And its just the champions league its the UEFA cup too.

do you not watch european football?

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There's the big four, and after that there's a big gap -- like someone said, it's not *just* money, it's also the management. And beyond Chelski, Liverpool, Arsenal and United there really isn't anything elite class. Mind you, four clubs, that's already plentyful for a single league. But it's also really just these four that have given the Prem League its rep. That is, so far.

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Actually the England team is very strong, it's just that they underperform and have very poor chemistry playing with each other. I'm not sure if national teams in FM have this chemistry (the 'blending in' feature in FM09), if they do, England's should be very low to reflect reality. But there's no denying that players like Gerrard and Ferdinand are world class.

I agree on the worldclass players like Gerrard etc, but I mentioned TEAM. They just are not a great team irl, but are on FM.

Little bit like Holland (Euro 2008 they were doing fine, but that was an exception which noboby ever could dream off).

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Is a revolt always bad? so you think England just had a bit of bad luck not qualifie for the EC? It would protect young home players and secure the future of national teams. And from what i know, there are still more people watching the WC than the national leagues. offcours if you are someone who doesn't care a bit about how your country does,...

Nice job making a whole load of assumptions on my personal opinions based on what I think the major Football entities reactions would be like. Besides England failed to qualify for the EC not because of lack of talent (England can still claim to have one of the best midfield's of any country as well as a world class defensive line), but because of a variety of other factors like a lack of motivation, bad tactics and a general bad attitude toward the national team.

Indeed. i hope something like this will happen. it happens already in Spain, and hey the won the EC. so it is not a bad thing. So they should do it in england also. but then also the regulations for the clubs in belgium should chage also, because you can get a belgium nationality afther 3 years. the reason why so many English clubs have a belgian sattelite club. if this doesn't change, england will not be helped

Spain has been producing world topping youth teams for years and had until this year completely failed at the senior level, mostly because of, you guessed it, attitude and squad harmony not because of any lack of necessary talent. Their having a limit on non EU players has had absolutely no impact on their national teams success. Having a winning culture coupled with a strong self belief goes a very long way to producing good national team results (Look at Germany in particular for an example of that).

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I agree tht Englands club teams are currently the best performing in europe also under Capello we look like the world class team we should,

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France's improvement came about because they set up the Clairefontaine academy. The team of 1998-2000 that did so well was full of Clairefontaine graduates.

I didn't know of that institution; just read a little about it - thanks.

Like I said I don't disagree - I just think there must be something to International teams improving like they have when their leagues have introduced rules to encourage playing youth/domestic players.

How much that's responsible though I don't know.

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I don't get why people go on about foreigners being the problem in England, and how the national team is affected because the top teams don't have many English players. Two years ago Italy won the world cup, their league winner had only one Italian (Toldo) in the matchday squad against Liveprool in the CL.

AFAIC foreigners is an excuse England fans have grabbed hold of in a vein attempt to excsue their failings.

So?

The majority of that Italian team was playign in Italy at the time. There was NOBODY playing outside the penninsula.

And to top that, Juve won the league that season but the title was given to Inter after the Calciopoli scandal.

1 GK Gianluigi Buffon Juventus

2 DF Cristian Zaccardo Palermo

3 DF Fabio Grosso Palermo - Transferred To Inter

4 MF Daniele De Rossi Roma

5 DF Fabio Cannavaro Juventus - Transferred to Real Madrid

6 DF Andrea Barzagli Palermo

7 FW Alessandro Del Piero Juventus

8 MF Gennaro Gattuso Milan

9 FW Luca Toni Fiorentina

10 FW Francesco Totti Roma

11 FW Alberto Gilardino Milan

12 GK Angelo Peruzzi Lazio

13 DF Alessandro Nesta Milan

14 GK Marco Amelia Livorno

15 FW Vincenzo Iaquinta Udinese

16 MF Mauro Camoranesi Juventus

17 MF Simone Barone Palermo

18 FW Filippo Inzaghi Milan

19 DF Gianluca Zambrotta Juventus - Transferred To Barcelona

20 MF Simone Perrotta Roma

21 MF Andrea Pirlo Milan

22 DF Massimo Oddo Lazio

23 DF Marco Materazzi Internazionale

So you have 5 members on the team that "won" the Serie A and not one player who before the tournament was not playing in Italy

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Well, for 1st time German teams got more t-shirt money this year from the English ones, Bayern Munchen now is number 1 in t-shirt sponsor earnings (last year it was Man utd ) ; also Bundesliga is number 1 in attendances .

