FM17: Liverpool FC - Heavy Metal Football

[jakem016]

55 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

That's the idea anyway. My friend who also plays the game and chats with me a lot on Steam tells me this kind of thing will not work in the Premier League, but I'm making tactical decisions that are clearly working, so what else can I do? Little changes seem to make a big difference.

He's probably right, but still

I don't know why that wouldn't work.  If you're only creating a few TIs then it won't alter your fluidity too much.  My only concern would be trying to counter with 3 am's and a striker.  Personally, I would -- at a minimum -- bring the am l/r into the midfield strata and play a 4-4-1-1 if you want to counter.  For example, in my save I have 3 tactics: 4-3-3 control/fluid, 4-1-4-1 counter/flexible and 3-4-3 (with wbs and wide ams) standard/very fluid.  I only mention this because I would be very hesitant to try and sit deep and soak up pressure in a 4-3-3 and even more so in a 4-2-3-1.  Having said that, I'm no tactical expert and it seems to be working for you.

[glenn28]

I gave in & bought the game just downloading it now will most likely play a 4-3-3 formation with Mane & Continho on the wings & Firmino as the lone Striker 

[ashlfcowen]

Evening gents. 

Been playing the game on and off since the beta came out. I've self employed so actually finding the time to play is quite difficult. 

I'm currently at the end of January, having made no new purchases. Transfers in so far: 

Jose Gaya (£25m) - I really didn't like the look of Moreno. 

Gianluci Donnarumma (£23m) - Again, wasn't overly keen on Migs or Karius. Transfers out so far: 

A whole host of U18's & 23's to lighten the load for my coaches, Moreno (on loan to Torino), Brannagan, Williams & Wilson for £3.6m combined.

Currently sat 3rd in the Premier League, having played 24 games, won 15, drawn 5 and lost 4. I've scored 47 and conceded 24 (which isn't ideal). I'm two points behind Tottenham (1st) and Arsenal (2nd). Knocked out of the EFL Cup and through to the fourth round of the FA Cup.

TAA, Pedro Chiri & Ojo are all hovering around the first team squad. Grabara, Owens, Kane & Ovie are also big prospects. Woodburn doesn't look that great IMO.

Tactic wise, I'm currently set up in a 4-2-3-1, trying to control the game with some fluidity. I'm asking the team to close down more, to be more expressive, to play with a higher tempo and to prevent the team from playing the ball back to the keeper.

 

GK (D) - The Don

WB (A) Gaya, CD (D) Lovren, CD (D) Klavan, FB (S)  Clyne

DLP (D) Can, CM (S) Hendo

IF (S) - Firmino, AM (S) Coutinho, W (A) Mane

CF (A) Origi 

 

 

 

 

 

[yonko]

2 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@yonko this is why I'm posting here; you guys will spot things I might miss. What you've just said makes perfect sense but I would never have thought of that. My team is playing well so I just assume I'm doing it right

Well, there is also the maxima "don't fix something that isn't broken" too, you know.... Try it and see if it works better. It's all about balancing the 3 duties (defend, support and attack) and creating movement between the lines, triangles, etc. 

[yonko]

2 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@yonko this is why I'm posting here; you guys will spot things I might miss. What you've just said makes perfect sense but I would never have thought of that. My team is playing well so I just assume I'm doing it right

Well, there is also the maxima "don't fix something that isn't broken" too, you know.... Try it and see if it works better. It's all about balancing the 3 duties (defend, support and attack) and creating movement between the lines, triangles, etc. 

[yonko]

2 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@yonko this is why I'm posting here; you guys will spot things I might miss. What you've just said makes perfect sense but I would never have thought of that. My team is playing well so I just assume I'm doing it right

Well, there is also the maxima "don't fix something that isn't broken" too, you know.... Try it and see if it works better. It's all about balancing the 3 duties (defend, support and attack) and creating movement between the lines, triangles, etc. 

[yonko]

2 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@yonko this is why I'm posting here; you guys will spot things I might miss. What you've just said makes perfect sense but I would never have thought of that. My team is playing well so I just assume I'm doing it right

Well, there is also the maxima "don't fix something that isn't broken" too, you know.... Try it and see if it works better. It's all about balancing the 3 duties (defend, support and attack) and creating movement between the lines, triangles, etc. 

[..Valhalla..]

2 hours ago, jakem016 said:

I don't know why that wouldn't work.  If you're only creating a few TIs then it won't alter your fluidity too much.  My only concern would be trying to counter with 3 am's and a striker.  Personally, I would -- at a minimum -- bring the am l/r into the midfield strata and play a 4-4-1-1 if you want to counter.  For example, in my save I have 3 tactics: 4-3-3 control/fluid, 4-1-4-1 counter/flexible and 3-4-3 (with wbs and wide ams) standard/very fluid.  I only mention this because I would be very hesitant to try and sit deep and soak up pressure in a 4-3-3 and even more so in a 4-2-3-1.  Having said that, I'm no tactical expert and it seems to be working for you.

Well, just to reiterate - I play (training the team in) balanced and flexible to begin with, and then I switch mentality given each match situation. You may be right though because counter seems to be weak any time I've used it in the League so far, and I usually switch back to balanced or control.

Started competitive games well:

Beat Leicester 2-1 away. We conceded the firs goal but it was a daft GK error so I stuck to my guns; we scored a couple of goals after I added "pass into space" and "slightly deeper defence" (they were still attacking us). I only changed to defensive mentality with 5 minutes remaining and seen out the match comfortably.

Drew with United 2-2 at home. Zlatan scored two screamers but we came back each time. The stats say 2-2 was a fair result, and United normally beat me so I'm not disappointed. 

Beat Burnley 1-0 at home. They were playing a very defensive 4-4-1-1 (2DM), so I simply added control mentality, and "be more expressive" thinking it might take a bit of genius to unlock their stubborn defence; and so it came to be. A fancy backheel through ball from Lallana to Origi who chipped the onrushing keeper.

We hit the woodwork 3 times against Burnley so it could've been more comfortable. Also my kids beat Wigan 3-0 in the League Cup 2nd round. It's going well.

 

@yonko I don't know what happened there with 4 identical replies

[yonko]

LOL, me neither. Sorry about that. I don't know how to fix it.

[..Valhalla..]

Beat Middlesbrough 3-0 at home - their keeper (Guzan) is pretty good in the air, but has poor kicking. So I set the team to play low crosses and prevent GK short distribution.  I also noticed their LB was slow (10) so I exploited the right flank with Mané. Control mentality for a weak team at Anfield.

The match was a doddle, don't recall a single chance they had, and 2 of our goals came from the right hand side where Mané was destroying George Friend (I also specifically told Mané pre-match that I believe in him, which saw him react very happily).  Is it really this simple? Have I been trying too hard all this time?

 

I don't want to annoy people here by posting my game result after result but I'm really enjoying this save (doesn't happen often) and I hope when things get bad you guys can spot something I don't and maybe give me some advice. I'm loving it so far.

EDIT:

Lost 2-1 to Spurs away (Prem). Went down 2-0 and tried a few things but could only pull 1 goal back. I'll admit I'm not quite sure why we lost, but Spurs deserved to win. I was worried my bubble had burst.

Won 1-0 away to Middlesbrough (EFL Cup 3rd round). Played the same tactics as in the Premier League, only with my kids. It was a comfortable win despite the close scoreline.

Won 2-0 away to West Brom (Prem).  They were playing a defensive 4-1-4-1, so I set to control and exploited their weak RB as well as low crosses with Sturridge playing. He and Mané scored from the subsequent crosses.

Thrashed Stoke 5-0 at home (Prem). They were playing a defensive looking 4-4-1-1, so I went control again and "look for overlap" as well as "be more expressive" to try unlock their defensive mentality. 2-0 up inside four minutes and scored 3 more goals throughout a very easy match. Top of the League 

 

Note - I've changed the DLFa to a DLFs so he is more involved in the build up. I also changed the APMs (left, Coutinho) to an IFs.

[glenn28]

Installing all the graphics of the game then get stuck into the game turning off windows 1 & gonna re train Milner as a left back 

[Staf9]

Just getting my save set up. 

 

Woodburn will be the future fowler

[jakem016]

18 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

Well, just to reiterate - I play (training the team in) balanced and flexible to begin with, and then I switch mentality given each match situation. You may be right though because counter seems to be weak any time I've used it in the League so far, and I usually switch back to balanced or control.