In Europe the rising power is Russia and this is undisputed , Spanish economy can not be top and also many teams are owned by construction companies who went to the dogs with the economic crisis , the French still prefer cycling over football , the English are in financial decline and so are the Germans ( although Germany is more populated with a bigger economy ).

As for 2008-2009 season it looks like Premiership is tops but it will start to decline soon ( already big clubs have to face the burden of debts ) , i am not an economist but in a maximum of 5 years Russian league will dominate everything in Europe.

As about the 6+5 rule it just suck and it will never be applied, football clubs are companies and none can dictate them who they can employ and who they can not.

1) Bundesliga Shirt Sponsorship larger than Premiership - True, but suffers from reporting bias

Okay, this is suggested by the most recent figures. Yet you craftily missed out this widely reported comment "Due to the weak British pound, Bayern Munich beat Manchester United to the title of the most valuable jersey deal,” Hartmut Zastrow, the executive director of SPORT+MARKT" He also went on to mention the overall value of the Premierships shirt sponsorship had been heavily influenced (negatively) by the likes of West Hams sponsor going bankrupt and WBA still looking for a partner and Aston Villa being all nice and allowing a charity to be their logo for 1 GBP.

SPORT+MARKT also expects England to regain its pre-eminence. “If the currency or the teams that are lacking a paying sponsor recover, the Premier League will top the ranking again next season,” Gareth Moore, the international sales director

2) Bayern Munich No.1 sponsor earnings - Again true, but suffers from the same reporting bias

See above.

3) Bundesliga No.1 in attendences - Not entirely accurate...

Last year (which is the most accurate representation if we're talking season attendence) Ligue 1 and Serie A had higher average attendences than the Bundesliga (21,574 & 22,947 versus 18453 courtesy of www.weltfussball.de). However, that is just one source. Another I found suggested Bundesliga last season saw an average of 38,612 versus the Premierships 36,076 which matches your statement. However, we'd do well to remember that each season will see a shift (however small) in figures for teams are promoted and demoted throughout the leagues. Some have huge stadiums others have smaller stadiums. The same site suggested a total attendence within the Bundesliga of 11,815,215 versus 13,676,390 for the Premiership.

Therefore I'd suggest the Bundesliga is currently comparable to Serie A and ahead of Ligue 1, the latter has always been quite small. Serie A could also be said to have had a tough time of late. Bundesliga is still riding a spike because of the recent football tournament.

4) Russia rising power undisputed - An obvious yes

If you mean it's becoming more prominent then yes, I would agree. It's not hard, with new found wealth, to raise the profile of a league long in the wilderness.

5) Spanish economy cannot be top, many owned by construction companies who went under - Yes-ish

They could be the top. I think it'd be a mistake to say everything will remain as it is today. Spain hasnt the best sponsorship packages, they always seem to lag behind. The Dutch league is meant to be close to overtaking! Shows you how bad it is. Yet they are a powerful footballing league and clubs are always attractive to investers. If one group of owners goes down I'd imagine clubs would be sold.

6) French prefer cycling over football - Not viewing figures wise

Football is still widely classed as the most watched sport in France. Your statement was a little strange so it's hard to tackle. 'Prefer' is up to the individual.

7) English in financial decline, so is Germany (although Germ has bigger economy and larger population) - Because of the Credit Crunch?

England houses the financial centre of Europe (within London) so I'd imagine wide reporting of financial strain within the British economy. Crunches will happen again in the future. This one will finish and we'll go back to normality.

Germany has, for many a year, had a strong economy and I believe they lead the current GDP list (and are expected to for a few more years at least) closely followed by France, then the UK and Italy. A strong drop then we see Spain and Russia before another huge drop onwards to other nations.

I think it is said that Denmark is meant to offer the best quality of life (overall)? They are 16th on the GDP list which might suggest economic size is no hint of quality of life for the average citizen. Over 11 countries faired higher than Germany (including the UK and the mighty Malta).

8) 08/09 season Prem is top but it will start to decline soon because of big debts - Says who?