This seems like a good idea.  Do you train 3 separate formations or do you just do the 4-2-3-1?  I've had some success playing on the counter in the last couple years and I've found that having too many players in the am/st strata makes it difficult to play a counter system.  If you haven't seen it, Cleon did a great thread on the art of counter attacking last year and I'm pretty sure it's still somewhat active.  In 16 and my limited time playing 17, I've scored a lot of goals on the counter.  This is especially true towards the end of the game when teams are surging forward for a goal.  Anyway, I only say this because your overall strategy seems to be working very well, but if counter isn't working well in a 4-2-3-1, then it might be a good idea to create an alternate 4-4-1-1 formation - even if you just train it as standard/flexible - to have a little more flexibility.  

[Staf9]

Finally ready to hit continue!

 

3 tactics set up, control, attack & counter. Little bit of a staff re shuffle and massive player shortlist done

[..Valhalla..]

@jakem016 - I have 3 separate tactics fully trained. 4-4-1-1 Asymmetrical ST (CL) , 4-2-3-1 wide, and a standard 4-4-1-1. I haven't used the others yet because the 4-2-3-1 wide is going so well, and I'm not sure if the others are as well balanced. Although we did lose the Merseyside Derby 2-1 last night.

 

Speaking of losses; we have lost 3 league games now (Spurs 2-1, Sunderland 1-0, Everton 2-1), all away from home. Right from the kick off my team have been woeful and I "knew" I was going to lose by the first couple of highlights and the ratings across the board of sub-6.5, I just don't know how to change the performance when they start so badly.

On the plus side we beat Man City 3-1 and Arsenal 2-1 back to back immediately after the Everton match so its not a calamity. Still in the top 4, and all I want is to finish in the Champions League places (otherwise Coutinho is wanting to leave). Chelsea up next at Anfield. And speaking of the other tactics, could someone please run the rule over these other 2 and point out the glaring errors I am not seeing?...  

4-4-1-1 Asymmetrical ST (CL):

              DLF-s  

                           SS-a

DW-s . CM-s . BWM-d . WM-a

     FB-a . CD-d . CD-d . FB-s

                    GK-d

 

4-4-1-1:

                    DLF-s

                      T-a

W-a . BWM-d . BBM-s . WM-s

    FB-s . CD-d . CD-d . FB-a

                    GK-d

 

Just thrashed Chelsea 5-1 at Anfield. Willian opened the scoring with a 25-yard free kick, but we returned fire immediately and dominated the match. 4-2-3-1 balanced, flexible, only added low crosses and exploit the left flank (their RB Fágner seemed to be the only genuine weak player on the team). Stunning.

And then we lose 3-0 away to managerless Swansea who are the worst team in the league. From about 10 minutes in I KNEW we were losing. No tactical changes made any difference. Players all rated 6.2 and 6.3. Feel sick.

[cezar.sl]

Looks like some players got changed a little.

Milner, Lallana, Can and Lucas at least.

[..Valhalla..]

Well as I feared my game fell apart. Almost Christmas time, big run of game approaching (Leicester, Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs) and I kid you not all my best players were injured in the run-up. That squad screen where you "show contract" and can list them by squad status; the top 8 were all injured for between 4 weeks and 7 months.

Sakho, Henderson, Mané, Can, Firmino, Coutino, Sturridge, Origi. All of them ruled out.

Anyway I battled on a while but the players I had left clearly couldn't be arsed and so my own enthusiasm quickly waned. I holidayed a few matches here and there, made arbitrary changes in-game, somehow still qualified for the Euro Cup.

In May the board offered me a new contract but they are insane. I'm literally the worst manager Liverpool ever had. I rejected the contract out of love for the club and they signed Luis Enriqué instead. Probably for the best.

[ryan_wxm11]

Decided to start with Liverpool for the first save as I usually do.

Due to the summer transfers, there is little needed in terms of players. Lovren decided that he wanted to leave so he was sold to Tottenham for 23m. This was followed by Lallana handing in a transfer request but still not sold yet. Both players I am happy to lose as Lovren isn't the best and Lallana is too slow for the game IMO. Replaced Lovren with Brooks from Hoffenheim as well as signing Gaya from Valencia as neither Moreno or Milner are good enough. That being said Moreno is always better on FM than real life.

Main thing was to improve the coaching and scouts as they seem to be lacking. 

Formation to start is 4-1-2-2-1

                                            F9 (S) - Firmino 

AP (S) - Coutinho                                                     W (A) -Mane                      

                           BBM (S) - Can      AP(A) - Wijnaldum 

                                            DM(D) - Hendo

FB(S) - Gaya     DCB(D) - Sakho         DCB(D) - Matip    FB(S) - Clyne

Focused heavily on match tactics in preseason as well as playing a lot of friendlies to help the team get a better understanding of the tactics.

First game of the season was a 1-1 away draw to Leicester. We had 27 shots as well as 66% possession so should really have won the game. Firmino & Wijnaldum were taking too many shots from outside the box so this was something to work on next game. Next was a home game against Swansea which we won easily 5-0. Again with 65% possession and 25 shots. Sense I may dominate games this year but might struggle to score as according to the 'detailed stats', conversion rate is 32%. 

[Old Scouser Tommy]

11 minutes ago, ryan_wxm11 said:

Decided to start with Liverpool for the first save as I usually do.

Due to the summer transfers, there is little needed in terms of players. Lovren decided that he wanted to leave so he was sold to Tottenham for 23m. This was followed by Lallana handing in a transfer request but still not sold yet. Both players I am happy to lose as Lovren isn't the best and Lallana is too slow for the game IMO. Replaced Lovren with Brooks from Hoffenheim as well as signing Gaya from Valencia as neither Moreno or Milner are good enough. That being said Moreno is always better on FM than real life.

Main thing was to improve the coaching and scouts as they seem to be lacking. 

Formation to start is 4-1-2-2-1

                                            F9 (S) - Firmino 

AP (S) - Coutinho                                                     W (A) -Mane                      

                           BBM (S) - Can      AP(A) - Wijnaldum 

                                            DM(D) - Hendo

FB(S) - Gaya     DCB(D) - Sakho         DCB(D) - Matip    FB(S) - Clyne

Focused heavily on match tactics in preseason as well as playing a lot of friendlies to help the team get a better understanding of the tactics.

First game of the season was a 1-1 away draw to Leicester. We had 27 shots as well as 66% possession so should really have won the game. Firmino & Wijnaldum were taking too many shots from outside the box so this was something to work on next game. Next was a home game against Swansea which we won easily 5-0. Again with 65% possession and 25 shots. Sense I may dominate games this year but might struggle to score as according to the 'detailed stats', conversion rate is 32%. 

I would change your left fullbacks mentality to attack maybe so he will occupy the space left by Coutinho as he drifts inside. That might give you a bit more going forward.

[Old Scouser Tommy]

That'll do I suppose!

[ryan_wxm11]

Have been experiment with that. Gaya has the 'Get forward whenever possible' trait so provides width. Think at home I will use him with the attack mentality. 

[Old Scouser Tommy]

4 minutes ago, ryan_wxm11 said:

Have been experiment with that. Gaya has the 'Get forward whenever possible' trait so provides width. Think at home I will use him with the attack mentality. 

I went with Rodriguez and he's been brilliant contributing 13 goals and 8 assists in 29 games. I switch between 2 systems 1 where i have inverted wingbacks and 1 where I use them as complete wingbacks. I have Rodriguez taking pens and freekicks though so that's helped his goal tally.

 

[ryan_wxm11]

11 minutes ago, Old Scouser Tommy said:

I went with Rodriguez and he's been brilliant contributing 13 goals and 8 assists in 29 games. I switch between 2 systems 1 where i have inverted wingbacks and 1 where I use them as complete wingbacks. I have Rodriguez taking pens and freekicks though so that's helped his goal tally.

 

Fair play, I was looking at Rodriguez but opted for Gaya instead. Finishing seems to Firmino's issue for me at the moment, so improving that is going to be my main aim going forward. 

[Staf9]

cant seem to post properlyOn ‎02‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:20, ..Valhalla.. said:

Can't remember which commentator said it, I just remember hearing them say something like (I'll paraphrase) "a box of 4 holding player that gives freedom to the rest of the team..." and as I'm sure a lot of us do, I started building an FM tactic in my head.

As said though, it worked beautifully with BvB but was hopeless with Liverpool. My new system is a 5-3-1-1 with attacking WB's making up the back five, so I have 3 midfielders like you @Staf9 (APMs, DLPdf and B2Bs) plus a central AMa (Lallana or Coutinho) and a CFs (Origi).

 

God if I could just have one succesful Liverpool save I could die happy. The BvB League win was my first ever top division title since I started playing FM2005

you just need to persist with it. it will happen!!

 

I'm looking at other little things like the style of play, sometimes it can counter what you are trying to achieve with your formation and player roles. And the team instructions.