That is your personal opinion? Most large businesses operate (as do the most powerful nations on this earth) with serviceable debt. I'd prefer it if they do not ;)

9) Within max 5 years Russian league will dominate everything - Unlikely

I'd say that is unlikely. As mentioned earlier, they've had a large leap because of an influx of money. When you look at the wider picture you have to ask yourself how likely it is that they will be able to attract the majority of talent. I can understand under-priviledged South Americans going there and a few Europeans for the money on offer but have you ever spent time in Russia? In some parts it's booming (Moscow, SPeters etc) but there is still an awfully long way to go before players from the UK/Italy/Spain/Germany would consider living there as easily as they would the host nations of established leagues, leagues with years of great history. The latter will not change any time soon.

10) 6+5 rule will never be applied - Tend to agree

I would quite like to see it (even though I think it'd affect the Premiership more than some other leagues) because I'm one of the 'win fairly' types and I think it'd benefit the national teams. However, there is an argument for national pride being focussed on national and not club teams which makes sense.

Themistofelis - I do not mean to attack you in any way. My return fire is meant in a light-hearted and non-competitive way and I hope you'll take it as such :D

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Juve won the league that season but the title was given to Inter after the Calciopoli scandal.

The F.I.G.C./Lega Calcio would differ - they would say Inter won the title and it was taken from dishonest Juve.

There is a commonly recited phrase regarding this issue - juventus won the title on the pitch. They didn't - they tried to win it in clandestine meetings and referees rooms.

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The same site suggested a total attendence within the Bundesliga of 11,815,215 versus 13,676,390 for the Premiership.

The Bundesliga only has 18 teams.

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There is no way the English leagues would stay strong forever. These things come and go. Although financially English clubs have high financial flexibility they arent immune to a sporting decline but FM always has them above other leagues, even when they have squads full of rubbish regens with weak stats. I agree, this needs sorting, other leagues should be allowed the chance to flourish especially if you make them powerful enough. Just look at the reputation rise of the Turkish league in recent years or of the Russian league. Money helped but so did sporting results. This however is not reflected in FM.

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I get really bored seeing loads of English teams in the last 4 of the Champions League, but at the moment the game mirrors real life unfortunately in that. As has been mentioned above though, the game does not currently model ths situation in the UEFA cup quite so well because English clubs have consistently underperformed in that competition for years and years. Sure two lost on penalties last year, but that is irrelevant - ultimately getting knocked out is getting knocked out. Modelling that in a game though is very hard - implicitely it means the game has to make it so that the "big 4" in England are almost impossible to break into...which would make the game so dull that loads of people (myself included) would stop buying it.

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True, but suffers from reporting bias

Okay, this is suggested by the most recent figures. Yet you craftily missed out this widely reported comment "Due to the weak British pound, Bayern Munich beat Manchester United to the title of the most valuable jersey deal,” Hartmut Zastrow, the executive director of SPORT+MARKT" He also went on to mention the overall value of the Premierships shirt sponsorship had been heavily influenced (negatively) by the likes of West Hams sponsor going bankrupt and WBA still looking for a partner and Aston Villa being all nice and allowing a charity to be their logo for 1 GBP.

All you posted are true , yet in pure numbers i didn't post something wrong .

SPORT+MARKT also expects England to regain its pre-eminence. “If the currency or the teams that are lacking a paying sponsor recover, the Premier League will top the ranking again next season,” Gareth Moore, the international sales director

Also true , i took my info from a local newspaper (that's why i didn't provide any links), in pure numbers overall earnings for Buldesliga clubs are down compared to 2007 figures , Premiership clubs seem to be affected more .

Bundesliga No.1 in attendences[/b] - Not entirely accurate...

Last year (which is the most accurate representation if we're talking season attendence) Ligue 1 and Serie A had higher average attendences than the Bundesliga (21,574 & 22,947 versus 18453 courtesy of www.weltfussball.de). However, that is just one source. Another I found suggested Bundesliga last season saw an average of 38,612 versus the Premierships 36,076 which matches your statement. However, we'd do well to remember that each season will see a shift (however small) in figures for teams are promoted and demoted throughout the leagues. Some have huge stadiums others have smaller stadiums. The same site suggested a total attendence within the Bundesliga of 11,815,215 versus 13,676,390 for the Premiership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

and

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

Just 2 examples clearly showing Bundesliga having slightly better average attendances from Premiership .

Therefore I'd suggest the Bundesliga is currently comparable to Serie A and ahead of Ligue 1, the latter has always been quite small. Serie A could also be said to have had a tough time of late. Bundesliga is still riding a spike because of the recent football tournament.