[Staf9]

for some weird reason the page would only allow posts as replies.

 

anyway. done 3-4 starts to test the waters to see who can be sold and for what amounts. looking at it I think i'll be starting a save with the first window closed. only players I've sold easily is Stewart, Ilori, Lucas and Lovern. while the first 3 don't need replacing I found it  tough to replace lovern as I want a top quality CB to come straight in. Arsenal keep beating me to Stefan De Vrij and Mussachio goes to City. and Tah and Christensen are not available until after the first season. Even with getting 32m from Spurs for lovern its not worth it.

Don't need much in Season 1 for the midfield & forward line.

[TheJanitor]

7 minutes ago, Staf9 said:

for some weird reason the page would only allow posts as replies.

 

anyway. done 3-4 starts to test the waters to see who can be sold and for what amounts. looking at it I think i'll be starting a save with the first window closed. only players I've sold easily is Stewart, Ilori, Lucas and Lovern. while the first 3 don't need replacing I found it  tough to replace lovern as I want a top quality CB to come straight in. Arsenal keep beating me to Stefan De Vrij and Mussachio goes to City. and Tah and Christensen are not available until after the first season. Even with getting 32m from Spurs for lovern its not worth it.

Don't need much in Season 1 for the midfield & forward line.

Look at Fabian Schar from Hoffenheim. Doesn't have Tah class but is a cheap alternative.

[oviava]

Out of all the 'top' tier defenders only one I managed to get is Rugani. Donnaruma is actually quite cheap to get and should probably be your first buy. I got insanely good offers for Sturridge from Tottenham and Lovren from PSG, didn't really want to sell Lovren but the offer was way too good to turn down. Bought Thiago Maia - would be dumb not to buy him, cheap and insane stats. Also, Grujic is actually VERY VERY good, not just as backup, he develops fast and is a very good all around midfielder. Even with his **** mental stats, Matip proved to be quite consistent and a very good defender.

Targets to aim for are Yarmolenko & Laporte ( bilbao CD ), I couldn't sign them until I qualifed for CL in the second season.

[MH2k]

Alright lads! (and girls)

Been a while, popping back to see how everyone's getting on. Will post where I'm upto when home from work.

[..Valhalla..]

3 hours ago, Staf9 said:

you just need to persist with it. it will happen!!

 

I'm looking at other little things like the style of play, sometimes it can counter what you are trying to achieve with your formation and player roles. And the team instructions.

 

I've been trying for over a decade and it's never happened. The best I can do with Liverpool is get to December or so and then it all falls apart. I've had good saves elsewhere but never once with Liverpool, and given I support them it's even more annoying.

[Lucascariocaj]

Excellent choice to purchase Jorge, I am a Brazilian boy, twisting for Flamengo Jorge team in real life, he and an extremely good player!

[Old Scouser Tommy]

I didn't really go into the season thinking about winning it. My first season always seems to be me messing round with stuff, systems and that. But here we are with 10 games to go and 10 points clear with a game in hand.

[Staf9]

17 hours ago, TheJanitor said:

Look at Fabian Schar from Hoffenheim. Doesn't have Tah class but is a cheap alternative.

Schar has qualities but doesn't have the pace/accel that I'm looking for

[Staf9]

9 hours ago, Old Scouser Tommy said:

I didn't really go into the season thinking about winning it. My first season always seems to be me messing round with stuff, systems and that. But here we are with 10 games to go and 10 points clear with a game in hand.

great start. hopefully you stay where you are and so do Everton!!

[glenn28]

Haven't played much but pre season was up & down 1st 4 games 3 wins & a draw playing Firmino as the false 9 doing well so far draw with united 0-0 but needed extra time to beat Blackpool using the 4-3-3 close to what Klopp uses IRL 

[ryan_wxm11]

4 hours ago, glenn28 said:

Haven't played much but pre season was up & down 1st 4 games 3 wins & a draw playing Firmino as the false 9 doing well so far draw with united 0-0 but needed extra time to beat Blackpool using the 4-3-3 close to what Klopp uses IRL 

Firmino as F9 seems to be the way to go with him. Might drop him back a little bit soon to play Origi however.

[Nazdroid3000]

I'm using the TI of Low Crosses this year and it seems to be doing well with me. Hope this could help anyone who's struggling

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 1 November 2016 at 19:11, yonko said:

And I'll be curious to see what your approach would be in a save with them in therms of tactics. The team is loaded with attacking players which gives a lot of possibilities.

I'm actually in Chile right now and yet to see enough full games to make a real judgement on how I define Klopp's tactical approach. I'm very interested to continue watching as I think I would define the end goal of 'heavy metal' football as a Very Fluid / Attack combination, balanced with the strong defensive structure of a 4-1-4-1.

4-1-4-1 would allow for a very strong, compact pressing shape and would recreate the current front 5 who are blowing the league apart.

At this very moment, I'm not sure they're quite there. I'd say maybe a 4-1-4-1 with a combination of Fluid and Attack which (depending on responsibilities) would split the team into two units of '4-1' - attack and defence. You'd lose some compactness with the pressing but gain some stability in defence and allow the attackers to attack & defenders to defend a bit more.

Exciting time for Liverpool as I think there's more improvements to come.

 

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I'm actually in Chile right now and yet to see enough full games to make a real judgement on how I define Klopp's tactical approach. I'm very interested to continue watching as I think I would define the end goal of 'heavy metal' football as a Very Fluid / Attack combination, balanced with the strong defensive structure of a 4-1-4-1.

4-1-4-1 would allow for a very strong, compact pressing shape and would recreate the current front 5 who are blowing the league apart.

At this very moment, I'm not sure they're quite there. I'd say maybe a 4-1-4-1 with a combination of Fluid and Attack which (depending on responsibilities) would split the team into two units of '4-1' - attack and defence. You'd lose some compactness with the pressing but gain some stability in defence and allow the attackers to attack & defenders to defend a bit more.

Exciting time for Liverpool as I think there's more improvements to come.

 

I don't have much time to play either, unfortunately. What player roles are you thinking about? I'm thinking something along this:

2x FB-A

2x CD-D

DLP-D

WM-A, CM-A, B2B, WP-A

CF-S

I'm sticking to Fluid for now and I'm actually using 4-1-2-3 Wide for now. But I'm still only in pre-season and progressing very slow. 

[jack0923]

On 07/11/2016 at 23:05, Old Scouser Tommy said:

I didn't really go into the season thinking about winning it. My first season always seems to be me messing round with stuff, systems and that. But here we are with 10 games to go and 10 points clear with a game in hand.

Would love to try your tactic out mate? 

[ckny]

My tactical development at Liverpool this season:

Been playing FM since it's "first" release in 2005.  Still a n00b.  Things are going well though, after rocky start to season where I tried four different tactics to no avail, until finally landing on one that can lead this club to glory. 

In the back of mind, I was planning on using this FM2017 to find the right tactic then start a fresh a new game when I purchase the full game.  However, it's a bit like cheating though ain't it, and I ain't doing so bad so I guess I'm going to stick this save game file out. 

Let me go through the tactical ideas in my head with some screenshots:

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This is a tactic that worked well for me in the previous installment of the game.  I basically designed by looking at football manager 2013 and trying to work out how to give a team total creative freedom in a tactic.  I only played half a season in FM016 with this but was top of the league by then, just by a few points.  This is the tactic I bet for most of pre-season, to no avail, it didn’t work very well in real matches either.  In way I’m glad it didn’t work, kind of an annoying tactic.

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I believe this might have been the tactic earned me a 4-1 victory over Man City.  Other than that it wasn’t very good, due to the fact I was using a lot specialist roles in a very fluid formation.

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This is basically the same tactic but with generic roles instead.  Did alright, nothing spectacular.  Took the general advice of having the CMs dropped to the DM position like people recommend on this forum for defensive reasons.

screenshot windows

This is when things started to get interesting.  This is basically Wffan Barcelona tactic modified for my Liverpool side.  No stay on feet, false nine instead, closing down higher.  I found this tactic worked really, giving really high possession and even chances to my side, apart from one thing, no one would score.  Most of my games at the start of the season were just 1-0, 1-1, 0-1. I tried removing creative freedom to see if that would help but to no avail.

 

 

Now this is the tactic that is giving me success and goals, moving up third in the league after a terrible start to the season full of tactical confusion.

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This is a tactic I used in FM2015 and it worked wonders.  In FM2016 it did not work at all.  Now FM2017 it looks to be working again.  Thanks SI.