In Germany football is a show for the masses , cheap tickets , terraces etc , that's why they rejected big TV money last year. Italy is ruined by violence , political tensions and very very boring style of play , TV here (i am in Greece) stop covering Italian Serie A because none was watching .

5) Spanish economy cannot be top, many owned by construction companies who went under - Yes-ish

They could be the top. I think it'd be a mistake to say everything will remain as it is today. Spain hasnt the best sponsorship packages, they always seem to lag behind. The Dutch league is meant to be close to overtaking! Shows you how bad it is. Yet they are a powerful footballing league and clubs are always attractive to investers. If one group of owners goes down I'd imagine clubs would be sold.

Spain has a Mediterranean economy and like 15.000.000 less people from the rest of the big countries , the Dutch market is nowhere near the big leagues because the country is small , yet they do have industry to support the clubs via sponsoring and big scores can stick you in the sofa to watch a game so there is some potential.

6) French prefer cycling over football - Not viewing figures wise

Football is still widely classed as the most watched sport in France. Your statement was a little strange so it's hard to tackle. 'Prefer' is up to the individual.

The French are a strange case , although i don't think that football has more viewers than tour de France they do like it but speaking with several Frenchmen i 've got the idea that they think of the game as something the immigrants play , something for the low classes , of course i can be wrong.

7) English in financial decline, so is Germany (although Germ has bigger economy and larger population) - Because of the Credit Crunch?

England houses the financial centre of Europe (within London) so I'd imagine wide reporting of financial strain within the British economy. Crunches will happen again in the future. This one will finish and we'll go back to normality.

I thought that Glasgow is the economic centre of Europe but never mind , I wrote that having in mind that Chelsea fired half of their scouters and from now on players will have to pay for candies in team's shop , three big clubs have a debt around 1 billion pounds, no ?

Also the English clubs are spending big loads of money for players ( when a Greek club enquired about Modric his price was like 5m , an English club had to pay 20m for him only months later ) and extravagant wages , i think that crisis or no things are going out of hand ; again this is how i view things and i never claim to be the Pope

That is your personal opinion? Most large businesses operate (as do the most powerful nations on this earth) with serviceable debt. I'd prefer it if they do not ;)

most powerful nations on this rock seem to go down quickly ,of course it is just my personal opinion .

9) Within max 5 years Russian league will dominate everything - Unlikely

I'd say that is unlikely. As mentioned earlier, they've had a large leap because of an influx of money. When you look at the wider picture you have to ask yourself how likely it is that they will be able to attract the majority of talent. I can understand under-priviledged South Americans going there and a few Europeans for the money on offer but have you ever spent time in Russia? In some parts it's booming (Moscow, SPeters etc) but there is still an awfully long way to go before players from the UK/Italy/Spain/Germany would consider living there as easily as they would the host nations of established leagues, leagues with years of great history. The latter will not change any time soon.

I am also watching other sports ( like Basketball, Volleyball etc ) and Russians have already gather the best of the best there - including some former Panathinaikos & Olympiacos players both two of the richest basketball clubs on the continent , football will just follow . Money talk in football and with all that money around quality of life will improve in Russian steppes as well .

Themistofelis - I do not mean to attack you in any way. My return fire is meant in a light-hearted and non-competitive way and I hope you'll take it as such :D

Attack? no , i always enjoy good debates . Just keep in mind that i am Greek fan of Olympiakos SFP and i couldn't care less about who is top and who is bottom in European ranking , also i have no likes or dislikes among other nations ( specially among fellow EU members ) -okay i do totally hate watching Serie A .

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However, that is just one source. Another I found suggested Bundesliga last season saw an average of 38,612 versus the Premierships 36,076 which matches your statement. However, we'd do well to remember that each season will see a shift (however small) in figures for teams are promoted and demoted throughout the leagues. Some have huge stadiums others have smaller stadiums. The same site suggested a total attendence within the Bundesliga of 11,815,215 versus 13,676,390 for the Premiership.

If total attendance is less in the Bundesliga despite average attendance being higher then that can only be down to there being fewer games played (they have a shorter season by 2 games) so total attendance is an unfair statistic really. I'm sure the English Championship ranks pretty highly against many top European leagues on total attendance since they have 46 games per season!

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Good reply Themistofelis - a good, clean debate about the world around FM :D

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FM always has them above other leagues, even when they have squads full of rubbish regens with weak stats. .

This is not true , in previous games Spanish and Italian leagues were more reputable from the English one; of course the starting rosters set up has been atrocious for years .

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So?

The majority of that Italian team was playign in Italy at the time. There was NOBODY playing outside the penninsula.

And to top that, Juve won the league that season but the title was given to Inter after the Calciopoli scandal.

1 GK Gianluigi Buffon Juventus

2 DF Cristian Zaccardo Palermo

3 DF Fabio Grosso Palermo - Transferred To Inter

4 MF Daniele De Rossi Roma

5 DF Fabio Cannavaro Juventus - Transferred to Real Madrid

6 DF Andrea Barzagli Palermo

7 FW Alessandro Del Piero Juventus

8 MF Gennaro Gattuso Milan

9 FW Luca Toni Fiorentina

10 FW Francesco Totti Roma

11 FW Alberto Gilardino Milan

12 GK Angelo Peruzzi Lazio

13 DF Alessandro Nesta Milan

14 GK Marco Amelia Livorno

15 FW Vincenzo Iaquinta Udinese

16 MF Mauro Camoranesi Juventus

17 MF Simone Barone Palermo

18 FW Filippo Inzaghi Milan

19 DF Gianluca Zambrotta Juventus - Transferred To Barcelona

20 MF Simone Perrotta Roma

21 MF Andrea Pirlo Milan

22 DF Massimo Oddo Lazio

23 DF Marco Materazzi Internazionale

So you have 5 members on the team that "won" the Serie A and not one player who before the tournament was not playing in Italy

Very good reply Leaf fan. and in 2006 the italian league winner was a league winner who got his titel wrapped in a present. Inter is a club with no self-respect. thankgod it is the only club i italy who is almost completly exists from foreigners. Clubs like Milan, Juventus, Roma, Palermo and so on have still a good amount of italians. But you will have to search very hard to find a club with a lot of english players in england.

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Well, for 1st time German teams got more t-shirt money this year from the English ones, Bayern Munchen now is number 1 in t-shirt sponsor earnings (last year it was Man utd ) ; also Bundesliga is number 1 in attendances .

In Europe the rising power is Russia and this is undisputed , Spanish economy can not be top and also many teams are owned by construction companies who went to the dogs with the economic crisis , the French still prefer cycling over football , the English are in financial decline and so are the Germans ( although Germany is more populated with a bigger economy ).

As for 2008-2009 season it looks like Premiership is tops but it will start to decline soon ( already big clubs have to face the burden of debts ) , i am not an economist but in a maximum of 5 years Russian league will dominate everything in Europe.

As about the 6+5 rule it just suck and it will never be applied , football clubs are companies and none can dictate them who they can employ and who they can not.

1. I think 2 English clubs have gone at least a portion of this season with no shirt sponsor. I have a feeling that someone is sponsored by a charity for a nominal sum, (although this might be a Championship club). This skews the figures somewhat.

2. The weak £ in terms of exchange rate also impacts upon relative sponsorship in this manner.

3. I dispute that "in Europe the rising power is Russia".

4. I do not agree that more French people like watching cycling than football.

5. I certainly do not agree that more people participate in competetive cycling races than participate in competetive football games.

6. Forget Russia dominating everything in 5 years. A single Russian team will not have reached the Champions League Final in 5 years never mind about dominating everything.

7. As for the 6+5 rule being illegal, actualy it's not at all. A club can emply any staff/players within the existing National guidelines. What UEFA/FIFA whoever do have control over is the make-up of the squads that they allow to participate in their tournaments. They can say whatever they ant and employment law has absolutely no impat on this whatsoever. The club adhered to employment law in respect of who it employs. It must adhere to national FA rules with regards to the players it plays in it's league games. It must adhere to FIFA rules with regards to players that it plays in UEFA tournaments.

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Aston Villa are sponsored for 1 GBP, I'd hardly call them a Championship Club!

Themistofelis - True what you say but when it comes to European competitions even with rubbish regens who harbour attrocious stats, the English teams would still remain dominant.

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in 2006 the italian league winner was a league winner who got his titel wrapped in a present.

And the referees got their gifts from Juve in brown envelopes. Along with mobile phones from Moggi.

Inter is a club with no self-respect.

What colour's the sky on your planet?

thank god it is the only club i italy who is almost completly exists from foreigners.

Thank God they're staying true to their origins.

P.S. If you shake that chip off your shoulder you'll stop going round in circles and maybe move forward.

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