 

Additional factors:  Every player it set to pass it shorter apart from the CD’s which are blocked for this setting. All the wide players except the Winger are set to play narrower, in conjunction with the team shout.  Interesting to note: We play down both flanks on a narrow.   In FM2015, I also had this as my back up:

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Not sure if this working for FM2017, but it’s alright, the first attacking tactic seems to be doing alright.   Check out my recent league results (with new tactic):

Bare in my mind, I only began to train with this tactic with the draw with Tottenham.

 

It doesn’t keep possession as well as it did in FM2015, but never mind.  Have to get that removed with the board.  The only signing I made was Cesc Fabregas.  Looking to bring in some youngster next time to bleed into the team.

Here’s the league table in my save game.  All this fun just from a demo.

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[Old Scouser Tommy]

35 minutes ago, ckny said:

My tactical development at Liverpool this season:

 

Been playing FM since it's "first" release in 2005.  Still a n00b.  Things are going well though, after rocky start to season where I tried four different tactics to no avail, until finally landing on one that can lead this club to glory. 

 

In the back of mind, I was planning on using this FM2017 to find the right tactic then start a fresh a new game when I purchase the full game.  However, it's a bit like cheating though ain't it, and I ain't doing so bad so I guess I'm going to stick this save game file out. 

 

Let me go through the tactical ideas in my head with some screenshots:

 

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This is a tactic that worked well for me in the previous installment of the game.  I basically designed by looking at football manager 2013 and trying to work out how to give a team total creative freedom in a tactic.  I only played half a season in FM016 with this but was top of the league by then, just by a few points.  This is the tactic I bet for most of pre-season, to no avail, it didn’t work very well in real matches either.  In way I’m glad it didn’t work, kind of an annoying tactic.

 

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I believe this might have been the tactic earned me a 4-1 victory over Man City.  Other than that it wasn’t very good, due to the fact I was using a lot specialist roles in a very fluid formation.

 

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This is basically the same tactic but with generic roles instead.  Did alright, nothing spectacular.  Took the general advice of having the CMs dropped to the DM position like people recommend on this forum for defensive reasons.

 

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This is when things started to get interesting.  This is basically Wffan Barcelona tactic modified for my Liverpool side.  No stay on feet, false nine instead, closing down higher.  I found this tactic worked really, giving really high possession and even chances to my side, apart from one thing, no one would score.  Most of my games at the start of the season were just 1-0, 1-1, 0-1. I tried removing creative freedom to see if that would help but to no avail.

 

 

 

Now this is the tactic that is giving me success and goals, moving up third in the league after a terrible start to the season full of tactical confusion.

 

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This is a tactic I used in FM2015 and it worked wonders.  In FM2016 it did not work at all.  Now FM2017 it looks to be working again.  Thanks SI.

 

 

Additional factors:  Every player it set to pass it shorter apart from the CD’s which are blocked for this setting. All the wide players except the Winger are set to play narrower, in conjunction with the team shout.  Interesting to note: We play down both flanks on a narrow.   In FM2015, I also had this as my back up:

 

free photo hosting

 

Not sure if this working for FM2017, but it’s alright, the first attacking tactic seems to be doing alright.   Check out my recent league results (with new tactic):

 

Bare in my mind, I only began to train with this tactic with the draw with Tottenham.

 

 

It doesn’t keep possession as well as it did in FM2015, but never mind.  Have to get that removed with the board.  The only signing I made was Cesc Fabregas.  Looking to bring in some youngster next time to bleed into the team.

 

Here’s the league table in my save game.  All this fun just from a demo.

 

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You do have a lot of attacking duties  as well as the attacking mentality. It seems too much and I would personally drop your wide players to support duties. They will still be in attacking positions but as well your attacking full backs will occupy the spaces they leave. That's just me personally though. Are you getting exposed at the back much?

[ckny]

Old scouser tommy:  Thanks for the advice, I know it's early days yet with my latest tactic (IFA & WA) but I feel like I can beat anyone and possibly win the league next season with the right signings and management.  Whatever I do, I always get hit at the back, at the moment it's Kevin Keegan antics, just trying to outscore the opposition.  I haven't been able to play the same side over and over again with all the whinging and fixtures congestion.  This tactic is based on the old Tactical Theorems and framework, accept it's nothing like Arsene or Klopp, it's just I struggle with tactics and look for inspiration wherever I can get it.  

I'm interested to see if Ozil + 10 does a tactic based on Klopp.

[Old Scouser Tommy]

4 minutes ago, ckny said:

Old scouser tommy:  Thanks for the advice, I know it's early days yet with my latest tactic (IFA & WA) but I feel like I can beat anyone and possibly win the league next season with the right signings and management.  Whatever I do, I always get hit at the back, at the moment it's Kevin Keegan antics, just trying to outscore the opposition.  I haven't been able to play the same side over and over again with all the whinging and fixtures congestion.  This tactic is based on the old Tactical Theorems and framework, accept it's nothing like Arsene or Klopp, it's just I struggle with tactics and look for inspiration wherever I can get it.  

I'm interested to see if Ozil + 10 does a tactic based on Klopp.

That's the beauty of building your own system, as you know. Sometimes things work and other times they don't. I'm not sure it's possible to get exactly how Liverpool play under Klopp because the front 3 and non-holding midfield players are so fluid. I wasn't expecting to win the league in my first season but I did, and the league cup too. But it took a few months to get the system working properly.

[carlowsaint19]

Currently using 2 formations with 3 wins in first four games (should mention that this is my third save with Liverpool so have learned some lessons). Curently using 2 slightly off piste tactics

4-3-2-1 (with Coutinho playing to the left centre and Firmino more to the right).

Karius GK - Def

Clyne (FB/S) Matip (CD/D) Sakho (CD/D) Moreno (FB/A)

Milner (CM/S) Can (BWM/D) Hendo (BtB)

Mane (RW/A) Coutinho (CAP/A)

Firmino (F9) or Origi as (CF/S)

 

Or

Karius GK - Def

Clyne (FB/S) Matip (CD/D) Sakho (CD/D) Moreno (FB/A)

                         Can (DLP/D)

Mane (Winger/A)                  Hendo (BTB/S)

                             Firmino (AM/S)                   Coutinho (AP/S)

                                 Origi (CF/A)

 

The first tactic seems to allow for some great phases of play which regularly show in the commentary as superb flowing move etc but the second tactic seems more effective (less possession and shots but more goals, but only a small sample size thus far). Both play with work ball into box, keep possession and closing down to more. Control and Fluid is also the norm.

Anyone offer any thoughts on the above? First FM I have bought in a few years so any help is appreciated.

Spent quite a bit of money on young players, will post transfers later.

[waynehead]

How well does Firmino as a F9? does he get goal and assists?

[ashlfcowen]

First season: completed.

And what a fascinating season it was. The league literally went to the death between myself and Spurs. I was 1 point clear with 1 game left. I had Leicester away which was never going to be easy. I eventually won 1-2, with Origi scoring two. Spurs drew their final game 1-1 which meant I ended up with 87 points having won 27, drawn 6 and losing 5. I scored 83 but conceded a worrying 36. Work to be done there.

Sadio Mané was my stand out performer. Contributing with 14 assists and 13 goals in 35 appearances. 

Our mate Divock scored an impressive 34 goals in 39 appearances as well. 

Klavan played his way in to the team for next year as well, averaging an impressive 7.4 over 36 games.

We also win the FA Cup, winning 5-2 v Swindon. They beat Arsenal 3-0 in the Semi Final at Wembley. Ballers!

Sturridge, Mignolet, Karius, Milner, Ings & Sakho have all been deemed surplus to requirements - they will either leave the club permanently or on loan. Big wages, not enough playing time.

A few potential targets to strengthen the team as I have the Champions League to concentrate on, however the spine of the team is looking strong.

Focus is now on improving the scouting network & facilities.  

[ashlfcowen]

Oh. So Donnarumma, at the age of 18 years young wants a new 5 year contract worth £62m (£225k a week) and a £7M signing on fee. Okay...

[cezar.sl]

17 hours ago, ashlfcowen said:

Oh. So Donnarumma, at the age of 18 years young wants a new 5 year contract worth £62m (£225k a week) and a £7M signing on fee. Okay...

I tried to buy Ruganni from Juventus, wanted an 10m + a year (he was on 1.8) and another 20m in sign-on and agent fees.

 

 

[carlowsaint19]

Any thoughts on Milner, appears to be a decent replacement for a number of positions but hsn't done very much when I've started him. Thinking of selling in Jan?

[carlowsaint19]

Also, just something a little strange (and possibly a tiny bug), but the POTY favourite in my save for the league was Luan, a new signing made by Spurs who was 1/5 on. All the league stars were at best 8/1 and more.